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Quick update. As most of you now know, the 2018 keyboards with the silicone underneath are not perceptibly quieter than before (sadly). What I would recommend for anyone with pre-2018 butterflys is to buy one of those super thin silicone keyboard covers as a dust defense. You're basically doing the same patch - just putting the layer above instead of below. It costs just $10-$30, and gives you piece of mind. Plus, I'm sure the keyboard issue is one of the reasons you can save up to $1,700 on these models while they last.

Then get the flickering and stagelight because of Flexgate? The cable is simply too short, and is now fixed in 2018, so don't buy a 16-17 machine. I had my 2016 machines in service all the time, so not worth the hassle.

On paper, yes, good, but not when you account for all the hassle it is to get stuff serviced.

ONE LAST THING!
The keyboard feels cheap because it is cheap???
 
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In some countries like mine you can't buy custom thinkpad, precision, elitebook, so there are no screen options besides default FHD ones. Huawei is not present at all. Dell Xps 9370 i5 FHD model with 8gb ram costs around 2000eur, 4k model with i7 and 16gb 2700eur. So, if you're not doing heavy tasks and need a light laptop with great screen, MBP 2017 nTB isn't such a bad deal for 1400EUR and two years warranty. If there weren't reliability issues...
 
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In some countries like mine you can't buy custom thinkpad, precision, elitebook, so there are no screen options besides default FHD ones. Huawei is not present at all. Dell Xps 9370 i5 FHD model with 8gb ram costs around 2000eur, 4k model with i7 and 16gb 2700eur. So, if you're not doing heavy tasks and need a light laptop with great screen, MBP 2017 nTB isn't such a bad deal for 1400EUR and two years warranty. If there weren't reliability issues...

Just wanted to share my struggles, but I would rather pay an additional 1000 dollar if it meant I didn't have to service it in like five years.
 
What the Mac did was groundbreaking in many ways for consumers, that they made it easy to import photos and film, then manipulate and make stuff look "pro" very easy. Again, FaceBook came along and made sharing photos much easier, as they had the list of friends to share it with and the upload was easy. You could share whenever and whatever you want, then the recipients could view the content when time allowed them instead that you had to send through mail or code a HTML page.

The consumer web/app world is very much Apple/*nix centric, but I guess the Mac is in a personality crisis. I almost prefer to type on my iPhone, now that I've had the touch screen for ten years in my hands for many hours each day. Most of my mails are short, so I don't need a laptop for that. Of course there are solutions out there that need custom code, and the last programming job I did was on a Windows 10 desktop. It look a little bit dirtier, but when you are in the codezone, you don't care about the platform, it is about the code.

The Surface series trackpad sucks, but the keyboard is brilliant. The opposite of is true of the MacBook series. I some times like the keyboard, but it is not what I would really want. The packaging, which is 80% of a product, lacks. You don't know what you get when a new Mac is released, and there is more colors and bells than features and stability. It's hard to build a steady relationship with the Mac, since the release cycles are uneven, the features are so different across the hardware. In fact the Lenovo C930 looks more futuristic than any MacBook. I have to admit, I am sometimes envious of Windows users.

What Apple has done is let is let us all down, it's now the "Big Blue" Apple get off your arse and grow a pair, stop talking and do it. The Mac is little more than a joke it's your heritage that your pissing on and we don't appreciate it for one second.

Step up or Step out. Personally I push the boundaries, I'm recognised for it. FFS we deserve far more. As for speaking directly, pointless as Apple clearly doesn't want to hear any constructive feedback.

Another customer lost...

Q-6
 
It's absolutely true, but unfortunately it hasn't started recently.
When iPhone became successful Apple stopped paying attention to their pro clients and this included Steve Jobs.
They did so many stupid things like buying pro software just to kill it (remember Color or even Shake?),
or spending time and energy on the new pro products and never finished (Flame competition team
in Santa Monica, working for years). They never fixed simple issues like QT gamma shift - the most annoying bug
many people had to "fix" by applying some settings on export to offset it, etc.
Then they killed FCP, probably they didn't want to pay the high salaries of the support team.

This so much! What they did to Final Cut and Aperture simply floored me at the time. They had a good thing going. Final Cut was the industry standard. After purchased them Apple was the primary platform in the professional film industry... Not any more, they just gave it away with the dumbing down of Final Cut 7 to Final Cut X, and boy do I remember the uproar as they didn't warn customers.
 
LMFAO APPLE IS DONE! MY 2018 VEGA MBP KEYBOARD 'BROKE' 4 MONTHS IN.

THE GENIUS TRIED TO CLEAN IT BUT THE KEY ENDED UP WORSE, IT DOESNT HAVE TACTILE FEEDBACK LIKE THE OTHE KEYS.

Coincidentally it was the top qwerty keys which broke which is also common I see.

oh yeah, my mac flickers too! OH BABY!
 
Apple repairs the keyboard by replacing the upper half of the laptop. Is the upper half that they use for replacement, a brand new part or is it a refurbished part ?
 
Apple repairs the keyboard by replacing the upper half of the laptop. Is the upper half that they use for replacement, a brand new part or is it a refurbished part ?

The keyboard itself is non-repairable and it is also riveted in the (upper part) case of the laptop with countless rivets. IMO that doesn't seem very 'refurbisheable' to me ;)
 
The keyboard itself is non-repairable and it is also riveted in the (upper part) case of the laptop with countless rivets. IMO that doesn't seem very 'refurbisheable' to me ;)

I was wondering if Apple just tries to clean the keyboard before sending the upper case out as a replacement. It might explain why some people have no problems while others have multiple keyboard issues (i.e. people are getting upper cases that previously had keyboard issues).

I could see Apple having some top cases from the 2018 MacBook Pro (it's being produced now) but I can't see Apple currently producing top cases for 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro. I also can't see Apple having a stockpile left of 2016 / 2017 MacBook Pro top cases with all the keyboard replacement they have had.

This leaves me to believe that Apple is recycling the top cases it gets back (and recycling the keyboard issues).
 
Thought I'd throw my two cents in.

I actually had a 2017 non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro previously. Decided to sell the 2017 and upgrade to the 2018 13" specifically to avoid the keyboard issues plaguing the 16/17 models.

But of course, a few months into ownership, the issues began. First had issues in November/December with display cloudiness, so I took that in and got an entirely new unit being a BTO. Then 2 months after *this* replacement, I experienced double presses with the t key; took *that* in for "cleaning". Then it spread to the o and u keys and ended up having to ship the computer out for repairs. Got pretty fed up at this point, so I figured I'd sell the computer once I got it back from repairs.

In light of the long turnaround (it was a BTO, they would have had to order a whole new one), Apple did me a favor and replaced my 13" with a comparatively specced 15". Was awfully nice of them and was happy for about a week... except I got the same double press issue with E, T, O, and U keys. So THAT went to repairs and just got it back today; hoping it's finally fixed once and for all, but I'm doubtful.

If I keep having this issue, I'm honestly inclined to sell the damn computer and be done with it. Literally the only reason I didn't do it after I got the 15" was because it was a nice upgrade. But at the rate I've been sending computers back, I'm starting to think it ain't worth the hassle.

Apple needs to get its **** together. Period.

EDIT: The problems don't end. Got to using it just now and while the keyboard issue is fixed, the screen hinge is now loose. And it DEFINITELY WAS NOT before the repair. Already made the appointment to get this taken care of.

I'm really getting fed up with Apple.
 
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ive had my 13" since january now, and it seems to be working fine. most of the 2018 models seem to be developing issues few months into use, or dont.

i hope the 13" will be fine, the returned 15" developed issues in 2nd month.
 
ive had my 13" since january now, and it seems to be working fine. most of the 2018 models seem to be developing issues few months into use, or dont.

i hope the 13" will be fine, the returned 15" developed issues in 2nd month.

Your 15" had issues 2 months in? What exactly was the issue?
 
Apple repairs the keyboard by replacing the upper half of the laptop. Is the upper half that they use for replacement, a brand new part or is it a refurbished part ?

I had the top case of my 2016 15" replaced after a year. Apple put in a new 2017 key board and a new battery (glued in the top case). Very few problems after that.
 
Just sent my MBP15 in for spacebar, touchpad and touchbar isuues - touchbar and touchpad hangs after prolong usage and spacebar sometimes doesnt register or appears twice.

Wish me luck!
 
I could see Apple having some top cases from the 2018 MacBook Pro (it's being produced now) but I can't see Apple currently producing top cases for 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro. I also can't see Apple having a stockpile left of 2016 / 2017 MacBook Pro top cases with all the keyboard replacement they have had.

This is a tricky one. There is absolutely no way Apple is refurbishing keyboards. Keys are the first part of computer, which gets irreparably damaged by daily use. Keys get polished by oils from the skin.

So yes, the poor Apple needs to be still producing 2017 keyboars in large quantities.
 
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This is a tricky one. There is absolutely no way Apple is refurbishing keyboards. Keys are the first part of computer, which gets irreparably damaged by daily use. Keys get polished by oils from the skin.

So yes, the poor Apple needs to be still producing 2017 keyboars in large quantities.

Recently found out my friend has repeating keys on a 2017 15". What a shame this issue is affecting so many people.
 
Recently found out my friend has repeating keys on a 2017 15". What a shame this issue is affecting so many people.
Indeed, and to be honest, I was like sitting on pins and needles. I'd rather use and enjoy my computer then worry if the keyboard is about to fail. Gone are the days of it just works, and given the high price of these laptops, its not something I'm willing to accept.
 
I think the winner is still the lady whose Macbook Air 2018 developed problems 4 days in, or did someone beat her record by now? My 10 days are nothing in comparison, "boo".

Keyboard issues 4 days in? Wow. I had my first T-2 crash on initial setup, but haven't had a keyboard issue within 4 or even 10 days yet. One made it a few outside of the 14 days return and this one a couple of months. But so far my "fix" of mashing it until it started to work again has been holding (knock on aluminum).
 
Really sorry about everyones problems. It would seem Apple would have tested the keys by some mechanical method to estimate mean time between failures. Could it be a manufacturing problem due to tolerances? Maybe the design is workable but the tolerances are too close. If the right combinations fall into place the mechanism fails. This might explain why we are seeing failures so early on ownership.
 
Indeed, and to be honest, I was like sitting on pins and needles. I'd rather use and enjoy my computer then worry if the keyboard is about to fail. Gone are the days of it just works, and given the high price of these laptops, its not something I'm willing to accept.

I'm simply not in a position to afford such issues. Call me "old school" I rather expect more, when I pay more, as that's what premium's about is it not...

Q-6
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Really sorry about everyones problems. It would seem Apple would have tested the keys by some mechanical method to estimate mean time between failures. Could it be a manufacturing problem due to tolerances? Maybe the design is workable but the tolerances are too close. If the right combinations fall into place the mechanism fails. This might explain why we are seeing failures so early on ownership.

As a quality professional it's very obvious Apple cut corners and did not adequately qualify the Butterfly Keyboard. Very likely it met specific criteria; Allows a lower chassis height & reduced manufacturing cost, the rest history. Burning bridges and all, once Apple was held in high esteem, today not so much...

Q-6
 
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Yesterday I called Apple to arrange for a service. My history with butterflies so far:

December 2016 - purchased MBP 15
May 2017 - keyboard starts failing - sticky keys (topcase replaced in August)
November 2017 - keyboard starts failing - sticky keys (topcase replaced in December)
December 2017 - keyboard start failing right after service - dead key (replaced in January 2018)
May 2018 - keyboard starts failing again - sticky keys (Apple replaces entire laptop with a 2018 model)

January 2019 - occasional double key presses start creeping up


And they told me they've never heard of keyboard failing before and this most probably is a software issue.

This should be a reminder to everyone that good hardware and services can be quite short lasting if the wrong person is in charge. Apple is just a shadow of what it was 5 years ago in terms of user experience.
 
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