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From Steve Jobs' Biography: "I'm going to destroy Android"

polaris20 said:
You should learn to be less condescending when hiding behind a keyboard and mouse.

I know exactly what the difference is, and the OS is a rip-off of iOS. You'd have to be blind not to see that.
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It is by no means and never has been a rip-off.
 
KnightWRX said:
Oh come on, not this again. Android the OS is a rip-off of iOS ? Why are both so completely different then ?
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Oletros said:
And exactly what is a rip off?
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Mr Bigs said:
It is by no means and never has been a rip-off.
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Looking at plain Android and iOS, they look and operate very similarly to me. I've used the original Droid, Galaxy S, and Nexus S, and while the Touchwiz skin is probably most at fault, even the default "vanilla" Android felt like a copy in the way you navigate the phone, use the multitouch, keyboard, etc.

Just my opinion after using a few of these devices and supporting them. Like I said; I like vanilla Android. I just don't think it's particularly original.
 
polaris20 said:
Looking at plain Android and iOS, they look and operate very similarly to me. I've used the original Droid, Galaxy S, and Nexus S, and while the Touchwiz skin is probably most at fault, even the default "vanilla" Android felt like a copy in the way you navigate the phone, use the multitouch, keyboard, etc.
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Ah, you're mixing up the form factor and touch screen input with the actual OS and it's UI widgets. That explains it. So again, we have one guy saying the "Gestures" are ripped off. Except Apple owns patents on some of the gestures it came up with. Other gestures are free game as Apple "ripped them off" (I prefer "standing on the shoulders of giants myself) other multi-touch researchers of the last 2 decades.

You're basically saying Windows, Mac and Linux GUIs are all rip-offs of each other because you left click on icons to perform actions. That's just how mice work, that's not how the OS, it's framework and UI paradigms are.
 
polaris20 said:
Looking at plain Android and iOS, they look and operate very similarly to me. I've used the original Droid, Galaxy S, and Nexus S, and while the Touchwiz skin is probably most at fault, even the default "vanilla" Android felt like a copy in the way you navigate the phone, use the multitouch, keyboard, etc.

Just my opinion after using a few of these devices and supporting them. Like I said; I like vanilla Android. I just don't think it's particularly original.
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And, so is not a rip off, is only a touch phone.
 
KnightWRX said:
Ah, you're mixing up the form factor and touch screen input with the actual OS and it's UI widgets. That explains it. So again, we have one guy saying the "Gestures" are ripped off. Except Apple owns patents on some of the gestures it came up with. Other gestures are free game as Apple "ripped them off" (I prefer "standing on the shoulders of giants myself) other multi-touch researchers of the last 2 decades.

You're basically saying Windows, Mac and Linux GUIs are all rip-offs of each other because you left click on icons to perform actions. That's just how mice work, that's not how the OS, it's framework and UI paradigms are.
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Ah, I guess you have a point. There are only so many ways to "skin a cat", so to speak. However I do still feel (again, in my opinion) that Android, even vanilla, is far closer to iOS than say WebOS is/was, Meego, or WinPhone7. But yes, certain factors you can't really escape from.

I'll also say I appreciate your posts, Knight. You're one of the few here who can disagree/debate without coming across like a belligerent, snarky jerk. 😀

Oletros said:
And, so is not a rip off, is only a touch phone.
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Re-read what I've said. Android is a lot closer to iOS than other touch-based phones, IMO. I wouldn't, for example, say WinPhone7 is a rip-off, nor WebOS. Would it make you feel better if I said it was derivative?
 
polaris20 said:
Re-read what I've said. Android is a lot closer to iOS than other touch-based phones, IMO. I wouldn't, for example, say WinPhone7 is a rip-off, nor WebOS. Would it make you feel better if I said it was derivative?
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The problem is that is not derivative, iOS and Android developing started at the same time independently and there is not so many ways to navigate a touch screen, use a keyboard or have gestures. None of which where original in the iPhone
 
I'm surprised no one has brought up Symbian^3 and Symbian Anna which proves cherry picking with regards to some die-hard Apple fanatics.
Symbian%255E3-PR-2.0-menu-symbian-anna.jpg


Based on the posts in this thread, I could ascertain that Nokia is at fault for copying Apple. 🙄

As implied in the photo, there are only so many ways to navigate on a UI optimised for capacitive touchscreens.
 
Oletros said:
The problem is that is not derivative, iOS and Android developing started at the same time independently and there is not so many ways to navigate a touch screen, use a keyboard or have gestures. None of which where original in the iPhone
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I guess it's just a happy accident then. I've got my iPhone 4, a Droid with 2.3, a WinPhone7, and even the web developer's Nokia N900 sitting here, and only the Android and iPhone look like each other, despite all being touch-based phones.

Sure, there are only so many ways to do something, but it's remarkable how close some can be when they're "developed independently".
 
polaris20 said:
Ah, I guess you have a point. There are only so many ways to "skin a cat", so to speak. However I do still feel (again, in my opinion) that Android, even vanilla, is far closer to iOS than say WebOS is/was, Meego, or WinPhone7. But yes, certain factors you can't really escape from.
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I actually find Android to be far closer to webOS than to iOS. iOS is plain as day, heck it got wallpapers in version 4.0. Something that my dumbphones from 2002 had.

webOS is more akin to Android, using the homescreen for your open cards as Android uses its homescreen for information widgets, removing application icons to a tray/folder made specifically for that so as not to clutter the "desktop" with a bunch of icons like iOS does.

Aside from that, it's all gestures navigation unless you have a phone with hardware input mecanisms. My TouchPad has none so frankly it feels much like an "iPad" when navigating icons/controls/data, but seriously, no one could mistake webOS for iOS, just like you can't mistake Android for iOS.

polaris20 said:
I'll also say I appreciate your posts, Knight. You're one of the few here who can disagree/debate without coming across like a belligerent, snarky jerk. 😀
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Really ? People say I'm a jerk all the time. 😉
 
KnightWRX said:
I actually find Android to be far closer to webOS than to iOS. iOS is plain as day, heck it got wallpapers in version 4.0. Something that my dumbphones from 2002 had.

webOS is more akin to Android, using the homescreen for your open cards as Android uses its homescreen for information widgets, removing application icons to a tray/folder made specifically for that so as not to clutter the "desktop" with a bunch of icons like iOS does.

Aside from that, it's all gestures navigation unless you have a phone with hardware input mecanisms. My TouchPad has none so frankly it feels much like an "iPad" when navigating icons/controls/data, but seriously, no one could mistake webOS for iOS, just like you can't mistake Android for iOS.
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I don't think you'd really mistake Android for iOS, just that up until 2.3 there were a lot of the design cues that really just felt really similar to me. However that's up to 2.3; I've not had the opportunity to use 3.0/3.1 on tablets yet, nor have I had the chance to play with ICS, obviously.

Really ? People say I'm a jerk all the time. 😉
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I'm saying that not just based upon this thread but over the last several years. You're a fair dude. 🙂
 
polaris20 said:
I guess it's just a happy accident then. I've got my iPhone 4, a Droid with 2.3, a WinPhone7, and even the web developer's Nokia N900 sitting here, and only the Android and iPhone look like each other, despite all being touch-based phones.

Sure, there are only so many ways to do something, but it's remarkable how close some can be when they're "developed independently".
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But what's so close? You can't say that Android home screen is close to iOS, N900, iOS and Android app drawer are essentially the same.

What else is so close?
 
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Oletros said:
And, so is not a rip off, is only a touch phone.
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I'm pretty sure at the original iPhone launch, Steve Jobs said Apple patented the hell out of multi-touch gestures, for starters.

Granted, it's pretty hard to hold on to an idea like that before it gets ripped off, but that doesn't mean copying it isn't...well, kind of a rip-off.
 
Oletros said:
And? Jobs has said a lot of things, and some of them were proven wrong.
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Are you saying he lied about patenting multi-touch gestures?

It's not a matter of right and wrong, it's either a fact or not.

I'm not sure if you're trolling, but if you are, you're doing it wrong.

Trolling is supposed to be funny.
 
Drunken Master said:
Are you saying he lied about patenting multi-touch gestures?

It's not a matter of right and wrong, it's either a fact or not.

I'm not sure if you're trolling, but if you are, you're doing it wrong.

Trolling is supposed to be funny.
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No, he could have said that but filing a patent doesn't automatically grant it or doesn't means that it will not be invalidated.
 
Drunken Master said:
I'm pretty sure at the original iPhone launch, Steve Jobs said Apple patented the hell out of multi-touch gestures, for starters.
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Sure he did, but does it make it true ? Apple holds a patent on a few gestures, but guess what, flick scrolling and pinch to zoom aren't it. 😉

Android has yet to be shown to be using gestures from Apple's patented pool. Samsung was found to have used 1, and it wasn't really a gesture, but more akin to "bounce back on incomplete transition", and again only in their picture gallery. They since fixed it.

Apple holds much less patents than Steve was either led to believe or tried to make us believe they did.
 
Drunken Master said:
Are you saying he lied about patenting multi-touch gestures?

It's not a matter of right and wrong, it's either a fact or not.

I'm not sure if you're trolling, but if you are, you're doing it wrong.

Trolling is supposed to be funny.
Click to expand...


Well what Steve Jobs based that statement on was bad.
Steve Jobs understanding was dead wrong an since his statement was based on a very bad then the statement was wrong. They patent some things with it but did not patent multitouch. He was pretty far off in his understanding and then got angry based on that bad understanding.

Simple fact is Steve Jobs was a very sad bitter man.
 
antbikerjl said:
Oh wow, this just in... Interesting how Job's is trying to destroy Android, but then you see the reversal. Is it that now, Android is out to destroy Apple?

Oh how I love the irony in all this. Apple, pony up and get ready for the ride of your life. Your in for a real treat soon...

http://www.bgr.com/2011/11/04/motorola-wins-injunction-against-apple-in-germany/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/04/german-court-grants-injunction-against-apple-for-infringement-of/
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Whoa!
 
antbikerjl said:
Oh wow, this just in... Interesting how Job's is trying to destroy Android, but then you see the reversal. Is it that now, Android is out to destroy Apple?

Oh how I love the irony in all this. Apple, pony up and get ready for the ride of your life. Your in for a real treat soon...

http://www.bgr.com/2011/11/04/motorola-wins-injunction-against-apple-in-germany/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/04/german-court-grants-injunction-against-apple-for-infringement-of/
Click to expand...

Android manufacturers and Apple are filing patent lawsuits everywhere. Oh wait. It gets worse. According to the
L.A Times, Apple filed 10 lawsuits in six countries against Samsung, including three separate regions in the U.S.

Who else here thinks that the two companies are going to destroy themselves over these patent lawsuits? The same article says it can cost up to $8 million to litigate one of those cases.
 
antbikerjl said:
Oh wow, this just in... Interesting how Job's is trying to destroy Android, but then you see the reversal. Is it that now, Android is out to destroy Apple?

Oh how I love the irony in all this. Apple, pony up and get ready for the ride of your life. Your in for a real treat soon...

http://www.bgr.com/2011/11/04/motorola-wins-injunction-against-apple-in-germany/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/04/german-court-grants-injunction-against-apple-for-infringement-of/
Click to expand...

It's a meaningless victory:
http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/4/2...ent-injunction-against-apple-but-its-not-what

Apple is represented by two organizations in Germany: Apple Inc., the worldwide corporate parent, and Apple Germany, the local subsidiary that actually sells products to consumers. Motorola Mobility filed lawsuits against both organizations, and while Apple Germany is vigorously fighting its case, Apple's lawyers let the Apple Inc., lawsuit slide, resulting in this default judgement and injunction. But since Apple Inc., doesn't actually sell anything in Germany, it's a totally symbolic victory for Motorola — there aren't any products to ban.
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The original Android devices definitely weren't only blackberry looking. Truth be told, I'd go on a limb and say that Android still looks more like the concept UI did than iOS does.

http://www.osnews.com/story/25264

I'm surprised NOBODY brings this up.

By default, Android looks like this:
Android-gingerbread-home.png


(The google widget is optional, but the desktop wasn't meant to be filled to the brim with icons)
 
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