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G5 PowerBook 'a challenge'

On topic

Apple has to introduce the G5 into the powerbook line. Look how their sales suffered with no update in terms of cpu speed in less than 1 year. Now remember why the update took so long - moto being so slow to produce the higher chips in quantity. I should say I don't know this for fact but appears to be the most commonly accepted reason. If Moto is getting away from chips for computers and going to just chips for phones this will only get worse. Add on to that Apple is ordering chips from IBM - why should Moto supply Apple or worry about it?

Apple has to get the G5 in the powerbook. When is the magical question. I am hoping Apple learned a lot with this latest Moto boondoggle. They do need to update their chips more often than once every 7-10 months.
 
When the G5 eventually makes its way into the Powerbook line, does this mean the Powerbook will be a 64 bit notebook computer? And if so that would probably allow for more max memory, right?:D
 
Doing The Math...

Sorry Mod...my last post on this soapbox :)

What do you prefer...

$2000 per box based on 5% market share

OR (certainly not _exclusive or_ )

$129 per box based on 30% (or maybe more, gasp!) market share
 
moto out of options?

i don't know when the PBG5 will come out, though i hope its spring 2004.

i point i want to make is about motorola. after this current version of chips, the 1.25 & 1.33 G4 7457's, they have no where to go. there is no roadmap claiming that the 7457 (or some other variation) will push past the current lineup. so what will apple use. i thin they will "have" to make the G5's work in the next revision of PB's because there will be no more G4 options.

and with the 90nm G5 chips being tested in November, the possibility for them workingtheir way into PB by next spring seem evenmore likely.

what does everyone else think?

-dornball
 
When/if a G5 powerbook does come out, will it be in ALL the 15" powerbooks? What I mean is, will the low end machines have a G5 chip in them, or will they do something like only offer the G5 in the top of the line version of the 15" while keeping a G4 in the entry level model, at least for a little while?
 
Re: Doing The Math...

Originally posted by DonZorro
Sorry Mod...my last post on this soapbox :)

What do you prefer...

$2000 per box based on 5% market share

OR (certainly not _exclusive or_ )

$129 per box based on 30% (or maybe more, gasp!) market share
Click to expand...

Why don't you ask BeOS or OS/2 or NeXTStep?

arn
 
Re: Doing The Math...

Originally posted by DonZorro
Sorry Mod...my last post on this soapbox :)

What do you prefer...

$2000 per box based on 5% market share

OR (certainly not _exclusive or_ )

$129 per box based on 30% (or maybe more, gasp!) market share
Click to expand...

Um, for a market of 100 people :p .... the first would give me $10,000 the second would give me $3,870.... i think I rather take the first. And I do think it will be an exclusive or.
 
Re: Doing The Math...

Originally posted by DonZorro
What do you prefer...

$2000 per box based on 5% market share

OR (certainly not _exclusive or_ )

$129 per box based on 30% (or maybe more, gasp!) market share
Click to expand...


A mathematics comment... 5% to 30% is a six fold increase. Apple would be trading $2000 for (6 * $129) or $774. Not a good trade. Even with the higher profit margin on software, what would happen when Wallstreet sees Apple's overall revenue drop by two thirds?

Your comment doesn't help your argument.

Sorry, we all jumped on this one at once :)
 
Re: Doing The Math...

Originally posted by DonZorro
Sorry Mod...my last post on this soapbox :)

What do you prefer...

$2000 per box based on 5% market share

OR (certainly not _exclusive or_ )

$129 per box based on 30% (or maybe more, gasp!) market share
Click to expand...

It doesn't really matter. This issue was put to bed a few days ago. Apple will not be moving to Intel as long as IBM has anything to say about it.

https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030912124002.shtml
 
Originally posted by Photorun
Hopefully they'll work it out or the 750 (aka G3 to Apple) IBM is working on with Altivec and die shrinking may take everything up a notch, it has that potential with possibly topping out over 3.0 GHz, MP aware, and much much cooler temps and energy efficiency then the current G5 immediate roadmap.
Click to expand...

Where is this 3Ghz 750 w/Altivec coming from anyway? RIGHT NOW IBM doesn't produce a G3 faster than 1.1 Ghz, and it doesn't have Altivec. What makes anyone think that in 6-12 months IBM will put out a chip 3 times faster and with Altivec? In fact, I haven't heard any new G3 rumors putting it over 2Ghz.

I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to attack you, but this seems like a pipe dream. IBM is currently working on taking a 2 Ghz processor to 3 Ghz in 12 months. They may be good, but I don't think that they can do 1.1 Ghz to 3.0 Ghz and add a new functional unit in less time.
 
Re: g5 powerbook

Originally posted by sharky2313
There must be some big pressure to dump moto and get those G5s into a powerbook. I imagine that Apple will be able to scale back a g5 as the documentation alludes to by Feb. or the spring at the latest.

Moto has for the last time shown how incompetent they are. Apple makes its big bucks now on laptops and can ill afford to keep putting badly supplied g4's into powerbooks.

I find this quote as more postering than anything else. Trying to remain elusive and set the ground work for an amazing annoucement that Apple, against all odds, overcame technological hurdles to get the G5 into a powerbook. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

More like to lower expectations and give them time to do it right.
 
Originally posted by DonZorro
quote:
I don't see the world being a better place when Apple files chapter 11... do you?
---

Well, OS X would then come head-to-head with WinXP, WinNT, Win****hitsthefan...

"Waiting" for the latest cpu, gpu, motherboard, box, etc. would be eliminated.

Wouldn't you buy OS X to put on Intel hardware?

I just switched (a year ago) to Mac, but I must admit that the hardware choices are a bit limited (even though very good quality).

I don't think it'll cost Apple much to "switch"?

Provide OS X on great hardware (G5 PBs, iMacs, etc.) and also Intel hardware (for those who want/need the flexibility).

THINK about it...don't get all defensive!
Click to expand...

Very naive. Sure you'll have this great operating system (OSX) running on your garden variety hardware. Then what? Wait for all your software to be ported? If Apple moves to Intel it will be because they do not have any other choice.

Oh, BTW most serious applications will have to be recoded for Intel due to developers having a tendency to use optimized assembly for time critical sections.

This OSX on Intel needs to be shelved until Apple and IBM part ways and there are no other alternatives.
 
Re: Doing The Math...

Originally posted by DonZorro
Sorry Mod...my last post on this soapbox :)

What do you prefer...

$2000 per box based on 5% market share

OR (certainly not _exclusive or_ )

$129 per box based on 30% (or maybe more, gasp!) market share
Click to expand...

Just... ssshhhhh.
 
Given this talk, I thought I'd go back in time a few years.

The PowerMac G4 was announced 9/1999. The PowerBook remained at a G3 until January of 2001. That's 16 months. The Pismo G3 wasn't even announced until seven months after the desktop G4, and it sold very well (and I'm still using mine).

While I'd love a PBG5, and Apple would sell tons of them, there's a reality that Apple won't ship a PBG5 for quite a while. And it won't be the end of the world.

(The corollary to this is the first desktop and laptop G3's came out the same month, 11/97, but the G3 wasn't nearly as drastic a chip change as the G4 or G5, based on the 603e, wow that was a long time ago, and this is one awful, run-on sentence, don't you think?)
 
DOptical out

Originally posted by mkaake
eh, powerbook or not, what i noticed was

panther will support dolby 5.1 when used with the optical out

slick.
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to direct optical in/out with my Sony Minidisc recorder. (yes, a recordable iPod would be nice noo, hint hint Apple)
 
Originally posted by Keo
So I'm thinkin about buyin a new 15" PB, would you wait for the G5? Will the G4 be obselete? I plan on keepin the computer 4 years.
Click to expand...

My PowerBook G3 is 4 years old and going strong. It feels slow, believe me, but I can run my business on it, including Photoshop work in OS X.

Your G4 will last a long time and is a great machine. Buy it when you need it. If you don't really need one yet, may as well wait and see if a G5 comes out! I predict one will appear around February, but it's not a certainty.

Now... back to Intel vs. IBM...
 
Re: moto out of options?

Originally posted by dornball

i point i want to make is about motorola. after this current version of chips, the 1.25 & 1.33 G4 7457's, they have no where to go. there is no roadmap claiming that the 7457 (or some other variation) will push past the current lineup.
Click to expand...


Actually, there is.

http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDF2003_EUROPE_H1101.pdf


90nm process in early 2004
65nm in mid 2005 developed with Phillips and ST.

3+ Ghz and still a 10W goal.
RapidIO
Multi-core chips

'Classic' PPC up to 2Ghz and with DDR support. cost effective Multi-core packaging.

Of course, they've got to deliver on all of that yet.
 
Re: mmmmm.... powerbookG5

Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
:D

i'd LOOOOVE a powerbookG5

as soon as i buy some asbestos underwear to insulate my jewels from the heat and radiation...
Click to expand...

The statement that Apple is waiting for the lower power (smaller um) chips makes perfect sense. But what Apple is absolutely not used to is a chip supplier likely to actually meet the planned ship date of 12-03. To put that in perspective, that is only a bit over 3 months from right now.

Again with perspective, Apple needed the 7457 for powerbooks just short of a year ago and finally they have them now. Motorola sucks hard in terms of delivery. The tech is reasonable, if a bit behind on Ghz, but they deliver LOW POWER chips not HIGH PERFORMANCE chips.

IBM is working toward both, and at minimum will achieve an initial leap in technology as compared to what we are used to with Motorola.

I for onle look forward to the 90um G5 for PB's and wonder more than what speeds they will be, what bus the books will have? It would be a great example of culture shock for Apple customers to be able to buy this come January:

PB G5 1.6Ghz and 2.0 Ghz
800 mhz FSB
Radeon 9600 portable 64mb
8gb addressable memory but only 2 slots so higher capacity ram can be added as tech improves.
FW800/USB2/AX/BT/and a "legacy port" that splits to a dongle with:
Appletalk
Parallel
ADB
Serial (PC)
USB 1.1
ATAPI
Video that inlcudes a true VGA adapter
COMPOSITE video in and out w/audio (TV/VCR) w/digitization
BUILT-IN Cellmodem/phone/service

Optional "AirPower-tm" wireless power supply :)

Rocketman
 
Re: Re: mmmmm.... powerbookG5

Originally posted by Rocketman
The statement that Apple is waiting for the lower power (smaller um) chips makes perfect sense. But what Apple is absolutely not used to is a chip supplier likely to actually meet the planned ship date of 12-03. To put that in perspective, that is only a bit over 3 months from right now.
Click to expand...

What? A three month life span on the new PBG4? Your crazed.

Originally posted by Rocketman
Again with perspective, Apple needed the 7457 for powerbooks just short of a year ago and finally they have them now. Motorola sucks hard in terms of delivery. The tech is reasonable, if a bit behind on Ghz, but they deliver LOW POWER chips not HIGH PERFORMANCE chips.
Click to expand...

Late summer/early fall 03 seems pretty much in line with what I have been hearing all along in regards to the 7557/47. That does not seem late to me.

Originally posted by Rocketman
IBM is working toward both, and at minimum will achieve an initial leap in technology as compared to what we are used to with Motorola.

I for onle look forward to the 90um G5 for PB's and wonder more than what speeds they will be, what bus the books will have? It would be a great example of culture shock for Apple customers to be able to buy this come January:

PB G5 1.6Ghz and 2.0 Ghz
800 mhz FSB
Radeon 9600 portable 64mb
8gb addressable memory but only 2 slots so higher capacity ram can be added as tech improves.
FW800/USB2/AX/BT/and a "legacy port" that splits to a dongle with:
Appletalk
Parallel
ADB
Serial (PC)
USB 1.1
ATAPI
Video that inlcudes a true VGA adapter
COMPOSITE video in and out w/audio (TV/VCR) w/digitization
BUILT-IN Cellmodem/phone/service

Optional "AirPower-tm" wireless power supply :)

Rocketman
Click to expand...

AppleTalk is built into the Ehternet now, it's called EtherTalk and it is designed to provide AppleTalk support transparent to the network. Apple will be dropping support for the original Appletalk within 5 years.

Are you actually thinking that there is a need for parallel ports on a Mac? WTF? At this point there is no need for these legacy ports. And for your USB 1.1 idea, did you know that USB 2 is backward compatible with 1.1? No? There is no need for a second type of connector. And PBs come with a VGA adapter, and video out via S-Video, with an adapter to RCA Video. And a built in A/D converter? How big do you want this thing to be?

Insane drivel.
 
Re: Re: moto out of options?

Originally posted by singletrack
Actually, there is.

http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDF2003_EUROPE_H1101.pdf


90nm process in early 2004
65nm in mid 2005 developed with Phillips and ST.

3+ Ghz and still a 10W goal.
RapidIO
Multi-core chips

'Classic' PPC up to 2Ghz and with DDR support. cost effective Multi-core packaging.

Of course, they've got to deliver on all of that yet.
Click to expand...

Does anyone realisticly believe that Moto will get even close to this goal. It's taken them 4 years to go from 500 mhz to 1333 mhz. So they're suddenly gonna get their act together and jump to 3 ghz in a year? Ha. What comedy.

Moto is dead, as far as Apple is concerend. And with Apple moving away from the G4, Moto has zero incentive to develop processors for personal computers. Game over. End of story.

Originally posted by Blackcat
IBM is releases 90nm G5s in November.

:)
Click to expand...
Do you have anything remotely resembling fact to back this up? I've heard first quarter 2004 as best case scenario. It's possible that IBM will be sampling these in November, but shipping in volume is a whole another matter.
 
G5 Xserve then G6 laptop

I would hate for Apple to announce a G5-based laptop anytime soon. They cannot keep up with the current order of G5 products, and throwing another product into the mix would bog things down even more.

My guess: the next G5 product will be the Xserve.

My second guess: the new Apple laptops will be based on IBM's POWER5 chip. From the earliest words from IBM, the POWER5 was designed to scale to smaller devices. So I think it would be premature to rush the current POWER4-derived G5 into a laptop when a POWER5 chip, which is both better suited for laptops and much faster, is right around the corner.

And unlike Power4, Power5 will be designed not only for high-end servers but also for lower-end systems. article
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by somecows
When/if a G5 powerbook does come out, will it be in ALL the 15" powerbooks? What I mean is, will the low end machines have a G5 chip in them, or will they do something like only offer the G5 in the top of the line version of the 15" while keeping a G4 in the entry level model, at least for a little while?
Click to expand...

It'll switch all at once if past history is any indication.

Originally posted by Rincewind42
Where is this 3Ghz 750 w/Altivec coming from anyway? RIGHT NOW IBM doesn't produce a G3 faster than 1.1 Ghz, and it doesn't have Altivec. What makes anyone think that in 6-12 months IBM will put out a chip 3 times faster and with Altivec? In fact, I haven't heard any new G3 rumors putting it over 2Ghz.
Click to expand...

The Altivec-G3 will never exist. The effort it would take to create it could be invested in the G5 to make it cool and small enough to use across the entire product line. And we'd end up with a better processor, too.
 
Originally posted by Blackcat
Not really.

Apple makes a huge percentage of its profit from hardware. MacOS X for x86 would get them lots more $129s but lots less $2000s.

"You do the math" as they say.
Click to expand...

Except, apple is building a software suite they could sell separately from the OS on Intel; all the iLife stuff and professional apps. Just sell the OS like MS does and sell all the iLife stuff for $399 (or so) and there is your profit. Heck, they could even promote the 10.3 on intel for developers and have the iLife stuff for sale so they don't confuse joe average.
 
Re: Re: moto out of options?

Originally posted by singletrack
Actually, there is.

http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDF2003_EUROPE_H1101.pdf


90nm process in early 2004
65nm in mid 2005 developed with Phillips and ST.

3+ Ghz and still a 10W goal.
RapidIO
Multi-core chips

'Classic' PPC up to 2Ghz and with DDR support. cost effective Multi-core packaging.

Of course, they've got to deliver on all of that yet.
Click to expand...

i guess i wasn't clear earlier. what i was trying to say, was that motorola will not have anything for apple to use in thier PB's by the time the next revision is due. look at thier history in regards to delivery. they are not going to "all of a sudden" get their act together and put out consistently competitive chips on a regular cycle. moto is a the kid who was always late to class.

-dornball
 
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