GayWay - the gay and lesbian discussion (aka. Any Gays here?)

[scem0]

scem0- the deciding factor is the fact that they are helping you pay for school. They have every right to have a say in what you do while they're giving you cash for school. If you were on your own on a full ride- you could've told them to f*** off. As it is, this is what you have to do at the moment. Trust me, you made the right decision.

hopefully so .

I can't help but feel disappointed though.

I'll go dancing tonight (fully clothed) and I'll feel better.

_Emerson

 

[Zaid]

Thanks .

I'm not sure a dance exercise program would fly, there are a million of those .

I don't know where I should work. My only real interest right now is dancing .

_Emerson

Well you could become a dance instructor for shy gay guys just coming out of the closet. Ok so i'm not really being helpful here.

Also I completely agree with what Lee just said

 

[scem0]

So do I which is what makes this so frustrating.

I have to respect my parents opinion, but it kills me that to do that I have to deny my own healthy urges.

_Emerson

 

[Zaid]

So do I which is what makes this so frustrating.

I have to respect my parents opinion, but it kills me that to do that I have to deny my own healthy urges.

_Emerson

Still going to disagree with you on how 'healthy' the urge to become a go-go dancer is, but I certainly agree with the sentiment.

Don't worry your ability to be wild won't end after uni. Arguably they'll get better in your early twenties. Once you're working, you'll be able to have even more fun. A) you'll have some spare cash. B) You'll be able to go to any club you want (Never did understand that under/over 21 split in the states.)

Edit:
Well I'm off. Going up to Brum for the weekend, visiting family so I'll be back on Monday.
(may pop in if i can sneak some time in the evening)

Laters guys.

 

[leekohler]

So do I which is what makes this so frustrating.

I have to respect my parents opinion, but it kills me that to do that I have to deny my own healthy urges.

_Emerson

Let's put it this way- the healthy urge you should focus on right now is school. Trust me- you have a very long time to be slutty! I'm still at it. But I think the time is coming where I'm going to get a ball and chain again, I can feel it. It always comes around when you don't want it.

 

[iGary]

Let's put it this way- the healthy urge you should focus on right now is school. Trust me- you have a very long time to be slutty! I'm still at it. But I think the time is coming where I'm going to get a ball and chain again, I can feel it. It always comes around when you don't want it.

Well said, Lee.

 

[MontyZ]

So do I which is what makes this so frustrating.

I have to respect my parents opinion, but it kills me that to do that I have to deny my own healthy urges.

_Emerson

Actually, I don't think you are denying your healthy urges. You go dancing in clubs several nights a week! Becoming a go-go boy is NOT a healthy urge, and I'm glad you've decided to let it go for now. Trust me, you'll be VERY glad you did a few years from now. There are plenty of other ways to get into "trouble" in nyc without losing the respect of friends and family.

You're going to a very fine graphic arts school that many, many other kids would kill to attend. Make your education the top priority right now because what you do over the next few years can help set you up for life.

Also, you can't blame your mom for going ballistic when you approach them with the idea of becoming a gay male dancer in a club. They are spending a HUGE sum of money for your education and probably don't want to see that pissed away. You're an adult, they don't have to pay for your education, but, they are. Respect and honor that committment by staying focussed on getting the best education that their money can buy. Those dance clubs will be there for a LONG time, they aren't going away.

iGary also made some very good points in his post on the previous page, too, read it carefully.

 

[scem0]

School has been and will be my priority for the next three and a half years.

But that doesn't change the fact that I need money to pay my parents back, to eat, to live, and to do just about everything else. I'm going to have to work twice as hard at a job I like half as much to earn the same amount of money, most likely, and that really frustrates me. And I still see go-go dancing as being very healthy, but there's no reason to argue about that anymore.

I certainly can't blame my Mom for going ballistic, but she should still have more trust in me. Threats rarely help situations. If she had convinced me not to do it with logic then I wouldn't be so frustrated about it now. But I just don't agree with her reasons for not letting me do it at all. She is looking at me as a statistic and not an individual. As a go-go dancer I'd be more likely to get hurt, abuse alcohol/drugs, etc according to statistics. Following that logic I am more likely to get AIDS than a stupid straight guy who has unprotected sex with anonymous, trashy women, because I'm gay. AIDS is more prevalent among homosexuals, that's what the statistics say. But the statistics don't say that it's medically impossible for me to have AIDS because I'm a virgin and I haven't mixed body fluids with anyone. The statistics don't recognize that I am very unlikely to get AIDS because I'm not going to let a man penetrate me unprotected, because I'm not going to be promiscuous. Statistics and stereotypes are a bad thing to go off of, especially for me, I've never fit into the majority of statistics.

_Emerson

 

[leekohler]

School has been and will be my priority for the next three and a half years.

But that doesn't change the fact that I need money to pay my parents back, to eat, to live, and to do just about everything else.

You'll be fine. Can you get a job waiting tables? That can be really slutty too. Trust me.

I certainly can't blame my Mom for going ballistic, but she should still have more trust in me. Threats rarely help situations. If she had convinced me not to do it with logic then I wouldn't be so frustrated about it now. But I just don't agree with her reasons for not letting me do it at all. She is looking at me as a statistic and not an individual. As a go-go dancer I'd be more likely to get hurt, abuse alcohol/drugs, etc according to statistics. Following that logic I am more likely to get AIDS than a stupid straight guy who has unprotected sex with anonymous, trashy women, because I'm gay. AIDS is more prevalent among homosexuals, that's what the statistics say. But the statistics don't say that it's medically impossible for me to have AIDS because I'm a virgin and I haven't mixed body fluids with anyone. The statistics don't recognize that I am very unlikely to get AIDS because I'm not going to let a man penetrate me unprotected, because I'm not going to be promiscuous. Statistics and stereotypes are a bad thing to go off of, especially for me, I've never fit into the majority of statistics.

_Emerson

Emerson- work on your communication with your family then. Talk to your parents more about what's really bothering you, lack of trust. But for now- forget dancing.

 

[scem0]

Forgetting it will be impossible, I'm afraid . I'll be reminded too often - every time I go to a club and see people stuffing bills in young boy's underwear. But I'm resigned on the matter. I won't be doing it.

_Emerson

 

[DJY]

I have to respect my parents opinion, but it kills me that to do that I have to deny my own healthy urges.

If I'm out of place here - I apologise...
If I'm less than articulate - again I apologise...
[enough disclaimers]

scem0 whether or not this particular urge is a healthy one or not - I will leave for now... but it sounds like you have started an incredible journey. New realisations, new city, fast development, constant growing and evolving, and the path ahead of you is so exciting and wonderful. As a young man, who has recently 'come out', 'moved to NYC', 'started college', and enthusiastically involving himself in a new lifestyle, I think from reading your posts / blog that you are certainly an individual who appears to have a very grounded perspective. For that I think both yourself and your parents get some credit.

Life is a funny thing... urges are good, but as a young man in so many new environments, with copletely new perspectives sometimes moderation can be hard, but in the long run, worthwhile.

I did read your emails to your mum, thanks for posting them. There are alot of personal issues / content in there - and whilst I understand your position about your Mum's lack of trust... remember you have had some major life changing events, and you might need to give those people in your life some time to catch up... they are still back home remember and don't interact with MYC or you on a daily basis anymore.

As for go-go dancing.... as I said I'm not touching whether or not it isa healthy urge... but for me... you have wide enthusiastic eyes open in an amazing city... so much fun, new experiences, people, and places... you have one of the best playgrounds in the world - and sometimes when we change our favourite activities / hobbies / things we enjoy into work - we loose one of the things we love the most.
You love going out clubbing, dancing, having new experiences and meeting people... and if you go-go danced.. then your play-area becomes a work area... and it might ruin your clubbing / dancing / meeting new people experiences in more ways than one.

Don't know my post actually says much in the end, despite the length... but thought I'd contribute.

You have started an amazing journey, with so many exciting experiences ahead of you... and whilst I understand you want alot of them now, sometimes a bit of patience and perspective only makes things more enjoyable in the long run.

 

[scem0]

You're right DJY, I think it'll take at least a year for my poor parents to warm up to the idea that I'm not the same person they once knew. I think when they come up to NYC after thanksgiving, they will see how happy I am and they will be very likely to have more trust in me. Hey, I might even take them clubbing .

I'll do my best to have patience, it's not only the least I can do, but the only thing I can do.

Thanks for the input DJY, I really see what you're saying and I appreciate your viewpoint immensely.

_Emerson

 

[wdlove]

School has been and will be my priority for the next three and a half years.

But that doesn't change the fact that I need money to pay my parents back, to eat, to live, and to do just about everything else. I'm going to have to work twice as hard at a job I like half as much to earn the same amount of money, most likely, and that really frustrates me. And I still see go-go dancing as being very healthy, but there's no reason to argue about that anymore.

I certainly can't blame my Mom for going ballistic, but she should still have more trust in me. Threats rarely help situations. If she had convinced me not to do it with logic then I wouldn't be so frustrated about it now. But I just don't agree with her reasons for not letting me do it at all. She is looking at me as a statistic and not an individual. As a go-go dancer I'd be more likely to get hurt, abuse alcohol/drugs, etc according to statistics. Following that logic I am more likely to get AIDS than a stupid straight guy who has unprotected sex with anonymous, trashy women, because I'm gay. AIDS is more prevalent among homosexuals, that's what the statistics say. But the statistics don't say that it's medically impossible for me to have AIDS because I'm a virgin and I haven't mixed body fluids with anyone. The statistics don't recognize that I am very unlikely to get AIDS because I'm not going to let a man penetrate me unprotected, because I'm not going to be promiscuous. Statistics and stereotypes are a bad thing to go off of, especially for me, I've never fit into the majority of statistics.

_Emerson

It's just your mothers caring and love. I can see her point and yours, both are valid.

You are correct about the statistics. It only takes a small break in the skin in the areas that the bodily fluid is swapped. The risk would be there. Also the condom is 100% safe. There is the proper use and they can leak. Willing to chat if you want more specific information, I don't want to get in trouble.

 

[DakotaGuy]

every time I go to a club and see people stuffing bills in young boy's underwear. But I'm resigned on the matter. I won't be doing it.

_Emerson

Glad to hear that and never forget, "Money is the root of all evil." Sure you need money to get by in the world, but there are other ways to make it.

By the way...there will be a great Dateline NBC on tonight at 7:00 Central, not sure what time it will be on where you live. They go after Internet predators and when these perverts think they are going to meet up with a kid for sex, the reporter walkes into the room. I saw a little about it on the Today show before I left the house today and to see these people's reactions is priceless.

 

[Grey Beard]

Self reliance

Forgetting it will be impossible, I'm afraid . I'll be reminded too often - every time I go to a club and see people stuffing bills in young boy's underwear. But I'm resigned on the matter. I won't be doing it.

_Emerson

No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this; the only right is what is after my own constitution; the only wrong what is against it.

 

[leekohler]

Glad to hear that and never forget, "Money is the root of all evil." Sure you need money to get by in the world, but there are other ways to make it.

By the way...there will be a great Dateline NBC on tonight at 7:00 Central, not sure what time it will be on where you live. They go after Internet predators and when these perverts think they are going to meet up with a kid for sex, the reporter walkes into the room. I saw a little about it on the Today show before I left the house today and to see these people's reactions is priceless.

I hope the reporter walked in with the police.

 

[scem0]

Forgive me for hijacking so many pages of this thread, but I want one final post to clarify some things:

• School - It's my priority right now. I want everyone to understand that. I know I talk about dancing a lot, but to be honest it is teaching me more about myself than school is teaching me at the moment, so it's affecting me more. I always make sure to get my schoolwork done though, and I still manage to get a healthy amount of sleep between the dancing and my classes. Education > Dancing.
• My relationship with my parents - I'm not worried about this, I have a wonderful relationship with my parents. If anything, this will make it stronger. As I said in my coming out letter: Good relationships are built on honesty, and I still firmly believe this. Whether or not my parents liked it, I was honest about my desires with them. They aren't clueless, they will respect the honesty I showed them. Hopefully it will help build some of the trust that I feel is lacking. I'm not angry with them, their response was totally understandable. The only thing that angered me was that they resorted to threats - they'll send me home if I go-go dance. Threats won't help the situation, they'll only make it more volatile, they should know that. So, I'm a little bit frustrated with them, but I have no negative feelings that won't fade quickly, or that they aren't aware of.
• The morality of go-go dancing - I think it's irrelevant now. The issue is more about trust now. I don't think there is anything immoral about go-go dancing. Obviously my parents do. They should respect my views though and let me make my own decisions without resorting to threats.
• Closure - I'm not all that bitter about the situation. I hate that I had to choose between my own interests and parental honesty. They are both very important to me. It's over and done with, I chose to be honest to my parents rather than explore my interests.

So, this issue is over. Back to the normal GayWay.

_Emerson

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Thing is i don't think you should see it as a lack of trust. The go-go dancing thing is a very slippery slope no matter how well you have you head screwed on. (and you know this) Hell I'd be worried for you! (as I'm sure would lee, chip, Kevin and everyone else here). Obviously going into it knowing what you're doing and having your head in the right place vastly improves your chances of coming out of it with nothing but a bit of extra cash, but even then mate, it's not a certainty. So don't see it as your mom not trusting you despite your track record, see it as your mom being worried about you entering a world where a saint could be lead astray.

Well said. In particular your last sentence.

scem0 is looking at this as a money maker. But people won't "pay" unless they can have "fun". Having been to few go-go/strip clubs in my years, the dancers that try to keep their values in tack, generally don't do well on the tips.

Just a thought, why not try and speak to a few go-go boys and see what they say it's like? See if they've had hassle from sleazy men, or been followed home, or if the management seems bad or corrupt, or if they say it's all good fun. It would be a good way to get more information about it, although their views are obviously one person's opinion, same as here.

Another thought would go to a bar that had an amateur nite for go-go dancers. It would give scem0 a taste of what the real thing might be like.

Well you did not scare me off just yet. No one would want to see me nude so I don't have to worry about that myself. I mean, I take care of myself and am not really fat or anything like that, I am just a slightly dorky, white as hell boy from the midwest that grew up driving a tractor and riding a horse. Guys like me are just not considered, hot. I have been told that I clean-up pretty nice however so I don't know, but I know I will leave the nudity up you you. (hint: there is a picture of me somewhere on Macrumors, but you would have to find it and I submitted the dorkiest one I could find so you would not be that impressed compared to what you see daily in the cities...haha.)

I know Hollywood always tries and make us military types all these perfect people with 6 paks, totally toned and tanned, but that is not true. We are just like everyone else. We might be in a little better shape because we have to meet weight standards and physical fitness standards, but it is nothing like the movies show!

Just becuase you might not be able to grace the pages of many Gay and Str8 skin mags, don't think that there are those of us that don't appreciate a real person, not some gym rat.

Thanks .

I'm not sure a dance exercise program would fly, there are a million of those .

I don't know where I should work. My only real interest right now is dancing .

_Emerson

Thought here, find out how you can be a dance/exersise instructor. The town of Herndon in Virginia had job postings here for something like $20-30 an hour!

Still going to disagree with you on how 'healthy' the urge to become a go-go dancer is, but I certainly agree with the sentiment.

My feeling are the same. scem0 is just starting to realize just how many other "parents" he has here.

Edit:
Well I'm off. Going up to Brum for the weekend, visiting family so I'll be back on Monday.
(may pop in if i can sneak some time in the evening)

Laters guys.

Have fun!

 

[Grey Beard]

My feeling are the same. scem0 is just starting to realize just how many other "parents" he has here.

EEEK !!! Me? A parent, with parental responsibilities. No freaking way. Now a Brother in Arms, that I could relate to.

For a' that, an' a' that,
It's comin yet for a' that,
That man to man the world o'er
Shall brithers be for a' that.

Robert Burns​

Fraternally
Kevin
aka Grey Beard

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

EEEK !!! Me? A parent, with parental responsibilities. No freaking way. Now a Brother in Arms, that I could relate to.

For a' that, an' a' that,
It's comin yet for a' that,
That man to man the world o'er
Shall brithers be for 'a that.

Robert Burns​

Fraternally
Kevin
aka Grey Beard

LOL

Sometimes reading scem0's posts, I thank my lucky stars not having a rug rat to worry about.

scem0 I know you are disappointed. But time does heal the wounds.Trust me on that.

I know that I have had my share of coulda, woulda's. But many did not come close to what you wanted to embark upon.

In some ways the pause in my life, while frustrating, was also good for me. I am making up for lost time with my travels. Even now I am trying to gauge interest in a MR meet in NYC the weekend of November 20th.

 

[scem0]

I'd be up for it .

_Emerson

 

[Grey Beard]

A NYC tryst - sob, and I can't come.

And while you guys are planning a New York meet up, Here I am in the depths of my depravity, at the nadir of my darkest hell, with the only consolation being, as I am laying in the gutter, I am looking up at the stars. Ah well back to seeking solace from my books.

Kevin
aka Grey Beard

 

[slooksterPSV]

And while you guys are planning a New York meet up, Here I am in the depths of my depravity, at the nadir of my darkest hell, with the only consolation being, as I am laying in the gutter, I am looking up at the stars. Ah well back to seeking solace from my books.

Kevin
aka Grey Beard

I'm sorry Grey Beard. I wish you could go. --NOTE: I'm not going--

 

[scem0]

I wish you could go too, Kevin .

I wish we could all go to NZ, rather .

_Emerson

 

[Grey Beard]

I wish you could go too, Kevin .

I wish we could all go to NZ, rather .

_Emerson

Awww, shucks, Thanks Guys, and wish y'all could come here.

Kevin
aka Grey Beard