Gen 3 butterfly keyboard

[Plutonius]

The deal-breaker for me, by far, is the USB Type-C connectivity. I don't care that they have USB Type-C; in and of itself, it's an upgrade. But they took away EVERY other port. So if somebody gives you a USB stick to copy some files... you need a dongle. If you go to a conference room to play a video via HDMI... you need a dongle. EVERYTHING needs a dongle. To use the same DisplayPort monitor I used before, I need a new cable. I've NEVER had such a poor laptop experience. My laptop bag is FULL of stupid little dongles and adapters. If I want to charge my iPhone, it's one cable, if I want to attach it to my laptop, it's a different cable, or a dongle... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU OWN can be connected to this laptop unless you buy a dongle. That's not so bad, except that I'm a very mobile person; I present in conference rooms, at customers' sites, etc... and carrying all the stupid cables and plugging one thing into another is just stupid. Had I known how inconvenient this laptop is, I would not have accepted it.

I highly recommend getting a Satechi. It's very small, plugs into the side, and gives you the missing ports.

The only complaint that I have is that Apple should have included one with the purchase of each MacBook Pro.

 

[unglued]

reading all the comments here and the fact that everyone is complaining about the 2018 keyboards it makes me feel like the failure rate is 70-80%.
is there anyone here who doesn't have the problem?

I don't have any problems with my 2018 MBP Vega 20 it's been like any other computer I've purchased, it simply works. Maybe I bought the end of the batch, it was a built-to-order purchase. Regarding the keyboard, as fast as I type for long periods it feels like there's a vibrator under my fingers but I eventually adapt to it like anything else, similar to my external Matias backlit wireless keyboard it feels like tiny balloons under my fingers.

 

[kreasonos]

Thinkpads have the best keyboards. Spill resistant too.

 

[Never mind]

Thinkpads have the best keyboards. Spill resistant too.

Yep. Agree with you on those you mentioned, plus the Lenovo X1 extreme doesn’t have the T2 issues, has a finger print reader and it cost much less, not to mention the MacBook Pro 13 inch, not the 15 inch, is still using DDR-3 memory.

X1 Extreme 15.6 $ 2,411.35 incl. taxes
Windows Pro
CPU i7-8750H
DDR-4 16 Gb (easy to upgrade to 32 Gb)
256 Gb
4K
4 yr warranty
1050 Ti 4 Gb gpu
Intel Wifi
BlueTooth 5.0
Windows Hello + Finger Print reader


Edit: Now down to $ 2,381.40 w/ tax

 

[EEzycade]

actually ended up liking it, big surprise

 

[interessiert]

Yes.

Apple is replacing my couple-months-old 2018 MBP because of increasing keyboard issues. I suspect my use of a keyboard cover has their interest, as it reduces the chance that dust ingress is the issue. Something else is going on.

There are 2 different reasons for failure:
1. Mechanical, caused by dust and dirt blocking the butterfly arms
2. Electrical (also happened with 2017 models – maybe enforced by the instability of the membrane)

Eventually, keyboards will go away, replaced by a touch-based virtual keyboard with haptic feedback. Not sure how that'll work for me as a touch-typist, but it will also eliminate country-specific keyboard layouts and allow the machine to be waterproof. I am looking forward to it but expect it'll take a little getting-used-to.

PLEASE NOT ! NO touch keyboard or other contactless technique.

I wish a simple keyboard that works properly, that's all.

 

[sclough]

I've been reading through this thread and I wonder if there's any consensus that the MBP keyboards deteriorate over time for no good reason?

I mostly write for a living (I spend hours a day writing) and over time I noticed typing on my MBP seemed more frustrating than it should be. I'm a pretty fast typist (90-100 wpm) but I was not as accurate as I should be. For example, the word "the" frequently came out as "thee" and the space bar didn't seem to always register properly. Sometimes I get random letters that are not adjacent to the letter I was typing. Because they were not adjacent it did not make any sense that I accidentally hit an errant key.

I currently have is a 13" 2018 Touch Bar model with the third generation keyboard. Just for fun, I've tried out an iPad Pro with Apple's folio keyboard and I was shocked. Suddenly my typing was accurate again. I could write at my fastest typing speed with virtually no problems. I would never have thought the iPad keyboard would be a fast keyboard, but for me its is light years ahead of the MBP. There's simply no comparison.

For fun I picked up the new 2018 MBA to see if the keyboard felt any different even though it is supposed to be the same 3rd generation keyboard as in my MBP. Typing on it for two days now I'm definitely much more accurate than on the MBP (Though not as fast and accurate as I am on the new iPad Pro.)

So--my question is do these keyboards just rapidly deteriorate with heavy use? I wonder if I keep the MBA if it will end up being as inaccurate as the MBP over time. Obviously the MBP and MBA have very different internals--if heat is the problem--but in theory they have the same keyboard. Does the pro run hotter and therefore more likely to mess with the circuitry in the keyboard? I like the power of the MBP but would take the MBA just to be able to type quickly and accurately again. I can't believe my pro keyboard is flaky and the machine isn't even 6 months old....

 

[kreasonos]

I've been reading through this thread and I wonder if there's any consensus that the MBP keyboards deteriorate over time for no good reason?

I mostly write for a living (I spend hours a day writing) and over time I noticed typing on my MBP seemed more frustrating than it should be. I'm a pretty fast typist (90-100 wpm) but I was not as accurate as I should be. For example, the word "the" frequently came out as "thee" and the space bar didn't seem to always register properly. Sometimes I get random letters that are not adjacent to the letter I was typing. Because they were not adjacent it did not make any sense that I accidentally hit an errant key.

I currently have is a 13" 2018 Touch Bar model with the third generation keyboard. Just for fun, I've tried out an iPad Pro with Apple's folio keyboard and I was shocked. Suddenly my typing was accurate again. I could write at my fastest typing speed with virtually no problems. I would never have thought the iPad keyboard would be a fast keyboard, but for me its is light years ahead of the MBP. There's simply no comparison.

For fun I picked up the new 2018 MBA to see if the keyboard felt any different even though it is supposed to be the same 3rd generation keyboard as in my MBP. Typing on it for two days now I'm definitely much more accurate than on the MBP (Though not as fast and accurate as I am on the new iPad Pro.)

So--my question is do these keyboards just rapidly deteriorate with heavy use? I wonder if I keep the MBA if it will end up being as inaccurate as the MBP over time. Obviously the MBP and MBA have very different internals--if heat is the problem--but in theory they have the same keyboard. Does the pro run hotter and therefore more likely to mess with the circuitry in the keyboard? I like the power of the MBP but would take the MBA just to be able to type quickly and accurately again. I can't believe my pro keyboard is flaky and the machine isn't even 6 months old....

I would guess you are more accurate on the MBA because of the keyboard angle rather than deterioration on your MBP.

 

[MacNut]

I'm starting to get used to the new deader keyboard. Still not as nice as my 2010 machine.

And didn't Apple say these were quiter? They sound louder to me.

 

[sclough]

I would guess you are more accurate on the MBA because of the keyboard angle rather than deterioration on your MBP.

It's definitely the keyboard and not the angle. I've tried typing on both at different angles.

 

[537635]

I've been reading through this thread and I wonder if there's any consensus that the MBP keyboards deteriorate over time for no good reason?

I mostly write for a living (I spend hours a day writing) and over time I noticed typing on my MBP seemed more frustrating than it should be. I'm a pretty fast typist (90-100 wpm) but I was not as accurate as I should be. For example, the word "the" frequently came out as "thee" and the space bar didn't seem to always register properly. Sometimes I get random letters that are not adjacent to the letter I was typing. Because they were not adjacent it did not make any sense that I accidentally hit an errant key.

I currently have is a 13" 2018 Touch Bar model with the third generation keyboard. Just for fun, I've tried out an iPad Pro with Apple's folio keyboard and I was shocked. Suddenly my typing was accurate again. I could write at my fastest typing speed with virtually no problems. I would never have thought the iPad keyboard would be a fast keyboard, but for me its is light years ahead of the MBP. There's simply no comparison.

For fun I picked up the new 2018 MBA to see if the keyboard felt any different even though it is supposed to be the same 3rd generation keyboard as in my MBP. Typing on it for two days now I'm definitely much more accurate than on the MBP (Though not as fast and accurate as I am on the new iPad Pro.)

So--my question is do these keyboards just rapidly deteriorate with heavy use? I wonder if I keep the MBA if it will end up being as inaccurate as the MBP over time. Obviously the MBP and MBA have very different internals--if heat is the problem--but in theory they have the same keyboard. Does the pro run hotter and therefore more likely to mess with the circuitry in the keyboard? I like the power of the MBP but would take the MBA just to be able to type quickly and accurately again. I can't believe my pro keyboard is flaky and the machine isn't even 6 months old....

Just to comment on random letters appearing, not adjacent to the one being typed. Happened to me also, most probably related to fast typing. I noticed that repeated letters sometimes take a few moments to register and in between I type several other letters.

For instance, if I typed "the", second "e" would sometimes appear somewhere in the beginning of the next word.

Extremely frustrating. I guess the general consensus is that majority of these keyboards will fail over time one way or the other.

 

[navaira]

I would guess you are more accurate on the MBA because of the keyboard angle rather than deterioration on your MBP.

I would guess it's because the MBA is two days old, give it three weeks.

Just to comment on random letters appearing, not adjacent to the one being typed. Happened to me also, most probably related to fast typing. I noticed that repeated letters sometimes take a few moments to register and in between I type several other letters.

For instance, if I typed "the", second "e" would sometimes appear somewhere in the beginning of the next word.

I experienced this with space bar quite often. Or, rather, I e xprienceed tthis with spacee b ar quitee ofteen.

 

[interessiert]

I've been reading through this thread and I wonder if there's any consensus that the MBP keyboards deteriorate over time for no good reason?

There is a clear consensus among participants that Apple could not cover the technical problems with butterfly keyboard mechanism up to now (3rd generation).

So--my question is do these keyboards just rapidly deteriorate with heavy use?
...I wonder if I keep the MBA if it will end up being as inaccurate as the MBP over time.

After a while a new 2018 MBA will show same failures as MBP does, because there is technically (nearly) no difference between these laptops – you are right: because of the membrane the more powerful MBP
1. got a heavier temperature problem, means
2. the membrane will alter for worse faster than the MBA.

The membrane itself produces new kinds of failure.

...I like the power of the MBP but would take the MBA just to be able to type quickly and accurately again. I can't believe my pro keyboard is flaky and the machine isn't even 6 months old....

Give your MBP 2018 back, if there is a way. Better to get your money back ore a replacement and this you will do several times, as often you realize some faults...
The only problem is, that up to now Apple did not add MBP to to the keyboard replacement program – they do not want to admit this keyboard crisis for these exorbitant expensive 2018 line... unfairness to customers (Apples new wave)

Take a MBP 2015 or a MBA 2017 with highest specification available and wait till Apple will wake up from this deep slumber – I fear this will last several years.
[doublepost=1545821180][/doublepost]

Made an account here just to add to the list of issues with this keyboard.

Bought a 2018 15" MBP, essentially fully specced (i9/32GB RAM/1TB hard drive), at the beginning of November. Everything worked fine for a couple of weeks, after which I started to have a few issues mostly with the "s" key, though I would occasionally have issues with the "a," "e," and space bar keys. With some investigation, I realized that the frequency of the error occurring varied with the point of contact on the key; i.e., typically the error was quite rare when the very center of the key was pressed but become more frequent on certain sides/edges of the key. Eventually, the error became so frequent that typing with the built-in keyboard was totally unusable. I followed the "cleaning procedure" suggested by Apple with compressed air (lol) which didn't change a thing.

Went to the Apple store and got a replacement with essentially no questions asked. Simply demonstrated the error, gave them my original model, and got a brand new, identical, still-shrink-wrapped model. "Great," I thought. Problem solved. That happened <2 weeks ago.

I'm now having trouble with the space key on this new unit. I had done some preliminary research before buying this as I had heard the complaints of the butterfly keyboards on the previous models but assumed everything was taken care of. With two failed machines in a row, though, I figured it was time to do some more research. Lo and behold, others are having the same issue and I came across this thread.

As with the last unit, the error seems to occur more frequently when certain points of the space bar are pressed, but it happens frequently enough that it's quite irritating. I've installed Unshaky which seems to have largely resolved the issue as I was having problems with repeated key presses rather than not registering a key press at all, though the latter did and still does occur intermittently.

This is beyond frustrating. After having trouble with this second unit, I'm very seriously considering returning this unit and saying "**** it." I've got a fully specced 2013 15" MBP that I was using prior to this unit which still works reasonably well, though there are several issues with it (issue with the screen coating that I didn't realize there was a repair program for until after the program ended, needs a replacement battery, just generally somewhat sluggish, particularly for relatively demanding computing tasks) that make me want the newer model.

I love Apple products - or at least I did. My wife converted to a MBP after my experience with the 2013 model, which she loves. I pre-ordered the iPhone X when it came out last year. I've got an iPad Pro. And I'm all in on the peripherals, too, from a Time Capsule to AirPods. In general, my experience with Apple products as been outstanding, and I far and away prefer macOS over Windows.

But this is leaving a very nasty taste in my mouth. I didn't spend $4k on a laptop which is horribly overpriced for the hardware - something that I do willingly because I want to use macOS and generally like the quality of Apple hardware - to have basic problems with something as fundamental as the freakin' keyboard.

I'm going to give this unit a couple of weeks to see how it goes. If anything gets worse or other keys become involved, I guess it's back to the Apple store I go for another replacement.

The earlier the better – don't hesitate to ask for the next replacement – Apple needs your help to realize this mess and to awake!

 

[turbineseaplane]

Take a MBP 2015 or a MBA 2017 with highest specification available and wait till Apple will wake up from this deep slumber – I fear this will last several years.

Agree on this take.
Sent from my 2015 15” MBP

 

[Plutonius]

I've been reading through this thread and I wonder if there's any consensus that the MBP keyboards deteriorate over time for no good reason?

I mostly write for a living (I spend hours a day writing) and over time I noticed typing on my MBP seemed more frustrating than it should be. I'm a pretty fast typist (90-100 wpm) but I was not as accurate as I should be. For example, the word "the" frequently came out as "thee" and the space bar didn't seem to always register properly. Sometimes I get random letters that are not adjacent to the letter I was typing. Because they were not adjacent it did not make any sense that I accidentally hit an errant key.

I currently have is a 13" 2018 Touch Bar model with the third generation keyboard. Just for fun, I've tried out an iPad Pro with Apple's folio keyboard and I was shocked. Suddenly my typing was accurate again. I could write at my fastest typing speed with virtually no problems. I would never have thought the iPad keyboard would be a fast keyboard, but for me its is light years ahead of the MBP. There's simply no comparison.

For fun I picked up the new 2018 MBA to see if the keyboard felt any different even though it is supposed to be the same 3rd generation keyboard as in my MBP. Typing on it for two days now I'm definitely much more accurate than on the MBP (Though not as fast and accurate as I am on the new iPad Pro.)

So--my question is do these keyboards just rapidly deteriorate with heavy use? I wonder if I keep the MBA if it will end up being as inaccurate as the MBP over time. Obviously the MBP and MBA have very different internals--if heat is the problem--but in theory they have the same keyboard. Does the pro run hotter and therefore more likely to mess with the circuitry in the keyboard? I like the power of the MBP but would take the MBA just to be able to type quickly and accurately again. I can't believe my pro keyboard is flaky and the machine isn't even 6 months old....

Is an external keyboard an option for you ?

 

[simonmet]

I highly recommend getting a Satechi. It's very small, plugs into the side, and gives you the missing ports.

The only complaint that I have is that Apple should have included one with the purchase of each MacBook Pro.

Apple are too cheap to even supply an extension power cable or 3.5 mm headphone adapter anymore, let alone alone a multi-port dock. Quality tanks, free accessories disappear and prices go through the roof. Do they think people won’t notice? I think they’re trying to take advantage of people until they wise up and pull back. Only that will make Apple lift their game. It’s why I’m not buying anything Apple until the prices reflect the diminish quality and scope of supply.
[doublepost=1545902112][/doublepost]

This was my experience largely due to the fact the reseller had a 30-day return policy instead of Apple's 14. And the reseller couldn't have been more gracious about it when I continued returning faulty MBPs. Which is why I continue spending money there. I don't expect to spend any money on Apple products in the foreseeable future, our iPad Air 2 still chugs (although the battery is starting to give in), we got an iMac this year, the only other Apple product in our house that isn't a cable or a charger is my white plastic Macbook from... was it 2007? It still works, including the keyboard.

Can I ask which retailer?

 

[navaira]

Can I ask which retailer?

Coolblue (The Netherlands).

 

[simonmet]

Coolblue (The Netherlands).

Nice.

 

[Queen6]

Is an external keyboard an option for you ?

Seriously the wrong answer, every notebook/laptop should ship with competent keyboard. Sorry it's like suggesting to those afflicted with T2 random crashes not to turn on the computer to avoid the problem. Apple and it's followers need to take ownership, Apple's current trajectory is ridiculous at best as there's something fundamentally wrong...

Q-6

 

[537635]

Seriously the wrong answer, every notebook/laptop should ship with competent keyboard. Sorry it's like suggesting to those afflicted with T2 random crashes not to turn on the computer to avoid the problem. Apple and it's followers need to take ownership, Apple's current trajectory is ridiculous at best as there's something fundamentally wrong...

Absolutely agree with this. Although many of us are heavily invested into Apple's ecosystem, both hardware and software-wise, not to mention services. Having a laptop with non-functional keyboard is abysmal, but many of us are just looking for temporary solutions, just something to mitigate what seems to be one of the greatest design failures in Apple's history. More so, because as of introduction of the new Air, there are NO working keyboards in Apple's laptop portfolio. The only remaining solution is the Magic Keyboard, which ironically is one of the best keyboards in my opinion.

 

[Queen6]

Absolutely agree with this. Although many of us are heavily invested into Apple's ecosystem, both hardware and software-wise, not to mention services. Having a laptop with non-functional keyboard is abysmal, but many of us are just looking for temporary solutions, just something to mitigate what seems to be one of the greatest design failures in Apple's history. More so, because as of introduction of the new Air, there are NO working keyboards in Apple's laptop portfolio. The only remaining solution is the Magic Keyboard, which ironically is one of the best keyboards in my opinion.

More people that demand refund the faster Apple will react appropriately. Unfortunately once again it will require court action that Apple knows it's not capable of defending to extend warranty with the same flawed product. Customers need to stop defending Apple's actions and hold the company accountable for it's poor decisions, until that happens you can expect more of the same which is validated by the new Air being released with the same problematic keyboard...

Q-6

 

[navaira]

Nice.

They're amazing. I rarely advertise anything, but this is a fantastic company with amazing customer service (unlike a certain other company that rhymes with Papple). I buy everything there, including the Yoga C930 I'm typing on now.

Seriously the wrong answer, every notebook/laptop should ship with competent keyboard.

I thought the same, really. What's the point of a laptop with an external keyboard...? (Especially when said laptop costs TONS of money.)

More so, because as of introduction of the new Air, there are NO working keyboards in Apple's laptop portfolio. The only remaining solution is the Magic Keyboard, which ironically is one of the best keyboards in my opinion.

I've never used the Magic Keyboard, but indeed I am yet to hear a bad word about it. Since the latest interation was introduced, everyone's been begging Apple to use it in their portables. Welp. As an external perhaps

 

[smirking]

Thinkpads have the best keyboards. Spill resistant too.

Is that still true for the newer models? I've been a fan of the classic Thinkpads' keyboards, but their newer models don't really look that appealing to me... but I have zero real experience with those.

 

[537635]

I've never used the Magic Keyboard, but indeed I am yet to hear a bad word about it. Since the latest interation was introduced, everyone's been begging Apple to use it in their portables. Welp. As an external perhaps

I would buy this keyboard on a laptop any day. I mean it's a no brainer. Very similar to pre-2016 laptop keyboards, but with a bit more key travel. It's incredibly thin (for a desktop keyboard). And keycaps are white, so there is no "polished" look after real-world use.

Sad irony is that I used it when my 2015 mbpr was docked to external monitor. After 2016 I thought I would just get the new model and get rid of the monitor and external keyboard. I'm an idiot.

 

[zen]

I would buy this keyboard on a laptop any day. I mean it's a no brainer. Very similar to pre-2016 laptop keyboards, but with a bit more key travel. It's incredibly thin (for a desktop keyboard). And keycaps are white, so there is no "polished" look after real-world use.

Sad irony is that I used it when my 2015 mbpr was docked to external monitor. After 2016 I thought I would just get the new model and get rid of the monitor and external keyboard. I'm an idiot.

The Magic Keyboard is close to Apple's pre-butterfly keyboards, so sure, they could put that mechanism in a laptop.

But manufacturers like Lenovo can put high quality keyboards, with loads of travel and tactile response - almost verging on a mechanical keyboard feel - into an enclosure that is just as thin and light as a MBP.

Clearly, the current butterfly keyboard is nothing to do with thinness and lightness. It exists because Jonny Ive thinks it looks good, and his design philosophy has always been form over function.