Resolved Heat is the enemy, was: $4 and I'm happy!

[eyoungren]

@Cox Orange…the CPUs are actually a Giga Designs, not a Sonnet. No, I don't believe I can do 2Ghz with it. I keep going direct into Open Firmware. A boot from there means a kernel panic.

But it's stable at 1.73Ghz. No problems and no additional fans. The cooling issue only comes when I bump it to 1.8Ghz.

Thanks for the advice, although, I really hope to avoid applying new thermal paste.

 

[G4TheWin]

But it's stable at 1.73Ghz. No problems and no additional fans. The cooling issue only comes when I bump it to 1.8Ghz.

Would you consider the extra 47 Mhz worth it? Honestly, even if you're doing video editing or something, I think that the extra performance and lowered rendering time would be negated by the amount of time spent getting the fan arrangement *just right*.

 

[eyoungren]

Would you consider the extra 47 Mhz worth it? Honestly, even if you're doing video editing or something, I think that the extra performance and lowered rendering time would be negated by the amount of time spent getting the fan arrangement *just right*.

LOL! But that would be surrendering!

Nah, I'm throwing what I can at the problem. If it turns out that after I've thrown everything I can at it and it doesn't work then at least I gave it my best shot.

Otherwise I've got that nagging voice in my head…"What if you'd tried this…or that?" And not having an answer. Besides. It's fun trying to figure this out.

 

[harrymatic]

Well, that's a thought, but no. I'm planning on running 4+1. What I mean by that is two off the AGP card and two off the PCI card. The third card I plan on being a TV-Tuner card. So, technically, 5 displays, but the 5th one would be driven by the tuner card.

The Rage 128 will stay until I get the tuner card.

Which TV tuner card is this? I was looking for one for my G4 until I discovered an old Hauppauge Nova-T USB TV stick in my PC junk box and found out to my delight that it works with Elgato EyeTV.

 

[eyoungren]

Which TV tuner card is this?

No idea. That's a future kind of thing. Once everything else is taken care of and I have it all running smoothly then I'll be looking into that.

 

[Cox Orange]

Ah, ok. Did not hear something about the Gigadesign CPUs in regard to heat issues. Is this the one with the jumpers?
The heat problem seems to be common on the 1,8GHz 7447 Sonnet rather.

LOL! But that would be surrendering!

Nah, I'm throwing what I can at the problem. If it turns out that after I've thrown everything I can at it and it doesn't work then at least I gave it my best shot.

Otherwise I've got that nagging voice in my head…"What if you'd tried this…or that?" And not having an answer. Besides. It's fun trying to figure this out.

What about the question "What, if I burned the CPU"

Could it be, that the 9200 died because of the surrounding heat of the CPU? I mean there is the AGP card between them, but maybe the AGP card components can handle more heat?

It's a shame I have all sorts of stuff for these fan/heat experiments laying around, but I don't get to doing it in the end. I have also collected a 8sensor-temperatur monitor (along with a comon 4sensor Zalman one, which I am going to sell I think), which I would lay outside of the case and route the sensor cables through one PCI-Slot or air-hole, once I will start this testing orgy. I am ok with the temps in my G4, but my main (actual) aims are to reduce fan noise and secondly heat, to make the PSU more efficient. But then again I am too lazy. Also on my list is a plan to test several CPU Upgrades with a Wattmeter connected (You can find benchmarks on the net, but they never test the efficiency. I might find that my Dual 1,8GHz 7447 is equal to my Dual 1,2GHz 7457... and then sell the not so good Upgrades I have, because I feel I have to downsize a bit, but then again...)

 

[eyoungren]

E!!!

What is going on with the heating issue????? I read the thread so I know what's going on but I wanted to ask that anyway.

Anyhooooo, I have an idea that might work. I don't know where you relocated the new fan that you bough for the CPU, but if it's still centered over the CPU and directly on top of the other fans, I would say that's bad placement. Sure it makes sense with the car open, but since that PM was originally designed to draw heat out the back and then that was changed by the original CPU upgrade when you bought it from me, I think you need to adopt a multi-unit cooling method instead.

I would use longer screws to raise the smaller fans off of the CPU and then surround that with some sort of vented aluminum col that allows for airflow and will also allow excess heat that is not picked up by the fans to exit the area and cool the CPU. THEN I would make something else out of a harder aluminum and then attach that to resemble a funnel that draws the heat up. Have the new fan attached to the end of that where the original vent to the back of the machine was and that should allow for much better cooling without going too crazy. You could even use the EMI shield from a broken laptop for the vent and it "should" work.

Thanks! I totally missed your post last night.

What I don't get is why if this CPU was rated originally at 1.8 why Giga Designs didn't design the fans/heatsink to take care of the heat. Why sell an upgrade that's going to fail repeatedly because your design is not handling the heat?

The 1.2Ghz Sonnet didn't seem to have this issue and it's only got one small fan on it!

Perhaps that's why Giga Designs faded away, IDK. But other than that, it's rock stable at 1.73 so I can't complain too much.

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Ah, ok. Did not hear something about the Gigadesign CPUs in regard to heat issues. Is this the one with the jumpers?
The heat problem seems to be common on the 1,8GHz 7447 Sonnet rather.


What about the question "What, if I burned the CPU"

Could it be, that the 9200 died because of the surrounding heat of the CPU? I mean there is the AGP card between them, but maybe the AGP card components can handle more heat?

Well…if I burn the CPU I have the original I got with the Mac still. I don't want to say that this is a test bed because I've put some money into it, but I do want to see what I can get out of it.

As to the graphics card. Well…let's just say that's a combination of things I think. One, the card was a little funny when I got it. So, I think it was going to begin with. Second, when you have the 9800 Pro installed and have tested it and are going to remove it, I think it really is a good idea to unplug the Mac from power first before you remove the card then attempt to remove the molex cable from the card.

See, that way you don't get arcing from the card frame to another card in the immediate vicinity (9200). Yeah, you don't want to do that. Might accelerate the death of a video card that was wonky to begin with.

 

[Cox Orange]

Thank you for the tip for the 9800 (if I ever get to flashing the one I have laying around, I will keep that in mind. Another project still waiting. )


On the question, why Gigadesign labeled it 1,8GHz, when they don't take care for better cooling: I would still keep the thermal paste in mind. The "defective" Sonnet I had, made the system freeze at 70% load on both cores everytime. After the thermal paste exchange the problem was gone. I did not do it myself, though I sold it defective a few years ago. Someone made a bid of over 200,-EUR and of course, I stated the problem in the auction text. He did change the paste and reported me back (could have gotten 300,-EUR for it at the time, if I only had done it myself. Crazy people at Ebay sometimes.)

 

[eyoungren]

If you're not going to be using OS 9, get a PCI GeForce 5200 and flash it. It'll give you native CoreImage on Leopard (not hacks required).

5200 on order! $9.99+$12 shipping.

Is there any specific program I need to use to do the flashing (other than the file you linked to)? I assume the flashing is done on a PC right?

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…I would still keep the thermal paste in mind.

Order Arctic Silver with the Arcticlean stuff off Amazon. $9!

 

[robertdsc]

Second, when you have the 9800 Pro installed and have tested it and are going to remove it, I think it really is a good idea to unplug the Mac from power first before you remove the card then attempt to remove the molex cable from the card.

Strange. I thought it was standard practice to unplug everything from the back of the Mac before opening it up. Isn't that what Apple says to do before working on anything inside? I remember an official warning or instruction to that effect.

 

[eyoungren]

Strange. I thought it was standard practice to unplug everything from the back of the Mac before opening it up. Isn't that what Apple says to do before working on anything inside? I remember an official warning or instruction to that effect.

Uh…I didn't get the memo [read: I was STUPID].

 

[Intell]

5200 on order! $9.99+$12 shipping.

Is there any specific program I need to use to do the flashing (other than the file you linked to)? I assume the flashing is done on a PC right?

Yes it does need to be done on a PC. Make sure you get the right ROM for your card. If you got the 256MB one, there's only one ROM for it. Here's the link for general Nvidia card flashing, it's what I used: http://themacelite.wikidot.com/nvidia-general-flashing You'll need an older version of NVFLASH, the latest won't work with GeForce 5200 cards. I don't exactly remember off hand which version I used. But I still have it on the floppy if needed to be checked. Good news is you won't have to tape off any pins.

 

[eyoungren]

Yes it does need to be done on a PC. Make sure you get the right ROM for your card. If you got the 256MB one, there's only one ROM for it. Here's the link for general Nvidia card flashing, it's what I used: http://themacelite.wikidot.com/nvidia-general-flashing You'll need an older version of NVFLASH, the latest won't work with GeForce 5200 cards. I don't exactly remember off hand which version I used. But I still have it on the floppy if needed to be checked. Good news is you won't have to tape off any pins.

Cool! Thanks!

BTW, got the fans today. We'll see how this goes. The main PSU fan I replaced with a Cooler Master JetFlo 120mm. 2000RPM, 95CFM which is about 3x the cooling of the previous fan. I also got a 80mm fan that hits 3500RPM and 62CFM.

Right now my hard drives are about 93º. When I booted they were 86º. I also moved some of the PCI cards around. The video cards are going near the bottom by the PSU fan away from the CPUs. I can't move the AGP card of course, but I can move the others. The other two PCI cards are low profile and don't generate a lot of heat so I have them near the AGP card.

Too early to tell though.

Here's the card I got. 256MB.

*MODS! THIS IS NOT MY AUCTION, I AM NOT SELLING ANYTHING! JUST LINKING TO WHAT I BOUGHT!

 

[jrsx]

Huh. 7 available, 46 sold. Interesting.

 

[eyoungren]

Huh. 7 available, 46 sold. Interesting.

Ten bucks! Plus $12 shipping. I paid less for this and it's brand new sealed, then I did for the Radeon 9200.

Flash it in a PC and get a PCI CoreImage capable card. Dual displays. This particular one is dual VGA, but I can hang with that. I've got two monitors right now that have VGA hookups and I have a DVI/VGA adapter for when I finally get the converter boxes for my Studio Displays. Get another adapter at some point and I should be good. Free to cheap.

 

[eyoungren]

Hmmm…was working ok, TenFourFox and a disk encode/burn. I quit T4Fx, it locked up so I force quit it and then the Mac kernel panicked.

Which is different than the freezes…

Arctic Silver is my last shot. If I get no joy with that then this is a 1.73Ghz Mac.

 

[robertdsc]

I've got two monitors right now that have VGA hookups and I have a DVI/VGA adapter for when I finally get the converter boxes for my Studio Displays.

If you're thinking you can use a DVI to VGA adapter on the DVI end of the ADC adapter, it may not work. I've tried it in various flavors and could not get it to work.

 

[eyoungren]

If you're thinking you can use a DVI to VGA adapter on the DVI end of the ADC adapter, it may not work. I've tried it in various flavors and could not get it to work.

No, this would be a DVI to VGA adapter plugged into a DVI to ADC converter box.

I'm going the other way. I need to hook up an ADC monitor to a DVI/VGA video card. For that I need the converter box that also powers the display because DVI does not provide power.

Wish it were just a cable, but not so simple.

 

[jrsx]

Hmmm…was working ok, TenFourFox and a disk encode/burn. I quit T4Fx, it locked up so I force quit it and then the Mac kernel panicked.

Which is different than the freezes…

Arctic Silver is my last shot. If I get no joy with that then this is a 1.73Ghz Mac.

I'm sorry for your suffering. 0.07 GHz is a pretty dramatic and colossal downsize. Heat really is the devil itself.

 

[eyoungren]

I'm sorry for your suffering. 0.07 GHz is a pretty dramatic and colossal downsize. Heat really is the devil itself.

Ahhh, don't feel too bad. With the new fans the Mac is MUCH quieter now and more efficient.

Seriously though, that had to be the original fan underneath the PSU!

 

[jrsx]

Ahhh, don't feel too bad. With the new fans the Mac is MUCH quieter now and more efficient.

Seriously though, that had to be the original fan underneath the PSU!

I'm still trying to figure out if I was trying to be sarcastic or not.... LOL

 

[eyoungren]

Since someone mentioned they wanted more pictures of the inside of my Mac…
Also, the fans I got today.

 

[fhall1]

I'm really enjoying following your saga.....if you get many more fans in there that machine is going to start hovering over your desk

 

[Intell]

That's the same model 5200 I got. If you're feeling very adventurous, you can replace one of the VGA connectors with a DVI connector. One of them, I think it's the one closest to the pins have solder pads for DVI. Everything is connected on the board, but PNY sold a cheaper card with a VGA connector soldered to the analogue pins of the DVI connector. Those cards also run a tad warm-ish. They don't have a fan, but the card does have a plug for a fan on it.

 

[harrymatic]

I'm sure I remember reading that some of the PNY GF5200s use slightly slower memory than the actual Mac versions, causing artifacting on screen. If this does happen, just underclock the memory slightly using Graphicellerator.