I surely hope you are correct, but the new Air, with a supposedly all new design, also deploys a Butterfly gen 3. I tried it in store, it feels slightly different than the MBP which but it is still dubbed the same gen 3. This looks to me that Apple is doubling down instead of pulling out of this "design".I just can’t see that they don’t eventually dump the butterfly keyboard - it must be costing them a fortune, both in replacements and goodwill! With the 2020 redesign of the MacBook Pro I see them going one of two ways - a ground up redesign of the keyboard that’s called ‘gen 4 butterfly’ or similar to save face, or they go to a touchscreen design with haptic feedback. The former would be the best way out of this for everyone, but I unfortunately feel the latter is more likely
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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
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I just can’t see that they don’t eventually dump the butterfly keyboard - it must be costing them a fortune, both in replacements and goodwill! With the 2020 redesign of the MacBook Pro I see them going one of two ways - a ground up redesign of the keyboard that’s called ‘gen 4 butterfly’ or similar to save face, or they go to a touchscreen design with haptic feedback. The former would be the best way out of this for everyone, but I unfortunately feel the latter is more likely
I think the physical keyboard is safe for the near future, they will probably drop the headphone jack first
I love this idea that they're making a super light, super slim computer, but don't you dare take it anywhere, because dust might break it.
At this point, I think what keeps us all around is mainly Stockholm Syndrome.
Just started to experience my 'o' key and spacebar double pressing intermittently ~3 months in on a 2018 MacBook Pro 13". Has any one had any experience with getting a refund this late into the purchase in the uk? Considering swapping to a Mac mini.
I doubt you would get a refund, only a repair. After 3 repairs, maybe a replacement/refund could be on the table, but at this stage, it's very very unlikely.
Stories like these is what stops me from committing to another butterfly keyboard machine.
The other day I read someone here describe it as an "abusive relationship". I almost laughed out loud, but the sadness kicked in soon enough to stop that from happening.
Reading into it some more, I may be able to get my credit card company to help in issuing a refund. I have a genius bar appointment booked for Friday, so I will take it in to them and see what they say.
Has anyone had a replacement and found it to actually fix the problem fully and it have not come back? Part of me is hoping that because it seems like the same keys for most people that it's a bad batch kind of thing (I realise this is unlikely but one can hope).
"It just works" has become "It doesn't work" - summaries my experience since jumping on the Apple bandwagon ~6 years ago. It's gone noticeably worse the last 3 years (mainly on the software front, but also various hardware issues on various products - I think only my Apple Watch has given me very little to complain about).
It annoys me more because I think Apple have it far easier to make a product that "Just works", due to controlling the software and the hardware compared to say Samsung or Microsoft. Yet I have more issues with Apple products than premium Android/Window machines.
I accepted the trade off of having less flexibility/option and the quirks of the walled garden for things to "just work", if it doesn't anymore, I may as well leave.
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I have read stories of people getting it replaced for the issue to come back. The keyboard going wrong isn't a manufacturing defect, but a design issue so there is nothing to guarantee it not happening again. There are some who can go maybe a year or 3 years and experience no issues, while another person may get the same issue multiple times. I don't know the exact reason other than maybe the two users use the machine differently - or one has a higher tolerance of the issue. I read a review not long ago where someone as desperately running around looking for compressed air to fix his keyboard - even in Apple stores they advice people to do this or do it for you to fix the issue.
My past experience has been great, my 2012 MacBook Pro non retina worked without issue up until I sold it in July to get this machine and my 6S is still going strong for the 3 or so years that I have had that
My MacBook Pro 2014 and iPhone 4S were pretty flawless for me - they are the products which made me invest a lot into Apple. I also had an iPod Mini from like a decade ago
.The iPhone 6/6S/7/x and the MacBook 12"/nTB from 2016/17 have not been so great for me.
There's already a handful of cases of failed 3rd gen keyboards. Besides, I'm pretty sure "Apple persons" are not really reliable sources when it comes to engineering.
Just tell them why you asked
After 3-4 topcase replacements:
1. The computer has been disassembled and reassembled that many times. They scratch the case, they scratch the display (at least in my case), misalign the hinge so it creeks. As everybody most probably knows by now - Apple devices are not meant to be opened and fixed. A new device will remedy all of that.
2. Enough time will have elapsed that there will be a newer model out, most probably with a revised keyboard (which unfortunately is still garbage).
Agree...
There are plenty of reasons to want a new machine at some point over just getting the KB replaced.. I was mainly just curious how many KB replacements it takes before a new machine / refund is offered and that's been answered...
After 4 of em, I'd probably push for a refund though.....
I was just going to mention –
– that the 3rd gen keyboard has been in the market since July and some people including me managed to go through four faulty machines in that time...
I got pretty much the same reply when I emailed Tim Cook. They called back, took all of the info including the receipts for all of the machines that had keyboard issues. They called back about a week later and pretty much said, "gosh, don't know what to say, we haven't heard anything about KB issues on the new 2018 -- Not sure what to tell you."
I don't think that they would release the new Air with the current KB if they were working on a redesign anytime soon.
Someone recommended getting a 2017 as those are at least covered for four years under the keyboard program. Or get a 2015 mint MBP.
I am blown away that this company is not fixing this issue...or, even acknowledging it. Do other people just deal with a repeating key and not report it? It just gets worse to the point of not being able to write.
I am blown away that all 5 of my brand new 2018 MBP's have all had the same issue within a week of owning them. Always starts with the "e" and then migrates to the "T, R, D," keys.
If it helps, that was Apple's response for Gen 1 and Gen 2. Not once did they admit to the issue until a lawsuit forced them to offer a repair programme.
[doublepost=1542041476][/doublepost]I guess the issues aren't that expected seein gas Gruber warned us: https://twitter.com/gruber/status/1030523625726779394?lang=en-gb
Someone has experienced a membrane tear: https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/9kjvo7/macbook_pro_2018_new_keyboard_issue/
My iPhone 4s was working flawlessly as well, until I foolishly pushed "let me update this evening" after the unbearable nagging. Holy **** this is sounding more and more like an actual abusive relationship lol.My MacBook Pro 2014 and iPhone 4S were pretty flawless for me - they are the products which made me invest a lot into Apple. I also had an iPod Mini from like a decade ago
The iPhone 6/6S/7/x and the MacBook 12"/nTB from 2016/17 have not been so great for me.
Quite possibly both together in 2020 on the "new, thinnest MBP ever!"
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Apple have been very tenacious about this design - presumably as it's less costly than admitting a flaw, completely redesigning the MBP and probably opening themselves up to litigation from people who have bought 2016-18 MBPs. Surely enough eventually has to be enough though? When they have the opportunity to properly fix it without losing face in 2020 I just feel like they'd be stupid not to take it...
Definitely not. I'm pretty sure they really believed the 3rd gen fixed all problems. But I also wonder if the Air will do better – it looks like for most people the same keys develop issues on MBPs ("E" and space), perhaps Air's different internals will make a difference?
You guys better grab a refurb 2015 as they are now available. They got the base 2015 15" model for $1699 and the upgraded 2.8 model with a 512GB SSD for $2119.
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...-22ghz-quad-core-intel-i7-with-retina-display
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...-22ghz-quad-core-intel-i7-with-retina-display
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That's interesting. I almost swapped my 4th faulty MBP for the new air and at the last second decided to try another MBP thinking if they have the same keyboard why sacrifice what I really want which is the MBP. Need to search around a bit and see if anyone has reported issues with the new Air KB.
I just can’t see that they don’t eventually dump the butterfly keyboard - it must be costing them a fortune, both in replacements and goodwill! With the 2020 redesign of the MacBook Pro I see them going one of two ways - a ground up redesign of the keyboard that’s called ‘gen 4 butterfly’ or similar to save face, or they go to a touchscreen design with haptic feedback. The former would be the best way out of this for everyone, but I unfortunately feel the latter is more likely
I think they are moving towards a touchscreen keyboard. The butterfly switches were a transitionary phase to ease us into the touchscreen keyboard. The butterfly keyboard's lack of gaps between keys make it feel a bit more like a continuous surface like a touchscreen. And the butterfly keyboard features shorter key travel to help transition us to a keyboard with keys that don't travel at all.
Apple is working on a foldable MicroLED display. In the future, a laptop may just be a tablet in a half-folded keyboard mode. Fold your tablet into the shape of a laptop and below the hinge turns into a keyboard. Maybe it won't be so bad and won't give us all arthritis or something. It would be nice to have a keyboard that's easier to clean.
Touch screen keyboard? I would rather deal with this joke of butterfly keyboards, then even consider getting a touch screen keyboard
I...have one like that now, only the keyboard is real
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Wait 2-3 weeks, it's only out for six days so far
I think spending 2k on a 3 year old computer is more then I'm willing to spend on old technology.