Gen 3 butterfly keyboard

[pmau]

Doesn't seem like something a (ex) trillion $ company couldn't do with all their resources.

... and they could have rolled back the whole butterfly mechanism in 2016 already.
But they will never do that.

I think the next major problem will be any reliability issue with the T2 chip.
In fact, I do not understand that there was no real complaints.
If this thing breaks, you are screwed. Be it firmware, hacking or simply hardware failure over time.

 

[0014]

Took my MacBook Pro in about a week ago (see last post) and now today this happens.

Don't think much of your desktop wallpaper!

Seriously though I hope you get it fixed/replaced.

 

[Sterkenburg]

1. Take the 2015 bottomcase.
3. Take the 2015 topcase with the old (great, better, working... whatever) keyboard, make the trackpad hole larger.

Doesn't seem like something a (ex) trillion $ company couldn't do with all their resources.

... but doing this would mean a thicker machine. The horror!
It's a catch-22: they are dead set on never making the machine less thin than it already is, but are incapable of satisfying both this constraint and that of producing a reliable keyboard. Therefore, they painted themselves into a corner where the only way out would be admitting that the current design was a mistake. If I hadn't been hit by the issue two times already, I would honestly find all of this pretty hilarious.

 

[myret]

Took my MacBook Pro in about a week ago (see last post) and now today this happens.

You are not alone... my battery died in 2 months with less than 10 cycles... really frustrating...

 

[Plutonius]

This is just bizzare. Any other manufacturer would be forced to recall all of these devices. I really don't understand what is Apple's long-game here. After 2016-2017 fiasco they put a condom on the keyboard and call it a day. After numerous complaints that this isn't working (on 2018 MBPs) they launch the new Air with exactly the same keyboard. So now every single laptop they produce has a ticking bomb that is the keyboard.

Sure there was bendgate, where exactly the same design goals (thinner, thinner) made problems in the real world. But they fixed this and now iPhones are a bit thicker and virtually impossible to bend.

It's just sad really. If you want a new macOS laptop in 2019, you are out of options. Weird enough the closest thing is mac mini with an iPad and LumaFusion.

It's cheaper in the long term to pay a legal team.

 

[SBruv]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to give a small update since my first encounters with the repeating letters-issue. This week has been (to my complete surprise) issue-free. I've used my MBP2018 extensively at work (writing articles, typing along with conferences etc, in other words: stuff that makes you want to have a perfectly functioning keyboard) and I didn't have any unintended letter repeat. I did have the Unshaky app on, and it reports that since I've installed it (like a week ago) it has already ''prevented'' 276 unintended repeats, so it's not like my keyboard miraculously became the MBP keyboard we've all longed for. But it's a workaround that makes me able to do my job without any frustrations. I just hope that it stays like this. I still have all of next week to decide whether I'll return and get my money back.

But for now I'm leaning more towards keeping it and hoping it will remain stable as it is now... which at the same time sounds totally stupid for a laptop in this price range.

Eh? It hasn’t been ‘issue free’, you’ve just put a bandaid on it. Not exactly a solution in any real sense.

 

[Code cookies]

Ended up getting a full refund on mine after all the issues I had. I will probably get a Mac mini as replacement.

 

[Wags]

Ended up getting a full refund on mine after all the issues I had. I will probably get a Mac mini as replacement.

How many repairs before offer refund or new machine?

 

[Ma2k5]

Ended up getting a full refund on mine after all the issues I had. I will probably get a Mac mini as replacement.

That’ll show em! Throw money at another one of their products

 

[Code cookies]

How many repairs before offer refund or new machine?

I had to specifically request a refund. First time I took it in for the keys repeating, they popped the key caps off and dusted them, second time was with this display issue and also the keys repeating again. They said normally they wouldn’t refund it without actually replacing a part first, but because they could see how frustrating it was to be bringing it back a little over a week later, they let me get a refund.
[doublepost=1545255457][/doublepost]

That’ll show em! Throw money at another one of their products

I get that, but I do prefer macOS over windows. Along with the apps that are macOS only, iOS integration, and the fact I am working on an iOS app in my free time.

 

[SBruv]

Add this video which references some of the MacRumors threads and responses about the butteryfly keyboards.

This sums the situation up perfectly. Apple’s silence on this glaring design flaw is nothing short of contemptuous.

 

[markedlymac]

Hello friends, and frustrated MacBook keyboard users.

Update on my journey:

PART ONE

I checked with ACCC yesterday and sadly, the answer to my enquiry of whether Apple is contravening Consumer Law by only offering a replacement model with $4099.00 RRP vs. my original model from mere months ago with the price of $4419.00, is as follows: there is no specification in Consumer Law about that factor. Only a broad principle is spelled out that "The supplier must provide goods of an identical type", so they said the dispute would have to be ruled by individual court case if necessary (or if I were lucky, a simpler Fair Trading Consumer Complaint before that), and that therefore, a refund (followed by a re-purchase with that same amount of money) is how I'd be able to easily recoup the full value of my original defective laptop.

You'd think I'd just go with Apple's offer for refund then (after initially refusing it for 6 weeks), right? Well I would, if they didn't advise me of an unheard-of "4-8 weeks" refund processing time using the most ******** made-up reason ever, which has made me not trust Apple in such a situation for the rest of my life.

PART TWO

So that brings me to the new stage in my journey. Guys, after all this time I think I've found a way around the 'without a laptop for two weeks' problem - at least for me here in Australia.

Like most of you, I use my laptop every single day for work / important projects I run. I simply can't do my life's work without a laptop, day-to-day.

Here in Australia, given #KeyboardGate is a 'major failure', we're entitled to demand a full refund due to the defect, any time we want. So here's what I've realised you can do to get an instant 'replacement' issued without waiting - legally, and within your rights as a consumer:

1. Order a NEW laptop using 'buy now pay later' option. (Usually no credit check's required, just make sure to pay within the term's period, e.g. 90-days interest free at Harvey Norman.)

2. Let the new laptop arrive at home - and there - you've got your new laptop ALREADY!

3. Transfer data from old to new laptop, then hand in old one and organise the refund which you're 100% entitled to.

4. Wait for the refund money to arrive in your bank account.

5. Finally pay off the new laptop fully using your refund money.

I've yet to try this, but I plan to in Jan 2019. Do you think this is a way around the issue? I'm surprised I haven't seen others talk about this!

As for my fight to bring Apple to justice (to the exhaustive lengths I've been doing), I now have less time than I did earlier this year, and want to prioritise my time for other fights.

The reseller for my defective unit, Harvey Norman, have been nice and normal to me unlike the amazing campaign of mistreatment I've had from Apple directly. They've been shocked at my story with Apple. It really cements my theory that this is all about Apple trying to not take responsibility for what is a major manufacturing ****-up, in my book.

It is unbelievable that you have to buy Apple products through a reseller in order to get proper treatment as an Apple customer. What a travesty. Steve Jobs surely wouldn't have let this happen. He might have been a massive gaslighter, but he still strived to deliver, and DID, (he would have fixed this error by now), and was certainly smart enough to not let people get turned off by the whole Apple experience this badly.

Will I ever walk into an Apple Store again? I wonder.

 

[navaira]

It is unbelievable that you have to buy Apple products through a reseller in order to get proper treatment as an Apple customer.

This was my experience largely due to the fact the reseller had a 30-day return policy instead of Apple's 14. And the reseller couldn't have been more gracious about it when I continued returning faulty MBPs. Which is why I continue spending money there. I don't expect to spend any money on Apple products in the foreseeable future, our iPad Air 2 still chugs (although the battery is starting to give in), we got an iMac this year, the only other Apple product in our house that isn't a cable or a charger is my white plastic Macbook from... was it 2007? It still works, including the keyboard.

 

[Coder007]

I'm wondering if anyone knows what is actually causing these keyboard failures. In most cases it isn't dust. As seen in the following YouTube video, the key switch mechanism is actually replaceable.

The keys and switches seem to be available at https://www.replacementlaptopkeys.com.

I'm curious if it is simply the dome switch that is failing, or is the underlying keyboard circuitry causing the problem. I'm kind of hoping that my keyboard will fail, just so I can attempt to accurately diagnose the problem.

 

[sjinsjca]

I'm wondering if anyone knows what is actually causing these keyboard failures.

Nope. At least, not that's been disclosed.

You're correct: it isn't dust. My high-spec 2018 MBP has had a keyboard cover on it from first unboxing.

It's an intermittent problem. I'm a fast touch-typist. Generally I wear out keyboards in 18 months or so. This one is of course barely four months old. Sometimes I can type an entire paragraph without issue, other times it misses keystrokes, repeats them, and sometimes gets them out of order. Apple is replacing the machine.

With some background in relevant areas of technology, I suspect a materials issue in which the contact behavior varies with time and maybe temperature, befuddling the debounce logic. Dell had something similar happen not long ago. You might wonder how this isn't settled science after four decades of personal computing, but the fact is that input technologies of all types are evolving rapidly as manufacturers aim for improved portability.

As to diagnosing this yourself, mind voiding your warranty! (And by the way, "warranty" came out "warrrannty" when I typed it just now. Auto-correct still works, at least!)

 

[MacNut]

Im still not sold on the new keyboard. It is harder to type on vs the old school keyboards. Im sure I will get used to it but it just doesn't have the feedback.

 

[Ma2k5]

I'm wondering if anyone knows what is actually causing these keyboard failures. In most cases it isn't dust. As seen in the following YouTube video, the key switch mechanism is actually replaceable.

The keys and switches seem to be available at https://www.replacementlaptopkeys.com.

I'm curious if it is simply the dome switch that is failing, or is the underlying keyboard circuitry causing the problem. I'm kind of hoping that my keyboard will fail, just so I can attempt to accurately diagnose the problem.

I would put it down to the dome switch. Some managed to fix issues such as double/missed entry with a bit of double sided tape on the switch.

 

[navaira]

a bit of double sided tape

...now available in space grey...

 

[interessiert]

You've got the wrong information cause the 3rd generation butterfly keyboard isn't compatible.

So be sure, you've got the 2nd generation. But this isn't a disadavantage: If you get the next keyboard troubles you are still in the keyboard replacement program – whilst the 3rd gen. up to now isn't

 

[Coder007]

You've got the wrong information cause the 3rd generation butterfly keyboard isn't compatible.

So be sure, you've got the 2nd generation. But this isn't a disadavantage: If you get the next keyboard troubles you are still in the keyboard replacement program – whilst the 3rd gen. up to now isn't

Who are you addressing?

If it is me, then I am a bit unsure what you are trying to convey.

I am aware that the video shows a 2nd generation keyboard, however the mechanism is fundamentally the same between all generations. I personally have a 2018 13" MBP, and I have heard that the keys are removable, or more easily removed, on this machine.

As far as the link for the keys and switches, I am unsure if they are specifically for the 2018 model. If they aren't, they should be available in the near future.

If your post on was NOT addressed to me, my apologies. What you are trying to say is a bit unclear, however.
[doublepost=1545611344][/doublepost]

I would put it down to the dome switch. Some managed to fix issues such as double/missed entry with a bit of double sided tape on the switch.

If it is, in fact, the dome switch that is failing, then one could conceivably continue to repair their keyboard for the life of the machine, assuming a suitable switch replacement is available.

I do have AppleCare, however I personally hate the idea of giving my machine to a stranger for them to repair it. People care less for stuff that they don't own, it's just human nature. I would really like to find a self repair method for these 3rd gen keyboards, although voiding the warranty is a valid concern.

 

[Wags]

Wonder if Apple repairs like the video or just uses internal parts with new case.

 

[Alameda]

reading all the comments here and the fact that everyone is complaining about the 2018 keyboards it makes me feel like the failure rate is 70-80%.
is there anyone here who doesn't have the problem?

im stuck now, do you suggest buying the 2018 13inch MBP or not?
it is a big investment for me.

I had a 2015 MacBook Pro which I liked much more, but it was my personal property and my company insisted on buying me one. Besides being faster, the 2018 seems like a step backwards:
1) It's been rebooting itself lately. My 2015 never did that. But maybe it's a software issue... I don't know yet.
2) The keyboard has already had problems. But maybe it was just once... I don't know yet
3) The touchbar thing is a big pain. I don't like it; if I'm holding the laptop in my hand, it's easy to press one of the buttons accidentally, because they aren't raised. What's more, I set mine up to be a consistent set of buttons: brightness, play/pause/mute/volume. But unlike the fixed buttons, in this setup, the play/pause won't work with iTunes unless iTunes is the active application. So it's a step backwards, but not a deal-breaker.

The deal-breaker for me, by far, is the USB Type-C connectivity. I don't care that they have USB Type-C; in and of itself, it's an upgrade. But they took away EVERY other port. So if somebody gives you a USB stick to copy some files... you need a dongle. If you go to a conference room to play a video via HDMI... you need a dongle. EVERYTHING needs a dongle. To use the same DisplayPort monitor I used before, I need a new cable. I've NEVER had such a poor laptop experience. My laptop bag is FULL of stupid little dongles and adapters. If I want to charge my iPhone, it's one cable, if I want to attach it to my laptop, it's a different cable, or a dongle... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU OWN can be connected to this laptop unless you buy a dongle. That's not so bad, except that I'm a very mobile person; I present in conference rooms, at customers' sites, etc... and carrying all the stupid cables and plugging one thing into another is just stupid. Had I known how inconvenient this laptop is, I would not have accepted it.

They changed the power supply to USB Type-C. First, this means no more MagSafe, which was a FAR FAR FAR better power supply connector. What's more, USB Type-C cable is very thick, and so the new power adapters have cords which you cannot wrap around the power supply, like you could with MagSafe. There are vendors on Amazon which sell MagSafe to USB Type-C adapters, so you can use your old MagSafe power adapters, but, once again, it's another dongle, and it's minuscule and very easily lost, as are the USB Type-A to Type-C converters for memory sticks.

 

[cfdlab]

I had a 2015 MacBook Pro which I liked much more, but it was my personal property and my company insisted on buying me one. Besides being faster, the 2018 seems like a step backwards:
1) It's been rebooting itself lately. My 2015 never did that. But maybe it's a software issue... I don't know yet.
2) The keyboard has already had problems. But maybe it was just once... I don't know yet
3) The touchbar thing is a big pain. I don't like it; if I'm holding the laptop in my hand, it's easy to press one of the buttons accidentally, because they aren't raised. What's more, I set mine up to be a consistent set of buttons: brightness, play/pause/mute/volume. But unlike the fixed buttons, in this setup, the play/pause won't work with iTunes unless iTunes is the active application. So it's a step backwards, but not a deal-breaker.

The deal-breaker for me, by far, is the USB Type-C connectivity. I don't care that they have USB Type-C; in and of itself, it's an upgrade. But they took away EVERY other port. So if somebody gives you a USB stick to copy some files... you need a dongle. If you go to a conference room to play a video via HDMI... you need a dongle. EVERYTHING needs a dongle. To use the same DisplayPort monitor I used before, I need a new cable. I've NEVER had such a poor laptop experience. My laptop bag is FULL of stupid little dongles and adapters. If I want to charge my iPhone, it's one cable, if I want to attach it to my laptop, it's a different cable, or a dongle... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU OWN can be connected to this laptop unless you buy a dongle. That's not so bad, except that I'm a very mobile person; I present in conference rooms, at customers' sites, etc... and carrying all the stupid cables and plugging one thing into another is just stupid. Had I known how inconvenient this laptop is, I would not have accepted it.

They changed the power supply to USB Type-C. First, this means no more MagSafe, which was a FAR FAR FAR better power supply connector. What's more, USB Type-C cable is very thick, and so the new power adapters have cords which you cannot wrap around the power supply, like you could with MagSafe. There are vendors on Amazon which sell MagSafe to USB Type-C adapters, so you can use your old MagSafe power adapters, but, once again, it's another dongle, and it's minuscule and very easily lost, as are the USB Type-A to Type-C converters for memory sticks.

Agree with every point made here. The post 2016 MBP are a major disaster. Apart from thin and light I cannot see a single positive thing. And we are paying vastly more for a vastly inferior product. At this point apple is purely milking money from its captive userbase. May work in short run for apple, but it is a failing strategy.

 

[Ma2k5]

reading all the comments here and the fact that everyone is complaining about the 2018 keyboards it makes me feel like the failure rate is 70-80%.
is there anyone here who doesn't have the problem?

im stuck now, do you suggest buying the 2018 13inch MBP or not?
it is a big investment for me.

coming here and everyone reporting problems with the pros airs and the macbook since all have the same keyboard.
how is apple still possibly functioning!

It won't be anything that high, although might be relatively high over a 5 year ownership (we will have to wait and see).

If you need or prefer macOS and you need a MacBook, I guess you will just have to take a risk and let AppleCare take care of any issues. After AppleCare expires (or earlier), you can always just sell the device to upgrade to a newer MacBook which might further improve their reliability of the keys.

I picked up a 13" TB recently (to do some specific dev work) and bar these issues (big issues at that) it is a lovely machine - even has really good battery life (the one concern I had - I am averaging ~8-10 hours, though this is a developer use-case not video editing). Compared to the competition, it has the advantage of a very good iGPU (Intel Iris 655, vs the Intel HD 620) so you get far better UI/graphical performance in general without the usual choppiness. I decided to take the risk because I needed macOS for the project I am working and I don't plan to keep it that long (will sell near end of next year I guess). If I didn't need macOS, would I have still purchased it? Definitely not, I had a 2016 model which failed due to KB issues within a month which left a sour taste in my mouth.

If you have a 2014/15 MacBook or otherwise that is still working fine for you, I would say waiting is worthwhile.

 

[maflynn]

Wonder if Apple repairs like the video or just uses internal parts with new case.

The keyboard repair, is a total new keyboard, topcase. I'm not sure if the trackpad is replaced along with the topcase