Hey Apple...Adobe has learned its lesson! We want Flash

[BobHail]

Considering Apple is a business, and businesses exist primarily to make money, yes, it has a LOT to do with money.

And Apple is definitely losing a cut, because of their "war against Flash". Huge amount of people are rejecting Apple´s iToys and buying something else, because of this absurdity.

It is, but if having a stereo is of the utmost importance to you, then clearly, the lack of a stereo should make it NOT the best car around. Your option then, is to go buy another car... one that has a stereo and by virtue of that stereo being so important to you, is the better car.

Nope, it would probably be just a worse car WITH stereo. I don´t wanna buy that. So I´m not buying either one. I´ll walk and wait for better options or that the best manufacturer will give me an option for the stereo.

 

[Havas]

Honestly from a guy who employs 9 Flash/Flex developers some of the replies on this topic just get me heated up. If you think life on the IPhone is going to get any better then you are not really keeping up to date are you?

Flex/Flash has had such a huge boost lately that we cant even keep up with the work we are getting, every sam dick and harry wants a fancy flex site and they want it quick and HTML 5 just cant deliver even half of what you can do with Flex/Flash/AIR/AIR Mobile not to mention being able to use the majority of your source code to then deploy to Android/IPhone (Yes it's coming very soon Flash to Iphone I'm in the beta)/Desktop (All OS's)/Web (Looks and feels the same in every browser)/RIM/TV/Kiosks and more coming.

HTML will thrive and many who can afford it will do HTML 5 versions of their sites but Games will not, High quality animations and 3D content will not sites like vw.co.uk that I worked on have stated to us that they wont go html because it just cant do what Flex can do and their biggest beef with HTML 5 is it's still HTML it's long winded, doesn't work right on every browser and is a long way away at which point Flash will be so far ahead of the game you will have to wait for HTML 6 to catch up and so the cycle starts again.

Flash has a lot more heavy weights backing it up than the Apple platform has and it will succeed because those companies combined are a much larger force than apple can ever hope to become and the product range is so vast and wide that apple is slowly becoming a minority and not a majority.

Ps. I have an IPhone 4 which I admit I am fond off but I also have a Galaxy S and an IPad and I do all my work on my MacBook Pro which I love.

Lately though I've fallen in love with my Galaxy S especially after we started developing some AIR Mobile apps like Digg Reader etc on it, I can hardly tell the difference between our Flex apps and the others with the exception of slightly longer start up time it's perfectly functional and data wise much faster due to AMF instead of XML.

Any way my 2 cents, feel free to flame away but I've been in this industry for over 15 years and I get pretty heated up when I hear some of the things people say without knowing what things used to be like and without taking into account the contributions and jobs created by the efforts of companies like Adobe and others like them, if apple went open and gave people choices they would create many more jobs, help many more people and make much more money in the process and their fan base would sky rocket because yes they make good software but they lock it down too much.

I pay for it I want to do what ever I want with it, that is what companies like Google and Adobe give us and that is why someone who hasn't been in this industry long enough and witnessed it's growth can not really understand were some of us are coming from.

Ask your self this questing before you flame me:

Would you be happy if flash totally disappeared and then millions lost their jobs which then caused millions of Java developers to loose their jobs which then flooded the market will millions of HTML developers which then caused them to be worth peanuts and there be too many of them which in turn causes more unemployment and misery in the world?

Google/Adobe and several others provide way more jobs and gratification than Apple does.

 

[citizenal]

I wanted flash, like 2 years ago.. but like the majority is saying, htlm5 is becoming more standard. Now asked me this question 2 years ago and I would agree 100%. Sad what waiting a couple of years will do to you.

 

[Moyank24]

Yes, that comparison was ridiculous. I´m glad that you noticed. I made it just to point out how ridiculous your point was.

Again, it doesn´t matter if all the people in the world would switch to Mac OS X or iOS overnight. iOS would still have major weakness (lack of Flash) and Safari would run Flash noticeable worse than other browsers like Firefox. So of course people would complain about these "Apple mistakes" if you will. Simple as that.

It´s like buying a car with no stereo (even if it´s the best car around otherwise) and the manufacturer denies installing one in the car. Don´t you all think that´s kind of huge PITA and a shame?

Then answer the question. Who is laughing at Apple? The highest benchmark for success is the bottom line. Apple today is doing better than it ever has. That was my point.

Obviously not having flash on the phone is a huge PITA for some users. Yet they continue to buy the phone. They only complain after the fact. If the number of flash wanters is so high, then shall we assume they don't buy the latest revision come June? iPhone sales will plummet and then Apple will have to make a change. People have to protest with their wallets, and so far they haven't done so. They continue to give Apple their money and then complain how horrible the company is. It just makes no sense.

To use your example of a stereo-less car...as great as the car may be there are always going to be other options. If they want a car with a stereo there is no good reason to buy one that doesn't have it. The car wouldn't sell...then the manufacturer would be forced into action.

As you say, we will see what happens this year. But with a new iPad expected and another phone possibly on the way is there any reason to believe their success won't continue?

I'm not saying flash shouldn't be an option, by the way. Just because I have banished it from my Mac doesn't mean I think everyone should. My point is that most people complaining have the phone. So they can complain all they want yet Apple still has their money. If anyone is laughing, it's Apple. Apple, and any other company, will listen when people choose to STOP giving them their money.

 

[CylonGlitch]

And Apple is definitely losing a cut, because of their "war against Flash". Huge amount of people are rejecting Apple´s iToys and buying something else, because of this absurdity.

Certainly they are losing people because of it; but can it really be that much considering how much they have grown since the iPhone has come out? I think that could be part of the problem. If they released the iPhone and it didn't sell well; things didn't grow so big then maybe they would need to support flash to gain market share. But because it did grow and they have rapidly become a major player, it just reaffirms the choice to not support flash or that it isn't necessary. Could they be bigger then they are today if they supported it? Yes, that's for sure, but it is very hard to put a number on that. Or could it be, that supporting flash caused so many more problems that people would have rejected the phone completely and thus they would be no where as big as they are? We don't know, we will never know, but what we do know, is that they are a hell of a lot more successful today then they were 10 years ago, so they should be making the right decisions, right?

 

[flexengineer]

Sounds like Flash has a lot going for it. So... why do you even care so much what Apple does? And why does Adobe?

That's right, I should spend all that time billing my clients! But I do care and I can't freaking stand lie, it is almost a phobia! I can't stand when a company abuses its dominance to brainwash people, when that happens I setup a Google Alert and post comment on as many articles and blog posts as possible. I only talk about what I know but when I do I am freaking loud.

Everyone is Steve Jobs's victim here, screw him!

 

[Mliii]

Ask your self this questing before you flame me:

Would you be happy if flash totally disappeared and then millions lost their jobs which then caused millions of Java developers to loose their jobs which then flooded the market will millions of HTML developers which then caused them to be worth peanuts and there be too many of them which in turn causes more unemployment and misery in the world?

Google/Adobe and several others provide way more jobs and gratification than Apple does.

I think Blacksmiths made the same argument when the horse and buggy was replaced by the automobile...
I'm a consumer. I don't give a crap about who is "right" in this ego driven nonsense between Apple and Adobe. I don't give a crap about whether something is using Flash or HTML5 or magic fairy dust... I just want my devices to work, not crash, not suck battery life dry and not cut me off from pieces of the internet.
Sometimes some of you heavily invested in whatever portion of the industry you're in can't see the forest through the trees...
Do you really think the average smart phone user/consumer really cares one bit which technology does what I'm asking for? We just want things to work!

 

[CylonGlitch]

Would you be happy if flash totally disappeared and then millions lost their jobs which then caused millions of Java developers to loose their jobs which then flooded the market will millions of HTML developers which then caused them to be worth peanuts and there be too many of them which in turn causes more unemployment and misery in the world?

If a market changes for your job and you don't change with it, then you deserve to be unemployeed. I worked with a woman who had spent 30 years writing cobol code for a large company. In 2005 she was finally laid off because there was no work for her; they had moved to writing in C and she REFUSED to learn it. I didn't feel bad for her, I felt pity that she was so ignorant that she refused to change.

I don't see flash going away any time soon, but if things are moving to HTML5 and there is more of a future in it, then learning it is a good thing. If you refuse to learn it and it does become dominate, don't complain if you can't find work (you the general term, not you personally).

I don't see a flash developer or an HTML5 developer out of work any time soon; but if there comes a time where the writing is on the wall that one is on the way out, gotta go where the money is.

 

[Moyank24]

That's right, I should spend all that time billing my clients! But I do care and I can't freaking stand lie, it is almost a phobia! I can't stand when a company abuses its dominance to brainwash people, when that happens I setup a Google Alert and post comment on as many articles and blog posts as possible. I only talk about what I know but when I do I am freaking loud.

Everyone is Steve Jobs's victim here, screw him!

LOL

You know these statements make you sound like some hooded guy living in a cabin in North Dakota.

Why don't we make a deal? You stay away from forums filled with guru lovers and I'll stay away from your blog? That way we can all coexist in the peace of our beliefs.

 

[flexengineer]

Wow... It always amazes me how an effort at a rational discussion of something where reasonable minds can disagree can devolve into a name calling, stereotyping shouting match more fit for 9 year olds...
I'm not an Apple "fan", but I appreciate the simplicity and ease of use of many of their products.
I'm not a "rich" person by any stretch, and there are plenty of devices manufactured by other companies that are even more fancy than Apple's.
And the statistics about growth of the various platforms shoots holes in your argument that their dominance is solely based on their 'first to market' strategy.
But even if all that is true, from a consumer's point of view, no one wants to have Flash crash systems and suck battery life dry (whoever's fault it is) just as no one wants to go to a webpage and not be able to view content. Just make it work...

If you buy an iPhone or a Mac you are rich compare to the masses! This is America!

I love Apple's product too, last time I checked I am typing on a MacBook Pro 17' with my iPhone 4 charging on it as we speak. But there is something in this country called freedom of speech and if I believe Apple sucks as a company abusing its consumers I am free to say it and repeat it as long and as many times as I want.

As far as performance is concerned I will just copy and paste what I said before:

Apple refused to collaborate with Adobe for years! Adobe stopped paying attention and ignored the Macintosh 10% market share, can't blame them, what are they supposed to do keep fighting with Apple to support its own OS and spend money on a 10% market share against Apple's will? Apple did not even release hardware acceleration API until few months ago, that is when Adobe came up with this fantastic new player. I am sure the FTC has something to do with it.

Check the new player for yourself, the demo below is on both Mac and PC. Note that Apple refused to provide Adobe with pre release to optimize Flash and instead their PR office starting to spread lies, but Adobe saw it coming and delivered anyway just week after the public release of the new MacBook AIR:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geK7geL3I40

 

[BaldiMac]

Point noted regarding choice, in the general overall purchase power sense. But you fail to answer why Flash cannot be offered as an option on the iPhone.

In short, what's the harm? Queue: Apple's HTML5 promotion

I didn't fail to answer that question. I've addressed it in several recent posts. And you answered it again. Providing Flash as an option will slow down the adoption of HTML5 and related technologies.

So how do you know that Flash will ever die? You have a ball of fortune? What if it never dies?

And let´s say in 10 years Flash is complitely vanished and HTML5 adopted, but I die in a car accident just in 10 years. That means I suffered freaking ten years of my life without Flash, because of Apple.

Option would only make the transition less painless.

I never claimed it would die. I think it will remain popular for more than a decade. The content that I may miss (which is decreasing over time) is less important to me than the disadvantages of Flash, as well as the principle of not supporting a format that I believe is one of the most egregious privacy intruders of the last decade.

 

[flexengineer]

LOL

You know these statements make you sound like some hooded guy living in a cabin in North Dakota.

Why don't we make a deal? You stay away from forums filled with guru lovers and I'll stay away from your blog? That way we can all coexist in the peace of our beliefs.

Your guru attacked us, your guru is up for a treat this year.

And I love Apple's product too, last time I checked I am typing on a MacBook Pro 17' with my iPhone 4 charging on it as we speak so I have legitimacy writing here as much as you do!. There is something in this country called freedom of speech and if I believe Apple sucks as a company abusing its consumers I am free to say it and repeat it as long and as many times as I want, on as many places as I want. Get over it!

 

[BobHail]

format that I believe is one of the most egregious privacy intruders of the last decade.

Yeah, and Apple isn´t?

 

[CylonGlitch]

Exactly. The average consumer is the victim here. They buy an iPad and soon notice that they cannot visit and use some of their favorite sites. Things just DOESN´T WORK!!!

Then return it and buy a Galaxy S. Obviously for them, the iPad wasn't the best choice. There is no one perfect item for everyone.

Sure they could allow people to enable Flash, but for whatever reason they chose not to allow it. Thus, if that is a deal killer for you (again, you generally, not personally) take your money elsewhere.

 

[BaldiMac]

Yeah, and Apple isn´t?

No...

Any rationale behind your claim?

 

[onepoint]

I didn't fail to answer that question. I've addressed it in several recent posts. And you answered it again. Providing Flash as an option will slow down the adoption of HTML5 and related technologies.

...whereas we agree that adoption of HTML5 is the driving force here.

 

[BobHail]

Thanks for the love, makes up for the heat Even though I can take it.

Sure. I love Apple products, they make my life easier, BUT I will raise my voice of criticism when there is a valid reason.

 

[Havas]

I couldn't put those points any better and like I said in my previous post Apple fanboys that refuse to look past Steve Jobs massive balls and ego, your life on the IPhone will progressively get worse and worse and I'm not against you buying apples etc I would not wish any harm to any company that is providing jobs etc.

But if you are happy for Apple to dictate your lives then feel free, tomorrow some new tech will come out that steps on apples toes and they would probably deny you access to that too, me I want to see everything, use everything and enjoy the massive amount of content out there that is only going to get bigger and bigger.

You feel free to wait until about 2022 when it's becomes W3C and companies actually take it seriously by then the web will be so flooded with Flex/Flash/AIR Mobile you wont even need a browser lol.

Banking: Flex
Gaming: Flex/Flash
3D: Flash
Interactivity: Flash
Quality: Flex/Flash
Proper programming language: (Cheaper/Faster/Better/Re-usable) Flex

Many car sites, bike sites etc are moving to Flex. VW, Fiat etc so many on a daily basis starting up new projects all in Flash and you wont get to enjoy it or any new tech that comes out that takes control away from Steve Jobs.

It's getting faster and better every month and everyone except Apple is jumping on the bandwagon, I for one hope they get taught a lesson some time in the near future and change their ways because I do like their products but like many others I too am shifting to greener pastures where I can do more of what I want.

Then again there are probably more normal people in this world than there are geeks or are there really? Looking at how fast Android is growing.

 

[dccorona]

I find you anti-Flash (pro-Apple) people funny. The only time I have any problems with Flash is with too little bandwidth over WiFi.

The real story here is simple: If Apple can't control it (ie. make money on it), they don't want it.

CBS used to have some of their top shows available by Flash on their website for free. Checked recently?? Hardly any free left. All have been ported to Apples QT, and available through Itunes for 1.99 and up per episode.

Nothing against making money, but BE honest about it.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Apple doesn't make money off HTML5, which iOS supports fully, and which CBS could easily offer their free tv shows in if they chose to do so without Apple blocking them on any of their platforms. Maybe the transition had just as much to do with CBS wanting to make money as it did with Apple.

 

[Mliii]

If you buy an iPhone or a Mac you are rich compare to the masses!

Dude, back away from the keyboard...

I'm rich because, instead of spending my money on (fill in the blank), I save it and spend it on a Mac or an iPhone? No. It's called prioritization.

And because you are a zealot for your cause, you're not hearing me.
I DON'T CARE whether it works with Flash or HTML5 or something else...
I DON'T CARE whether Apple is right or wrong or whether Adobe is right or wrong...
I DON'T CARE if complaints about Flash are lies from the depths of Hell itself and,
I DON'T CARE if Steve Jobs is the devil himself...
Just make my stuff work. Just don't crash. Just don't eat battery life. Just don't fence me off from portions of the internet.

 

[BobHail]

No...

Any rationale behind your claim?

For starters, they can see where your iPhone is 24/7 and collects data on it. Also they can listen everything around your phone, even when the phone is turned off. Only not when battery is removed, but of course you cannot do that. But this is the same also with every modern phone, not just Apple.

Talking about Google, Facebook or laptop/iMac cameras, don´t get me started...

I pointed that Apple isn´t the only one, just to point out how ridiculous your comment was that "only Adobe violates privacy".

Yes, that´s right, "only Adobe". Keep living the dream man!

 

[flexengineer]

Dude, back away from the keyboard...
I DON'T CARE whether it works with Flash or HTML5 or something else...
I DON'T CARE whether Apple is right or wrong or whether Adobe is right or wrong...
I DON'T CARE if complaints about Flash are lies from the depths of Hell itself and,
I DON'T CARE if Steve Jobs is the devil himself...
Just make my stuff work. Just don't crash. Just don't eat battery life. Just don't fence me off from portions of the internet.

Then you are going to LOVE Flash Player 10.2!!! Oh wait, no you can't... damn it.

MAX Sneaks : Flash Player Video Performance Improvements
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geK7geL3I40

 

[mKTank]

Judging by how Frash runs on the iDevices, Adobe did indeed learn their lesson.

But most people in this thread are too fanboyish to accept that.

 

[Moyank24]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

LOL

You know these statements make you sound like some hooded guy living in a cabin in North Dakota.

Why don't we make a deal? You stay away from forums filled with guru lovers and I'll stay away from your blog? That way we can all coexist in the peace of our beliefs.

Your guru attacked us, your guru is up for a treat this year.

And I love Apple's product too, last time I checked I am typing on a MacBook Pro 17' with my iPhone 4 charging on it as we speak so I have legitimacy writing here as much as you do!. There is something in this country called freedom of speech and if I believe Apple sucks as a company abusing its consumers I am free to say it and repeat it as long and as many times as I want, on as many places as I want. Get over it!

The fact that you think they are abusing customers yet continue to give them your money is hysterical to me.

Stop giving them your money. That will be louder than anything you can write in a blog named applesucks.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but to register
on a forum just to argue with people seems a little over dramatic and attention-seeking.

 

[BobHail]

Just make my stuff work. Just don't crash. Just don't eat battery life. Just don't fence me off from portions of the internet.

Yes, isn´t that what everyone wants? But our stuff just DOESN´T WORK. Thanks to Apple not giving us the Flash option.