Gen 3 butterfly keyboard

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Lastgreen, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. MacGizmo macrumors 65816

    MacGizmo

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Location:
    Arizona
    #451
    The biggest complaint I have about the 2018 MBP keyboard is that I don't get to use it enough. I have the Mac hooked up to an LG UltraFine most of the time, and using the latest Apple full size magic keyboard and mouse. I actually prefer the feel of the MBP keyboard to the external one.
     
  2. Naimfan Suspended

    Naimfan

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    #452
    The keyboard, while improved, is still awful, particularly relative to the 2015 and earlier. I have a 2018 and a 2015, and typing on the 2018 is painful relative to the 2015.
     
  3. determined09 macrumors 65816

    determined09

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    #453
    I tried the 2018 keyboard in the Apple store and I didn't like it as much as my 2014 macbook pro keyboard. :(
     
  4. navaira macrumors 68040

    navaira

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Location:
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    #454
    Awkay. Mine is going to be replaced. I installed Unshaky, but by now E, I, O and S were affected, while Unshaky does a really good job this is not what I want for €2500.

    I still maintain the keyboard feels fantastic and sounds much better, though. Very Jony Ive. Hey, it doesn't work like it should, but isn't it purdy? ;)
     
  5. satysin macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    #455
    Had my 2018 15" MBP for a little over 5 weeks now. Love the keyboard. It is weird to begin with but it is great to type on for extended periods of time. At least for me anyway. It is quite a bit quieter than the 2nd gen although I never owned a MBP with a butterfly keyboard before so I can't make a perfect comparison, just from my limited use from time to time of the previous butterfly keyboards.

    It feels a little softer as well. No issues with any keys (yet!).
     
  6. Gen macrumors 6502a

    Gen

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    #456
    I love the new keyboard. Especially now that they keys dont jiggle when you type. And i love that they're larger.
     
  7. Natzoo macrumors 65816

    Natzoo

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Location:
    Not sure where i am
    #457
    The up and down keys are so loud on my 2018 mpb, is it the same for you or anyone else? Also ive been around alot of dust and particles for the past month and so far the keyboard is working. So hopefully that is a good sign
     
  8. navaira macrumors 68040

    navaira

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Location:
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    #458
    How is everyone lse's keyboard doing? I rplaced th first one because 'E' and 'O' gave double output. The replacment ither eats "E", "O", "I" and "T", or doubles them.

    I didn't correct the typos above on purpose.

    *SIGH*

    No kernel crashes, no crashing speakers, a keyboard that sounds lovely (yes, up and down are louder for me as well), and THIS. After three generations. I love this computer, but...
     
  9. SDColorado macrumors 68020

    SDColorado

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #459
    I replaced until #3 because several keys would not always register on the first press and the 8 key would occasionally stick.

    I just don’t have confidence that the keyboard issue has been truly resolved.
     
  10. casperghst42 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    #460
    You know, just because Ive designed a keyboard less device does not mean that he can design a keyboard ... the Butterfly Keyboard show that he should have outsource the design to someone who actually know what they are doing ;-)
     
  11. navaira macrumors 68040

    navaira

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Location:
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    #461
    Neither do I. Irritatingly, my 2016 rMB never had a problem that couldn't be resolved with canned air, yet this model with its Special Membranes does. Clearly Apple was telling the truth when saying the membranes do not improve reliability.
     
  12. SDColorado macrumors 68020

    SDColorado

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #462
    The older MBP’s you almost never had to do anything with the keyboards. Canned air or otherwise. Now we are down to people asking if you ever used it outside (asked on another MR thread), because apparently the developer of Better Touch Bar thought maybe the issues he had with his was from using it on his balcony or some crazy stuff. There is just something inherently wrong with a keyboard design if folks are worried about a little dust or pollen.
     
  13. 537635 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Location:
    Slovenia, EU
    #463
    That's just plain reckless. I mean he took a laptop from a closed apartment to a balcony. It was probably an open balcony. Does he think that a laptop is a portable computer or what?!?
     
  14. Roadstar macrumors 65816

    Roadstar

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    #464
    Not to forget that a closed apartment doesn’t sound like a proper cleanroom these laptops were obviously designed for
     
  15. SDColorado macrumors 68020

    SDColorado

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #465
    Heaven forbid you get heat, food, paintballs, buckets of ice or anything else near it :)

     
  16. case2001 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    #466
    I love Thinkpads! They are awesome. I have had great experiences with their support as well.
     
  17. mindfulmac macrumors member

    mindfulmac

    Joined:
    May 24, 2018
    #467
    Hello everyone. It's been a long time since I've updated you here. Lots has happened.

    TL;DR: just read the second screenshot in this post to have my entire situation summarised in a neat single paragraph.

    Let's start with where I last left off on this thread. Someone replied to my last post:
    This is correct. However, I still have rights to it as the 'gift recipient' under Australian Consumer Law (full rights as if I were the original purchaser, which makes sense, it's not fair to receive a defective macbook for Christmas if Apple still got paid), so I checked with ACCC about this conundrum in consumer law, and, they said it's up to the dispute resolution process to work that one out. (Obviously, I'd win in this case. Apple knew I was the only user as iCloud activated since day one and not a thief of the laptop, LOL, so they were just trying to deny me my remedy, once again.)

    Jesus. So let's summarise everything from then to now. I'll try to make this as concise as I can.

    My case is still ongoing, and I am still aiming to hold Apple to account for how hostile and anti-consumer they have been and continue to be regarding this disastrous keyboard defect. I knew this fight could take months. Well it's been 2 months so far.

    Apple has done so much wrongdoing under consumer law, in my case, that if I really wanted to, it's possible I could sue Apple for MAJOR AND EMBARRASSING REASONS, which I didn't actually realise when dealing with Apple early on in July.

    So, to remind you of where we left off, I posted my second letter of demand here. In it I demanded a refund within a reasonable / normal amount of time, or I'd sue.

    In response, Apple surprised me with this news: they would now offer me a 2018 unit as a replacement remedy, with the explanation being

    because, the representative said (and this time just for today this is a paraphrase quote from memory), "We don't manufacture the 2017 model anymore". (What a BS excuse for only NOW offering me the 2018 fixed model instead of the 2017 model which is all I asked for in the first place. Obviously, it was because I had just refused to accept this outrageous coercion and unconscionable behaviour of saying that it would take up to 2 months for me to receive my refund after I returned my MacBook Pro to Apple.)

    Once they offered me this remedy, I realised that I had a lot more dirt on Apple than I first could see. I gave myself a week due to busyness in work and life, then sent the following third letter of demand (in the form of an email) in which I now demanded an UPGRADED unit as a form of compensation for all the lost time, productivity and stress that I had been put through as a result of Apple's sustained breaches of consumer law and misconduct towards me, or I'd sue to get it that way instead:

    [​IMG]

    My thinking was, that they either comply and the case finally ends and I just focus on sending the ACCC as much info as possible and urge them to investigate Apple on this issue as much as possible, or if they refuse, I will make the most of my situation and allocate more of my time to sue the F U C K out of Apple for the sake of all consumers in Australia and even overseas.

    You know what I realised? The Keyboard Service Program ITSELF is unacceptable! Why should we accept a defective part being replaced only with the SAME defective part? It should have been a VOLUNTARY RECALL, and there ought to be a class action lawsuit in CA just for this issue itself. There should be one in every country Apple sells in, until they change it to a recall program.

    In response to this (in which I become more aware of my PR leverage in relation to this case), I was referred to Apple's Executive Relations department, who will be the person to deal with me from now on. After a phone call with them in which I stated the same firm assertion as in the email, the Executive Liaison allowed herself a week to apparently contact staff in Apple's legal and engineering departments, then got back to me saying that no, they would only offer me a 'like-for-like' 2018 replacement, and not with a few upgrades and AppleCare+ in the compensatory form that I had demanded above.

    And yeah, all while pretending that everything I had gone through simply didn't happen. (No apology, no nothing.)

    So today, I filed an official Consumer Complaint with NSW Fair Trading to have them demand the compensation on my behalf. See the summary here:

    [​IMG]
    So that's where it's at.

    I've now realised that if I really wanted, I could pile so much on Apple in the case of a court case or tribunal case.

    As a consumer, I could sue Apple (i.e. seek compensation from them) for the nature of their Keyboard Service Program itself. (It doesn't even repair the defect!)

    As a consumer, I could sue Apple for refusing to offer the consumer of a 2016 or 2017 macbook pro a replacement with a 2018 macbook pro and only offering a defective replacement units in full knowledge that they're doing this, which I didn't realise in the first place. (How easily we Apple customers just roll over with how Apple treat us! That's all changed now!)

    Some of this stuff I could sue for, would probably require a decent lawyer though (but it could help my own compensation case to just lay it out as what Apple is doing to consumers, and make it a big media expose in the process). So depending on how things continue to go, I have a lot of options ahead of me.

    It doesn't matter that Apple lawyers or PR people may be reading this post you're reading right now. It appears the consumer victory is mine to seize just depending on how much time I want to spend on it, and exactly what I want to sue for (and whether I can get assistance for that).

    What I'm asking for from Apple to me is just a pittance - $1500 in compensation value on top of a reasonable replacement remedy.

    What's important is my symbolic victory for all other consumers and Apple needing to learn that they can't mistreat consumers like they have with this keyboard defect.

    If Apple are treating me like this, then they're doing it to others, and this has to be fought.

    I'm fed up with this treatment from Apple, and just so you know my down arrow key has taken a turn for the worst since a week ago and it's a TERRIBLE experience trying to use it like a normal keyboard. All the better for demonstrating on TV!

    Glen
     
  18. Hexiii macrumors 65816

    Hexiii

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Location:
    Prague, Czech Republic
    #468
    Ac
    Actually, it's very unlikely that Ive had much to do with the mechanism itself. Might be looking at Dan Riccio for that...
     
  19. macintoshmac macrumors 68030

    macintoshmac

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    #469
    We are only going back to the "purest expression of computing" again, where the machines were intolerant of dust and such everyday stuff so much that we had to remove our shoes before entering into the "computer room".
     
  20. SDColorado macrumors 68020

    SDColorado

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #470
    Now that's a comforting thought. Sound like a Pepperidge Farm commercial. "Remember when computers where intolerant of dust? Apple Remembers. :)
     
  21. grillface macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    #471
    Thank you for this detailed thread and thank you for standing up for consumers! As a fellow Australian, I am very interested to hear what comes of your endeavors. I'm so thankful of our consumer protection laws.
     
  22. curlygiraffe macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2018
    #472
    I bought a 13" 2018 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar around a week ago. I've used it only in my apartment, at my desk and in bed.

    This is my first MacBook since I first bought an MBA in 2012 or 2013, and it's a pretty big letdown. The keyboard is not particularly pleasant to use for writing for any length of time, but I could live with that. The problem is that my 'r' key is already affected by the sticky key issue. Key presses in the bottom left corner of the key are not registering. Of course the keyboard is still usable if I take care to press the centre of the key, but this is not what I expect from a $2000+ laptop after a week of light use.

    So much for the fabled apple build quality... I have an appointment at the Genius Bar on Tuesday, where I expect I'll be told there's nothing they can do.

    mindfulmac -- I'm an Australian lawyer and you can be sure I don't intend to go quietly if Apple isn't willing to assist...
     
  23. navaira macrumors 68040

    navaira

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Location:
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    #473
    Mine is going back again. The E key either registers, or doesn't at all, or registers twice. Sometimes I have to literally slam it a few times until I get the result. Unshaky helps with I, O, and R, but this is not really how I want to use a €2489 laptop.

    Meanwhile, the 2016 rMB keeps working as it should, no keyboard problems there...

    (This post required thre – oh, four typo corrections.)
     
  24. macintoshmac macrumors 68030

    macintoshmac

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    #474
    So, essentially, the 2018 keys are still a lottery more than the pre-2015 versions. Sad.
     
  25. Roadstar macrumors 65816

    Roadstar

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    #475
    It's sad and I'm now even more worried about Apple ruining the rumored MacBook Air successor with this keyboard.
     

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