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Here's MS Messenger 8 beta

@IntelliUser

I agree with every single word that you say.
After buying a Macbook Pro, I've started to see how Microsoft's products are all piece of ****.
I've switched from Office 2008 Mac to iWork '09. After 1 hour using Pages '09 and typing my class notes, I've simply asked myself: "Why the **** didn't I use iWork before?".
I only use MSN because all of my noob friends don't know how good AIM, Google Talk and Skype are. Oh! And I must say that all those girl winks makes every noob fall in love with that ****** software.

As for Hotmail. I'm about to abandon it. Got tired of the 10mb attachment limit, absence of IMAP server and mainly of those advertisements that Hotmail sends at the end of every e-mail.
 
I kinda agree. Honestly, I wish Google would have developed their client better and maybe it could have been a contender. I have a funny feeling I'll be letdown by Messenger for Mac 8 :(
 
Blaine said:
I kinda agree. Honestly, I wish Google would have developed their client better and maybe it could have been a contender. I have a funny feeling I'll be letdown by Messenger for Mac 8 :(
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Me too.
There's no reason for such a delay from Microsoft to release A/V support for Messenger:Mac.
The answer is so simple that few people want to accept: Microsoft doesn't want Mac users to have a good client for their protocol. It's a smart (and simple) way to force people to have Windows installed.

It sucks. I hate the fact that 90% of the people in the world are all noobs and decided to use a crap messenger like MSN.
 
Tonight I've noticed MSN is saving my screen name and personal message again, so I'm guessing it's coming pretty soon as they finally fixed that? I read it was to do with the protocol or something.
 
IntelliUser said:
It doesn't work that 'fine' at all when compared with any other IM apps.
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Are you even MSN user? I use both Mac and PC. The windows version is actually pretty fine. May I ask which IM app you're comparing it to? I also use iChat (which is essentially AIM) and Skype. Feature-wise, they are quite similar, or at least similar in a way that end users can't tell the difference. However, I do think Skype has superior A/V support though.

But again, Microsoft Messenger for Mac sucks big time. No offline messaging, no A/V support, it reminds me of ICQ which was once popular more than 10 years back... Other than online text chatting, MSN for Mac does not do much.
 
GamaFu said:
Are you even MSN user? I use both Mac and PC. The windows version is actually pretty fine. May I ask which IM app you're comparing it to? I also use iChat (which is essentially AIM) and Skype. Feature-wise, they are quite similar, or at least similar in a way that end users can't tell the difference. However, I do think Skype has superior A/V support though.

But again, Microsoft Messenger for Mac sucks big time. No offline messaging, no A/V support, it reminds me of ICQ which was once popular more than 10 years back... Other than online text chatting, MSN for Mac does not do much.
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What about all those ads that appear in every WLM windows (including chat window)?
What about those default emoticons that are outdated? Skype and Google Talk have way better emoticons.
What about tabbed chat (please don't mention "MSN Plus").
What about the ability to use video chat in full screen mode?
What about to resize the video window to the size I want, besides chosing "small, medium or large"?
What about all the space in chat window that is wasted and could be used for something else? I'm talking about the space between display pictures (you and contact).

MSN protocol sucks since its birth. The only reason that I took so many people is the same reason why Windows represents almost 90% of the market share of operational systems.
 
davidcmc said:
What about all those ads that appear in every WLM windows (including chat window)?
What about those default emoticons that are outdated? Skype and Google Talk have way better emoticons.
What about tabbed chat (please don't mention "MSN Plus").
What about the ability to use video chat in full screen mode?
What about to resize the video window to the size I want, besides chosing "small, medium or large"?
What about all the space in chat window that is wasted and could be used for something else? I'm talking about the space between display pictures (you and contact).

MSN protocol sucks since its birth. The only reason that I took so many people is the same reason why Windows represents almost 90% of the market share of operational systems.
Click to expand...

1. I use A-Patch to hide the ads, but true, ads is annoying.
2. I don't use emoticons all that much, so this is one of the thing that I don't really care.
3. I don't really like tabbed chat window. Therefore, even if MSN supports it, I probably wouldn't use it. I guess it's just preference. I don't use MSN Plus btw.
4. This is another thing I don't really care about. I am usually multitasking while video chatting.
5. Another thing that doesn't matter much to me.
6. You can actually hide everything and show your conversation only.

(I am assuming we're talking about Windows version here since I did say Mac version sucks, no doubt about that.)

Almost all of them are UI problems which have nothing to do with protocol per se. However, I do think there is lots of room for improvement. On the other hand, I am not quite satisfied with Skype's interface either, both the Mac version and the Windows version. Its tabbed interface isn't as intuitive as I'd like to see. The default interface on Windows is just too cluttered. Showing too much information on one screen or one window is never a good design approach. This is something I learn when I study human-computer interaction (I focus mainly on software interface design).

Anyway, this comes down to one question: which IM do your friends/family use? All my friends use MSN, so I have no other choice. People won't change to other alternative just for one person. (I never ask, but I think it's a reasonable assumption.)
 
WOW bitch bitch moan moan

If you don't like msn don't use it. Don't go beating up the whole entire client, as many people point out it's fairly rock solid on the Windows side and very widely used in europe. Wanna know why people use it, because it was very much the better client years back, and before AIM got good, or Google Talk came along it had already won a wide audience. These people aren't just going to switch to a new platform which none of their friends are on.

The only people to shout at our the Mac Development team, they are the only slackers in this party
 
davidcmc said:
Me too.
There's no reason for such a delay from Microsoft to release A/V support for Messenger:Mac.
The answer is so simple that few people want to accept: Microsoft doesn't want Mac users to have a good client for their protocol. It's a smart (and simple) way to force people to have Windows installed.
Click to expand...

Well, what you said is a no brainer. But Apple is doing the same. You think they develop high quality software for Windows? No, look at iTunes, or even Boot Camp itself (hint: Apple's support and drivers are a joke). Apple doesn't want users to have a good Windows experience on a Mac.

I agree it sucks both ways.
 
GamaFu said:
Are you even MSN user? I use both Mac and PC. The windows version is actually pretty fine. May I ask which IM app you're comparing it to? I also use iChat (which is essentially AIM) and Skype. Feature-wise, they are quite similar, or at least similar in a way that end users can't tell the difference. However, I do think Skype has superior A/V support though.

But again, Microsoft Messenger for Mac sucks big time. No offline messaging, no A/V support, it reminds me of ICQ which was once popular more than 10 years back... Other than online text chatting, MSN for Mac does not do much.
Click to expand...

Ok, about the Windows version (The Mac one, besides the interface is pitiful)

1.It requires .NET. .NET Apps run like Java apps. Which means they're slow and are more prone to registry screw ups (it happened sometimes that Windows Live Messenger wouldn't open AT ALL, I had to Revo-Uninstall it and delete some hidden files to get it working again after a reinstall.
2.Login errors. I can't remember how many times there were login errors and auto-signouts. And those damn error codes. I hate them.
3.Message could not be delivered to all recipiants". Way. Too. Often.
4.Stupid security. When it comes to sending worms, it does nothing to stop when, when I'm trying to send a picture to a friend, I must either install antivirus-plugin or specify my antivirus' scanning executable. Ludicrous.
5.Random crashes and auto signouts. (Even more than a normal Windows app)

These are just a few reasons, off the top of my head. Oh, and I'm comparing them with AIM, iChat, Skype and any other IM app which does NOT use the MSN protocol (which seems to be the faulty one for point 2-3, though sometimes I can sign in from the live website and not from the app itself, wtf). It's got some nice extra features such as winks, interactive avatars and stuff like that, but the communication part itself is so awful that it spoils them.

Mackan said:
Well, what you said is a no brainer. But Apple is doing the same. You think they develop high quality software for Windows? No, look at iTunes, or even Boot Camp itself (hint: Apple's support and drivers are a joke). Apple doesn't want users to have a good Windows experience on a Mac.

I agree it sucks both ways.
Click to expand...

Microsoft has so much market share that it doesn't care about their Mac software. Apple, on the other hand, could lure users into using OS X through their software, which is why I don't think they intentionally write bad software for Windows.

And stop with the 'bad drivers' excuse, there's nothing wrong with BootCamp drivers.
 
davidcmc said:
I hate the fact that 90% of the people in the world are all noobs and decided to use a crap messenger like MSN.
Click to expand...
MSN Messenger isn't crap. If it were truly a piece of garbage then no one would use it. If 90% of the world use MSN Messenger then that means MSN and Microsoft did something right. I will agree the Mac version isn't the best but I still use it occasionally, as im not much a fan of Adium and NO ONE I knows uses iChat.
 
IntelliUser said:
And stop with the 'bad drivers' excuse, there's nothing wrong with BootCamp drivers.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with Boot Camp drivers? Clearly you have no clue what you are talking about there. Go to Apple's own support forum for Boot Camp, or even this forum's Windows section, and you might get a clue.
 
GeraldButton said:
MSN Messenger isn't crap. If it were truly a piece of garbage then no one would use it.
Click to expand...

That's not true at all. Don't know if you noticed, but newbies tend to think that everything that happens to their computer is normal (except getting infected, which they usually realize pretty late anyway). And newbies are the biggest MSN users. I mean, newbies and the experienced users who're forced to use it to accommodate their newbie friends.

If 90% of the world use MSN Messenger then that means MSN and Microsoft did something right.
Click to expand...
Yes, like they bundled it right into the system for years, and now provide a link to it in the recent Windows version. Now, since it was bundled with Xp, that's about it: everybody's gonna use it. Everybody who knows no better.

NO ONE I knows uses iChat.
Click to expand...

When you've got to chose between being able to chat with friends on a crappy protocol and using a good protocol...but no friends, obviously the first choice will be chosen. That gets even worse when you actually don't know there is any other protocol.

Mackan said:
Nothing wrong with Boot Camp drivers? Clearly you have no clue what you are talking about there. Go to Apple's own support forum for Boot Camp, or even this forum's Windows section, and you might get a clue.
Click to expand...

Bootcamp drivers are no worse than any other manufacturer's. The problem is the OS, not the drivers.:rolleyes:
 
GeraldButton said:
MSN Messenger isn't crap. If it were truly a piece of garbage then no one would use it.
Click to expand...

Terrestrial TV is garbage compared to Freeview or Sky, and yet the majority of license payers still use it.

MSN is popular because it is the messengering client that comes with Microsoft Windows, the most popular operating system. Hence why Internet Exploder is also the most popular web browser, despite it also being garbage.

I dislike both official MSN clients very much, and use alternative clients on both platforms.
 
I've just tried it. Don't really care about the video, but it has no new interface. It's pretty much just Messenger 7+audio/video, nothing else as far as I can tell. Back to Adium. :)
 
Well the official beta uses less system resources than the leaked, so I guess thats an improvement at least!
 
Basically, the official beta is just a Messenger:Mac 7 with A/V support and no support for display picture (wtf?!).

According to beta notes pdf (from Microsoft site):

2 Known Issues in Messenger for Mac 8 Beta
2.1 Display pictures do not display in the conversation window
Display pictures do not display in the conversation window for both you and your contacts. Also, you cannot change your display picture from the conversation window or the Preferences dialog.
Click to expand...

Lol. I hope they fix that. A messenger without display picture! :D
 
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