Very little. 100ms, something like that, below that it doesn't activate. All other keys do.
It's like Unshaky. Just a software filter.
It's like Unshaky. Just a software filter.
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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
- Thread starter Lastgreen
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Does anyone think that a gen 4 of the keyboard will be put in the MacBooks soon? i was hoping that Apple would fix the keyboard issues with either a redesign or gen 4 soon. I really want to buy a Macbook Air but the keyboard issues haven't been fixed 
I expect the 2019 model to have the gen 4 keyboard, but like Apple's prior gen 3, that will not be used for older laptops. That is the 2016/2017 will still get the gen 2 keyboard for repairs and the 2018 MBP will get the gen 3 keyboard for repairs
What do you think will happen with the MacBook Air keyboard? Will they update it or keep the gen 3?
Does anyone think that a gen 4 of the keyboard will be put in the MacBooks soon? i was hoping that Apple would fix the keyboard issues with either a redesign or gen 4 soon. I really want to buy a Macbook Air but the keyboard issues haven't been fixed
I think whether it is or not, after 3 generations of broken garbage now, Apple are going to need to work hard to win back their end user trust.
An official acknowledgement and return to the previous generation keyboard until they figure something out and re-release? Maybe i'll buy. An official re-design? Maybe....
A low-key revision to the current butterfly switch mechanism? I won't buy until at least 12-18 months after release and confirmation of no problem. And that would be putting me out to late 2020 / early 2021 for a macbook purchase at the earliest. I'm not sure i can wait that long. I may well end up with a Razor or (possibly) something from System76 because i can't stand windows 10.
I have no problem with the low key travel, what I do have a problem with is the keyboard failing. If it wasn’t for those issues I would of purchased the new Air. As someone who writes everyday I just can’t take that risk on something that seems to have a higher failure rate.
The Air itself I like, the MacBook Pro I like the design and feel of it. It is just the keyboard failure that puts me off personally.
I just want them to address and fix the issue. A redesign or a gen 4 Keyboard is fine with me.
I would expect scope to use the latest generation for each update. That is when the MBA gets refreshed again it will use apple's latest keyboard. Given how long it takes for Apple to refresh the MBA i would not expect an update this year
Interesting. So, you think the problem arises when the system is being taxed and under load? It seems like the reported problems occur when folks are doing pretty basic stuff; e.g. writing and posting. There is one video were a guy is having problems while typing in Pages or the Notes app, which I wouldn’t think stresses the system enough to get the fan spinning.
Anyway, not really arguing the point.....just wondering how you came to the conclusion that the problem is heat related?
I believe heat is the primary cause of mechanism deformation which causes problems later. There are posts from people who almost never used the keyboard and still having issues. At the same time, I see the 2017 MBP at the store having no problems after two years of abuse, 12h/7d a week. The trackpad is broken though. But it was probably never under serious load. Not saying light usage would save me from trouble, it would just deacrease the chances so I might risk. I find myself hard to find a decent pc alternative, hardware wise.
The key travel I can live with. Like you I can not deal with the failure rate. I personally know people who have gone through multiple replacement machines. Free replacement is not good enough if it is happening with this frequency. I can't be without my machine for weeks. And out of warranty replacement is super expensive - i plan to keep the machine beyond warranty period.
A gen4 "minor tweak" to the butterfly mechanism would not be enough to convince me they have fixed it until at least 12-18 months after release and no major issues reported, unfortunately.
It's been 3-4 years since the new keyboard came out and they are still breaking. I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt on any fix any more. Before this fiasco i would have accepted that they would have fixed the problem with a v2.0, but they just haven't. Even worse they have doubled-down on it and made it the only keyboard type available on their current Macbook lineup (the new retina air has it yes?).
Apple need to do something significant to win back trust, IMHO. Acknowledge the issue, acknowledge mistakes were made and outline exactly what they have done to resolve it. Because thus far there's been no real official statement to that effect, and any assumptions about the membrane are just that. And it doesn't appear to fix the issue anyway.
[doublepost=1556507841][/doublepost]Also, that said... i can get a decent linux supported laptop for WAY less money with WAY better spec from System76...
e.g.
https://system76.com/cart/configure/galp3
32 GB RAM (DIMMS!), 1 TB NVME (that i can upgrade myself - plus a 2.5" bay) and a retina class display for... less than i'd pay for a "Macbook Pro" 13" machine with 16 GB of RAM and half the storage or less.
Oh and a keyboard that works.
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I had multiple keyboards from MBP 15" fail on me, even though I hardly used them. I used multiple 15" docked, and pushed them hard, and even though I've used external KB, that one on MBP would fail none the less. Recently MBP 13" from 2018 (i5 quad core) failed on me within 10 days.
Now, I got all of those machines from my company. Currently I'm using Mac Mini when I need to do MacOS stuff, because I had enough of time machine backups and restoring my files/settings/etc.
MBP is super thin, and butterfly keyboards use thin plastics. So when the laptop heats up, well, physics will do what physics does, no matter how I or anyone else feels about it.
Oh no.
I've just had the first key on my 3rd gen mcbook pro keybord stop working. fter 2 months. can you guess what key it is?
Let's keep typing some more words to give you hint as to what it could be. It's kind of ner the beginning of the alphabet.
****. **** you pple.
I'm not hppy t all. don't lugh. this is not funny. well fter all i've been through about all you can do is laugh at some point. But given I do writing for living, a mchine I pid so much money for ought to hve the fricking first letter of the lphabet able to be typed on the damn machine.
I've just had the first key on my 3rd gen mcbook pro keybord stop working. fter 2 months. can you guess what key it is?
Let's keep typing some more words to give you hint as to what it could be. It's kind of ner the beginning of the alphabet.
****. **** you pple.
I'm not hppy t all. don't lugh. this is not funny. well fter all i've been through about all you can do is laugh at some point. But given I do writing for living, a mchine I pid so much money for ought to hve the fricking first letter of the lphabet able to be typed on the damn machine.
The sad part of all that is the repair will replace the non-working keyboard with the exact same keyboard that failed in the first place. Meaning your first key failure may not be your last.
I took a chance and didn’t get AppleCare on my MBP. I shouldn’t have to spend extra hundreds of dollars to make sure a computer that sells for $2800 works. I just hope since Apple released an apology about the 3rd gen butterfly keyboards that they will add it to the replacement program like the 2016 and 2017 MBPs.
Agreed, but the repair program is not a panacea, simply because the repair program is for only 4 years, and people tend to own their laptops beyond 4 years. At some point in the laptops viable lifespan you could end up paying for the repair,
Even if you HAVE applecare, returning the machine and having nothing to do your job with for a week while they put the same components back in to fail again is a non-starter.
If you use your machine for your job (and i do) then the keyboard return merry-go-round is just a joke.
A friend of mine jumped on board with the 2015 12" back in the day, went through THREE MACHINES in a month and gave up for a 2015 Retina 13".
He loved the Macbook 12". But the failure rate was literally costing him way too much in lost time as an independent consultant.
Another friend had a keyboard failure inside of 2-3 months on his (early) 2018 machine.
Free repairs won't get you back your lost productivity.
will apple swap a 2016 pro if you have more than 3 keyboard repairs? Anybody ever get AppleCare to swap their computer out for a new model? I mean it is a major repair since they have to replace the entire top case. Im on my second motherboard repair and one keyboard repair.
The apple guy I talked to said there has to be 3 of the same repairs to qualify for a swap for a new model but in the past other apple Genius Bar people told me its just 3 major repairs they dont need to be for the same thing.
The apple guy I talked to said there has to be 3 of the same repairs to qualify for a swap for a new model but in the past other apple Genius Bar people told me its just 3 major repairs they dont need to be for the same thing.
They should. They swapped my 2016 for a 2018. Keyboard failures each time.
Make it clear you expect a new device.
I would love to know how much the butterfly effect cost Apple so far, both in repairs/replacements and people jumping ship... surely even Apple tax can't cover all that.
4th failed keyboard, laptop was replaced, not repaired.
And yes, keyboard on brand new 2018 is now also failing (double letters).
I can second this, I had a few repeat repairs for multiple issues on my 2016 mbp. Genius Bar did not offer a new machine so I called a senior advisor. It was the first thing he offered. Now my 2018 also has keyboard problems. Just got it back from repair. Considering selling it for Mac mini and iPad Pro combo.
I consider simply demanding my money back. A €3500 laptop, in and out of service for weeks at the time, totalling in more than 3 months altogether. This simply isn't Apple.