Has Apple lost its cool to Samsung?

[Lava Lamp Freak]

I'll throw this out there:

MOTO X Engineer on Phone Specs

That leads me to the criticism about the screen resolution. Why did Motorola decide to go with a lower resolution? I mean, it seems like every other high-end smartphone, including the new LG G2 that was just introduced today, has a 1080P screen. And when it comes to pixels per square inch, the Galaxy S4 has the Moto X beat.

Arshad: First of all, what Samsung has done with the GS4 screen is not true 1080P. Instead, Samsung is using a PenTile display. Each pixel is made up of three-color sub pixels. It's missing one of the pixels. We are using a true RGB pattern custom display that gives true color reproduction without wasting battery life.

Samsung is using a graphics processor, but they're using it the wrong way and their performance is actually worse than ours. They are burning more battery life. In the case of HTC, they're using an LCD screen, which is simply an inferior technology.

Also, the human eye cannot discern resolution beyond 300 pixels per inch. And we exceed that. So the eye can't even see the difference. But the human eye can see big differences in color saturation and reproduction. In fact, I'd say that is even more important than resolution. So we decided to focus on that aspect instead.

While I agree with him that the Pentile layout of the Galaxy S4 means that it doesn't look quite as sharp as 1080p RGB stripe display, the 300 ppi statement isn't true.

The scientific calculation of what a human eye can resolve at its best is 573 ppi at 12 inches and 458 ppi at 15 inches. That has been quoted in numerous articles I've read over the last few years. That's what a scientist come up with to show that Apple's "retina display" is a misnomer.

And the colors on an AMOLED display are atrocious if not calibrated to SRGB, which the Moto X isn't. The S5 offers Cinema mode which is almost perfect besides the gamma being a little off.

 

[bnmcj1]

I doubt anyone will take this comment seriously.

So, a lot of people ended up taking that seriously .

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No matter how often you repeat Apple's marketing slogans, I can see a difference between an iPhone 5 and an Lg g2 in terms of pixel density.

These days the word "Retina" stands for a relatively low resolution screen on a smartphone, compared to the common 1080p screens.

This! It really is a marketing term - one I combine with low resolution screen in phones.

 

[Black Magic]

So, a lot of people ended up taking that seriously .

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This! It really is a marketing term - one I combine with low resolution screen in phones.

Yea, apparently they took your side. One of them even claim that it's Apple Marketing slogans when I clearly posted a link to Google's old phone division Moto Engineer speaking on the topic.

I think the Moto engineer probably has a little more insight in the smartphone technology than us humble forum folks. If guys on MacRumors says the Moto Engineer has no clue in what he's talking about, then surely he is wrong.

 

[AppleScruff1]

If guys on MacRumors says the Moto Engineer has no clue in what he's talking about, then surely he is wrong.

Then does that mean that if a guy on MacRumors claims that Apple will never make a water resistant phone or use a higher resolution screen that he is correct?

 

[bnmcj1]

Yea, apparently they took your side. One of them even claim that it's Apple Marketing slogans when I clearly posted a link to Google's old phone division Moto Engineer speaking on the topic.

I think the Moto engineer probably has a little more insight in the smartphone technology than us humble forum folks. If guys on MacRumors says the Moto Engineer has no clue in what he's talking about, then surely he is wrong.

And Apple's engineers apparently thought 1136x640 on 4 inches was enough. I agree that it is on the edge of what we can discern, but it really is not enough in terms of density yet. 1080p Nexus 5, Htc One and GS4 proves that to me. For example, if you do not have full bars of signal in iOS 7, look at the rounded empty circles. I can see they are somewhat pixelated. Also, in the grey keyboard field, i can see the pixels if I look closely. While it can seem silly when you have to look closely to notice, this ppi leaves an inferior display with less crispness and clearness compared to other. And 1080p is just logical for video.

 

[zipa]

Dont know what phone your using, but my phone takes really good photos and videos.

I'm using an iPhone 5 and a Lumia 1020. The 1020 is certainly "getting there", but the iPhone is outright embarrassing when it comes to low light performance, and having no stabilization, videos are like a first-hand experience with Parkinsons...

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Yea, apparently they took your side. One of them even claim that it's Apple Marketing slogans when I clearly posted a link to Google's old phone division Moto Engineer speaking on the topic.

I think the Moto engineer probably has a little more insight in the smartphone technology than us humble forum folks. If guys on MacRumors says the Moto Engineer has no clue in what he's talking about, then surely he is wrong.

I have no idea who that Motorola engineer is, but this "humble forum folk" right here has been both researching and developing the mobile phone industry for some 15 years.

Not that one needs any industry experience to see that a bigger and sharper screen is both more pleasing to look at and can convey more information than a smaller and less detailed screen. I don't really understand how anyone could possibly object to that?

 

[Retired Cat]

The reality is that Samsung has become so common in the non-iPhone mobile phone space that it is not cool.

"Generic" and "mediocre" describe the tech world's general reaction to the Galaxy S5.

The "cool" kids have moved on to other brands like Nokia, HTC, and Nexus.

 

[AppleScruff1]

The reality is that Samsung has become so common in the non-iPhone mobile phone space that it is not cool.

"Generic" and "mediocre" describe the tech world's general reaction to the Galaxy S5.

The "cool" kids have moved on to other brands like Nokia, HTC, and Nexus.

If you want to be cool and different today, you need to use a Windows phone. Android and Apple are too commonplace and if everyone has one, it's not cool anymore.

 

[Black Magic]

I'm using an iPhone 5 and a Lumia 1020. The 1020 is certainly "getting there", but the iPhone is outright embarrassing when it comes to low light performance, and having no stabilization, videos are like a first-hand experience with Parkinsons...

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I have no idea who that Motorola engineer is, but this "humble forum folk" right here has been both researching and developing the mobile phone industry for some 15 years.

Not that one needs any industry experience to see that a bigger and sharper screen is both more pleasing to look at and can convey more information than a smaller and less detailed screen. I don't really understand how anyone could possibly object to that?

Noone is objecting to a larger screen. You just are failing to stay on topic. The topic is 1080p.

 

[Technarchy]

Keep in mind Samsung keeps the Galaxy line release away from iPhone releases to spur on this type on dialog.

Samsung has two major releases a year and one is in the phablet category, which Apple doesn't compete in.

By doing a strategic release Samsung gets double the press, praise and consumer voice traffic, which is buzz and equates to cooler to some.

 

[cnev3]

When you are talking about a device that is used by every single demographic: young, old, middle aged, middle class, upper class, every race, many nationalities, it's no longer a cool vs uncool thing. To consider a phone cool or uncool is silly.

 

[Technarchy]

When you are talking about a device that is used by every single demographic: young, old, middle aged, middle class, upper class, every race, many nationalities, it's no longer a cool vs uncool thing. To consider a phone cool or uncool is silly.

I hate to break it to you but there is always a hotter brand or model among consumer products. Always.

How much panache does BlackBerry carry currently, irrespective of hardware or software. The very brand itself is not cool. It has no momentum via word of mouth or press.

Apple has the heat and Samsung is the only other brand with a shot at the title.

 

[cnev3]

I hate to break it to you but there is always a hotter brand or model among consumer products. Always.

We seem to be talking about different things. Having the latest phone isn't my definition of "cool".

 

[kdarling]

IDC numbers can't be trusted. If you look at my first post in this thread, there is a legal document that leaked out showing how Samsung lied about the number of certain devices sold to analyst as well as investors.

There's no such document. As with many people, you've apparently been misled by one of Dilger's click bait posts.

First off, his entire conjecture was based on the number of US-only sales of infringing-only tablets. However, most of Samsung's sales are outside of the US.

Secondly, he's either accidentally or deliberately confusing sales vs shipments. Both Apple and Samsung count a shipment to a retailer as a sale... and that number is often higher during channel fill, but can happen any time.

For example, it's not uncommon for Apple's publicized iPad sales (most of which are to retailer inventory), to be more than a million higher than actual end user sales during a quarter:

 

[subsonix]

There's no such document. As with many people, you've apparently been misled by one of Dilger's click bait posts.

First off, his entire conjecture was based on the number of US-only sales of infringing-only tablets. However, most of Samsung's sales are outside of the US.

Secondly, he's either accidentally or deliberately confusing sales vs shipments. Both Apple and Samsung count a shipment to a retailer as a sale... and that number is often higher during channel fill, but can happen any time.

For example, it's not uncommon for Apple's publicized iPad sales (most of which are to retailer inventory), to be more than a million higher than actual end user sales during a quarter:

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/04/11/apple-samsung-tablet-misled/

 

[kdarling]

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/04/11/apple-samsung-tablet-misled/

Instead of doing his own research (as I did), Elmer-DeWitt simply repeated Dilger's mistakes. Notice that he later had to throw in a correction where he admits he mixed up world and US sales, but he didn't bother correct his mistaken conclusion.

His article says:

"When Strategy Analytics was telling the world that Samsung sold nearly 2 million Galaxy Tabs in six weeks, the truth was that it took Samsung all of 2011 to sell half that many in the U.S., its single biggest smartphone market. "

He deliberately mixes a quarterly worldwide number, with yearly US only sales. Sorry, but that's extremely bad math.

Worse, he's wrong about the US being Samsung's biggest market. Samsung only sells from 1/4 to 1/25 of its devices in the US.

Which is why it was absolutely possible for Samsung to have sold two million tablets WORLDWIDE in Q4 2010, with 1/4 of them in the US as reported in the trial.

 

[Max(IT)]

First of all. My country is a total iPhone country and I am a heavy Apple user, but this is maybe changing in terms of phones.

For many years, carriers said that 9/10 buys was iPhone. I see people in stores now and everyone is looking at Samsung. And that is even before the new model S5. The carriers also tell people that the percentage of defects are very low on Samsungs products compared to iPhones (some have their own repair shop).

Today I went to see the Galaxy S5 and people were all over it - iPhone place empty as always in the last 6 months. People go play with the impressive S5, Gear Fit and Gear 2 watch, and I must admit - it looks like some next step thing Apple could (read SHOULD) have made. They slept. Go see for yourself in store. Those AMOLED displays are amazing in the new edition. Especially the curved one in Gear fit. Black is BLACK on those displays. I know they have their limitations in terms of color correction, but... For the first time, I really hated my small screen iPhone 5S. It made me wanna buy the S5 and Gear Fit immediately. Why didn't I? See, I have MacBook Air, Apple TV, iPad Mini Retina, Thunderbolt Display and Libratone Zipp Airplay Speaker which I use a lot. But of all these things, AirPlay is the only thing holding me back now. The cloud syncing is all Google Services anyways. Beaming can be through iPad, but with AirPlay I like to pick up the iPhone from my pocket and play).

I previously owned S4 and Note 3 to try out Android and Samsung, but the only thing I missed was... Airplay. Thinking of jumping ship and just use Airplay from iPad - I just don't have that in my pocket. Samsung's devices seem superior with the big amoled screen and possibilities. I am not saying that Samsung is better in everyday practical use, but for someone tech interested they are just so much more inviting and forward thinking.

The next big thing for you? S5 or iPhone 6?

To answer your last question, I don't know about iPhone 6 but surely I'm not going to buy a s5 ....

 

[Max(IT)]

Apple continues to sell more iPhones that any other OEM sells of their best selling devices.

Talk to me when Samsung sells more Galaxy S5's than Apple sells iPhone 6's.

*spoiler*

It won't happen. Even in "incremental" years, Apple blows the doors off any other OEM in terms of sales.

Are there other great phones out there? Heck ya there are - the Lumia line, HTC One (M8), LG G2 Flex, Nexus 5, Note 3 etc....but none come anywhere near the iPhone in terms of popularity.

Heck the "flop" iPhone 5C outsold the Galaxy S4 in the US Q4 2013....and its been talked about as being a FAILURE.

That tells you all you need to know. At the end of 2013, Apple's failures sell more than Samsung's successes.

I just hate Samsung dominates the Android space like it does. There are other great phones out there that have trouble selling because of the marketing machine Samsung has. I still feel like the GS4 was the third best Android phone of 2013 (HTC One, Nexus 5).....and I didn't ever use the Moto X, which I've heard people rave about.

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Yes - but marketshare isn't the whole story.

Apple sells 2 devices (technically 3 if you count the old 4S that's still available but not actively marketed).

Samsung sells how many Galaxy S variants? Plus the Note. Plus their cheap smart phones.....

Then you have the iOS vs Android market share numbers. Dozens of OEMs producing hundreds of different phones, against 2 (again, 3 if you count the hanger on 4S).

Look at individual phone sales. Nothing comes close to the iPhone. Samsung thought they'd sell 100 million Galaxy S4s.....have they even hit 65 million a year after its release?

Meanwhile, Apple sells half that in a quarter. The 4S is, I believe the best selling smartphone in history (over the life of the phone) at something like 130 million sales. Samsung doesn't have a phone that's anywhere near it.

The question here is, which phone is cooler (more popular) the iPhone of the Galaxy phone (heck, throw the Note in as well). The answer is overwhelmingly, the iPhone. Still. And it isn't close.

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Come on maflynn, you should know better.

64-bit A7 and TouchID are resting on laurels? And now we see other devices rush to throw in fingerprint sensors and 64-bit chips?

Not saying Apple was "first". But I find it funny that a company can be called "lazy", yet as soon as they release something new, other companies immediately do the same.

TouchID changes my experience with my iPhone. I think its pretty damn great. And it'll only get better. And the 64-bit A7 isn't utilized right now, but it undoubtedly is the future. Just building the framework here. I'd call this stuff pretty innovative.

2014 is young - while I wish Apple would switch up their timetables (I think its ridiculous they release everything at the end of the year), we still have a long way to go. And Cook made mention of new product categories THIS YEAR.

I prefer Apple to get the iWatch right rather than rush out a half-baked product like the Gear, which doesn't even remotely seem innovative to me. I don't want a phone on my wrist. I want a companion device that enhances my mobile computing needs. Maybe I'm unique here, but I'm hoping Apple doesn't just give us a health-tracking, notification giving wrist device. I want NFC, biometric sensors and features that enhance security and mobile payments as well as provide notifications.

Forget the camera and phone capabilities....

Wow ... I couldn't have written it better.
+1

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Yet people wait in line 24+hours to buy an iPhone. I'd say even with a locked down OS, apple is cool. You may not like the OS, or Apple's philosophy but you cannot knock its track record.

Most consumers don't care if iOS is in a "protected garden" vs wide open as is Android, They care about a good phone with lots of apps. Both iOS and Android have that so from a consumer perspective its less about protected vs. unprotected.

I actually prefer a "protected garden", and this is the reason I prefer iOS and WP over Android.

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Those number is not only used by IDC but others like Forbes.

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Interesting Number, Samsung's Galaxy Note 3 Alone Approaches 50% Of All Of Apple's iPhone Sales

That article was complete BS ... It uses numbers from different quarters and made a lot of assumptions.
Still the note 3 sold less than 50% of iPhone 5s/5c, and it was WORLDWIDE while iPhone 5c/5s were sold only in selected countries at the time.

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But I'll bet that when the iPhone becomes water resistant and has a 1080p or 4K or whatever screen it will be revolutionary. And by that definition, isn't Apple's 64 bit processor a publicity stunt too?

If you really think a7's strongpoint is just 64-bit, I'd be disappointed ...

I don't care about 1080p (it really is marketing trash), I do care about PPI : I just want apple to keep that number above 330-350, and resolution should be related to screen dimensions to achieve that goal.

Water resistant ? I don't know, but I'm sure apple won't use a ridiculous port cover like Samsung did on the s5 (I really hope that !).

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HD displays are needed if you plan on growing the display size.

Otherwise you would have a really crappy quality display.

Agree.
But speaking about "1080p" is just marketing BS.
On a 4" screen you don't need 1080p to have an high quality display. And you don't need it also on a 4.5-4.7" screen.

You need it on a 5.7" to keep the PPI number above 300.

But when you speak about 1080P people will think about "FullHD" ....

 

[gotluck]

If 1080p is marketing BS , so are 64bit devices with 1gb ram.

 

[Max(IT)]

Apple really needs to fix the so called Retina display in iPhone. I can easily discern the pixels on the iPhone 5s display, while I have a hard time seeing pixels with 1080p. No 1080p, no sale.

This is the practical demonstration that marketing works ...
You can easily discern pixels on an iPhone 5s while you have difficulties to do that on 1080p display.
Well the note 3 display has 1080p resolution and a PPI number similar to iPhone 5s "low resolution screen", and the note 3 uses PenTile matrix vs full RGB of iPhone's screen. So what you said is just not true , but you are convinced about that because Samsung told you

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If 1080p is marketing BS , so are 64bit devices with 1gb ram.

And if you really think that 64-bits armv8 architectural advantage is only related to memory addressing you do need to take a look at Anandtech website ...

 

[gotluck]

I don't, that's not what I'm saying, you are twisting.

64bit itself in its current implementation is just as much of a gimmick

Sorry your eyes are bad

The gains in the a7 aren't due to 64bit

 

[Max(IT)]

Then does that mean that if a guy on MacRumors claims that Apple will never make a water resistant phone or use a higher resolution screen that he is correct?

Surely Apple never spoke about resolution, but about PPI when they spoke about "Retina" display.
And I really hope they will do the same if they are going to release a couple of bigger iPhones in the future.

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I don't, that's not what I'm saying, you are twisting.

64bit itself in its current implementation is just as much of a gimmick

Sorry your eyes are bad

The gains in the a7 aren't due to 64bit

My eyes are as good as they can be, being a professional pilot checked twice a year.

64 bits are a milestone for future development. And something your beloved droids are going to embrace in the next future. Nothing like a gimmick.

 

[gotluck]

So the iPhone will never be 1080p hah!? Yeah right.

Of course 64 bit will come...

No one that actually uses android phones calls them droids btw. That was Verizon branding and just adds to the fact that you dont really use android but love to bash on it here.

 

[Max(IT)]

There's no such document. As with many people, you've apparently been misled by one of Dilger's click bait posts.

First off, his entire conjecture was based on the number of US-only sales of infringing-only tablets. However, most of Samsung's sales are outside of the US.

Secondly, he's either accidentally or deliberately confusing sales vs shipments. Both Apple and Samsung count a shipment to a retailer as a sale... and that number is often higher during channel fill, but can happen any time.

For example, it's not uncommon for Apple's publicized iPad sales (most of which are to retailer inventory), to be more than a million higher than actual end user sales during a quarter:

View attachment 469346

Except Apple sales are supported by Internet access/online purchases stats, while Samsung sales aren't.
So if Samsung really sold so many tablets, most of their customers used them as cutting plate

 

[gotluck]

Or they changed the user agent to iPad since most sites are only tablet optimized for the iPad. Which is what I did when I still used my crappy touchpad.