They definitely won’t replace gen 2 keyboards with gen 3 keyboards, that’s for sure.
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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
- Thread starter Lastgreen
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That is just ridiculous. So they are gonna replace the same *****y keyboard with another *****y one... I’ve about had it with Apple. I’ve been a big fan of them for over 12 years.
There wasn't one moment. I was travelling for work; no issues. When I got home, I noticed the D key felt weird. All the keys are sort of shallow, but there was zero spring in it. I asked my wife to test it (non-computer person) and she realized right away there was something wrong with that key. I tried the compressed air thing--no help.
It's a real bummer because I thought these keyboards felt a lot better and would have fewer issues, but nope! I do have AppleCare, but it's crazy they have to send it out for a week to a week and a half. Actually, borderline infuriating it takes that long. It's a known issue---they should see if they can equip the stores to change the top casing. If this were my ONLY computer, I'd end up losing money, as I use these things for work.
Also--if you don't have AppleCare or are out of warranty, here is the cost:
Labor Charge, IB/MB,MBAIR $100.00
Flat rate 2 repair charge MB/MBAIR/MBP13 $375.00
Total (Tax Not Included) $475.00.
I bought this machine on August 1st, so it is under warranty and as I said, AppleCare.
I have had a couple of the 2018's with keyboard issues. The first one that had keyboard issues had several become unresponsive, all in the same area as the "E". S,W,E,D if I recall. I would have to tap them 2 or 3 times to get them to respond. The "8" key was also sticky, require more force to push.
This one has had an issue where the "E" key became completely unresponsive. I finally "fixed" it by mashing the key hard and repeatedly several times. It finally started working again, but I have little faith it will be a permanent "fix." I do blow out the keyboard with compressed air periodically, but I am convinced dust has little to do with the issue.
I have contacted Apple all the way through Executive Relations with someone calling me "on behalf of Tim Cook." Aside from the Executive Relations person finding my mashing the key to "fix" it amusing and laughing about it (can't say I was amused myself having just spent $4500 on it 2 months prior), not much else was accomplished other than letting me know if I have further issues with it that my Apple Care warranty will cover it.
Definitely best to purchase Apple Care with these and definitely have a plan B.
It's what Apple does, same happened with the 15" dGPU failures. Apple just wants the cheapest option for itself, not the best for the customers. Until a court of law forces Apple at great cost to replace every single unit with one that works as advertised Apple will continue this poor behaviour and continue to BS it's customers...
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I'd rather say there's better options as long as your not locked in to OS X. Unfortunately in your case Apple has the money and no inclination to reimburse and if you sell it, someone else just ends up with the issue and Apple remains happy as it still has the money.
This is why I refuse to purchase one, for $4,250 before tax I'd be stuck with no return policy, stuck with a basic 12 month warranty on a product with a known design flaw that can take up to 10 days to be repaired Pro my Arse...
Q-6
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I‘m convinced this issue is actually caused by the heat the machine is delevoping while being pushed or just moderately pushed, melting or deforming the metal/plastic parts of the keyboard mechanism, causing the keys to become „sticky“ or unresponsive.
I refuse to believe it’s actually just dust particles.
Might be why most people’s problem keys are in the same region.
And why pro‘s who push their machines experience this problem more often than the casual crowd who does not push it that hard.
I refuse to believe it’s actually just dust particles.
Might be why most people’s problem keys are in the same region.
And why pro‘s who push their machines experience this problem more often than the casual crowd who does not push it that hard.
Apple basically just treats it's customers like idiots, and likes it that way. Go into any Apple Store and the keyboard fiasco will be unheard of despite extended warranty and growing public awareness. It's a design flaw Apple just wants to brush under the rug, and of course pushing blame to the user is the de facto answer...
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I think this is one factor, not the heat deforming specifically, but the deliciate design of the butterfly mechinism is to fragile for day to day usage. I won't deny that heat could play role in the problem
Dust is still a factor, its hard to deny the ifixit videos showing how the keys fail with the smallest amount of debris.
The compressed air "fix" is worthless and I agree---the issue isn't dust. I don't eat over the machine and keep it in a clean environment--I think these keyboards are just prone to breaking. Complete design defect.
Completely agree. I think you could use these in an enclosed capsule with nothing but air in the room and still break.
My opinion as well. I don't eat near it. I wipe down the keyboard area with a microfiber to remove any stray dust/lint that might accumulate and use compressed air, but the result is keyboard issues on 2 2018 units.
In reality, though the whole process is patently absurd. As is the whole self-analysis procedure we are forcing ourselves to do by examining how we baby the things with kid gloves as if they are some delicate flower, rather than a mobile computer.
These are mobile devices and meant to be used in a mobile work environment. That means out of the filtered clean room, out of the office, out of the home, used outdoors, on the road, while traveling, etc.
I have never had to do anything like this on any prior Apple or PC brand computer in my life. I still have a couple of Dell's dating back to 2002/2003 and the keyboards work perfectly. Past Macs I have owned never had they keyboard issues. I have a Surface Pro I pack on my motorcycle and throw in a dusty pannier, take down dirt roads and use it outdoors exposing it to dirt, dust, ash, food, etc. I don't care what gets on that SP keyboard cover, because it is easy and "cheap" to replace if it fails. But going on 2 years, it still hasn't.
IMHO, these kinds of issues with the 2016-18 MacBook Pro are unacceptable in a machine costing this much money. It is sad when a $129 Surface Pro keyboard cover has been proving itself to be more dependable and reliable and bulletproof for daily use.
Agreed, I was treating the 2018 MBP like a ming vase from ancient China, and at some point, I thought to myself, what am I doing. I've said this probably more in passing, in the past but I a measure of peace of mind.
Exactly and well said. I don't know what the future will hold and maybe I'll be tempted by the 16" MBP that's being rumored, but in all honesty I don't see that happening.
Definitely not. I’ve still got my late 2013 MBP and find that i’m not very fond of the idea of selling it. It’s a joy to type on and I even like the old style track pad better at times. I agree it’s an awesome laptop.
But the thin, light design of the 2017 is much more portable. And the ability to add a external USB-c video card is just awesome. Speakers are also great, so I don’t think I could go back.
That being said, i’m Loving my iPad Pro (typing on it now) and have zero issues with it. I’m seriously considering this as my only portable and perhaps getting a 5k imac. I’m challenging myself to try this for a bit and I’ll decide soon.
I was just thinking the same thing. People act as if Apple has changed. The bottom line is when it comes to dealing with product failures, Apple has always only done something when forced to do something. This is occurred way back in the 80s with the original Mac that caught fire (bad power supplies) and display coil failures. In the 90s power supply failures, and overheating shutdowns, etc. And in 2010s, GPU failures, screen de-lamination, keyboards, etc. This is not a new Tim Cook issue. it is baked into the company's DNA.
You know I recently started feeling the same way. I am beginning to realize how absurd it is with how much I baby my 2017 MBP. I mean granted it’s in mint and looks beautiful, but why should have to baby it so much.
No other laptop I’ve had I have felt so obligated to coddle out of fear of breaking it, and that’s a sad statement of the condition of the current gen MBP. I was careful, always have been, with my computers, but not to the extent I feel I am with my computer now.
I agree it's always been that way and until Apple is compelled by a court of law to actually correct the issue, Apple will continue the same behaviour. Problem being now issues are becoming more wide spread...
Had my way I'd force Apple to deliver as advertised, not replace same flawed design over and over, as many of the issues Mac's have incurred over the years are heavily related to design. God forbid Apple ever do seriously get into vehicles, as they currently are incapable of designing a reliable keyboard, as you say it's in the DNA...
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Agreed. When I had those phone calls with executive relations, had they offered me a refund rather than chuckling about my means of "fixing" the latest keyboard flaw. I have to admit I would have agreed and jumped ship with no regrets. But as it is, make the best of it until I see what Apple introduces for 2019 or if another product such as the Studio S capture my fantasy and take my lumps in a sale "as is" including Apple Care +
As some of you know, I'm off MacBooks at the moment and back on a Hackintosh for now.
I've actually just ordered a Thinkpad USB keyboard to enjoy for a bit.
I'm excited about it, despite the qualms some have in reviews.
Heck - only $50 shipped and a very generous return policy.
I've actually just ordered a Thinkpad USB keyboard to enjoy for a bit.
I'm excited about it, despite the qualms some have in reviews.
Heck - only $50 shipped and a very generous return policy.
It's just loony isn't it? As soon as you mention problems the questions from some members start "Have you used it outside?" "Have you used it while eating?" "How clean do you keep your house?"
Then your own self doubt start to creep in. Did I eat near it once? I don't think so. Maybe just a pretzel? Perhaps? Should I have let my dogs upstairs? Do I need to vacuum my carpet and dust the floors, shelves, cabinets more often. Do I need to have a maid service come twice a week? Wait... what the heck am I doing?? This is nuts!
I just can't believe this is our new reality, that we are actually discussing things like pretzel crumps, motes of dust, outdoor use and pets regarding something that should be *almost* drop dead reliable like a freaking keyboard
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I did not now, but congratulations. Keep us updated on how it works out for you please.
I just can't believe this is our new reality, that we are actually discussing things like pretzel crumps, motes of dust, outdoor use and pets regarding something that should be *almost* drop dead reliable like a freaking keyboard
Including any of Apple's OWN previous keyboards.
There are just way too many apologists giving Apple way too easy of a pass on this.
The keyboard reliability situation is flat out unacceptable.
Yeah. I DO admittedly eat, drink and spill an occasional little bit of coffee, etc. on my iMac keyboard, and other than looking a bit gross at times (shame on me) it hasn't given me any problems
I like to think of it as having a well used "lived in" look
This is apparently what happens when you develop a new key-switch in a hermetically sealed white room filled with hospital grade air.
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Here is the keyboard on a 2002 Dell Inspiron Laptop after many years of use and abuse, spending the last 12+ years in the garage as an ECU moding computer for the bikes. Still works, still boots up to Windows XP, despite a latter life in an unheated garage with dirt, dust and whatever else.
Note the slight bit of wear on the spacebar?
The second is from a slightly over 3 month old MacBook Pro. That’s not oil, they are worn to a sheen. I do wonder what kind of wear it will have in even a years time.
I am sure I am “spacing it wrong”, or "typing wrong" but still a little dismayed by the early wear and tear.
Note the slight bit of wear on the spacebar?
The second is from a slightly over 3 month old MacBook Pro. That’s not oil, they are worn to a sheen. I do wonder what kind of wear it will have in even a years time.
I am sure I am “spacing it wrong”, or "typing wrong" but still a little dismayed by the early wear and tear.
Here is the keyboard on a 2002 Dell Inspiron Laptop after many years of use and abuse, spending the last 12+ years in the garage as an ECU moding computer for the bikes. Still works, still boots up to Windows XP, despite a latter life in an unheated garage with dirt, dust and whatever else.
Note the slight bit of wear on the spacebar?
The second is from a slightly over 3 month old MacBook Pro. That’s not oil, they are worn to a sheen. I do wonder what kind of wear it will have in even a years time.
I am sure I am “spacing it wrong”, but still a little dismayed by the early wear and tear.
Only time Mac keyboards look decent now is when new. My 12" Retina Mackbook is equally poor, worse as it's older. This Asus looks the same as new, as the finger grease just wipes right off, nor are the keys wearing or polishing up and it's been used heavily for over 6 months in a professional role.
Just exactly what premium are we paying for with Apple these days? I know one thing, little if anything is filtering back to me as the end user...
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Yeah, it is definitely not grease on mine. Worn shiny in 4 months. I know it doesn't affect the usability of they keyboard, but it might have an impact on resale. Still, just a little shocked and dismayed at that degree of wear in such a short time it doesn't bode well for long term use I think.