Greenposi0n on Sunday 10/10/10 - Not anymore thanks to GeoHot (UPDATED)

[Gizmotoy]

Geohot did the the right thing. Face the facts and give both sides some credit.

I thought Geohot just wanted to get attention and all that stuff but I was wrong. Read into what MuscleNerd, Comex, p0sixninja and others have been tweeting.

Like this one?
P0sixninja: "wow, geohot steals our untethered exploit just so he can release first.... talk about #*****"

His exploit was the right one to use at this point in time, but that does not mean he did the right thing. He handled this extremely poorly.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

Like this one?
P0sixninja: "wow, geohot steals our untethered exploit just so he can release first.... talk about #*****"

His exploit was the right one to use at this point in time, but that does not mean he did the right thing. He handled this extremely poorly.

He either could have released his exploit or let CDT waste Shatter. I was referring to later tweets. Comex, MuscleNerd both ended up supporting Geohot. I think P0sixninja did too but I'm not 100% sure. There was a lot of drama going around.

To be fair, no one's perfect. His intentions weren't to screw everyone but to save Shatter for later. For the betterment of the jailbreak community. He could of done better, but then again, we all could do stuff better. There's always room to improve. I'm not going to comment on the PS3 situation because I'm not familiar with it nor is that relevant to this thread/forum.

 

[Claude626]

Geohot did the the right thing. Face the facts and give both sides some credit.

CDT's greenpois0n exploit doesn't apply for the new bootrom 3GS. Shatter isn't known to Apple yet, therefore they can save it for later. Shatter potentially can work with later hardware revisions, (think original bootrom 3GS versus the new bootrom 3GS). If Apple revises the current iPhone 4's bootrom, Shatter should theoretically still work. Furthermore, Shatter only works with A4 devices (iPhone 4, iPod touch 4G, iPad and the new TV ONLY). iPod touch 3G, iPhone 3GS new bootrom will not work.

On the other hand, Geohot's limera1n exploit will not survive the next bootrom. Apple already knows about it. But it does work on ALL 4.1 devices. iPhone 4, iPod touch 3G and 4G, iPhone 3GS new bootrom and iPad. It should theoretically work on the new TV too but it hasn't been tested. Geohot will also make it work for iPod touch 2G. Think about it, why waste an exploit that Apple doesn't know about, only works for A4 devices and also works for future hardware revisions (Shatter) instead of just using an exploit that works for ALL devices that can install iOS 4.1 and Apple already knows about?

I thought Geohot just wanted to get attention and all that stuff but I was wrong. Read into what MuscleNerd, Comex, p0sixninja and others have been tweeting. Geohot's exploit won't last and works for all devices. It would be a waste to not use it while you can. Shatter should be saved for later, it can work with future hardware and giving it to Apple right now is pure stupidity. Also, Shatter doesn't work for iPhone 3GS new bootrom, iPod touch 3G or 2G.

To sum it all up: Geohot's exploit has a deadline because Apple knows about it. It supports ALL devices (iPhone 4, 3Gs with new bootrom, iPod touch 2G, 3G and 4G and ipad)

Greenpois0n/Shatter is not known by Apple, has the potential to work with future hardware revisions, and only supports A4 devices.

My sentiments exactly. Well stated.

While it's easy to just pass off Geohotz as an asshat and we all want to stone him... try to think about it logically. I could careless if he IS an asshat or that his timing is piss poor... His actions results in OUR benefit regardless if that is his intentional aim or not. Just don't wave off the fact of the matter just so you all can band together and stone the man.

 

[UCLAKoolman]

This is not a big deal, as long as they still save an exploit to give me an untethered 4.2 jailbreak. I'll sit pretty with my 4.0 jailbreak until then.

 

[WeegieMac]

All this stuff about one exploit being used now and another being kept back for later on is irrelevant.

Regardless of which one is used and which one is held back, Apple will now know there are two exploits found instead of one, and you can bet that they'll have their best men ripping open their code to find whatever one isn't used.

 

[Claude626]

All this stuff about one exploit being used now and another being kept back for later on is irrelevant.

Regardless of which one is used and which one is held back, Apple will now know there are two exploits found instead of one, and you can bet that they'll have their best men ripping open their code to find whatever one isn't used.

These exploits have already been announced a few months in advance when pod2g found them. It's no surprise to anyone when an exploit has been found, so Apple already knows there are flaws to their bootrom.

It is quite relevant that we SAVE the one exploit with a better chance for future use.

 

[Amnesia87]

there are 2 different things to argue about geohot. i think he was both right and wrong. what he did was right. how he did it was wrong.

they definitely should save shatter if it's even remotely possible that apple doesn't know the specifics and it's pretty much guaranteed that geohot's hole is getting patched.

but he definitely could have handled it better.

 

[WeegieMac]

These exploits have already been announced a few months in advance when pod2g found them. It's no surprise to anyone when an exploit has been found, so Apple already knows there are flaws to their bootrom.

It is quite relevant that we SAVE the one exploit with a better chance for future use.

Yeah, but the point now being that Apple know there's another exploit out there waiting to be used, so they'll put their best men on finding it.

So when the exploit is eventually put to use, it'll already be known and found by Apple (potentially) and thus rendered useless. By acknowledging it's very existence publicly, it could well be screwed regardless.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Yeah, but the point now being that Apple know there's another exploit out there waiting to be used, so they'll put their best men on finding it..

No they won't. You greatly exaggerate how much apple really cares about jailbreaking.

 

[dwain]

Hello,

How can I JB on OSX?

 

[bruinsrme]

there are 2 different things to argue about geohot. i think he was both right and wrong. what he did was right. how he did it was wrong.

they definitely should save shatter if it's even remotely possible that apple doesn't know the specifics and it's pretty much guaranteed that geohot's hole is getting patched.

but he definitely could have handled it better.

Geo is talented.
I agree he could of handled it is a better manner. I would hate to think that he had it ready to go, as we saw way back when, but was holding out to take the spot light from others.
Glad we have it but I think its a black eye for the community.

 

[WeegieMac]

No they won't. You greatly exaggerate how much apple really cares about jailbreaking.

I would imagine that the Apple of old, the one pioneered by a young Steve Jobs, would have loved the whole underground hacking/software development scene.

Todays Steve? I'm not so sure.

If they didn't care that much, why do they sometimes release updates which seem to do nothing more than scupper jailbreaks?

 

[fuzion11]

How long until.....

Obviously it's impossible to know for sure, but now that we know chronic will be switching the exploit to asshat's exploit...generally how long do you guesstimate it would take to release greenpoision?

By this Wednesday....a week....two weeks?

I'm thinking or hoping rather it won't take longer than a week...hopefully by next weekend.

 

[antster94]

Obviously it's impossible to know for sure, but now that we know chronic will be switching the exploit to asshat's exploit...generally how long do you guesstimate it would take to release greenpoision?

By this Wednesday....a week....two weeks?

I'm thinking or hoping rather it won't take longer than a week...hopefully by next weekend.

Hopefully with a week, and then SHAtter will be here June 2011.

 

[doodude]

Then comes the long wait for all of the packages I have installed on my iPhone 4 to be iOS 4.1 compatible.....

S-

Aren't developers already working on comparability issues with 4.1 since it is already in use?

Or are you saying they have to have XX exploit in service in order to update their packages?

I think I may be confused by the phrase, "iOS 4.1 compatible". Is the iOS the problem or the JB or the combination of the 2?

 

[criscris]

Ok ima try this JB, but before I do. Can someone explain the best way to save my music and apps before I JB? I do believe it's in here somewhere that it's possible.

 

[thelatinist]

Geohot did the the right thing. Face the facts and give both sides some credit.

I thought Geohot just wanted to get attention and all that stuff but I was wrong.

This is exactly my sentiment. I don't like the way he went about it, but it now appears that he asked Chronic Dev to delay so that they could use his exploit instead and only took this action to force their hand when it became clear that they were unwilling to break their ETA to do the right thing.

Still, there were other ways he could have done it than releasing an untested beta of his jailbreak using comex' untethering exploit without permission. I believe it was Chpwn who suggested that he just release his exploit on github, which would have had the same effect. But then again, seeing how long it took Chronic Dev to decide to do the right thing even with Geohot's threat of a monday release, I'm not sure anything short of this would have convinced them to delay.

Please don't get me wrong: I completely understand Chronic Dev's feelings on this. They've spent months working on this jailbreak only to have their release pulled out from under them, and by doing the right thing there's a very real possibility that Apple might patch their SHAtter exploit and nobody will ever get to benefit from their work. And they now have people once again doubting they ever had an exploit. It's a sucky situation, and I don't blame them for feeling angry and betrayed.

 

[Applejuiced]

So how does Apple know about this exploit if it wasnt used before?

On the other hand, Geohot's limera1n exploit will not survive the next bootrom. Apple already knows about it. But it does work on ALL 4.1 devices.

 

[thelatinist]

So how does Apple know about this exploit if it wasnt used before?

According to MuscleNerd, the iBoot code and the bootrom code are closely related, and Geohot says newer versions of iBoot suggest that his hole has been found and closed. Posixninja says Geohot is wrong, but since Geohot knows his stuff and posixninja has a vested interest in him being wrong, I tend to give Geohot the benefit of the doubt, here.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Comex, MuscleNerd both ended up supporting Geohot. I think P0sixninja did too but I'm not 100% sure.

Perhaps, if by "support" we use the loosest definition possible:

Comex: "Fine, geohot's release now has my approval, because otherwise everyone would use the initial (pulled) broken version. Ugh." In other words, I approve only so that people don't use the initial buggy version that leaked.

Musclenerd: "If geohot's exploit works on all, & since either exploit is as likely to be "known" by Apple, his makes more sense IMHO" He never said he supports him, just that his exploit is probably the one to choose at this point.

P0sixninja: "wow, geohot steals our untethered exploit just so he can release first.... talk about #expletive" "still in shock...." "we have 3 options, A) Not release greenpois0n, B) Burn a second bootrom expoit, or C) Break our ETA and implement geo's exploit" "we'll probably go with option C, but i'm too pissed off to work on this tonight. i'm going to go get wasted"

chronicdevteam: "comex gave him the exploit with the understanding that he would not be sniping our release, and geohot did it anyway."

All it looks like to me is that there is acknowledgment by some parties that geohot's exploit was the correct one to use. This could have all been handled behind-the-scenes months ago.

We can guarantee one thing from this mess, though. We will never receive another ETA for a jailbreak.

So how does Apple know about this exploit if it wasnt used before?

Not that they wouldn't say this no matter what, but the Chronic Dev Team says that's incorrect and Apple is not aware of his exploit. No way to tell who is right, really.

 

[dvrmstrng]

For someone new to this JB world, this is all very confusing, whew.

 

[Applejuiced]

Oh, I see.
I dont think Apple goes around looking for exploits in their stuff but they patch things after they have been exploited and some times they take a while to even do that.
So if they closed or changed something it was probably random IMO.
We'll see how it plays.
I hope this drama that went down actually benefits the JB community in the end, another hack wasnt wasted so thats also good.

 

[nebo1ss]

Figures, why cant this kid get along and play nice with the rest of the Devs so the JB scene is the winner at the end?
Why does it always gotta be me me me

While the timing and actions of Geohot are questionable, the end result he forced through is better for the community. We get two jailbreaks using the one baseband exploit, saved one for later and we get to apply it to a wider range of devices now.

Who knows how he thinks, but his actions might have been prompted by the fact that Greenpois0n was determined to only apply to a limited number of devices. This was never announced until the end and it was soon after that that he came forward with limera1n.

You have to give him credit for finding the exploit and producing the jailbreak in record time.

 

[thelatinist]

Not that they wouldn't say this no matter what, but the Chronic Dev Team says that's incorrect and Apple is not aware of his exploit. No way to tell who is right, really.

Yeah, with the hard feelings on Chronic Dev's part I think it's hard to base any judgment on what they say right now. I'm looking more to what the Dev Team is saying, and MuscleNerd seemed to support at least the plausibility of seeing a patch by examining iBoot.

So if they closed or changed something it was probably random IMO.

I agree. If they happened upon a hole I'm sure they'd plug it, but chances are better that they were just rewriting things for other reasons just inadvertently fixed it.

Who knows how he thinks, but his actions might have been prompted by the fact that Greenpois0n was determined to only apply to a limited number of devices. This was never announced until the end and it was soon after that that he came forward with limera1n.

Yeah, that's probably part of it. It sounds like he disapproved of the decision to use a hack that only worked on the A4 rather than the hack comex apparently shared with him.

 

[maturola]

Geohot did the the right thing. Face the facts and give both sides some credit.

Not he didn't at all... the Right thing would have been to wait test and completely develop his tool, or just as he "took" comex exploit to make limera1n untethered, he could have give the bootrom exploit so the greenpois0n would have been update and test.