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i hope all of them won't and can't have keyboard problems.
what is the T2 chip issue?

I'm alternatively looking at the surface laptop 2 and the xps 13 but would hate to leave the apple ecosystem

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2018-macbook-pros-crashing-with-bridge-os-error.2128976/

More endless fun from Tim & Co

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Not to scare you but have you read this thread ? It documents all the T2 issues MacRumors members have been encountering in the Apple 2018 Macbook Pro.

In all fairness though, Apple updates have seemed to greatly reduce the number of T2 faults although they are still present.

It's only me but I would rather purchase a product with documented failures (keyboard) rather than unknown failures (T2). That's why I recently purchased a 2017 MacBook Pro. It doesn't have a T2 chip but it has the butterfly keyboard (2016-2018) that has been causing problems.

We should be dealing with either IMHO. All mass produced items have failure rates, however Apple is really pushing it these days. Making a product less useable, more unreliable and hiking the price, smart move well for Apple anyway...

Q-6
 
Not to scare you but have you read this thread ? It documents all the T2 issues MacRumors members have been encountering in the Apple 2018 Macbook Pro.

In all fairness though, Apple updates have seemed to greatly reduce the number of T2 faults although they are still present.

It's only me but I would rather purchase a product with documented failures (keyboard) rather than unknown failures (T2). That's why I recently purchased a 2017 MacBook Pro. It doesn't have a T2 chip but it has the butterfly keyboard (2016-2018) that has been causing problems.
I'm getting a 2017 13inch TB for about 300$ cheaper but my concern is that it doesn't have the butterfly 3rd ten keyboard and no quad core.

im not understanding the T2 problem looks more of a software issue to me which can be fixed via update
 
im not understanding the T2 problem looks more of a software issue to me which can be fixed via update

That's the basic problem. Apple is not giving us any information on the T2 problem let alone acknowledging the problem.

My opinion (along with many other people here) is that it is a hardware issue with the T2 chip (either design or fabrication) and that Apple is attempting to correct the problems in software / firmware. I'm sure in the end that Apple will eliminate most of the errors via software / firmware but I can't see them fixing all the errors that way.

At least with the keyboard, I know what to expect. With the T2 error, I have no idea.
 
From what I keep reading, there is no problem with the keyboard, and those of us that have experienced problems with the keyboard simply whine too much and our expectations are too high.

Did I get that right?

/s

That sounds about right, some users are just too dumb to use the keyboard correctly instead of banning on keys and keep secretly eating over the keyboard until it malfunctions.
 
That's the basic problem. Apple is not giving us any information on the T2 problem let alone acknowledging the problem.

My opinion (along with many other people here) is that it is a hardware issue with the T2 chip (either design or fabrication) and that Apple is attempting to correct the problems in software / firmware. I'm sure in the end that Apple will eliminate most of the errors via software / firmware but I can't see them fixing all the errors that way.

At least with the keyboard, I know what to expect. With the T2 error, I have no idea.

Clearly a problem and Apple's silence on such matters is as ever less than reassuring, and simply comes off as arrogant. Seems to be just luck of the drawer if you get a good MBP without issues, which is absolutely unacceptable as these notebooks are portrayed, at the very least alluded to be high-end machines capable of serious professional workloads.

To me right now Apple is literally driving professional users away, personally never seen so many drop the platform as for some it's fast becoming a liability. Personally I wont purchase a Mac now as at $4,250 for the MBP I don't expect such nonsense. Yes some units irrespective of brand will have issue, however Apple's making a habit of it and what certainly appears to be far more than just a small percentage of machines, with every spiralling issues.

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Clearly a problem and Apple's silence on such matters is as ever less than reassuring, and simply comes off as arrogant. Seems to be just luck of the drawer if you get a good MBP without issues, which is absolutely unacceptable as these notebooks are portrayed, at the very least alluded to be high-end machines capable of serious professional workloads.

To me right now Apple is literally driving professional users away, personally never seen so many drop the platform as for some it's fast becoming a liability. Personally I wont purchase a Mac now as at $4,250 for the MBP I don't expect such nonsense. Yes some units irrespective of brand will have issue, however Apple's making a habit of it and what certainly appears to be far more than just a small percentage of machines, with every spiralling issues.

Q-6

Ya' see guys?

Just more whining from users with expectations that are too high for the scratchy little startup "Apple"..

Maybe if they were a bigger and more successful company we could expect more, but being the thin margin, barely surviving, little technology company they are....what can one really expect here?

/s
 
I've been a Mac guy since '91. Got my first Mac laptop in '95. Never had one I didn't like UNTIL these new keyboards.

I bought a MBP last year and immediately had the keyboard problems. Quickly downgraded to a 2015 model.

I cannot believe they are continuing to market a laptop w/ a keyboard that will malfunction for most users. I would like to buy another one but there is no way. I'm a coder and typing is my living!
So you liked the Santa Rosa MBP's? Or didn't keep it long enough for the gpu to become junk?

Mine failed 1 month after warranty took 3 months for them to admit their gpu was just as bad as everyone else

I literally gave it away after the first repair when they messed up the optical out and could no longer burn a disc.

From the person I gave it to it lasted 7 months before the second gpu fried
 
Does anyone use a silicone keyboard cover on the MacBook pro? Did you still have the issue?

Yes.

Apple is replacing my couple-months-old 2018 MBP because of increasing keyboard issues. I suspect my use of a keyboard cover has their interest, as it reduces the chance that dust ingress is the issue. Something else is going on.

Personally I suspect it is a materials issue in the contacts: electrical variation (due to temperature changes, etc... and yes, dust ingress) that renders typical debounce firmware approaches unreliable, causing sporadic repeat keystrokes and missed keystrokes. Dell had a similar issue that they eventually addressed with a firmware update. I'd be interested in any correlation between keyboard misbehavior and MBP model... are higher-spec models more or less likely to develop the issue? If so, heat may be part of the mix.

Personally, as a fast touch-typist who writes a lot, I like the Gen 3 butterfly keyboard... when it works. But on my machine its performance has become annoyingly variable.

(Aside: Meanwhile I've ordered a high-speed Thunderbolt cable from Amazon to facilitate the transfer of my data/software/settings to the replacement unit. (The charging cable Apple provides supports only USB-2 speeds, IIRC, and they don't hold up too well with coiling and uncoiling for stowage in my briefcase.) Thunderbolt cables are a whole separate topic, and not a tidy one. Unfortunately anything with "USB" in its description is going to beget confusion, I guess. The one I ordered supports 40Gbps and 100W charging and is a convenient 2m long, but it is somehow incompatible with anything not sporting the Thunderbolt 3 label. Whatever.)

Eventually, keyboards will go away, replaced by a touch-based virtual keyboard with haptic feedback. Not sure how that'll work for me as a touch-typist, but it will also eliminate country-specific keyboard layouts and allow the machine to be waterproof. I am looking forward to it but expect it'll take a little getting-used-to.
 
Seeing as for most of the people with the MBPs the E key goes first I find it difficult to believe it's dust that causes it. Unless it's special E-dust. (E is for England!)
 
Seeing as for most of the people with the MBPs the E key goes first I find it difficult to believe it's dust that causes it. Unless it's special E-dust. (E is for England!)
I haven't checked from a teardown, but I'd guess the E key is close to a rather hot component and therefore it's the first to take damage from continuous heat expansion and cooling down.
 
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Took my MacBook Pro in about a week ago (see last post) and now today this happens.
 

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Why? Why would other companies go down that rabbit hole, when they saw apple do that very thing and annoy their customer base?

You agree that thinner is counterproductive and then try to make a point that there's a market for thinner keyboards. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't, but Apple has a lot of negative PR with its butterfly keyboards and I do think other companies are not willing to risk spending millions on a design that is not needed.

Why are so condescending with me? I'm on your side, just clutching to straws because at some point I will need to buy a new Macbook and the keyboards they have now are unacceptable to me. I wrote to a tech column of the Guardian a while back, asking: Is it likely that a company so focused on thinness one day will go back to slightly thicker machines to accommodate higher quality keyboards.

(https://www.theguardian.com/technol...4/are-there-any-laptops-with-decent-keyboards)

The answer was a resounding "no", Apple are unlikely to go back to thicker machines. So I'm holding out hope that there are developments in the keyboard industry for high quality keyboards that will be thin enough to be acceptable for Apple's stupid thinness standards... just so we can get a proper, reliable laptop again one day. No need to pick apart my argument as if you need to prove me wrong or something. I'm just a simple user who was asking a mere question for a (to me) good reason. I was just hoping that someone here in the forum had maybe heard of any new keyboard mechanisms, suitable for future redesigned Macbooks, being developed and tested right now. I thought it was a good question to ask in this thread. :(
 
Made an account here just to add to the list of issues with this keyboard.

Bought a 2018 15" MBP, essentially fully specced (i9/32GB RAM/1TB hard drive), at the beginning of November. Everything worked fine for a couple of weeks, after which I started to have a few issues mostly with the "s" key, though I would occasionally have issues with the "a," "e," and space bar keys. With some investigation, I realized that the frequency of the error occurring varied with the point of contact on the key; i.e., typically the error was quite rare when the very center of the key was pressed but become more frequent on certain sides/edges of the key. Eventually, the error became so frequent that typing with the built-in keyboard was totally unusable. I followed the "cleaning procedure" suggested by Apple with compressed air (lol) which didn't change a thing.

Went to the Apple store and got a replacement with essentially no questions asked. Simply demonstrated the error, gave them my original model, and got a brand new, identical, still-shrink-wrapped model. "Great," I thought. Problem solved. That happened <2 weeks ago.

I'm now having trouble with the space key on this new unit. I had done some preliminary research before buying this as I had heard the complaints of the butterfly keyboards on the previous models but assumed everything was taken care of. With two failed machines in a row, though, I figured it was time to do some more research. Lo and behold, others are having the same issue and I came across this thread.

As with the last unit, the error seems to occur more frequently when certain points of the space bar are pressed, but it happens frequently enough that it's quite irritating. I've installed Unshaky which seems to have largely resolved the issue as I was having problems with repeated key presses rather than not registering a key press at all, though the latter did and still does occur intermittently.

This is beyond frustrating. After having trouble with this second unit, I'm very seriously considering returning this unit and saying "**** it." I've got a fully specced 2013 15" MBP that I was using prior to this unit which still works reasonably well, though there are several issues with it (issue with the screen coating that I didn't realize there was a repair program for until after the program ended, needs a replacement battery, just generally somewhat sluggish, particularly for relatively demanding computing tasks) that make me want the newer model.

I love Apple products - or at least I did. My wife converted to a MBP after my experience with the 2013 model, which she loves. I pre-ordered the iPhone X when it came out last year. I've got an iPad Pro. And I'm all in on the peripherals, too, from a Time Capsule to AirPods. In general, my experience with Apple products as been outstanding, and I far and away prefer macOS over Windows.

But this is leaving a very nasty taste in my mouth. I didn't spend $4k on a laptop which is horribly overpriced for the hardware - something that I do willingly because I want to use macOS and generally like the quality of Apple hardware - to have basic problems with something as fundamental as the freakin' keyboard.

I'm going to give this unit a couple of weeks to see how it goes. If anything gets worse or other keys become involved, I guess it's back to the Apple store I go for another replacement.
 
This is just bizzare. Any other manufacturer would be forced to recall all of these devices. I really don't understand what is Apple's long-game here. After 2016-2017 fiasco they put a condom on the keyboard and call it a day. After numerous complaints that this isn't working (on 2018 MBPs) they launch the new Air with exactly the same keyboard. So now every single laptop they produce has a ticking bomb that is the keyboard.

Sure there was bendgate, where exactly the same design goals (thinner, thinner) made problems in the real world. But they fixed this and now iPhones are a bit thicker and virtually impossible to bend.

It's just sad really. If you want a new macOS laptop in 2019, you are out of options. Weird enough the closest thing is mac mini with an iPad and LumaFusion. :)
 
I'm getting a 2017 13inch TB for about 300$ cheaper but my concern is that it doesn't have the butterfly 3rd ten keyboard and no quad core.

im not understanding the T2 problem looks more of a software issue to me which can be fixed via update
I have the 2017 MacBook pro 13 and my keyboard is fine. I have had 0 problems with it. And it has a 4 year keyboard warranty. The 3.1ghz dual core is plenty for me.
 
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This is just bizzare. Any other manufacturer would be forced to recall all of these devices. I really don't understand what is Apple's long-game here. After 2016-2017 fiasco they put a condom on the keyboard and call it a day. After numerous complaints that this isn't working (on 2018 MBPs) they launch the new Air with exactly the same keyboard. So now every single laptop they produce has a ticking bomb that is the keyboard.

Exactly, at this stage recalling them would actually be applauded by me and I think by a lot of people, given the fact that it's an engineering/hardware fault. It has (in the case of the 3rd gen keyboards) nothing to do with debris. Simple as that. I can still return mine if I do it before this friday, but despite the fact that I'm experiencing the issue now and then, and despite the fact that it's so widespread, I still am not sure whether I should return it. I can't believe I'm saying this but with Unshaky it has been more than workable. And yes, using a workaround like that should never be acceptable in this price range but it does work and there's simply no other laptop that comes close to what I want :(:(. WHY are they doing this to us
 
Why are so condescending with me?
I wasn't trying to be condescending, I just don't see the logic. There's little you can do to improve on a keyboard outside of changing the switch types, and in a sense that's what apple did. Apple designed a keyboard no one was looking for, which reduced key travel, and making it much louder, and also making it more susceptible to failure due to the smallest amount dust/debris. They spend even more money improving and hopefully protecting it, for what? A few millimeters, and even then that's hampered the ability to cool the laptop with these hotter running CPUs. I just don't see the logic in the Dells and Lenovos, developing a new type of keyboard to compete when their existing keyboards are so much better then Apple's as it is.

Just my $.02
 
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Exactly, at this stage recalling them would actually be applauded by me and I think by a lot of people, given the fact that it's an engineering/hardware fault.
Recalling them to exchange the keyboard with... what exactly?

We're 2+ years into this issue, and all evidence suggests that they couldn't come up with a keyboard mechanism design that is at the same time reliable and thin enough to fit into the current MB/MBA/MBP chassis. They don't have one. So all they can do is to implement patchwork solutions (V3) and keep on replacing (repair program) while waiting for the next redesign.
 
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Seeing as for most of the people with the MBPs the E key goes first I find it difficult to believe it's dust that causes it. Unless it's special E-dust. (E is for England!)

I seriously doubt it has much to do with dust. It's a poor design simple as that, and that's the very last thing Apple will ever admit to more the shame. I have far more respect for those that try and fail, yet have the humility to say why and move forward with better more advanced designs built on lessons learnt, meanwhile at Apple...

Reality is the hard earned credibility of the Mac that took decades to build is fast being flushed away by greed and short-termism...

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Recalling them to exchange the keyboard with... what exactly?

We're 2+ years into this issue, and all evidence suggests that they couldn't come up with a keyboard mechanism design that is at the same time reliable and thin enough to fit into the current MB/MBA/MBP chassis. They don't have one. So all they can do is to implement patchwork solutions (V3) and keep on replacing (repair program) while waiting for the next redesign.

Apple at this point is either; incapable, just doesn't care and only sees it's customers a sheep with money on hand that will accept any garbage it sees fit to churns out. At this point in time Apple is simply not worthy of my custom, as I too can be an arrogant bastard...

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Recalling them to exchange the keyboard with... what exactly?

We're 2+ years into this issue, and all evidence suggests that they couldn't come up with a keyboard mechanism design that is at the same time reliable and thin enough to fit into the current MB/MBA/MBP chassis. They don't have one. So all they can do is to implement patchwork solutions (V3) and keep on replacing (repair program) while waiting for the next redesign.


1. Take the 2015 bottomcase.
2. Change the port layout to 4xUSB-C.
3. Take the 2015 topcase with the old (great, better, working... whatever) keyboard, make the trackpad hole larger.
4. Use the 2016 display.
5. Use the 2018 logic board.
6. Use 2015 batteries (larger capacity).
7. Use the Macbook Air layout (fingerprint reader + normal keys).

Doesn't seem like something a (ex) trillion $ company couldn't do with all their resources.
 
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