Gen 3 butterfly keyboard

[537635]

Before I bought my first Mac in 2012 I used a Lenovo Thinkpad. When in clamshell mode, I used Apple Magic Keyboard (in my opinion the only keyboard that trumps Thinkpad's).

Now that's an irony that just makes me wanna cry.

 

[zx48k]

My experience so far, with a MBP 15" 2018 2.6GHz/16GB RAM/560X/512GB SSD:

• Purchased in August, UK keyboard. Running almost exclusively in clamshell mode, keyboard had maybe 15 days of actual use.
  
• Issue with the Left Command key getting sticky, and registering only about half of the keypresses.
• Sent it for repair Jan 24 after waiting about a week for the appointment. One and a half hours waiting time at the store, was given a turnaround time 7-10 days, due to them not having a new top case.
• The parts haven't arrived after the 10 days, and they couldn't give me a new expected date. No updates, I had to call the store for them to tell me.

 

[navaira]

Seems highly improbably that on user would see 6 keyboards fails so quickly. It there something unique in your environment or usage case?

I suppose he types.

I am fairly certain @navaira had 5 in a row with issues before bailing and jumping ship.

Correct. I think the longest one lasted was 15 days, and as mentioned above the E key was always the first to go. I have never had the T2 kernel panic, so I guess – always look on the bright side of death? I guess my use case might be unusual – I was working on a novel and some articles. I finished that novel on the Yoga C930 (Scrivener for Windows is a nightmare though) which is the same weight as 13.3" MBP and has a 13.9" screen, non-condomed keyboard, built-in pen, and a ****** trackpad.

I've seen those new patents (yes, I know how many patents Apple has) with haptic feedback keyboards and I have to say I am at least interested. The haptic feedback on Macbook/Pro/Air trackpads is magical, I found myself using force click just because I was amazed at how it's done. If they can somehow make the keyboards feel that good I might come back. Once the computers are out for a year or so and there are no reports of the haptic feedback failing under the glass E key

I'm also amazed at the amount of new articles that still say that the third generation "most probably fixed all the keyboard issues". Those articles were not written on new MBPs/Airs.

 

[zx48k]

My experience so far, with a MBP 15" 2018 2.6GHz/16GB RAM/560X/512GB SSD:

• Purchased in August, UK keyboard. Running almost exclusively in clamshell mode, keyboard had maybe 15 days of actual use.
  
• Issue with the Left Command key getting sticky, and registering only about half of the keypresses.
• Sent it for repair Jan 24 after waiting about a week for the appointment. One and a half hours waiting time at the store, was given a turnaround time 7-10 days, due to them not having a new top case.
• The parts haven't arrived after the 10 days, and they couldn't give me a new expected date. No updates, I had to call the store for them to tell me.

Just got a call from Apple, saying my MBP is now ready, and that no top case was actually changed, despite it being clearly stated in the Work Authorization that they would replace it.
All they did was clean the faulty key. They claim the top case was only ordered in case there's an issue while cleaning the keyboard...

 

[Queen6]

Just got a call from Apple, saying my MBP is now ready, and that no top case was actually changed, despite it being clearly stated in the Work Authorization that they would replace it.
All they did was clean the faulty key. They claim the top case was only ordered in case there's an issue while cleaning the keyboard...

Well that will likely be going back in the near future, as others have experienced...

Q-6

 

[537635]

Just got a call from Apple, saying my MBP is now ready, and that no top case was actually changed, despite it being clearly stated in the Work Authorization that they would replace it.
All they did was clean the faulty key. They claim the top case was only ordered in case there's an issue while cleaning the keyboard...

So you're saying you've been without the computer for 2 weeks and they only cleaned the key. So in one month time when it fails again (or a different one ) you'll have to do it all over? That's... not good.

 

[T1M_MC]

Just got a call from Apple, saying my MBP is now ready, and that no top case was actually changed, despite it being clearly stated in the Work Authorization that they would replace it.
All they did was clean the faulty key. They claim the top case was only ordered in case there's an issue while cleaning the keyboard...

I currently have the same issue with my d key repeating two or three times and I have booked a genius bar appointment.
Might be a strange question but did they ask for proof of purchase when you gave it in?

 

[zx48k]

So you're saying you've been without the computer for 2 weeks and they only cleaned the key. So in one month time when it fails again (or a different one ) you'll have to do it all over? That's... not good.

Assuming it's actually working... I'll find out soon.
[doublepost=1549384582][/doublepost]

I currently have the same issue with my d key repeating two or three times and I have booked a genius bar appointment.
Might be a strange question but did they ask for proof of purchase when you gave it in?

No, they only got the serial number IIRC.

 

[SBruv]

Just got a call from Apple, saying my MBP is now ready, and that no top case was actually changed, despite it being clearly stated in the Work Authorization that they would replace it.
All they did was clean the faulty key. They claim the top case was only ordered in case there's an issue while cleaning the keyboard...

Sorry… are you saying they took TEN ****ING DAYS to clean a key?!

 

[zx48k]

Sorry… are you saying they took TEN ****ING DAYS to clean a key?!

11 actually

 

[Howard2k]

11 actually

I bet it sparkles like a supernova.

 

[Queen6]

11 actually

Just no, would cost more in down time multiple times over. Yes I have backup systems.

Q-6

 

[KarmaRocket]

11 actually

I do hope you complained about this. That is just ridiculous.

I would complain and ask for a refund. They won't give it to you but at least have it on record. If it happens again, you complain and ask again. 11 days without my main work computer I would be out of a job. Ask for a refund and complain you are losing money from the downtime without a machine. At least ask them to upgrade you to the Vega 20 (if you really need/want it) for the inconvenience.

They are probably losing a boat load of money on these repairs. If they made the MBP easily accessible and repairable they wouldn't have these issues. The only way Apple learns from their mistakes is if you make them suffer monetarily.

 

[zx48k]

I do hope you complained about this. That is just ridiculous.

I would complain and ask for a refund. They won't give it to you but at least have it on record. If it happens again, you complain and ask again. 11 days without my main work computer I would be out of a job. Ask for a refund and complain you are losing money from the downtime without a machine. At least ask them to upgrade you to the Vega 20 (if you really need/want it) for the inconvenience.

They are probably losing a boat load of money on these repairs. If they made the MBP easily accessible and repairable they wouldn't have these issues. The only way Apple learns from their mistakes is if you make them suffer monetarily.

My very clean Left Command key is actually working the same or worse than before.
The Apple employee was surprised that I was told on the phone that they cleaned the key as opposed to replacing the top case, as per Work Authorization. He went to check it they still had the top case in stock, but it wasn’t available. So they gave me an estimate of getting the part by end of the week plus 24/48h labor. This will put repair time at least 17 days since I took the MBP to the store.
I have asked if a refund, replacement, upgrade or store credit can be given as compensation, and was denied all of them. A loan machine is also not possible, I was suggested I could buy a new MBP and then return it...

 

[idonthatethemac]

My very clean Left Command key is actually working the same or worse than before.
The Apple employee was surprised that I was told on the phone that they cleaned the key as opposed to replacing the top case, as per Work Authorization. He went to check it they still had the top case in stock, but it wasn’t available. So they gave me an estimate of getting the part by end of the week plus 24/48h labor. This will put repair time at least 17 days since I took the MBP to the store.
I have asked if a refund, replacement, upgrade or store credit can be given as compensation, and was denied all of them. A loan machine is also not possible, I was suggested I could buy a new MBP and then return it...

How can Apple even sustain all these costs? Especially with all tje current issues on the table.

 

[Martius]

How can Apple even sustain all these costs? Especially with all tje current issues on the table.

We might be surprised how much those repairs actually cost. They might not be that expensive for Apple.

From what I have read in this post, I'm starting to be sure that the keyboard issues are related to the heat that is coming from CPU / GPU. It would be interesting to see this experiment: same two MBPs (2018). One used just for basic stuff and one used for rendering/video production (both in clamshell mode). I think that the keyboard on the unit used for heavy work would develop those issues much sooner.

 

[SDColorado]

I have been communicating with another forum member via PM, trying to help him out in a small way with some contacts who have helped me out with issues on my machines. He can discuss more publically if he wants to, but the gist is this...

Apparently, Apple has had his machine for 3 weeks. He sent it to them for repeated and continued T2 crashes as well as keyboard issues. It took them nearly 2 weeks to even begin the "repair" and after week 3 told him that they were unable to duplicate the issue he was having with 3 keys. He informed them that he sent it in primarily for the T2 issues and that the keyboard was an addition to the primary issue. But it appears they have done nothing to address either issue in those 3 weeks.

He mentioned to them that he understood that the issue with the keyboard would not always be reproducible, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. He asked, that since they already have a keyboard program in place for the 2016/17 models and are aware of issues with the 2018 models, why they wouldn't just go ahead and repair/replace the keyboard while they had it rather than have it be sent back in when it fails again. Apparently, the response was that if they were to do that, people would take advantage of that repair. I am not sure I understand Apple's logic there. Why would anyone with a keyboard that is working perfectly "take advantage" of that kind of repair and send in their laptop for 3 weeks only to risk a keyboard that might fail rather than keeping their machine with a good keyboard? <smdh>

So apparently the machine is now finally on the way back, but no evidence they did anything to address the keyboard issue or the T2 issues. The notes said they could not replicate the keyboard issue, no notes addressing the T2 issue.

When he asked specifically what was done the response was "we don't provide that as most customers don't want to / need to know as it just leads to confusion."

My guess is that it is being returned with nothing done. Maybe a shine and a keyboard blowout? Hopefully, that isn't the case. ┐( ͡° ʖ̯ ͡°)┌

TLDR: It can be worse than 11 days apparently.

 

[cherrybombaz]

I also have had the repeating key issues on my 2018 13" MacBook Pro (after two months the "t" key started sporadically inputting "tt"), but my repair experience has been good so far. I was worried that they would have problems duplicating the issue because it doesn't happen all the time, but maybe 1/10 key presses. I called Apple on Friday and they sent a box on Saturday. I sent it to back to their repair depot the same day and I have my laptop today after they replaced the top case.

 

[zx48k]

We might be surprised how much those repairs actually cost. They might not be that expensive for Apple.

From what I have read in this post, I'm starting to be sure that the keyboard issues are related to the heat that is coming from CPU / GPU. It would be interesting to see this experiment: same two MBPs (2018). One used just for basic stuff and one used for rendering/video production (both in clamshell mode). I think that the keyboard on the unit used for heavy work would develop those issues much sooner.

I agree, it's definitely easier to reproduce the issue when the MBP is being used for a while.

 

[AJB1971]

I have been communicating with another forum member via PM, trying to help him out in a small way with some contacts who have helped me out with issues on my machines. He can discuss more publically if he wants to, but the gist is this...

Apparently, Apple has had his machine for 3 weeks. He sent it to them for repeated and continued T2 crashes as well as keyboard issues. It took them nearly 2 weeks to even begin the "repair" and after week 3 told him that they were unable to duplicate the issue he was having with 3 keys. He informed them that he sent it in primarily for the T2 issues and that the keyboard was an addition to the primary issue. But it appears they have done nothing to address either issue in those 3 weeks.

He mentioned to them that he understood that the issue with the keyboard would not always be reproducible, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. He asked, that since they already have a keyboard program in place for the 2016/17 models and are aware of issues with the 2018 models, why they wouldn't just go ahead and repair/replace the keyboard while they had it rather than have it be sent back in when it fails again. Apparently, the response was that if they were to do that, people would take advantage of that repair. I am not sure I understand Apple's logic there. Why would anyone with a keyboard that is working perfectly "take advantage" of that kind of repair and send in their laptop for 3 weeks only to risk a keyboard that might fail rather than keeping their machine with a good keyboard? <smdh>

So apparently the machine is now finally on the way back, but no evidence they did anything to address the keyboard issue or the T2 issues. The notes said they could not replicate the keyboard issue, no notes addressing the T2 issue.

When he asked specifically what was done the response was "we don't provide that as most customers don't want to / need to know as it just leads to confusion."

My guess is that it is being returned with nothing done. Maybe a shine and a keyboard blowout? Hopefully, that isn't the case. ┐( ͡° ʖ̯ ͡°)┌

TLDR: It can be worse than 11 days apparently.

I had a similar case with my iPad 2 where Apple returned the device without repairing it as they said that they couldn’t find a problem with it. I did end up getting that sorted out.

When I had a problem with my iPad Pro 9.7 which was difficult to see and hear, I decided to video it to avoid a similar situation. I emailed the video to the Apple representative dealing with my case and asked for a note to be placed on file so that the engineer could refer to it if necessary.

I had to compress the video so that it was less than 2Mb in size for the Apple representative to be able to view it.

 

[smirking]

Right now I am using it with a 15" 2014 rMBP. I have been thinking about an upgrade but after reading this thread and others, I may just get a Mac Mini and keep the 2014 for when I need a computer away from my desk.

If you're a fan of mechanical keyboards, you might actually like the tbMBP style keyboards once you get used to them. You really need at least a fully week of heavy typing on them to get the hang of them because it's such a different design from anything else out there. I absolutely hated them at first, but they grew on me. They have a tactility that you just aren't going to find anywhere else. I'd much rather have a mechanical keyboard regardless, but if I do need to use a laptop keyboard, I prefer the butterfly keys to most scissor switches.

 

[maflynn]

If you're a fan of mechanical keyboards, you might actually like the tbMBP style keyboards once you get used to them.

Not for me, I have Das Keyboard and switching between the MBP and that is night and day. I never fully embraced the butterfly keyboard, I tolerated it, but I never enjoyed it. Conversely the Thinkpad's keyboard feels closer to an actual mechanical keyboard, at least the key caps feel better, the travel is longer, the spacing feels more natural.

 

[smirking]

Not for me, I have Das Keyboard and switching between the MBP and that is night and day. I never fully embraced the butterfly keyboard, I tolerated it, but I never enjoyed it. Conversely the Thinkpad's keyboard feels closer to an actual mechanical keyboard, at least the key caps feel better, the travel is longer, the spacing feels more natural.

Hey, I keep asking other people about the current Thinkpad keyboards and nobody's answered me yet. What exactly feels different about them to you? I found a Thinkpad at Costco and found the keyboard to be standard issue laptop scissor switches. It seemed a lot like a squishier version of a unibody MBP keyboard to me. Did I miss something? Are the keyboards on the higher end models better than what I'd find at Costco?

I was really disappointed because I had longed for a Thinkpad back when it was made by IBM and loved the keyboards on those. They were the only laptop keyboards I actually liked.

 

[maflynn]

. What exactly feels different about them to you? I found a Thinkpad at Costco and found the keyboard to be standard issue laptop scissor switches

They are in fact scissors but I think its a combination of things that combine to an overall pleasing experience. I kind of touched upon that in my earlier post, but I'll put it together in a more cohesive post, instead of my typical rambling post

Keycaps, they're curved and not flat. The spacing between the keys are a little better they're not so squished in. The key travel is longer then many other laptop keys and there's a crispness at the bottom of the press. Not a click like a mechanical keyboard, since its quiet, but there's a noticeable clicking feel if you will when you fully depress a key. Other laptop keys can feel a bit mush as you press them.

The butterfly keyboard is memory serves me didn't have a mushy feel, but the travel was incredibly short, and the space might have been tighter as well.

If I had my druthers, I'd type on a mechanical keyboard, but the Lenovo is known for great keyboards and the X1E didn't disappoint.

 

[zen]

Not for me, I have Das Keyboard and switching between the MBP and that is night and day. I never fully embraced the butterfly keyboard, I tolerated it, but I never enjoyed it. Conversely the Thinkpad's keyboard feels closer to an actual mechanical keyboard, at least the key caps feel better, the travel is longer, the spacing feels more natural.

Agreed. I've been using my wife's ThinkPad X1 Yoga, and the keyboard on that is as close to a full mechanical keyboard on a laptop that I have yet experienced. On my desktop, I use a Ducky Shine 5 with Cherry MX Blue switches, and to say the X1 Yoga comes close to that feel is, really, quite remarkable.