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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard

My MBP started having occasional errors where some letters would be repeated or come out of order. As someone who writes for a living it was incredibly frustrating until I tried another computer and realized it wasn't me--it was the keyboard. Long story short, I took it into Apple and they put a new top case in my MBP (2018 touchbar). In the mean time I wrote on the 12.9 iPad pro some (the smart keyboard is much more productive than I would have thought once you get used to it) and I tried a 2015 MBP for a few weeks.

I have to say after using the 2015 for a few weeks and coming back to my (fixed) 2018 MBP I really prefer the newer butterfly keyboard. While I'm nervous about reliabilty, for me the 3rd generation butterfly keyboard has a much better feel and the sound is less annoying than the higher-pictured sound of the keys on the 2015. Plus typing on the 2015 was tiring compared to the 2018--that's the only way I know to describe it. I feel like I can easily type on the 2018 with a light touch but the 2015 did not feel that way. The mushy feel and longer travel were frustrating.

It probably helps that I've been on the butterfly keyboard since 2016. When I got the 2016 it took me about two full months to completely acclimate to the lower travel. I had since had a 2016 MBP, a 2017 MBP, and then a 2018 MBP. Interestingly the 2018 is the only one I've had keyboard problems with, but it's typing feel is definitely better than the 2016 and 2017 keyboards.

After reading others experiences, I thought I'd prefer going back to the 2015, but now that I've done them back to back I really prefer the 2018. I frequently write 6+ hours a day and it's just more comfortable. With that said, I do hope Apple can solve the reliability problem. With the current failures people have experienced I'd be nervous if my MBP was out of warranty. When I picked up my MBP with the replaced keyboard, the apple tech said he hasn't seen any of the ones who got a new keyboard come back. I hope he's right, but of course his opinion is not a solid assessment. The tech who requested the replacement seemed to acknowledge they have had higher than normal keyboard issues with the newer design.

Apple clearly has some quality issues with these keyboards, but I have to say trying the 2015 and coming back to my fixed 2018 made me sold on the new design though not convinced Apple has it at the quality level it should be. I would like to see the four year warranty on the 2018 model however. I bet it will come as these machines get around a year old.
 
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sclough said:
Plus typing on the 2015 was tiring compared to the 2018--that's the only way I know to describe it. I feel like I can easily type on the 2018 with a light touch but the 2015 did not feel that way. The mushy feel and longer travel were frustrating.
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Every MBP keyboard from the unibody design onward has caused me hand pain until the butterfly keys. I was very surprised to have little to no pain using the butterfly keys after I got used to it. I'm not sure what it is that makes it less stressful for me to type on it except that perhaps it just requires less force to actuate.

sclough said:
I frequently write 6+ hours a day and it's just more comfortable.
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Since you write so much, have you tried any low force mechanical keyboards? If you like the butterfly keys, you may also find mechanicals to your liking though the travel is going to be a normal full keystroke. I switch back and forth between a 35g ultralight switch and my 2016 MBP and don't find it to be a hard transition. The change of pace also probably reduces fatigue for me too.

You might also like the new Magic Keyboard. It uses ultra low profile scissor switches. They look like butterfly keys, but they're scissor switches. I found the model used for the iMac Pro to be a better feel than the one that's sold as the Magic Keyboard. I've only played around with them at the Apple Store so I don't know if there really is a difference between the two.
 
iMacedonian said:
Why hasn't anyone tried a silicon cover for the keyboard? They cost like what, 6 bucks?
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I think people have, and it really didn't improve things. I hadn't paid a lot of attention, but I vaguely recall if debris gets under that cover, then its more likely to be trapped and cause issues. Then there's the heat issue, as some of the heat evacuation occurs through the keyboard, finally its the feel of the keyboard. Something is wrong (at least in my mind), that after spending nearly 3,000 dollars you have to put on a cheesy silicon cover in an attempt to prevent the keyboard from breaking.

Now that I'm typing this, it occurred to me that's what apple did, just under the keys and that isn't helping, as we're getting more and more people posting that their 2018 keyboards are failing.
 
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smirking said:
It baffles me at how Windows can be so bad at package management. I've never had a Mac or Linux machine eat up an entire day just trying to catch up on some updates. I went to go visit an aunt one time and she asked me to fix her computer. It was ok. It just needed some updates, but it took so long to update that I had to take her computer back to the hotel with me. I spent from 8pm to 10am doing nothing but running Windows Update. I had to get up every hour to check to see if a process had completed so I could reboot or do whatever I needed to proceed to the next step and after 14 hours, it still wasn't finished.

This should have been a scene in the movie Office Space. Everytime I get tempted to consider jumping ship, my wife reminds me of this incident.
[doublepost=1548110732][/doublepost]

Only from resellers that have stock. Mostly the 2015's that are available are refurbs. In most cases you can't get a 2015 with a dGPU. The ones still available are almost always ones with iGPUs.
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Widows 10 isn't by any means, even my 14 year old daughter manages and has no issue with a Surface Book. If people are clueless they will run into issues regardless. If the computer is taking over 14 hours to update, like as not there are other issues at hand. I updated from 1803 - 1809 upcountry Malaysia on a cellular network didn't take an hour. Or we can start talking about instability in OS X and endless clean installs to face the same issues...

Q-6
 
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maflynn said:
I think people have, and it really didn't improve things. I hadn't paid a lot of attention, but I vaguely recall if debris gets under that cover, then its more likely to be trapped and cause issues. Then there's the heat issue, as some of the heat evacuation occurs through the keyboard, finally its the feel of the keyboard. Something is wrong (at least in my mind), that after spending nearly 3,000 dollars you have to put on a cheesy silicon cover in an attempt to prevent the keyboard from breaking.

Now that I'm typing this, it occurred to me that's what apple did, just under the keys and that isn't helping, as we're getting more and more people posting that their 2018 keyboards are failing.
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my 2018 had "i" key failing with a keyboard cover on always when open (removed it when closed)

I think it's a QA/QC issue. It might be that in the 2018, it's not dust, but built-in silicone membrane that interfering with normal key operation.
I think the 2018 will look like this: they will develop issues super soon, or you probably wont get them with normal use.
 
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Ploki said:
I think it's a QA/QC issue. It might be that in the 2018, it's not dust, but built-in silicone membrane that interfering with normal key operation.
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My own feelings are that this is true. I believe that is why we are seeing more incidents of keys not responding to 1st, 2nd, 3rd, presses at times and also why some feel gummy or stuck when first pressed. From what I can gather, this seems to be more prevalent in the 2018 models. Again, just my own feelings on it, but I think by trying to fix one issue they have created another.
 
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Still hard to believe Apple couldn't find a better solution in 2018. The keyboard mechanism was introduced in 2015. They had time and financial resources.
 
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As time passes it's.so common it's ****ing disgusting. Shame on EVERYONE supporting Apple and calling us (just happened to few ones, don't eat blah blah).

Above there is a MacBook air 2018.
 
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Hadron said:
Because then the side profile couldn't be so thin.
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MacBook Air is thinner, and came with USB Type-A and MagSafe. An HDMI Connector isn’t thicker than a USB Type-A.

The newer power adapter is way worse than MagSafe. Have you seen how thick the cable is? You can no longer wrap it around the adapter like you can with MagSafe.

So the thinness isn’t because of the connectors, and you have to tote around a clumsier power brick and a bunch of dongles.

Maybe you’re a student and you don’t go between home office to work office to presentations in conference rooms, but for ordinary business use like I do, it’s a very inconvenience computer.
 
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Alameda said:
MacBook Air is thinner, and came with USB Type-A and MagSafe. An HDMI Connector isn’t thicker than a USB Type-A.

The newer power adapter is way worse than MagSafe. Have you seen how thick the cable is? You can no longer wrap it around the adapter like you can with MagSafe.

So the thinness isn’t because of the connectors, and you have to tote around a clumsier power brick and a bunch of dongles.

Maybe you’re a student and you don’t go between home office to work office to presentations in conference rooms, but for ordinary business use like I do, it’s a very inconvenience computer.
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I can’t wait for people to quit bringing this up.

The usb-c cable is thicker because there is more power going through it and it can support data. Coil the cable into a circular loop and toss it in a small pouch with the adapter. How difficult is that?

The new design doesn’t lead to fraying like MagSafe has for years, and the ability to charge your machine for either side is extremely convenient.

As for this entire mess of dongles, just get one small adapter that has hdmi, usb-a, etc etc. Apple has been all-in on usb-c for three years. The ports aren’t coming back.

I’m sorry, that the current Apple lineup won’t work for you. However, there are plenty of other manufacturers that still offer those ports that you want.

Edit: And I *do* use this for business daily. Complete with hdmi to projectors. Zero issues.
 
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csurfr said:
As for this entire mess of dongles, just get one small adapter that has hdmi, usb-a, etc etc. Apple has been all-in on usb-c for three years. The ports aren’t coming back.
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I'm really surprised that 3 years into this system, people still don't get how to use these computers. I have a pile of colleagues with a variety of MBPs and 2 rMB owners. The people who complain most about alleged donglegate don't have a USB-C machine. They're followed by a few owners who don't use any expansion at all.

Strangely, it's the people who are supposedly 'worst off' who complain the least. The macbook owners use a dongle to charge while at their desk and to connect to the screen and peripherals. It's one cable and everything is connected. This actually works much better for them, exactly because they're always running around to meetings and so on.

It's not a mess. It's a different paradigm and seemingly, this is hard for some to adapt to. I, on the other hand, would love to replace everything sticking out of my rMBP by a single cable.
 
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Alameda said:
MacBook Air is thinner, and came with USB Type-A and MagSafe. An HDMI Connector isn’t thicker than a USB Type-A.

The newer power adapter is way worse than MagSafe. Have you seen how thick the cable is? You can no longer wrap it around the adapter like you can with MagSafe.

So the thinness isn’t because of the connectors, and you have to tote around a clumsier power brick and a bunch of dongles.

Maybe you’re a student and you don’t go between home office to work office to presentations in conference rooms, but for ordinary business use like I do, it’s a very inconvenience computer.
Click to expand...
The nice thing about the power adapter now is that the cable from the adapter to the computer is swappable, so you can easily buy a cable that better suits your needs.
 
Cashmonee said:
This continues the trend of actual data that shows the 2016+ gen to be more reliable than older models and maintaining better reliability than PCs.

I think those that are buying 2015s and moving to PC for reliability are victims of YouTubers looking for clicks and several users crying that the sky is falling.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but having worked at multiple IT places to include the two major Universities here, Mac have a horrible reliability rate. I have seen and have myself PC's that are 15 years old and still going. AS for IBM, they have never been able to get over their grudge with Microsoft and will say anything. After all the hype over their deal with Apple you haven't heard anymore about it. And how many class action lawsuits have there been over Apple products? Burnt out logic boards, flickering screens, screens with the coating coming off, faulty GPUs... The list goes on and on. I refuse to buy new Apple Macs for this very reason, and I kept purchase of them at a minimum at both schools.
 
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PeterJP said:
I'm really surprised that 3 years into this system, people still don't get how to use these computers. I have a pile of colleagues with a variety of MBPs and 2 rMB owners. The people who complain most about alleged donglegate don't have a USB-C machine. They're followed by a few owners who don't use any expansion at all.

Strangely, it's the people who are supposedly 'worst off' who complain the least. The macbook owners use a dongle to charge while at their desk and to connect to the screen and peripherals. It's one cable and everything is connected. This actually works much better for them, exactly because they're always running around to meetings and so on.

It's not a mess. It's a different paradigm and seemingly, this is hard for some to adapt to. I, on the other hand, would love to replace everything sticking out of my rMBP by a single cable.
Click to expand...

I really do appreciate Thunderbolt 3 for this very ability. At my desk, it is one cable into a HengeDocks Stone that gives me my monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, and ethernet. The closest my 2013 ever came to that was using a Thunderbolt Display, and while that was nice, I find this solution far better.
 
Just recieved my Magic Keyboard space gray. It has much less travel than the 2012-2015 MBP and i think it's a joy to type on doesn't seem all that thick. I don't know why they didn't choose this design for the laptops.
 
Hey all here's my experience so far with a faulty 3rd gen keyboard
  • Originally purchased Aug. 2018 (2.6GHZ/16GB/RP560X/512GB).
  • Space bar started repeating characters in early January.
  • Went to an Apple store visit on 1/19 - they replaced the key in store but this did not fix the issue.
  • The laptop was sent for repairs on 1/19, then on 1/23 received an email that they would like to offer a new replacement instead so they can keep the faulty one for evaluation and research the problem more.
  • The replacement they offered was the exact same spec wise, I asked if could upgrade and pay the difference and surprisingly they did not hesitate.
  • Opted to upgrade to the Vega 20 GPU for $310
  • A new unit being shipped out today
Fingers crossed this new one is fine!
 
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