Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Gen 3 butterfly keyboard

New FF trackpad.
iPhone 7&8 home button.

Haptic feedback is so good that it is indiscernible from a real key. I guess with the large keyboard they only need some time. I am confident that eventually we will see a keyboard, which will be good enough for 99% of users.
 
SDColorado said:
I swear I saw a photo of it somewhere where you could remove half the display and attach a physical keyboard, but I am not sure if that was an early or late render. Nor do I have any idea how accurate any of the rumors are.

Other than being able to be put into some nifty configurations, I am not sure I understand what the market is for it either.

I am not even that big a fan of typing on the phone or iPad, let alone making extended use of that sort of keyboard.

Surface-phone-fold-621x325.jpg
Click to expand...

Duncan Trussell described it well talking about their products on JRE podcast (don't really listen in general just saw a clip of it, and I think Trussell is funny): "they design computers made for aliens (now). like what humans are these targeted for?"
 
  • Like
Reactions: SDColorado
thadoggfather said:
Duncan Trussell described it well talking about their products on JRE podcast (don't really listen in general just saw a clip of it, and I think Trussell is funny): "they design computers made for aliens (now). like what humans are these targeted for?"
Click to expand...

He has a good point. Or form over function to the extreme, where the device may be more fashion accessory that tool.
 
SDColorado said:
He has a good point. Or form over function to the extreme, where the device may be more fashion accessory that tool.
Click to expand...

I'll say this for the MacBook Pro. One of my friends has a 2017 and I was helping her type some code. Man I did't realize how much night and day difference there is between the two. Mine feels so much nicer, whereas the 2017 felt like typing on a brick. You really can feel the difference that the silicone underneath makes. Regardless of whether or not it helps keep the dust out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dhershberger, SDColorado and macintoshmac
csurfr said:
I'll say this for the MacBook Pro. One of my friends has a 2017 and I was helping her type some code. Man I did't realize how much night and day difference there is between the two. Mine feels so much nicer, whereas the 2017 felt like typing on a brick. You really can feel the difference that the silicone underneath makes. Regardless of whether or not it helps keep the dust out.
Click to expand...

Seriously? That much difference? Brick!
 
I just came from the 2015 MacBook Pro to 2018 MacBook 13 inch I like the keyboard I don't have any issue from what other's are complaining I like this keyboard then my 2015 MacBook Pro. With this year MacBook Pro I noticed that I'm able to type faster than before with my 2015 MacBook Pro.
 
Eduardo75890 said:
I just came from the 2015 MacBook Pro to 2018 MacBook 13 inch I like the keyboard I don't have any issue from what other's are complaining I like this keyboard then my 2015 MacBook Pro. With this year MacBook Pro I noticed that I'm able to type faster than before with my 2015 MacBook Pro.
Click to expand...

I am able to type great on my 2016/2017 keyboard as well. Most importantly to me, the keys depress with a lesser amount of pressure than before (2011 keys). I like this keyboard and can only imagine what the 2018 would be like, considering Apple has not brought the demo machines out here yet - they are available to purchase but we don't have demo machines just yet.
 
csurfr said:
I'll say this for the MacBook Pro. One of my friends has a 2017 and I was helping her type some code. Man I did't realize how much night and day difference there is between the two. Mine feels so much nicer, whereas the 2017 felt like typing on a brick. You really can feel the difference that the silicone underneath makes. Regardless of whether or not it helps keep the dust out.
Click to expand...
Which one do you have?
 
macintoshmac said:
I think people are mostly appreciative of the typing feel of this new keyboard, and that is what the positivity is about. Key failures have not happened yet.
Click to expand...

That's good. I've been holding off on a new MacBook because of the keyboards. I'll start a new job next year, and I'll need a new notebook then. Hopefully the issue is gone by then. Such a key component failure in such expensive laptops is not cool. The old MBA's and MBP's were just so reliable! They had amazing life, so many people got 5+ years out of them. With these new models I'm just not sure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: elhungarian and macintoshmac
macintoshmac said:
I am able to type great on my 2016/2017 keyboard as well.
Click to expand...

Newtons Apple said:
My 2017 keyboard sucked right out of the box.
Click to expand...

There's really two "problems" with the keyboard:

One: what makes a "good" keyboard in terms of feel/travel/layout is highly subjective. Some people won't use anything less than a Model-M/Das/etc. with individual, full-travel mechanical keys. Other people could happily write a novel on their iPad. My impression of Apple's previous 2010-2015 "chiclet" keyboard was that it struck a pretty good compromise between key travel and "low profile" - lots of people (including myself) loved it and the majority of people were at least OK with it. I think the new design is a bit too "Marmite" - people either love it or hate it - which may not be the best choice for a laptop where you can't easily change the keyboard...

Two: reliability. Even before you get to dust sensitivity issues, what is not subjective is that the keyboard is a mechanical component subject to wear and tear and - in the MBP - if it breaks it can only be fixed by replacing the entire top of the case & battery at great expense (Applecare isn't for life and shouldn't be compulsory). Add the possibility of ultra-sensitivity to everyday dust - which seems to be a logical consequence of the tiny key travel - and we have the real problem. Only Apple have the non-anecdotal figures, but it does seem to be an issue. Only time will tell if the new membrane has fixed that.

I've tried the gen2 keyboard in the shop and while I'm not smitten, it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. On my iMac, I do have experience of the old aluminium keyboard vs Magic Keyboard 2 (which is about half-way between the old keys and the MBP butterfly keyboard) and ended up going back to the old one even after giving the new a good, extended tryout, but I could live with the new. No, its the prospect of reliability problems that put me off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: macintoshmac
theluggage said:
There's really two "problems" with the keyboard:

One: what makes a "good" keyboard in terms of feel/travel/layout is highly subjective. Some people won't use anything less than a Model-M/Das/etc. with individual, full-travel mechanical keys. Other people could happily write a novel on their iPad. My impression of Apple's previous 2010-2015 "chiclet" keyboard was that it struck a pretty good compromise between key travel and "low profile" - lots of people (including myself) loved it and the majority of people were at least OK with it. I think the new design is a bit too "Marmite" - people either love it or hate it - which may not be the best choice for a laptop where you can't easily change the keyboard...

Two: reliability. Even before you get to dust sensitivity issues, what is not subjective is that the keyboard is a mechanical component subject to wear and tear and - in the MBP - if it breaks it can only be fixed by replacing the entire top of the case & battery at great expense (Applecare isn't for life and shouldn't be compulsory). Add the possibility of ultra-sensitivity to everyday dust - which seems to be a logical consequence of the tiny key travel - and we have the real problem. Only Apple have the non-anecdotal figures, but it does seem to be an issue. Only time will tell if the new membrane has fixed that.

I've tried the gen2 keyboard in the shop and while I'm not smitten, it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. On my iMac, I do have experience of the old aluminium keyboard vs Magic Keyboard 2 (which is about half-way between the old keys and the MBP butterfly keyboard) and ended up going back to the old one even after giving the new a good, extended tryout, but I could live with the new. No, its the prospect of reliability problems that put me off.
Click to expand...


All that is important to me is that it works and so far it has worked quite well. After a while most will love the "short throw" keys. I have used now for weeks and could not be more happy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: macintoshmac
RegularGuy09 said:
That's good. I've been holding off on a new MacBook because of the keyboards. I'll start a new job next year, and I'll need a new notebook then. Hopefully the issue is gone by then. Such a key component failure in such expensive laptops is not cool. The old MBA's and MBP's were just so reliable! They had amazing life, so many people got 5+ years out of them. With these new models I'm just not sure.
Click to expand...

Indeed. keyboard failure in itself is not cool considering that the pre 2016 ones were rock solid, and now the expense we will incur if we need to replace it, is beyond not cool. It's downright punch-worthy in the faces of those designers who did not consider twice before making the keyboard such an expensive replacement, and, well, same goes for battery, then, I presume? Replacing the battery will mean getting a new top case and Touch Bar as well? Someone was completely disconnected with reality at Apple.
 
macintoshmac said:
Indeed. keyboard failure in itself is not cool considering that the pre 2016 ones were rock solid, and now the expense we will incur if we need to replace it, is beyond not cool. It's downright punch-worthy in the faces of those designers who did not consider twice before making the keyboard such an expensive replacement, and, well, same goes for battery, then, I presume? Replacing the battery will mean getting a new top case and Touch Bar as well? Someone was completely disconnected with reality at Apple.
Click to expand...

It is just part of the sacrifices that Apple made in it's never ending quest for "thin"!
 
  • Like
Reactions: macintoshmac
Newtons Apple said:
All that is important to me is that it works and so far it has worked quite well. After a while most will love the "short throw" keys. I have used now for weeks and could not be more happy.
Click to expand...

It is nice that you are happy with the 2018, and I am too, with my 2016. With AppleCare you are covered till 2021 I fancy, and with AppleCare and keyboard replacement programme, I am covered till the end of 2020, so I am not complaining as much.

However, by that time, Apple does indeed need to come up with a proper fix for the failing keyboard and the battery replacement. I would cringe at the thought of having to part with about $300 on AppleCare additionally to have my computer and battery covered every time I purchase a new Apple computer, and then after that, I am staring at hundreds of dollars more if I ever get so much as a battery replaced.

The kind of waste we are looking at; having to replace several components in one go to replace one component, is absolutely a facepalm moment for me, in this day and age where the world is dealing with waste management problems on so many levels.
 
Last edited:
macintoshmac said:
It is nice that you are happy with the 2018, and I am too, with my 2016. With AppleCare you are covered till 2021 I fancy, and with AppleCare and keyboard replacement programme, I am covered till the end of 2020, so I am not complaining as much.

However, by that time, Apple does indeed need to come up with a proper fix for the failing keyboard and the battery replacement. I would cringe at the thought of having to invest close to $300 on AppleCare additionally to have my computer and battery covered and then after that, I am staring at hundreds of dollars more if I ever get so much as a battery replaced.

The kind of waste we are looking at; having to replace several components in one go to replace one component, is absolutely a facepalm moment for me, in this day and age where the world is dealing with waste management problems on so many levels.
Click to expand...

I keep laptops maybe 2 years, even left Apple and went to Lenovo after my 2017 fiasco! I much prefer Apple hardware even though I use Windows 99.9% of the time. If I have a warranty issue, i expect Apple to take care of it. When my 2017 had three keyboard replacements I demanded and got a refund.

Not really worried about "waste management on so many levels". Will let others worry about that. More important to me is keeping work for my 36 employees and if the weather will be good enough for me to fish off shore, this weekend. More important things to worry about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: macintoshmac
csurfr said:
Definitely. You can really feel the dampening in the new one. Granted I w learned after having the 2016, 2017 and now a 2018 to type really quietly and wjth very little force on the new style keyboard. So I’m not slamming the keys through the silicone.
Click to expand...

Hmm! Good point, though I never slammed the keys ever.
[doublepost=1535045391][/doublepost]
RegularGuy09 said:
Wait you cant just get your battery replaced? Damn.
Click to expand...

You can. Only, they will mandatorily replace Touch Bar, keyboard, trackpad, speakers - essentially the entire top case for replacing just one component. And ask you to foot the bill for replacements you did not need but had to get. :p Fortunately, you are covered for up to 4 years from the date of purchase for 2016-17 models.

For the 2018 ones, not yet.
 
Last edited:
macintoshmac said:
Hmm! Good point, though I never slammed the keys ever.
[doublepost=1535045391][/doublepost]

You can. Only, they will mandatorily replace Touch Bar, keyboard, trackpad, speakers - essentially the entire top case for replacing just one component. And ask you to foot the bill for replacements you did not need but had to get. :p Fortunately, you are covered for up to 4 years from the date of purchase for 2016-17 models.

For the 2018 ones, not yet.
Click to expand...
Battery replacement is not all that expensive. It’s $129 for MacBook Air and $199 for the 12” MacBook and the newer 13”/15” MBP. A lot of new parts do come along for the ride (except with the Air).
 
  • Like
Reactions: macintoshmac
What about the older retina MBPs? Was it the same for them? I heard that they had their batteries glued in too?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back