Hey Apple...Adobe has learned its lesson! We want Flash

[mKTank]

Looking at Flex's points though, he's pretty much right. I'm running Ubuntu and putting it side to side with OSX, OSX is an overweight sluggish version of Ubuntu. Incompatibility is because of Cocoa and other stuff that Apple uses. But otherwise, OSX indeed is and feels like just another Linux distro, and that's pretty much what it is technically.

 

[flexengineer]

The mobile application market numbers that you are using only include native apps. The do not include web apps which Flash apps could be included in.

Adobe Flash Platform covers it all, Flash and Flex for the web, Adobe Integrated Runtime (AIR) for the desktop and installable mobile applications. So it does not matter what is being blocked, being Flash and Flex by faking HTML5 is good enough, or AIR by just not supporting it, Apple is still in very risky water because whatever they do it will hurt Flash so the question is: is Apple acting in good faith? If not, it's big trouble for Apple. If yes, everything will keep going as it is, no Flash on iDevices, Flash everywhere else. The truth is you do not know more than I do. I think I documented pretty well the issue though over the pages of posts.

I think we should really leave it to the FTC now. I can't wait to be able to come back here and click a load of little " signs next to your post and call you all on it.

 

[ryrock77]

Flash runs perfect on my Droid X and I always have service unlike AT&T.

I did not have to rewrite any code on my Flash website for it to work. All the lies about touch screen not working with flash was not true. So we now have more smartphone users with flash on android then we have iphone's without flash.

Apple will lose this battle just like they lost the Windows vs Apple market share to the millions of people that want Flash to work on there smartphones.

Flash works on Android but not very well on Apples OS. BY BY iPhone.

 

[applebook]

Um, it doesn't matter what it feels like to you --and the two "feel" similar because they are based on UNIX. The fact remains that OS X isn't Linux but is based on an operating system that predated the arrival of Linux. If anything, Linux and NEXTSTEP owe a lot to another UNIX based system, SunOS.

To say that OS X is basically Linux is like claiming that a Ferrari is a Ford because the Maranello crew is using Ford's windshield wiper system. It's reductionist, ignorant, and even disingenuous, but it's a typical tactic of fanboys who don't want to give credit to the object of their ire.

I find it hilarious that this guy is ranting about how mediocre Apple is at programming and simply buys software and then goes on to tell us about Adobe Flash. LOL. This is too rich, especially on an IPHONE board.

 

[flexengineer]

I find it hilarious that this guy is ranting about how mediocre Apple is at programming and simply buys software and then goes on to tell us about Adobe Flash. LOL. This is too rich, especially on an IPHONE board.

It was in response to some dude saying that Apple will take over Adobe's software business LOL

Give me the name of one single software Apple wrote that is today an industry standard?

Before you say iOS, keep in mind that while Apple control 90% of the application market which is the sell of application, iPhone only account for 3.5% of all phone and 19% of smart phone.

Before you say Final Cut, keep it mind that Apple bought it.

For the record, I carry an iPhone so I will call Apple on its bs here as much and as often as I want no matter how you like it, and I will do so with as much legitimacy as you or anyone else.

 

[Sec102row1]

How is blu-ray "dinosaur" technology?

Apple will not successfully uproot Netflix in the movie/streaming media market if their attempts with Apple TV is any indication.

Because wasn't Blu-Ray dead on arrival? If you think optical media will still be around in a couple years, you might actually have a stash of 8-tracks and beta tapes.
I can stream 1080p right now through my network. Why would I want a disc anymore?

Netflix is solid. I love it and use it all the time. But as for the presence in media, I know you can't be denying Apple's current headlock on everyone else. You think the stock is driving up over $330 just because they make cool devices? Well in part, of course... but make no mistake, the masterplan is to corner the brave new world that is digital content. Movies, tunes, apps. As for Apple TV, this is just the beginning. The ATV kinda sucks right now, depending on your expectations. But when apps hit it, I think it could have good use. It's not for me, as I have had a PS3 since inception and it does it all. Maybe one day when Airplay has practical use, I may add one to the living room.

 

[S.Jobs]

flash is horrible and not stable at all. out of all of my add ons of my browsers, it crashes the most by far. Apple, please stay away from flash

 

[mKTank]

For 90% of the world, Flash runs flawlessly. But these people only had exposure to the joke that is Flash on OSX. On Windows, it never crashes, and never consumes any more than 10% CPU. Half that, even.

 

[anonymous guy]

Because wasn't Blu-Ray dead on arrival? If you think optical media will still be around in a couple years, you might actually have a stash of 8-tracks and beta tapes.
I can stream 1080p right now through my network. Why would I want a disc anymore?

http://www.informationweek.com/news...jhtml?articleID=229000155&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_All

While there is a push towards streaming/cloud based services, Blu Ray isn't quite dead yet. People do like having tangible, physical media when online access isn't available/reliable enough.

 

[applebook]

For 90% of the world, Flash runs flawlessly. But these people only had exposure to the joke that is Flash on OSX. On Windows, it never crashes, and never consumes any more than 10% CPU. Half that, even.

You must have a special processor because on my machine, even 720p content regularly takes well over 10% when the exact same clip played through VLC consumes 15 to 33% less. Yes, Flash does still crash on Windows. I must be using it incorrectly.

Besides, Flash's mediocrity on OS X is an indictment on Adobe, not Apple. After all, OS X is basically just a Linux distro, so it should be easy to program for it, right?

Sent from my Linux based smartphone.

 

[flexengineer]

You must have a special processor because on my machine, even 720p content regularly takes well over 10% when the exact same clip played through VLC consumes 15 to 33% less. Yes, Flash does still crash on Windows. I must be using it incorrectly.

There might be a lot of reasons for that, including maybe the player being responsible but there is more to web based applications that just straight video and I bet you that when HTML5 will be used to do fancy animations it will consume more resources than Flash.

It is like saying you have a TV and a sound system and a DVD player and wondering why you electric bill is higher than mines. Well, is it not obvious?

Let's focus on the positive: Apple called Adobe on resource issues, Adobe got the lesson and did an excellent job this time and delivered fast (Flash 10.2 beta was released a few weeks after the new MacBook AIR and show the same exact 10 fold improvement than on PC), so now let's see when this player will be rolled out everywhere in a few weeks what Apple is going to say.

All this anti Flash thing has nothing to do with performance or user experience, it is opportunism. Apple took a performance problem and instead of helping fixing it entered in a war to kill Flash not because it sucks, but because it is too good and threaten iTunes and AppStore.

 

[iphoneZ]

NO FLASH. flash is pure garbageware by far the worst memory and cpu hog ever seen by mankind

 

[BaldiMac]

Can you quote me, where did I say it is an investigation of Mac? I said FTC and EU are investigating Apple for anti trust violations but you have been trying to confuse everybody by answering non sense to every single of my replies and you are trying to drawn the fish in the water. You will stop before I do, I can tell you that much.

I never said you did. You keep jumping around on this topic, and I have no idea what you are getting at.

I cannot comment on LSO, I do not even know what that is, and I am not an Adobe fanatics, I am not saying Adobe is all white and pretty. I have seen a lot of article claiming Apple is in trouble with personal identification of phones tho. Once again, not my field, I am not a lawyers, I carry a professional liability insurance so if I do something wrong with MY apps, sue me.

Now, could you document your claims? Because you are a lot of work for me but you do not show much sources other than your head.

I apologize for assuming that one of the top flash developers in the world would know what an LSO is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Shared_Object

 

[flexengineer]

I never said you did. You keep jumping around on this topic, and I have no idea what you are getting at.

Here we go again, just check my post Today, 09:35 PM.

I apologize for assuming that one of the top flash developers in the world would know what an LSO is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Shared_Object

Hahaha, touche! That was too easy I guess. I never use the acronym, sorry about that. Can you document with sources that Adobe is openly ignoring the issue and is responsible in the first place? Advertisers misused the local shared object as cookie, I doubt now that Adobe was called that they are going to stay still or even are staying still. They know Apple is waiting for it.

However for the record:

Apple sued over privacy rights in iPhone ads case
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/12/28/apple_sued_over_privacy_rights_in_iphone_ads_case.html

Adobe is not sued over privacy. Apple is.

 

[CylonGlitch]

Apple responsible for 99.4% of mobile app sales in 2009 (Updated)
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/apple-responsible-for-994-of-mobile-app-sales-in-2009.ars

Right, just what I said, when Apple innovated and created a new market, they had, for a while anyway, 100% of the market share. OOOHHHH that is so EVIL of them, they should give all their competitors access to everything ahead of time so that they can be prepared to compete against them before they actually start shipping. That would be GREAT business sense now wouldn't it? It wasn't until 2010 (effectively) that the Android market was establish, of course they had most of the overall market share. But they don't now. I haven't seen the 2010 numbers yet, but let me take a stab in the dark. 90% or more of the market will be split between Apple and Android.

Now, FTC did not drop. If there was nothing, they would drop, right? But this is the thing, the FTC never comment so we will only know the result when the investigation is over, either because the dropped or because they move to a formal investigation or because they take sanctions.

Of course it couldn't be that the FTC is investigating other things as well could it? No... of course they have to come to the same conclusion as the EU at the same time. source

Now, either you believe me that both those investigations were triggered by Adobe, or you Google it, but I can't prove it... I just know it. I never talk about what I do not know.

The WSJ article says outright that it was Adobe who sparked the FTC investigation

 

[applebook]

I never said you did. You keep jumping around on this topic, and I have no idea what you are getting at.



I apologize for assuming that one of the top flash developers in the world would know what an LSO is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Shared_Object

I also apologize...for assuming that he knew anything about phones, Linux, OS X, Unix, computers, or anything.

 

[Mliii]

Yes, let's do it the Apple way... this thread is not doing so good so let's shut it! Try.... just try and see what I'm going to do with the log I have.

Why is calling for a civil conversation and disagreeing without being disagreeable inappropriate?
As the rules say, "This isn't grade school."

Here are the forum rules:

"Instantly Bannable Offenses
These offenses can result in temporary forum suspensions or permanent bans. If you get a warning, heed it!

Insults. Direct personal insult of another forum member (e.g., "You are an idiot.") and other name-calling. Why? Because this isn't grade school. People should be able to discuss or even dispute other's posts without insulting people. You may dispute somebody's opinion but not attack/flame the person who stated it. There are a lot of other non-direct-personal insults that won't necessary get you banned instantly, but depending on the context/nature may lead to post editing, post deletion, warnings, or time-outs. They include telling people to shut up and being extremely or repeatedly rude or sarcastic. It's not your place to tell other users they are not welcome; if they follow the rules, they are welcome. Bottom line -- don't try to tick off others and don't make discussions unnecessarily personal. If somebody else insults you, report their post; their post does not give you a license to break the rules by returning their insults. Although we do not read Private Messages sent between forum members, the rules for appropriate and inappropriate content apply to them as well.
...
Trolling. Do not post in order to anger other members or intentionally cause negative reactions. For a given post, this can be a subjective call, but a pattern of such posting or an especially egregious case will get you banned."

 

[applebook]

Just played a standard 720p video on YouTube, Windows 64-bit, via FireFox.

My CPU is approx. 9-13%, usually 11-13%. I guess my i7-875K is just too weak for Adobe.

 

[flexengineer]

Right, just what I said, when Apple innovated and created a new market, they had, for a while anyway, 100% of the market share. OOOHHHH that is so EVIL of them, they should give all their competitors access to everything ahead of time so that they can be prepared to compete against them before they actually start shipping. That would be GREAT business sense now wouldn't it? It wasn't until 2010 (effectively) that the Android market was establish, of course they had most of the overall market share. But they don't now. I haven't seen the 2010 numbers yet, but let me take a stab in the dark. 90% or more of the market will be split between Apple and Android.

That is what you believe, thank you for sharing. However, the 99% combined with what they tried to push in the TOS constitutes a possible violation of anti trust laws. Here we go again: a company does not have to have an actual monopoly to infringe the law, if Apple abused its initial market dominance to maintain its market dominance then it is a violation of US anti trust law. I am sorry if you do not understand, but the FTC does and is still working on it, that is all what matters to me.

Of course it couldn't be that the FTC is investigating other things as well could it?

That's right, they are also investigating the same practices with music market. See, you might know more than you think actually.

The WSJ article says outright that it was Adobe who sparked the FTC investigation

WST, also widely known as "Apple's unpaid press office", I was surprised we did not hear about that one sooner. Everybody knows Adobe triggered the investigation which is proof that Flash has to do with it. At the end of the day, both EU and FTC accepted the formal complain and triggered a join investigation.

Just played a standard 720p video on YouTube, Windows 64-bit, via FireFox.

My CPU is approx. 9-13%, usually 11-13%. I guess my i7-875K is just too weak for Adobe.

What are those numbers and did you use 10.2?

 

[CylonGlitch]

What are those numbers and did you use 10.2?

They are called Percentages. Wiki page on Percentage

 

[flexengineer]

Why is calling for a civil conversation and disagreeing without being disagreeable inappropriate?
As the rules say, "This isn't grade school."

Here are the forum rules:

"Instantly Bannable Offenses
These offenses can result in temporary forum suspensions or permanent bans. If you get a warning, heed it!

Insults. Direct personal insult of another forum member (e.g., "You are an idiot.") and other name-calling. Why? Because this isn't grade school. People should be able to discuss or even dispute other's posts without insulting people. You may dispute somebody's opinion but not attack/flame the person who stated it. There are a lot of other non-direct-personal insults that won't necessary get you banned instantly, but depending on the context/nature may lead to post editing, post deletion, warnings, or time-outs. They include telling people to shut up and being extremely or repeatedly rude or sarcastic. It's not your place to tell other users they are not welcome; if they follow the rules, they are welcome. Bottom line -- don't try to tick off others and don't make discussions unnecessarily personal. If somebody else insults you, report their post; their post does not give you a license to break the rules by returning their insults. Although we do not read Private Messages sent between forum members, the rules for appropriate and inappropriate content apply to them as well.
...
Trolling. Do not post in order to anger other members or intentionally cause negative reactions. For a given post, this can be a subjective call, but a pattern of such posting or an especially egregious case will get you banned."

I was not call on any of this and I am sorry if I hurt your feelings but I call a cat a cat. I did not say anybody is an idiot, I asked once someone if he was playing stupid, not the same. It was a question. The answer could have been yes, it is called sarcasm.

However for the sake of the conversation I will stick to nicer words.

I did receive a warning from the admin because I was not using the miltiple reply thing which I had no idea it existed. I told the admin the same thing I told you because I could not refresh the page: if I am censured I will take this to the media. This is the answer:

flexengineer,

I assure you that it is in fact a warning that has no effect on your use of the forums. You can access the thread, however, it is likely that you are clicking on a link to a post that no longer exists - e.g. the 4th consecutive post you made, which is now merged into one large post.

 

[flexengineer]

They are called Percentages. Wiki page on Percentage

So 9% is not good? Or was it actually a praise?

 

[CylonGlitch]

That is what you believe, thank you for sharing. However, the 99% combined with what they tried to push in the TOS constitutes a possible violation of anti trust laws. Here we go again: a company does not have to have an actual monopoly to infringe the law, if Apple abused its initial market dominance to maintain its market dominance then it is a violation of US anti trust law. I am sorry if you do not understand, but the FTC does and is still working on it, that is all what matters to me.

Your condescending little snide remarks are not necessary in a civil discussion but are typically a ploy by those who know their back is against the wall and have no other avenue of escape. If you are unable to discuss something without being obnoxious about it, then really, this may not be the place for you. It shall be the last mentioned of it.

Read the article any way you wish, but the "90% app market share" and the EU/FTC investigation are independent of one another. The "90% app market share" was ONLY when there was no competition (2009). The EU/FTC investigation started in late 2010 when they no longer have nearly that market share because there ARE competitors now. No where, in ANY of the links posted does it say that EU or the FTC complaint talk about market share. All it talks about is preventing other companies from developing their own development tools. It really has NOTHING to do with apps themselves, it has to do with their development.

That's right, they are also investigating the same practices with music market.

Of course they are the monster in the closet with this, they do have a huge percentage of the downloadable music. No denying that. And yes, the FTC is investigating; just like they do to anyone who typically has a huge market share and others have failed in. Doesn't mean anything is wrong, we'll see what the outcome is.

WST, also widely known as "Apple's unpaid press office", I was surprised we did not hear about that one sooner. Everybody knows Adobe triggered the investigation which is proof that Flash has to do with it. At the end of the day, both EU and FTC accepted the formal complain and triggered a join investigation.

And so, they looked into it. EU asked Apple to change, and they said, "OK". US hasn't put forth anything yet so we don't know what will come out of it. So what do you want Apple to do, say, "OH so sorry, we will allow anything and everything by anyone for any reason to be written and run?" Ain't gonna happen, not by Apple, not by ANYONE.

 

[Moyank24]

if I am censured I will take this to the media.

You are at the point now where you are embarrassing yourself.

That being said, can you take this to the media anyway? I think the LOLZ factor would be worth it.

 

[Mliii]

I think you raise some great points, FLEXENGINEER. I appreciate your passion. And I don't pretend to have your knowledge about this subject.
I've always thought that giving iPhone users a choice between using Flash and not using Flash made sense. It strikes me that it gives the consumer a choice between longer battery life and a better overall web experience. (even Apple must think there is SOME need for choice given that they approved the App that allows limited flash translation- my layman's attempt at describing it).
And I really have no favorite in the battle between Apple and Adobe. I want battery life, stability AND a good user experience and I don't care which company gives that to me.