Like the TrackPad. It feels like its being depressed, but its not. Very tactile.
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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
- Thread starter Lastgreen
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Like the TrackPad. It feels like its being depressed, but its not. Very tactile.
Hi,
I just found this thread and just wanna share something.
I've been using Macbook since 2008. When apple launch 2016 MPB, I decided to buy it since first few days and it's the worst Macbook I ever has especially the keyboard which is the most annoying thing of this laptop. Until November last year I starting to experience the double key stroke issue along with few other issues so I decided to take to to service before holiday season and pick it up yesterday.
After I got it back I notice that they screen of Cap-lock key cap has changed and it become like my colleague 2018 MBP. Now I can enjoy coding again as the annoying sound has gone and they tying feel is much better. Not sure that I got the 2018 MBP keyboard part or not but this definitely not the same keyboard as original one from 2016. Also our company has almost 20 2016-2018 MBP, every 2016-2017 MBP user confirm that my keyboard is better than what they have.
Now I'm much happy with this laptop ... at least I can now typing in during client meeting without drawing everyone's attention.
Note: I live in Thailand
I just found this thread and just wanna share something.
I've been using Macbook since 2008. When apple launch 2016 MPB, I decided to buy it since first few days and it's the worst Macbook I ever has especially the keyboard which is the most annoying thing of this laptop. Until November last year I starting to experience the double key stroke issue along with few other issues so I decided to take to to service before holiday season and pick it up yesterday.
After I got it back I notice that they screen of Cap-lock key cap has changed and it become like my colleague 2018 MBP. Now I can enjoy coding again as the annoying sound has gone and they tying feel is much better. Not sure that I got the 2018 MBP keyboard part or not but this definitely not the same keyboard as original one from 2016. Also our company has almost 20 2016-2018 MBP, every 2016-2017 MBP user confirm that my keyboard is better than what they have.
Now I'm much happy with this laptop ... at least I can now typing in during client meeting without drawing everyone's attention.
Note: I live in Thailand
Thought I would provide an update to this.
I'm now on week ~4-5 of the replacement I received. As above, I've continued having problems with the space bar (and seemingly only the space bar - haven't noticed any problems with other keys). Unfortunately, the key has now become frequently unresponsive, which is something that can't be fixed with Unshaky. This problem causes my typing to slow so much that I've started carrying my damn Apple bluetooth keyboard with me in my bag because typing on the keyboard is just pointless. Having to correct ~50% of words due to failure of the space bar is just ridiculous. I now use the bluetooth keyboard instead of the actual keyboard on the machine.
Went to the Apple Store today and was told that they'll send it in for repair. I was also told by the "genius" that "there are still some kinks in the new keyboard."
So, here we go, I guess. I'm less than thrilled about the prospect of sending in a new machine for repair. I'm worried about them doing a ****** job and just causing more problems down the line. But what can I do? I told them that I simply received a replacement when this happened before and was told that this was because there was an "extended holiday return period" at that time (wtf?). I'm now out of the return period, so I guess I'm stuck on this rollercoaster ride for the life of this machine.
If going to an Apple Store, waiting for 30+ minutes after my "reservation" time to meet with someone for 1 minute only to tell me that they'll "send it in," and actually being without my (only) computer for several days wasn't so inconvenient, I wouldn't mind just getting repeat replacements every time this happens. But, again, I guess I have no choice.
Sigh.
Holiday return period ends January 8th.
https://www.apple.com/shop/shipping-pickup
As far as the keyboard is concerned, this is what bothers me the most. Unreliability. I totally expect a $3000 laptop to fail. It happens from time to time. Not with every user and not with every computer. But these keyboards seem to be just ticking bombs. Especially for heavy and fast typists problems creep up very fast.
You should use any possible way to exchange the computer immediately, otherwise you're in for a a wait before topcase replacement is done. At this point I wonder if currently Apple is producing more solo topcases than entire computers.
https://www.apple.com/shop/shipping-pickup
If you need to return something, send it back for free, or drop it off at any Apple Store. For eligible products purchased between November 14, 2018 and December 25, 2018, you have until January 8, 2019 to initiate a return.
As far as the keyboard is concerned, this is what bothers me the most. Unreliability. I totally expect a $3000 laptop to fail. It happens from time to time. Not with every user and not with every computer. But these keyboards seem to be just ticking bombs. Especially for heavy and fast typists problems creep up very fast.
You should use any possible way to exchange the computer immediately, otherwise you're in for a a wait before topcase replacement is done. At this point I wonder if currently Apple is producing more solo topcases than entire computers.
What everyone wants and should demand is that you'll be able to enjoy your keyboard in 4 years too. But we doubt.
I hate reading on youtube, theverge or even here people defending Apple saying that the whole Butterfly Keyboard issues simply reflect a small minority. You have never heard a negative thing for any other Apple's product keyboard, never. Guess why, because there wasn't one.
Visit reddit/r/apple, check new youtube videos (I regret buying the 2018 MBP - Check the dislikes...****ing Apple's sheeps) etc etc etc.
Good luck everyone.
Me too after 6 weeks with it. But since the 1st and 2nd gen butterfly keyboards caused so many problems I already bought the Apple Care Protection Plan for my 13" MBP. Better be safe than sorry.
That in a nutshell is the problem.
Whether one prefers the Butterfly keyboards or not is totally separate from the reliability issues that Apple introduced.
This was all their choice.
They could have put the normal scissor switch Magic Keyboard in the laptops (which are lower profile than the last gen laptop keyboards) and this entire problem wouldn't exist.
They did this to themselves by choosing to "over-innovate" something that nobody was asking for dramatic changes to.
Shouldn’t be worried about having a certain keyboard after a year. Buying AC can be good thing but just more gain for Apple especially if add to replacement program. Which should. Apple somehow couldn’t live with the .12 thicker case.
I have been tracking this issue pretty closely because I want to replace my 2014 MBA with a 2018 MBA in a year or so. There is a thread in the MBA forum about the keyboard, and there have been some problems, but they don't seem to be as frequent as the 2018 MBP. Obviously, the 2018 MBA hasn't been out as long as the MBP, so maybe we will see it ramp-up. Also, the rMB initially had numerous keyboard failures, but I don't seem to read as much about them now.
I am wondering if heat plays a role in these failures. In particular, the MBA and rMB have low power processors. Does this make them less susceptible to keyboard failures?? I would be interested in hearing from folks that have had 2018 keyboard problems if they noticed more issues when the processor was under load.
I am wondering if heat plays a role in these failures. In particular, the MBA and rMB have low power processors. Does this make them less susceptible to keyboard failures?? I would be interested in hearing from folks that have had 2018 keyboard problems if they noticed more issues when the processor was under load.
That has been mentioned before. Especially since there seems to be certain keys that fail far more than any others.
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I have been wondering about this as well. Then again, googling for thermal images of MBPs indicates that the hottest spot is under the keys T, Y and 6, whereas I seem to read primarily of E, Space and cursor keys failing first.(?) Those are rather cool, but likely to get used a lot.
@Grey Area, I also googled that trying to figure out what EXACTLY is under E and Space Bar and found nothing of interest. Y and 6 never failed on me, T did.
In completely unrelated news, it's possible to Hackintosh Yoga C930, although quite a few things don't work.
[doublepost=1546858058][/doublepost]
By the way, I loved the feel, the sound, everything about that keyboard. With the exception of it breaking five times in five laptops before they reached 20 days from the purchase date. The Yoga works perfectly well, but I wish it had the MBP keyboard...just not breaking from being used.
In completely unrelated news, it's possible to Hackintosh Yoga C930, although quite a few things don't work.
[doublepost=1546858058][/doublepost]
I think your responsibility [...] starts with the determination not to fall into the trap of just making things different. [...] I think one of the most important things is that you change something not to make it different but to make it better. – Jony Ive NOT talking about butterfly keyboards
By the way, I loved the feel, the sound, everything about that keyboard. With the exception of it breaking five times in five laptops before they reached 20 days from the purchase date. The Yoga works perfectly well, but I wish it had the MBP keyboard...just not breaking from being used.
It's ****ing garbage simple as that, near zero QA/QC, too arrogant to simply say we got it wrong, or do we as the end users need to wait years on years for some trite admission similar to the Mac "non" Pro...
Time to retire boy's, you've made your money, let someone else who has real passion and determination run the Mac, someone that actually has a clue, as you ani't got it...
Q-6
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My situation is pretty much identical to yours. I’m on my third keyboard, and this one at least reduces the failure to only the Spacebar, albeit with both repeated strokes (Unshaky - yay!) and missed strokes (boo). I’ve had mine logged with Apple so that they know it’s faulty. There’s clearly no point doing anything about it now, as the problem will just come back every time, but I have a year of warranty, within which Apple will hopefully have solved the problem with a replacement that doesn’t fail. If not, well, who knows..?
Every time Apple say a problem affects "a small percentage of users" I can't help but think "95 is a pretty small number compared to how many stars there are in the universe"...
But... why not build the thing so I can plug a usb stick or monitor in directly? I don't mind having USB Type-C ports; I like them. But deleting every other port makes this laptop far worse to use.
I was quite surprised with my MacBook Pro 13 2018 keyboard. I was expecting it to feel like using my iPhone with what I had read before I got it. I have had it a month now and I don’t mind it at all and find it works quite well. I am coming from a Lenovo Flex 3.
So 58 pages here the takeaway is the condom still isn’t working? *****!
How could it even work? It takes more than a condom (especially a condom with holes on it) to fix a major design issue. The condom only slows down dust ingress (as tested by iFixit, https://ifixit.org/blog/10319/butterfly-keyboard-teardown/), does not prevent it and it also makes the old compressed air fix much harder to apply as the condom works both ways. Accidental Tech Podcast guys called it the Hotel California keyboard, which is quite an appropriate term for it.
In addition, the condom doesn’t do anything to those scenarios where the keyboard starts malfunctioning once the computer heats up and heat expansion and ultra-tight tolerances start their inevitable conflict. If anything, the condom is most likely to make heat-related issues worse.
Because then the side profile couldn't be so thin.
I like the profile of the machine, actually don't find it hard to use: because I leave ethernet, keyboard, HDMI etc connected to the adapter on my desk I have fewer things to plug in than previously, and sure I have an extra presentation adapter (HDMI+VGA) in my bag but you've always needed adapters with Macbooks (ethernet, VGA, and my 2010 model didn't have HDMI for that matter). So I actually don't find it worse to use, just a different set of pros and cons (pros including charging from any port and being able to use the laptop as a fast charger for USB-C power delivery devices). But it does come across as driven by design rather than user needs, which is very "Apple".
Back on topic: my 2018 keyboard is still working fine, I can type faster on it than the previous one, and unlike some I suffer no fatigue from it at all. But it is bloody noisy! Clearly Apple's "design" focus is limited to visual aspects...
I'd be lying if I said that the loss of some of the ports had never inconvenienced me. It has been highly annoying at times, but I like the things I gained in return. I gave up something I liked to get something that would be better in the long haul. I'm ok with that.
I've always had to carry around a library of adapters when I need to be away from my office workstation for a while. There has never enough ports to go around for me. I'm amused when people are outraged when they need dongles. I can't remember a time when I didn't need them thanks to all Apple laptops only ever having two measly USB-A ports.
I never cared for my laptop being thin and light until I got one that was thin and light. Being able to grab my MBP without having to first consider the orthopedic implications of having to haul it around for 12 hours really makes my life easier.
I especially like that it's light. I wouldn't mind if they made the next iteration a little thicker so long as the weight doesn't go up significantly.
If the 2012-15 models were giving you back problems to carry around, the solution is going to the gym not getting a lighter computer
at 4.5lbs, even the 2015 15 inch model is hardly burdensome...
If the 2012-15 models were giving you back problems to carry around, the solution is going to the gym not getting a lighter computer
I'm in pretty good shape, but I sometimes need to walk all over town and I'm often carrying almost 10lbs of camera gear already. Every ounce starts to add up when you do that, but I'm basing my experiences on going from a 2012 to a 2016. That's was a diet of 1.5lbs.
A 2015 would have already been considerably thinner and lighter than a 2012 at 4.5lbs. I probably wouldn't have had a problem with that, but if you asked me how much I'd value shedding just 1lb off of my laptop before I switched to a 2016, I would have scoffed that 1lb would be any difference. I used to be one of those meatheads.
I'm not anymore though and my neck and shoulders don't hurt as much as they used to. That alone converted me into a fan of thinner and lighter.
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lol
That cracked me up.
Good point though..
Who would expect a condom with holes in it to actually work?
(oh - we are talking about keyboards? same problem - lol)