French Consumer Fraud Group Investigating Apple for 'Alleged Deception' and 'Planned Obsolescence'

[deferredAnon]

Where’s your proof devices are slower?

Apple throttles our iPhone 6 at below 80%. For above 80% battery, Facebook takes like three seconds to open, Mail app takes 1.5 seconds to open, but all these times are doubled when it gets throttled. I'm speaking of opening them for the first time. Also, the proof is the app 'CPU DasherX'.

 

[deanthedev]

It has to do with Apple agreeing that Geekbench can measure performance and be used to compare. Sorry you lost your argument.

What apps do you develop so I can avoid those?

No, you simply proved again you don’t understand the issue. Apple is using Geekbench to measure the performance of a “normally functioning system” to show their updates to the kernel don’t slow the system.

Please show me where Apple has used Geekbench in any official statements regarding throttling due to faulty batteries.

 

[UL2RA]

Where’s the proof? Can you show me some evidence? What are your conclusions based on?

Nearly 30 lawsuits are in effect because people are making stuff up, right? Apple offering cheap battery replacement to make up for the fact that they were hiding this. I don't know what else you need, but if you want to keep those blinders on, be my guest.

No, you simply proved again you don’t understand the issue. Apple is using Geekbench to measure the performance of a “normally functioning system” to show their updates to the kernel don’t slow the system.

Please show me where Apple has used Geekbench in any official statements regarding throttling due to faulty batteries.

You're simply choosing to ignore everything that's happening and you're not going to convince anyone that your delusion is somehow the truth.

 

[jerryk]

Much ado about nothing. Apple seems to be getting kicked in the teeth for trying to do something for user. They should just put a on/off switch (off by default) on the feature and call it a day.

 

[deferredAnon]

Nearly 30 lawsuits are in effect because people are making stuff up. Apple offering cheap battery replacement to make up for the fact that they were hiding this. I don't know what else you need, but if you want to keep those blinders on, be my guest.

Everything is fake news because I don't like it!

 

[Act3]

No, you simply proved again you don’t understand the issue. Apple is using Geekbench to measure the performance of a “normally functioning system” to show their updates to the kernel don’t slow the system.

Please show me where Apple has used Geekbench in any official statements regarding throttling due to faulty batteries.

They haven't but anyone can use the geekbench app to benchmark (compare) how their device is performing on a new battery vs an older battery and clearly see the difference. It's not rocket science. Seems like you have a misunderstanding on what the term benchmark means.

How many more users do you need to post their before and after Geekbench or CPUDasher results to believe the throttling is real?

 

[UL2RA]

Apple throttles our iPhone 6 at below 80%. For above 80% battery, Facebook takes like three seconds to open, Mail app takes 1.5 seconds to open, but all these times are doubled when it gets throttled. I'm speaking of opening them for the first time. Also, the proof is the app 'CPU DasherX'.

I mean the fact that Apple has openly admitted to this should be proof enough.

 

[deferredAnon]

Much ado about nothing. Apple seems to be getting kicked in the teeth for trying to do something for user. They should just put a on/off switch (off by default) on the feature and call it a day.

No, this is now a 'feature'. There will never be an option unless it is done through lawsuits. Thank god for the French.

 

[Royksöpp]

This is getting good.

 

[Ladybug]

You know when you start your car and a CHECK ENGINE light comes on that your car needs servicing right? Apple could have used a SERVICE BATTERY pop up and prevented this fallout. Sneaking code in to slow someone's phone down after the sale is shady. Apple gets no sympathy from me. According to some here the average user isn't intelligent enough to understand a SERVICE BATTERY prompt so Apple gets a pass instead.

 

[Altis]

Granted, illustrator is probably a bad example as it hasn’t changed much over the years, but I think you get my point.

It's actually a good example. How much does iOS really change in terms of needing more resources?

Why would apps that don't actually use much resources at all become slow and bogged down?

Apple benefits when people assume their devices should get slow just because the software version number rolls over. Not only is it not necessarily (though it could be), but some things could even be quicker and more lean.

 

[deferredAnon]

You know when you start your car and a CHECK ENGINE light comes on that your car needs servicing right? Apple could have used a SERVICE BATTERY pop up and prevented this fallout. Sneaking code in to slow someone's phone down after the sale is shady. Apple gets no sympathy from me. According to some here the average user isn't intelligent enough to understand a SERVICE BATTERY prompt so Apple gets a pass instead.

Maybe Apple thinks we are all children who are 'addicted' to iPhones and don't understand services notifications. At least, that's what some investors believe.

 

[deanthedev]

They haven't but one can use the geekbench app to benchmark how there device is performing on a new battery vs an older battery and clearly see the difference. It's not rocket science.

Apparently it is rocket science since you don’t get it. Geekbench will trigger throttling right away because it’s demanding 100% from the processor. An App that doesn’t require full power from the processor (most normal Apps) wouldn’t get throttled and will run normally.

I’ve suggested this in numerous threads already, but NOBODY has provided me any proof yet. I have several old iPhones which are still functioning and run Geekbench at full speed, so I can’t do any throttling tests. But there appear to be several here who claim all their Apps slow down. So let’s see some videos of your iPhone before and after a battery change to show the performance difference. Surely at least ONE of you can provide such basic evidence.

This is, after all, how good science is done. You perform controlled tests under specific conditions (like bad battery) and then conduct those exact same tests again (with a new battery) to see what changed.

I don’t see anyone here following the scientific method.
[doublepost=1515460194][/doublepost]

Nearly 30 lawsuits are in effect because people are making stuff up, right? Apple offering cheap battery replacement to make up for the fact that they were hiding this. I don't know what else you need, but if you want to keep those blinders on, be my guest.

Wait, so filed lawsuits are considered scientific evidence now? I didn’t know, thanks for the tip.
[doublepost=1515460347][/doublepost]

I mean the fact that Apple has openly admitted to this should be proof enough.

Apple has only admitted that under certain circumstances your iPhone might be slower. Nowhere have they categorically stated your iPhone will always be slower at everything.

 

[UL2RA]

Apparently it is rocket science since you don’t get it. Geekbench will trigger throttling right away because it’s demanding 100% from the processor. An App that doesn’t require full power from the processor (most normal Apps) wouldn’t get throttled and will run normally.

I’ve suggested this in numerous threads already, but NOBODY has provided me any proof yet. I have several old iPhones which are still functioning and run Geekbench at full speed, so I can’t do any throttling tests. But there appear to be several here who claim all their Apps slow down. So let’s see some videos of your iPhone before and after a battery change to show the performance difference. Surely at least ONE of you can provide such basic evidence.

This is, after all, how good science is done. You perform controlled tests under specific conditions (like bad battery) and then conduct those exact same tests again (with a new battery) to see what changed.

I don’t see anyone here following the scientific method.
[doublepost=1515460194][/doublepost]

Wait, so filed lawsuits are considered scientific evidence now? I didn’t know, thanks for the tip.

You're the only person in this thread topic that doesn't get it. The throttling has been made aware and Apple is offering cheap replacement batteries and apologizing for it. There's nothing to debate. I'm not sure what angle you're coming from, but it's beyond anyone's understanding in here.

Apple has only admitted that under certain circumstances your iPhone might be slower. Nowhere have they categorically stated your iPhone will always be slower at everything.

Yes, we all know what throttling means, thank you.

 

[Act3]

Apparently it is rocket science since you don’t get it. Geekbench will trigger throttling right away because it’s demanding 100% from the processor. An App that doesn’t require full power from the processor (most normal Apps) wouldn’t get throttled and will run normally.

I’ve suggested this in numerous threads already, but NOBODY has provided me any proof yet. I have several old iPhones which are still functioning and run Geekbench at full speed, so I can’t do any throttling tests. But there appear to be several here who claim all their Apps slow down. So let’s see some videos of your iPhone before and after a battery change to show the performance difference. Surely at least ONE of you can provide such basic evidence.

This is, after all, how good science is done. You perform controlled tests under specific conditions (like bad battery) and then conduct those exact same tests again (with a new battery) to see what changed.

I don’t see anyone here following the scientific method.
[doublepost=1515460194][/doublepost]

Wait, so filed lawsuits are considered scientific evidence now? I didn’t know, thanks for the tip.

Lol, your post makes me laugh. Apple says phones are throttled based on battery health, people post benchmarks before and after battery replacement, yet you don't believe it. Smells like a trolling attempt to me.

So what if geekbench is causing the throttling right away ... What if I am doing a CPU intensive task like processing video or photos? That could very well tax the processor and throttle it as well. Bottom line is performance isn't at what a consumer bought. Not sure why you are so right with that.

And how is it fair to a developer that makes an app that requires the processing power to run well? Likely to suffer poor reviews when their app runs crappy due to throttled CPU.

Is slowing down the processor when the processing power is needed the new technology of 2018?

Also CPUDasherX will show throttling all the time on batteries that are degraded/old enough.

 

[rjp1]

What you're missing is that these devices shouldn't be shutting down randomly with aged batteries. Somebody in iPhone hardware engineering drew a line in the sand regarding hardware/cpu/battery/power-management and got it wrong.

If it's a hardware issue that would mean replacing millions of devices. If it's a battery issue that would mean replacing millions of batteries. Instead they chose to make a change to iOS to hide the issue by slowing down devices.

When they were called out on this, they've doubled down on their bet. They started this battery replacement programme where users have to pay(!) to prevent the problem from appearing twnporaily by having their battery replaced.

This is the fallout.

Honestly, a recall of all these devices is what needs to happen. This shutting down at 40% never happened before the 6. There is a hardware flaw, and it is NOT the battery.

I had a relatively new 6S that started shutting down at 40% (sometimes higher, sometimes lower). I got turned away at the Apple Store, because the battery tested okay. The "genius" couldn't comprehend that it might not be the battery's fault (I realize now they were probably instructed to say this as part of the coverup). I ended up recording it with another phone shutting down and turning back on that night and went back. They replaced the device. The same issue happened on that new device in less than a week. Before I got around to taking it back in, the whole situation blew up and they introduced the throttling.

My experience: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...g-unexpected-shutdowns.2016595/#post-23955717

 

[McScooby]

I'm going to assume you're an intelligent man when I ask: when you bought the iPhone did or did you not know the parts were non user upgradable?


It's stuff like this that makes me upset.

First - the sly "(plus the $29)" is entitled. Seems like you want it for free, like many. I've never been entitled to the point where I feel that a company has to fix an issue I brought by wear and tear. I expect things to get old.

Second - people like to downplay things. Do you have experience with battery replacements on Apple devices? I have screen replacement experience. Things are small. Things can get lost. Also, this isn't your damn phone you're working with. It's someone else's. I'd be working carefully not to screw up.

Third - have yo ever worked retail? Any job with people? The amount of people I meet in college that never worked even part time is incredible. I wish I had daddy money... digressing, if you've had any type of job supporting yourself through your early twenties late teens you'll know people suck. People are demanding. Even if it ain't your fault they will make it seem like it is. That takes a toll. Of course you're gonna have Managers being a little more strict. They don't want to deal with a **** load of angry people. They show compassion and I'm certain a lot of people would take advantage. It's not the fault of the retail staff. Get over that.

Fourth - I will supporting Apple even more now. They care. As annoying as they are the people who complain care too. We've had many Android problems (security, hardware issues on some OEM's, etc) in the past and they don't get much traction because people don't care. This is a platform I want. One that changes and admits mistakes. Not risks life's with faulty hardware and takes information. There's just no true alternative.

This stuff irks me, where / when does the customer have a duty of service to the retail staff?
It's more & more these days like Apple's way or the Highway, in the quickest time, after queuing!
Recently I was treated like a nugget in an English apple store. iPhone was plugged in, passed all the tests incl their battery & told nothing they could do & be on my way, where was the 'oh I appreciate your concern we can replace the battery for x amount?' None of that, just told it was my imagination - beyond contempt of a customer if you ask me & when you've finished with the condescendence about parts being non-upgradable, remind me again why that is? That's right, it's because refuse to make them / hinder services to do so that way, remind me, what was that right to repair thing going on from a few years ago?

 

[Juicy Box]

The phones are DEFECTIVE. I had a PASSING BATTERY that was NOT AGED and my 6S would shut off. This whole thing is a coverup. It doesn’t matter how new your battery is or even if it’s charging and plugged into the wall, still throttled. It was done to fix the faulty CPU’s drawing from the battery. This is why they will lose.

I had a similar thing happen to my iPhone 6S Plus. According to the Apple Care Rep I talked to, there were many claims about shutdown issues, and not necessarily on old 6, but on the newer 6s.

What I find strange, is that it seems like no one is questioning Apple on saying that the batteries are degrading normally. It sounds like Apple had a design flaw in the 6 and 6s models and the "fix" that slowed down the phones was just a way of hiding the flaw.

I don't think Apple necessarily slowed down the iPhones so people would buy new ones, but maybe to cover up their design flaw.

 

[Royksöpp]

I don't think Apple necessarily slowed down the iPhones so people would buy new ones, but maybe to cover up their design flaw.

Nope, not at all. They slowed it down on purpose. While a design flaw is possible, it wouldn't be the reason for the slow downs.

 

[Juicy Box]

What you're missing is that these devices shouldn't be shutting down randomly with aged batteries.

Somebody else gets it. Great post!

Somebody in iPhone hardware engineering drew a line in the sand regarding hardware/cpu/battery/power-management and got it wrong.

This is what I believe has happened.

And Apple released an update to "Fix" the problem, which was basically to hide that there was a flaw in the design.
[doublepost=1515461327][/doublepost]

Nope, not at all. They slowed it down on purpose. While a design flaw is possible, it wouldn't be the reason for the slow downs.

I agree it was on purpose, I am just saying I don't necessarily believe it was done just to sell new phones. I think it was to hide flaws in the design of the iPhone 6 and 6s.

 

[stevegut78]

You mean like planned obsolescence as in the 2009 iMac I have in the office which is running os 10.13.2 FLAWLESSLY thanks to macOS High Sierra Patcher?

 

[kdarling]

Where’s your proof devices are slower?

Well, besides all the reports of slowness from users...

Apple themselves have said that with their throttling, “users may experience longer launch times for apps and other reductions in performance”... including scrolling, audio volume, etc.

Not likely that both users and Apple are lying.

The only part that’s still a question is how often the throttling is done. Some claim all the time after a certain battery age. Some say only under a certain battery charge. This is info that’s unclear, not whether it happens or not.

 

[C DM]

You mean like planned obsolescence as in the 2009 iMac I have in the office which is running os 10.13.2 FLAWLESSLY thanks to macOS High Sierra Patcher?

You know what they say, one man's flawless experience is another's crippled experience.

 

[617660]

You know when you start your car and a CHECK ENGINE light comes on that your car needs servicing right? Apple could have used a SERVICE BATTERY pop up and prevented this fallout. Sneaking code in to slow someone's phone down after the sale is shady. Apple gets no sympathy from me. According to some here the average user isn't intelligent enough to understand a SERVICE BATTERY prompt so Apple gets a pass instead.

Exactly.

They didn't want to use a service battery light because that would mean a measly $79 battery service revenue instead of a fat $1,000 iPhone X revenue.

 

[Royksöpp]

You mean like planned obsolescence as in the 2009 iMac I have in the office which is running os 10.13.2 FLAWLESSLY thanks to macOS High Sierra Patcher?

We're not talking about Macs buddy. We all know that they're good for many years. It's IOS devices that are getting screwed.