They keys won't just become sticky on their own - those sticky keys are the result of possible warping of something in the keyboard structure due to repeated heating and cooling during the operation of the laptop.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
- Thread starter Lastgreen
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
They keys won't just become sticky on their own - those sticky keys are the result of possible warping of something in the keyboard structure due to repeated heating and cooling during the operation of the laptop.
Oh I see. Thanks.They keys won't just become sticky on their own - those sticky keys are the result of possible warping of something in the keyboard structure due to repeated heating and cooling during the operation of the laptop.
This is incredible. I am on my third MBP 2018. I'm on a writer retreat, writing and editing for 8-12 hours a day. This laptop was purchased on September 17. It seems like with each day another key develops issues. It's the best out of three, for what it's worth, because no key gets stuck requiring me to mash it, but today alone Unshaky registered 70 double presses on the following keys: E, A, I, and space bar. Three days before it was just E. Then the space bar. I do feel that the heat might have something to do with it. I don't hit the keys hard, except when D got stuck on my previous MBP 2018. But I am starting to want to hit them hard whilst yelling obscenities...
(I just apparently typed "jusst" and "sspace bar"...)
If I can't find a hackintoshable laptop with a good trackpad I might be moving to Windows 10. I'd rather bite my head off and eat it, but I can't work with a laptop that cost €2489 and its keyboard lasts me two weeks before needing replacement. I quite fancy Matebook X Pro... I might be frequenting the "alternatives to macOS" forum soon.
SIGH. *bumps up Mac Fan Control*
(I just apparently typed "jusst" and "sspace bar"...)
If I can't find a hackintoshable laptop with a good trackpad I might be moving to Windows 10. I'd rather bite my head off and eat it, but I can't work with a laptop that cost €2489 and its keyboard lasts me two weeks before needing replacement. I quite fancy Matebook X Pro... I might be frequenting the "alternatives to macOS" forum soon.
SIGH. *bumps up Mac Fan Control*
This thread is depressing. I just don’t know how I can justify replacing my perfectly functioning 2014 MBA with the current generation of MBP or.....for that matter the rMB. Maybe the anticipated October event will bring better products, but I doubt it. Apple is committed to this keyboard and the thinner-is-better aesthetic, so heat related problems are likely to continue.
I understand that building a great laptop is difficult. You have all of the accessories of a desktop rig in a compact package that must be durable enough to carry about. As Apple focus more on iOS and iOS devices, which make up most of their profits, perhaps they have lost their ability to build truely gresat laptops.....I just don’t know.
As iPads get more and more powerful, a Mac Desktop + iPad combo starts looking more and more attractive. Let’s hope we get an updated Mac Mini this fall.
Of course, if you need MacOS everywhere you go, this will not work for you, but for many committed to the Apple ecosystem, it might be a better option than the current breed of Apple laptops.
I understand that building a great laptop is difficult. You have all of the accessories of a desktop rig in a compact package that must be durable enough to carry about. As Apple focus more on iOS and iOS devices, which make up most of their profits, perhaps they have lost their ability to build truely gresat laptops.....I just don’t know.
As iPads get more and more powerful, a Mac Desktop + iPad combo starts looking more and more attractive. Let’s hope we get an updated Mac Mini this fall.
Of course, if you need MacOS everywhere you go, this will not work for you, but for many committed to the Apple ecosystem, it might be a better option than the current breed of Apple laptops.
I can't write on an iPad or take the desktop along *sigh* I'd get a Chromebook again if Scrivener worked on it. I do hate Apple's direction at the moment. I am like PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY, and Ive is like THINNER! YEAH GIVE US THE MONEY! THIIIIN!!! This laptop was supposed to replace my Hackintosh, now I am glad I haven't sold the Hac yet.
I'm really starting to think this is Apple's way of proving macOS is no longer necessary and we all only need iOS.
I'm really starting to think this is Apple's way of proving macOS is no longer necessary and we all only need iOS.
Yeah absolutely. If I were you I'd jump ship as well. Three laptops in such a short period I would require a full refund and move to something else. As three failures in such short order is insane.
I can't write on an iPad or take the desktop along *sigh* I'd get a Chromebook again if Scrivener worked on it. I do hate Apple's direction at the moment. I am like PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY, and Ive is like THINNER! YEAH GIVE US THE MONEY! THIIIIN!!! This laptop was supposed to replace my Hackintosh, now I am glad I haven't sold the Hac yet.
I'm really starting to think this is Apple's way of proving macOS is no longer necessary and we all only need iOS.
I get it. Some folks really need a laptop to be productive when away from home/office. I can generally get things done on my iPad when away from my computer, or I just wait until I am back at my desk (home office) if there is some heavy lifting to do. This doesn’t work for everyone.
I will say that I have been surprised how much I can get done on an iPad. The key is to find the apps that fit your workflow. It helps to use the latest gestures and the newer iOS productivity features too. Again, YMMV.
BTW - it is a total bummer that you had to return the MBP three times. That just shouldn’t happen.
I feel for you man. I went through 3 myself. I miss the days when you knew you could just open the box and enjoy the next 5 years problem free. Now it is more like "damn, I hope if something goes wrong it happens within the first 14 days."
I just completed replacement of my keyboard at no cost from apple. I had a 2016 Macbook pro 15 inch well spec'ed. The new keyboard seems to be 'Clickier' like I feel as if it goes down slightly more although I could be crazy. But hey at least I got a new battery out of it:
Hi, I'm also having this issue, though, after having it for some days on W key it disappeared by itself. Even playing quake champions in bootcamp for 2 hours didn't help me to reproduce it (constantly pressing w of course)I can't write on an iPad or take the desktop along *sigh* I'd get a Chromebook again if Scrivener worked on it. I do hate Apple's direction at the moment. I am like PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY, and Ive is like THINNER! YEAH GIVE US THE MONEY! THIIIIN!!! This laptop was supposed to replace my Hackintosh, now I am glad I haven't sold the Hac yet.
I'm really starting to think this is Apple's way of proving macOS is no longer necessary and we all only need iOS.
though, also, may I ask you (not to do your business) how does it happen that it heats up as much just by working it writing app? (word, pages, whatever else) idk how much load does ms word put on the laptop but pages was super light on cpu when i've used it.
p.s. mine is 15" 2018 as well
I seriously don't know what happens. What I do notice is that the affected keys seem to be the ones I use the most, currently *checks Unshaky* E, A, I, O, R, and space bar. So that might be it perhaps? Maybe others just don't type eight hours a day And no, I don't smash the keys, I find this keyboard super comfortable without needing to do so. Some people mentioned heat, I thought it might also be the explanation, but then what heats up under E, R (next to each other), I, O (next to each other), A (sort of near E), and space bar (not near any of them)...? I set Macs Fan Control to cool the laptop more than sensors would suggest, but I don't see much difference. It doesn't heat up much, I just thought perhaps something needs help, as my fans sometimes slow down to zero. (Not just this MBP, the previous two did it too.)
And no, I don't smash the keys, I find this keyboard super comfortable without needing to do so. Some people mentioned heat, I thought it might also be the explanation, but then what heats up under E, R (next to each other), I, O (next to each other), A (sort of near E), and space bar (not near any of them)...? I set Macs Fan Control to cool the laptop more than sensors would suggest, but I don't see much difference. It doesn't heat up much, I just thought perhaps something needs help, as my fans sometimes slow down to zero. (Not just this MBP, the previous two did it too.)
I had similar problem with my old 2016 mbp and keyboard was replaced several times until i've got new 2018 model for free. Anyway, so far it's only 2 weeks old and with my usage with older model it was happening after 2-3 months circa. what i can suggest to you is to get it replaced again (top case assembly or entire macbook) and then apple mac fan control left fan on core 1 sensor and right fan on gpu PECI if u have 15" model. set the curve to start from 50 to 80 max. It'll work higher 85% of a time. also there was another app, more precise fan controller, atm I don't remember the name but you get the point, first get it replaced/repairedI seriously don't know what happens. What I do notice is that the affected keys seem to be the ones I use the most, currently *checks Unshaky* E, A, I, O, R, and space bar. So that might be it perhaps? Maybe others just don't type eight hours a day
I've got the 13". Already spoke with the reseller's customer service, they're happy to replace it AGAIN, they said they'll probably talk to Apple about this, I'm not the only one with the exact same problem.
...
I'm also looking at Spectre 13, XPS 13, and Matebook X Pro... the Matebook probably won't be my choice because it can't be Hackintoshed, XPS 13 2018 has the wifi soldered, but Spectre 13 looks promising, even though I think it's quite ugly...
In process of typing those two short paragraphs Unshaky caught another two "extra" keypresses.
well for sure it's not normal behaviour
what I can tell you is to try that tip with new replaced model and see how it goes until a refresh or something because this thing cannot go like that forever.
I remember reading about people's problems with 1nd and 2nd gen keyboards and thinking "wow, I have no problems at all, I'm lucky I guess". And now it's almost like karma woke up and went "oh hang on, he's overdue for some broken keyboards!" I don't see many people so far complaining about the 3rd gen, yet I had three laptops in a row with this problem.well for sure it's not normal behaviour
I wonder if there's a possibility it's limited to one particular model, as people had kernel panics (not here), crackling speakers (not here), coil whine (not here). I had three Space Grey i5/16/512 machines all bought in the Netherlands. I have no idea whether Apple have different suppliers for different countries...
Everyone is supplied from china, dont worry xD though, i’ve had both kernel panjcs and audio issues, kernels are gone and audio is almost fixed appearing randomly once an hour or so... so that’s true, this 2018 is kinda special, from one side its amazing from another - too much pain for some “pro” users which it’s marketed to...
no Spectre 13...i bought late 2017 model...and has flex to the bottom case, so careful , also it heats very hard...harder than my Mbp..also a lot drivers issues and some power up problems
I was potentially looking to purchase the rumoured new MacBook(Air) that is due to show itself this October. But having already been a victim of the 2016 keyboard failure, if 2018 isn't much better I'll have to altogether skip it and get one of the new Whiskey Lake W10 laptops instead.
[doublepost=1538573916][/doublepost]
I'd look at upcoming Whiskey Lake models coming out later this month/November, in particular the Lenovo S730 and the Whiskeylake version of the Asus Zenbook 13/14/15 and Zenbook S (UX391FA, not UX391UA). The new chips have integrated WiFi controllers.
Last edited:
That Lenovo looks incredible! Wonder how the trackpad is on it. And I seriously hope they didn't go for some sort of new experimental keyboard to make it 0.4 mm thinner...
I'm also now waiting for that AirMaxSPlusXR. But I wish the MBP2018 would function like it should, I wanted it to be my only machine. *sigh*
Last edited:
The irony.
What has Apple come down to... in terms of keyboards.
Seriously..
This is on par with just being happy with your car actually starting every Monday morning.
Can the bar get any lower here?
The keyboard should be so reliable you literally never have to think about it - ever - for any reason.
(like the one on my 2015 15" is...)
Last edited:
The irony.
What has Apple come down to... in terms of keyboards.
Well, you have to at least take a little comfort in a report of 10 days without failure right?
Or the one on my 2011 17” I recently sold. Okay sure, I was constantly worried about a GPU failure, but the keyboard was the least of my worries
Hi everyone, time to post an update.
I've only had about one day a week (at most) to work on my case right now, due to my busy work life.
So, I just work on this when I can but within a reasonable amount of time (with whoever I'm dealing with at the time), which means I'm the right man for this fight - I'm disciplined. I have all the rage inside me as ever, and yet the ability to bottle it up and to stow it away for another day.
I REALLY am in the mood for demonstrating the defect and my consumer rage on TV, and exposing Apple about #KeyboardGate (and in fact their ENTIRE corporate culture with all their #gates and how Apple think the normal rules don't apply to them vs. any other manufacturer), as a result of this experience. I have a lot of media contacts after being featured on ABC TV and a lot of other nat/int media on two other stories on me last year, and I definitely think I have media-worthy material for this story too.
My only problem (for how much I can achieve with this) is time. (Well, and money.)
Anyway. Here's summary for the current status.
Fair Trading NSW was a #FAIL (on their part). Here's the case worker's response:
I couldn't believe how incompetent this was. But it may be worse than incompetence - When phoning me initially, before she then phoned apple, the FT lady mentioned three Apple Executive Relations staff by name (as if they were the regulars she rings up ALL THE TIME). Now you tell me - do you think Apple haven't schmoozed up to Fair Trading case workers if the regular staffer knows their relations people BY NAME?
So, I've sent a feedback complaint right back to Fair Trading to exhaust this supposedly 'fair' dispute resolution process available to the consumer, one more time, before going onto NCAT (if I must):
I said in my feedback submission form:
What went wrong?:
My consumer complaint was not handled adequately. Fair Trading failed to show that the nature and content of my situation (of seeking compensation for lost time and productivity) was conveyed to the business with whom I have my dispute, and failed to represent my situation in its response letter dated 21 September 2018. As such, my situation has been misrepresented by Fair Trading in this letter, and, to my knowledge, my complaint insufficiently handled as it relates to contacting the business (Apple Pty Limited) itself.
How can we help?:
I'd like Fair Trading to reprocess my Consumer Complaint (with no changes required to my submission), and show that the nature of my situation has been fairly represented to the business so that I know I've been given a fair go at having my dispute communicated to the business from Fair Trading. I'd like Fair Trading to acknowledge in writing that my consumer complaint is about consumer mistreatment and loss and damage caused to the consumer by Apple, and not about the reasonable remedy option that they are finally offering me now.
And I attached to it this PDF reply from myself:
At the Tribunal (i.e. if Apple still doesn't settle with me even after I see that FT have fairly represented my complaint to them), I really have more than enough dirt and proof on Apple to nail them easily in my request for this pittance $1500 worth of compensational value in what I'm asking from them (an upgraded 2018 model with included AppleCare+). They're fighting based on principle (not value), and so am I.
Again, I can go the media, so that's probably my best weapon to effect any change (on a larger scale than just sharing my success on this thread), but also, if I can find a lawyer or firm willing to do 'No Win No Fee' or Pro Bono (maybe a firm who have an interest in bringing Apple to account / have an axe to grind with them), or a consumer rights non-profit, I could take my case bigger which would be great because then we can do more to hold Apple to account.
Anyone know anyone?
Does a 'class action lawsuit' even exist as a thing in Australia? (I listen to the 'This Week in Law' podcast on my iPhone, so I know more about US law than I do Australian).
A RECALL - which can be voluntary BTW, not forced, meaning that customers can simply go in and ask for a refund or replacement with no questions asked but it's not that Apple's FORCED to contact consumers proactively like when it's a safety issue - is what always was and still is needed for this awful keyboard dust defect. RIGHT NOW, Apple is STILL repairing thousands of people's affected laptops by simply refitting a DEFECTIVE COMPONENT which will just fail again and again which is total lunacy and against consumer law!
Oh and I got written proof of this the other day (shocked I could get it so easily):
I'll see how I go with FT replying to me within the next 7 days, but next week when I have time for my case, if I have nothing else better to do I may contact a high up ABC TV producer who featured me on 7.30 Report last year and see if ABC is interested in doing a major exposé on Apple and their notorious reputation for mistreating consumers when they stuff up and try to pretend the issues don't exist. It could be an hour long TV special. Oh, do we have the material:
I've only had about one day a week (at most) to work on my case right now, due to my busy work life.
So, I just work on this when I can but within a reasonable amount of time (with whoever I'm dealing with at the time), which means I'm the right man for this fight - I'm disciplined. I have all the rage inside me as ever, and yet the ability to bottle it up and to stow it away for another day.
I REALLY am in the mood for demonstrating the defect and my consumer rage on TV, and exposing Apple about #KeyboardGate (and in fact their ENTIRE corporate culture with all their #gates and how Apple think the normal rules don't apply to them vs. any other manufacturer), as a result of this experience. I have a lot of media contacts after being featured on ABC TV and a lot of other nat/int media on two other stories on me last year, and I definitely think I have media-worthy material for this story too.
My only problem (for how much I can achieve with this) is time. (Well, and money.)
Anyway. Here's summary for the current status.
Fair Trading NSW was a #FAIL (on their part). Here's the case worker's response:
I couldn't believe how incompetent this was. But it may be worse than incompetence - When phoning me initially, before she then phoned apple, the FT lady mentioned three Apple Executive Relations staff by name (as if they were the regulars she rings up ALL THE TIME). Now you tell me - do you think Apple haven't schmoozed up to Fair Trading case workers if the regular staffer knows their relations people BY NAME?
So, I've sent a feedback complaint right back to Fair Trading to exhaust this supposedly 'fair' dispute resolution process available to the consumer, one more time, before going onto NCAT (if I must):
I said in my feedback submission form:
What went wrong?:
My consumer complaint was not handled adequately. Fair Trading failed to show that the nature and content of my situation (of seeking compensation for lost time and productivity) was conveyed to the business with whom I have my dispute, and failed to represent my situation in its response letter dated 21 September 2018. As such, my situation has been misrepresented by Fair Trading in this letter, and, to my knowledge, my complaint insufficiently handled as it relates to contacting the business (Apple Pty Limited) itself.
How can we help?:
I'd like Fair Trading to reprocess my Consumer Complaint (with no changes required to my submission), and show that the nature of my situation has been fairly represented to the business so that I know I've been given a fair go at having my dispute communicated to the business from Fair Trading. I'd like Fair Trading to acknowledge in writing that my consumer complaint is about consumer mistreatment and loss and damage caused to the consumer by Apple, and not about the reasonable remedy option that they are finally offering me now.
And I attached to it this PDF reply from myself:
At the Tribunal (i.e. if Apple still doesn't settle with me even after I see that FT have fairly represented my complaint to them), I really have more than enough dirt and proof on Apple to nail them easily in my request for this pittance $1500 worth of compensational value in what I'm asking from them (an upgraded 2018 model with included AppleCare+). They're fighting based on principle (not value), and so am I.
Again, I can go the media, so that's probably my best weapon to effect any change (on a larger scale than just sharing my success on this thread), but also, if I can find a lawyer or firm willing to do 'No Win No Fee' or Pro Bono (maybe a firm who have an interest in bringing Apple to account / have an axe to grind with them), or a consumer rights non-profit, I could take my case bigger which would be great because then we can do more to hold Apple to account.
Anyone know anyone?
Does a 'class action lawsuit' even exist as a thing in Australia? (I listen to the 'This Week in Law' podcast on my iPhone, so I know more about US law than I do Australian
).A RECALL - which can be voluntary BTW, not forced, meaning that customers can simply go in and ask for a refund or replacement with no questions asked but it's not that Apple's FORCED to contact consumers proactively like when it's a safety issue - is what always was and still is needed for this awful keyboard dust defect. RIGHT NOW, Apple is STILL repairing thousands of people's affected laptops by simply refitting a DEFECTIVE COMPONENT which will just fail again and again which is total lunacy and against consumer law!
Oh and I got written proof of this the other day (shocked I could get it so easily):
I'll see how I go with FT replying to me within the next 7 days, but next week when I have time for my case, if I have nothing else better to do I may contact a high up ABC TV producer who featured me on 7.30 Report last year and see if ABC is interested in doing a major exposé on Apple and their notorious reputation for mistreating consumers when they stuff up and try to pretend the issues don't exist. It could be an hour long TV special. Oh, do we have the material:
Problem being is your using the computer, not just admiring it from a distance. Personally I fear to purchase a MBP now as it would get hammered and being stuck in Apple's repair merry-go-round absolutely does not appeal for a split second with a $3K-$4K notebook.
I switched to W10 as I simply don't buy into Apple's current Mac line up, it's just getting worse. Same I have to deliver and nor am I interested in poor design decisions that compromise reliability, usability & performance all of which the latest MBP exemplifies.
Do I love W10? No, equally right now the OS & it's hardware to coin a phrase "Just Works" and that to me is more important. That's what pays, as opposed to looking good with your Latte Macchiato...
Q-6
Last edited: