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Hey Apple...Adobe has learned its lesson! We want Flash
- Thread starter TapHappy
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Since one of the talking points used in this thread in favor of Flash has been 'wait until 10.2', here's Engadget's review of 10.2
Here are some of the finer points (selected quotes from article courtesy of John Gruber):
In summary: it can play 480p on dual-core devices, single-core devices are still incredibly hard to watch, and Adobe is still claiming that Flash will improve 'soon.' Soon being what they've said since the inception of Flash. Certainly seems like the iPad and iPhone are missing out, right guys?!
Here are some of the finer points (selected quotes from article courtesy of John Gruber):
In summary: it can play 480p on dual-core devices, single-core devices are still incredibly hard to watch, and Adobe is still claiming that Flash will improve 'soon.' Soon being what they've said since the inception of Flash. Certainly seems like the iPad and iPhone are missing out, right guys?!
Biggest thing ive ever heard or read about flash is "YouTube uses flash!"...ya, so what? YouTube app is better than using the website, and if you go to the site from any mobile phone it will take you to a cellphone compatible version.
It just seems like Adobe is trying to hold on to flash for dear life when people are trying to get rid of it. I never liked it, it can make a quad core PC cry for its mama sometimes for no good reason.
It just seems like Adobe is trying to hold on to flash for dear life when people are trying to get rid of it. I never liked it, it can make a quad core PC cry for its mama sometimes for no good reason.
The one thing I have learned from apple is they dont care what you think or want, so if you want flash then switch to an Android and stop asking for it. As for these crashes and lag issues with flash on phones, I have yet to see on my inspire 4G. It runs perfect on nhl.com and regular flash websites. I have also had the iPhone 3g, 3gs, and 4, so I'm not a Apple hater just wanted something new till the iPhone 5 comes out because I can't stand all the issues with my iPhone 4. In the end if it was up to me I woukd just make it optional to activate like Android does or at least on demand style. Flash is just one of those nice things to have that you don't need.
BTW all flash is these day are ads that are just plain annoying.
BTW all flash is these day are ads that are just plain annoying.
And this is what Youtube engineers have to say about it (besides the fact that you can't play millions of embeds with your iPhones and iPad, not until all bloggers convert to HTML5 beta which might take years since most dont even know Youtube player is in Flash or requires it):
http://apiblog.youtube.com/2010/06/flash-and-html5-tag.html
"We’re very happy to see such active and enthusiastic discussion about evolving web standards - YouTube is dependent on browser enhancement in order for us to improve the video experience for our users. While HTML5’s video support enables us to bring most of the content and features of YouTube to computers and other devices that don’t support Flash Player, it does not yet meet all of our needs. Today, Adobe Flash provides the best platform for YouTube’s video distribution requirements, which is why our primary video player is built with it."
I guess you are not playing much web games, I guess you are not interested in playing Hulu in the brosser without paying money to Apple, I guess you do not want to play Netflix in any browser without to install any app and give any credit card number to Apple, I guess you are not much interested in millions of Youtube embeds all other the world (you can't play embeds on iPhone or iPad or any device without Flash for that matter, unless they are converted to the HTML5 beta first, it will take years before a fraction get converted, must blogger dont even know they posted a Flash player from Youtube), I guess you are not interested in Amazon new offering to compete with Netflix, you are not interested in paying less on Amazon for your entrainment (Amazon is heavily based on Flash for media):
Amazon Takes On Netflix With Movie Streaming Service
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/02/amazon-takes-on-netflix/
"It plays directly in the browser... Since the video is in Flash they are not viewable on Apple mobile devices such as the iPad and iPhone"
The list is going on and on because you are stuck 5 years ago when Flash was just video, when in fact it is now the leading technology for applications across all screen, all platforms and all browser or operating systems. Of course, I am talking about full blown enterprise class applications with full content protection and advanced data management capabilities among dozens of exclusive features, things that do not even remotely exist in HTML5 with Javascript, therefore things you will never see on iOS in the browser, you basically pay Apple the right to browse the web through their proprietary apps.
How does flash compete with itunes or the app store??If I want to play a flash game or watch youtube on my pc fine, if I want to buy music or apps for my iphone flash can't help me.
Flash and Silverlight are the only technology allowing to stream content from studios and labels directly in the browser without paying any cut to anybody or requiring the approval and validation of anyone, therefore you could buy any music and any movie directly in the browser with Flash and cheaper than on Apple's iTunes or AppStore, you can't with HTML5 and that is why you are ejected from the browser and forced into native proprietary applications for which Apple gets 30% of all sales and subscription revenue and a big cut of advertising revenue.
On the browser, 100% of the sales goes to the content owner and 100% of the advertising revenue goes to the content owner as well (or the content distributor if the site is operated by a third party). Users might not care (even though lot of them when it right away in the browser in a snap), but businesses do care very much so since it's their bottom line.
All Flash ads are being converted to HTML5, Adobe has released a technology aimed at the advertising industry allowing them to convert Flash ads into HTML5 ads. Are you going to be against HTML5 when all ads will be just that? Nice try.
That is what Apple wants, except it's called Quicktime.
I just use Skyfox for the little bit I need flash. Done.
Congratulation, you poluted your phone with one more proprietary application that you spend $4 for, all that to get the right to see video free for all. But you.
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Funny, I wonder how I'm able to stream content from the studios via Netflix on my iPad then. Or listen to music via Pandora on my iPhone...
Oh yeah? And where and how do you play those applications and media? Certainly not in the browser, you are talking about native iOS applications and you might not care but nobody wants to give 30% to Apple for something they can do with 0% cut and directly on the browser everywhere else, without to mention free of any Apple scrutiny or god damn approval.
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Netflix app is free and no 30% cut to Apple.
We'll see what happens June 30. If Netflix has to offer in-app and the 30% will cable companies too? I'm thinking not.
Can you watch Hulu for free? No you can't, it's paid app or nothing because they explicitly forbid anyone to stream their content in the browser outside of Flash, that include the native iOS Flash wannabe such as Skyrocket or Skyfire or whatever it's called. You pay for Netflix anyway so of course they do not charge for the app, but free services such as Hulu are most of the time if not always for a fee on iOS outside of the browser. Same thing for affordable alternative such as Amazon, there is a reason why it's cheaper, they say "no thank you" to Apple and its 30% cut, they roll that onto the user, and voila cheaper media, same content just cheaper and no download, purchase or install just to check it out. Or buy it. Or whatever the provider want to do with it...
Of course iOS users do not know better for the most, but as Android and Flash spread it is going to become so obvious that the backfire will be pretty serious.
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Can you explain to me what refrains me from playing Hulu in the browser with my Flash Player 10.1, 10.2 or 10.3 on Android or any Flash enabled smartphone, tablet or TV for free? Sounds like the believe of an iOS user, that is how good Apple is at screwing its consumers.
If it works in the browser on your computer it will work on Flash Player 10.1 anywhere being a mobile phone, a tablet, a TV, on any OS, any platform and any browser. But not on Ipad or iPhone, from 1 to 5 and probably beyond.
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WTF does Hulu have to do with this?
Either way, it doesn't matter as the point was the Netflix app is free and Apple's not getting a cut of it (for now). This is contrary to what you seemed to believe.
Hint: Hulu itself.
Take a look at hulu plus, they want you to pay if you want mobile hulu.
Hint: Hulu itself.
Take a look at hulu plus, they want you to pay if you want mobile hulu.
So you are claiming that I can't play Hulu on my Flash Player 10.1 enabled phone in the browser for free? You are saying that Hulu blocks its free website on every mobile devices in the browser just because it is mobile, and not because Flash is not supported? You are saying that it is not only on iOS and Flash incapable devices that Hulu requires you to get the Plus app because they can't give it to you for free with ads in the browser using 10.1 like everywhere else Flash runs? Right, did I get you right? Because I will shoot a video if I have too.
Update: Actually, you are right, all you have to do is make it believe it is a browser:
http://mashable.com/2010/05/24/hulu-android/
No need to install apps, buy Skyfire or spend anything or wait for anything. That's the power of Flash and it's made possible by its obliquity, which Apple tries so hard to destroy. I have to admit Hulu sucks to do that though, but I also understand that mobile is not part of thir initial license for ad supported content and it takes a while to negotiate those with the studios so we will see... Plus, studios would require full Flash contnt protection and that was never available prior to July 2010. I doubt Hulu will never play for free on Flash enabled devices.
It is also unclear whether 10.1 devices can play Hulu for free right now, my developer tells me it does work on his (I do not have an Android, I dont do mobile apps until Android market gets organized), so I will try to get a video. If anyone has Flash Player 10.1+ on mobile let us know if Hulu works in the browser, if not does the trick above works.
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Just so you know buddy, none of the hulu talk had anything to do with Flash, just pointing out that its not a free service for smartphones like you claimed without some workarounds.
"the power of flash"
Come on.My fans are humming away at 6200 rpm and temps are at 81C. What am I doing? Watching House on Hulu with Adobe's latest and greatest 10.2 version of Flash for the Mac.
They can't make Flash run well without crazy battery compromises or excessive cpu usage (even with gpu acceleration!) even on a computer. Why would I expect anything even comparable on a mobile device?
Well, Hulu requires and is entirely dependent on Flash to play free content in the browser. So, Flash is going to be the difference between having to pay or not. Very relevant
My fans are humming away at 6200 rpm and temps are at 81C. What am I doing? Watching House on Hulu with Adobe's latest and greatest 10.2 version of Flash for the Mac. They can't make Flash run well without crazy battery compromises or excessive cpu usage (even with gpu acceleration!) even on a computer. Why would I expect anything even comparable on a mobile device?
Can you document that? Any video, benchmark, published references? Or is it just on your word we have to believe it, from the top of your head? You are saying Adobe is publishing misleading demonstrations and numbers, it is pretty serious, if you lie it is defamation, you have to document or make clear that you can't prove it. Can you give us exact CPU numbers, a video would be great, and make sure it says Flash Player on the CPU usage also make sure to let us know everything that runs of course.
MAX Sneaks : Flash Player Video Performance Improvements
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geK7geL3I40
Of course I am on MacBook and I have none of the problems you are describing, weird...
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Hulu itself blocks mobile devices from playing the site, even if you have Flash installed. However there are work arounds such as on the Honeycomb tablet (Xoom) you simply install a modified version of flash from the XDA dev site. Easy and works. Most phones will get the finger from Hulu as they have agreements and restrictions on what can play the shows they host.
They simply don't have licensing fee's to cover mobile players and I think it's fairly obvious the networks don't want us streaming Hulu to our mobile devices that can easily hook up to our HD TV's via a cable. That in a nutshell it's bad for cable TV and the bulk of the networks revenue.
Just as they blocked Hulu from streaming on Google TV, they are trying to block that avenue for people to bypass cable tv subscriptions. Honestly it will never be free, so you either figure out a hack around the rules or you pay for the servcie. Simple as that.
You're right and I don't like that alternative you refer to, I rather prefer the disguise it's less intrusive. I guess I might have to take back most of what I said about Hulu... Even though I have faith because virtually all device manufacturers and lot of major content owners or distributors have agreements related to the Flash Platform through the Open Screen Project (OSP), so I differ a bit from your assessment in the sense that I believe it is more a question of Flash being only recently available on mobile (Flash is on the studios "list" of accepted DRM and content protection technologies, and that's how Hulu is offered in the browser, therefore without Flash there is no Hulu in the browser even if they make it available) and Hulu not having fully negotiated distribution agreements for mobile yet. It can be Hulu playing hardball, or it can just be time doing its job.
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Come on folks, it's pretty obvious someone is being paid to troll this thread. Just ignore him.
Could you please stop saying this, it is not true and I am taking it pretty seriously. I am not paid for this and I am as much if not more of an Apple user and consumer as yourself so what are you talking about trolling? Did I start this thread?
As far as my credential, you can google or linkedin my name, it's Stephane Beladaci and check for yourself, I cant be more transparent. I run my business and I chose the technologies I want, Adobe hires me as technical architect few weeks a year when they need me because I am good at what I do but that's it. Last time it was one of the top 10 broadcasting networks in the country that I convinced to base its hundreds of thousand hours of video archive (30 years, 5 channels) on Flash Platform with semantic analysis, indexing, face recognition, streaming, sharing and full text search on all screens. I was in competition with an HTML5 offering and I won, like hands down won and it takes way more than being paid by Adobe to accomplish that, it takes a technology that wins it.
However, I am not an Adobe employee and they do not even comment my claims privately when I ask to. Seeing through Apple's game only takes knowledge and common sense, Adobe has nothing to do with it. Actually, I probably discussed the matter with people from Apple as much if not more as with people from Adobe being developer, top executive or significant share holders.
I am absolutely and incontestably independent and free of all pressure or interest other than the fact that I chose Flash, period. As a matter of fact, I could lose gigs with Adobe if they get a wind of this and turn not liking it but I truly do not care, there are probably 10 positions or projects to fill out there for each available Flash developer from junior to $250/h guru.
When HTML5 and Safari on mobile will deliver better than Flash then I will do the exact same thing for HTML5 instead. But it is a joke, a big whole scam lead by Apple, a serious developer's worst nightmare on top of Javascript being the Barbie of all programing languages. I do not like to play with dolls and even if, I would rather play with Ken
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********. Even Adobe acknowledges its plugin runs poorly on Mac OS X. It's not in dispute by any means. You'd have to be an Adobe apologist to claim otherwise.
Why do the mods allow this thread to remain open? Seriously? [. . .] Can we just agree to disagree and lock the thread already?
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Pretty sneaky how you went back and edited your post to add that browser qualification so that my point doesn't make as much sense anymore. That just makes you look so desperate.