Hey Apple...Adobe has learned its lesson! We want Flash

[flexengineer]

The fact that you think they are abusing customers yet continue to give them your money is hysterical to me.

Stop giving them your money. That will be louder than anything you can write in a blog named applesucks.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but to register
on a forum just to argue with people seems a little over dramatic and attention-seeking.

Well I do not anymore! I did because I was stupid enough to give it a try and got locked in a 2 years contract, losing my phone is the middle of it and having to buy a new one therefor my iPhone 4.

HOWEVER, I just changed my credit card and refuse to provide my new number to iTunes because I will not be giving Apple one more dime. Guess what happened? I cannot install any free application AND I cannot update my existing applications neither! Yes you heard it, I cannot update application I bought (with money), and I cannot install free applications on a phone I paid $600 for.

Thanks god I did not buy iPad, because this is what I am getting:

BlackBerry PlayBook and iPad Comparison: Web Fidelity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s72rGDUn2uo

And my next phone will be an Android, hopefully by the time I need to change it someone will have come up with a product that looks and feels even better than iPhone.

PS: do not give me the BS about PlayBook battery, I am close to the source and I can guarantee you that they are lies spread by Apple PR office!! PlayBook battery is a new technology no one even saw yet, pre release ws not including that new battery.

 

[BaldiMac]

I pointed that Apple isn´t the only one, just to point out how ridiculous your comment was that "only Adobe violates privacy".

Yes, that´s right, "only Adobe". Keep living the dream man!

Now you are just making stuff up. I never said anything of the sort.

 

[CylonGlitch]

Yes, isn´t that what everyone wants? But our stuff just DOESN´T WORK. Thanks to Apple not giving us the Flash option.

But at the same time, in my experience, and others who have posted here, it doesn't work because it CRASHES and causes other problems. Thus, for people like myself, we would rather have more limited access then crashing browsers.

But that choice, and experience is up to each person individually. Sure could Adobe's flash gotten better, and not crash as much, I guess. But after fighting with it for so long, some of us have given up caring about it and would rather do without. I would like to see HTML5 take over, but because it is an open standard and not dependent on Adobe.

But if you have better experience with flash, enjoy it and good for you. When it comes to the MAC, you have all the options in the world. When it comes to iOS, you still have an option; just not one you really want -- either buy an iOS device or don't. But ultimately, the choice is yours.

Would I rather have Flash as an option on the iPhone? I guess, I don't care because I won't use it, but I could see other using it. In the long term, I would rather the world switch to HTML5 due to it's open standard and not tied to any one company.

Again, those are my opinions and may not fit everyone's needs but we'll see what time brings.

 

[Moyank24]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

The fact that you think they are abusing customers yet continue to give them your money is hysterical to me.

Stop giving them your money. That will be louder than anything you can write in a blog named applesucks.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but to register
on a forum just to argue with people seems a little over dramatic and attention-seeking.

Well I do not anymore! I did because I was stupid enough to give it a try and got locked in a 2 years contract, losing my phone is the middle of it and having to buy a new one therefor my iPhone 4.

HOWEVER, I just changed my credit card and refuse to provide my new number to iTunes because I will not be giving Apple one more dime. Guess what happened? I cannot install any free application AND I cannot update my existing applications neither! Yes you heard it, I cannot update application I bought (with money), and I cannot install free applications on a phone I paid $600 for.

Thanks god I did not buy iPad, because this is what I am getting:

BlackBerry PlayBook and iPad Comparison: Web Fidelity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s72rGDUn2uo

And my next phone will be an Android, hopefully by the time I need to change it someone will have come up with a product that looks and feels even better than iPhone.

PS: do not give me the BS about PlayBook battery, I am close to the source and I can guarantee you that they are lies spread by Apple PR office!! PlayBook battery is a new technology no one even saw yet, pre release ws not including that new battery.

Well than I can only wish you good luck. I truly hope the grass is greener for you.

 

[Mliii]

Just make my stuff work. Just don't crash. Just don't eat battery life. Just don't fence me off from portions of the internet.

Yes, isn´t that what everyone wants? But our stuff just DOESN´T WORK. Thanks to Apple not giving us the Flash option.

And I'm agreeing with you about this part! I AM criticizing Apple for walling me off from portions of the internet. I DO think an optimized version of Flash designed for the iPhone should be an option unless and until something better comes along.
But, I'm ALSO criticizing Adobe and Flash because it still remains the largest single source of crashes on my Mac. And don't just hide behind the argument that it's Apple's fault- if Adobe issues a Mac version of Flash, it should work on the Mac! Just make it work!
(I think I may have to change my signature to that!)

 

[flexengineer]

Now you are just making stuff up. I never said anything of the sort.

You mean like the fact that, after going on and on about Flash security, Apple is not going to have major security issue itself this year?

Maybe you know better than the experts:

http://www.itchannelplanet.com/secu...s+Most+Vulnerable+to+Security+Threats+in+2011

NOTE: I am sorry BaldiMac, I misunderstood your answer, I thought you were saying Apple's privacy abuse were made up. I do not know how to delete this reply so I edited it instead Sorry again!

 

[BobHail]

And I'm agreeing with you about this part! I AM criticizing Apple for walling me off from portions of the internet.

Good.

I DO think an optimized version of Flash designed for the iPhone should be an option unless and until something better comes along.
But, I'm ALSO criticizing Adobe and Flash because it still remains the largest single source of crashes on my Mac. And don't just hide behind the argument that it's Apple's fault- if Adobe issues a Mac version of Flash, it should work on the Mac! Just make it work!
(I think I may have to change my signature to that!)

I don´t really care Flash for my iPhone, ´cause it´s a very small yet very mobile device (I would like the option though), unlike iPad, which is mobile sure, but definitely NOT THAT mobile.

For the size of the iPad and processor power it could have (MBA) it should have Flash, at least DEFINITELY offer the option!

Otherwise it´s just massive FAILURE by Apple and they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[jzuena]

Well I do not anymore! I did because I was stupid enough to give it a try and got locked in a 2 years contract, losing my phone is the middle of it and having to buy a new one therefor my iPhone 4.

If you lost your phone, why didn't you take that opportunity to just buy an Android phone on your current carrier? Your 2 year contract doesn't require you to spend the entire time with an iPhone.

HOWEVER, I just changed my credit card and refuse to provide my new number to iTunes because I will not be giving Apple one more dime. Guess what happened? I cannot install any free application AND I cannot update my existing applications neither! Yes you heard it, I cannot update application I bought (with money), and I cannot install free applications on a phone I paid $600 for.

Now I have to call BS. I don't have any credit card info on file within iTunes and can still install free apps and still get updates to the paid ones I have.

Thanks god I did not buy iPad, because this is what I am getting:

BlackBerry PlayBook and iPad Comparison: Web Fidelity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s72rGDUn2uo

And my next phone will be an Android, hopefully by the time I need to change it someone will have come up with a product that looks and feels even better than iPhone.

PS: do not give me the BS about PlayBook battery, I am close to the source and I can guarantee you that they are lies spread by Apple PR office!! PlayBook battery is a new technology no one even saw yet, pre release ws not including that new battery.

You are FINALLY doing what numerous posters suggested for seven pages of this thread and voting with your wallet.

 

[Moyank24]

You mean like the fact that, after going on and on about Flash security, Apple is not going to have major security issue itself this year?

Maybe you know better than the experts:

http://www.itchannelplanet.com/secu...s+Most+Vulnerable+to+Security+Threats+in+2011

NOTE: I am sorry BaldiMac, I misunderstood your answer, I thought you were saying Apple's privacy abuse were made up. I do not know how to delete this reply so I edited it instead Sorry again!

Don't you think that McAfee article is a bit self serving? After all they would stand to benefit greatly if Apple had a major security issue. And there is a matter of McAfee saying the same thing every year.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but I would take whatever McAfee says with a grain of salt.

 

[BaldiMac]

You mean like the fact that, after going on and on about Flash security, Apple is not going to have major security issue itself this year?

Maybe you know better than the experts:

http://www.itchannelplanet.com/secu...s+Most+Vulnerable+to+Security+Threats+in+2011

NOTE: I am sorry BaldiMac, I misunderstood your answer, I thought you were saying Apple's privacy abuse were made up. I do not know how to delete this reply so I edited it instead Sorry again!

I never said anything about Flash security either.

EDIT: Just saw your note.

 

[flexengineer]

Don't you think that McAfee article is a bit self serving? After all they would stand to benefit greatly if Apple had a major security issue. And there is a matter of McAfee saying the same thing every year.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but I would take whatever McAfee says with a grain of salt.

So basically you believe a company such as McAfee would lose its credibility by spreading lies to its consumers including businesses and enterprises?

That claim would mean that if this year Apple does not have any security issue, everyone will remember what MacAfee said because they were the first and will backslash.

So basically here we are entertaining the idea that MacAfee is too stupid of a company with a too stupid executive team and communication team to avoid doing something like this?

What would be the reward compare to the risk?

I duno man!

 

[goosnarrggh]

So? I never claimed the end to advertising. The average user doesn't block Flash ads. Or any other ads for that matter.

All I was pointing out was that, in the future, those people that want to block ads will have more control with HTML5 ads than they do with equivalent Flash ads today.

And there is no reason the settings would have to be obscure or site by site. It could be as easy as enabling Adblock is today.

But it would leave people in the exact same promromised position that they're in today -- adblocker plugins, fiddling with settings.

Look, you have advocated the point that the lack of Flash on iOS gives you a more pleasant browsing experience because none of the content you really care about is in the Flash format... So the important data on a webpage is still visible, the crappy Flash stuff isn't any you don't care about any potential overlap. Your current pleasant browsing experience is a happy coincidence, nothing more or less.


THIS STATUS QUO CAN ONLY BE PRESERVED IF ALL THE IRRELEVANT MATERIAL CONTINUES TO BE POSTED IN FLASH, AND ALL THE IMPORTANT MATERIAL CONTINUES TO BE POSTED IN HTML5.

Contrast this to the pre-HTML5 era, where in order to work with any richly interactive / multimedia content you were actually interested in, you had to deal with the inconvenience of shutting off Flash all the time, and then selectively turning Flash on as you discovered content you were actually interested in.

After Flash goes away, and HTML5 becomes the dominant means to deliver annoying, CPU-hogging, battery-sucking advertising, you'll have no choice but to go back to the annoying old method of blocking all rich multimedia and interactive HTML5 content, and then selectively turning some of it back on as you discover you need it to access your intended media.

You'd better hope you have finer-grained control than simply turning on and off the general class of "canvas" tags or "video" tags for a given webpage. Otherwise, you'll just end up turning the annoying ads back on at the same time as you turn on the desired content.

 

[flexengineer]

If you lost your phone, why didn't you take that opportunity to just buy an Android phone on your current carrier? Your 2 year contract doesn't require you to spend the entire time with an iPhone.

Now I have to call BS. I don't have any credit card info on file within iTunes and can still install free apps and still get updates to the paid ones I have.

You are FINALLY doing what numerous posters suggested for seven pages of this thread and voting with your wallet.

Because at the time Android offering, from a device standpoint, was not as good as Apple so I went for another one but I was insured so I basically just added $50 to get the 4. Now is a different story, 2011 will see some kick ass devices that do not run iOS.

My bad on the iTunes, just realized now that I have an outstanding bill for $0.99 and my old credit card does not work anymore so I HAVE to provide iTunes with my new credit card number just to pay those 0.99c in order to be able to basically use my phone.

What that also mean is, and this is important guys, if you ever get broke and you Apple can't charge an outstanding bill even for 10 cents then:

1/ you will never be able to update your apps, even those you fully paid for, as long as you are broke.

2/ you will never be able to install free apps for as as long as you are broke.

I just cannot wait for the result of the FTC investigation! Watch your stock guys and buy some put, just saying.

 

[rivageek]

I personally don't care for flash in my web browser and haven't missed having flash on the iphone/ipad.

 

[BaldiMac]

But it would leave people in the exact same promromised position that they're in today -- adblocker plugins, fiddling with settings.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I'm not saying there is going to be an ad-free utopia. All I'm saying is that we will have more control over ads made with HTML5 related technologies than we do with the same ad made with Flash. First and foremost for me, no LSOs stored outside the control of the browser.

Look, you have advocated the point that the lack of Flash on iOS gives you a more pleasant browsing experience because none of the content you really care about is in the Flash format... So the important data on a webpage is still visible, the crappy Flash stuff isn't any you don't care about any potential overlap. Your current pleasant browsing experience is a happy coincidence, nothing more or less.

You are making the assumption that I only filter websites based on Flash today. That's not true. I also filter scripts and images and video. Ad content is served by ad servers whether is video, or scripts or images or Flash. That is how it is filtered, not by coincidence.

THIS STATUS QUO CAN ONLY BE PRESERVED IF ALL THE IRRELEVANT MATERIAL CONTINUES TO BE POSTED IN FLASH, AND ALL THE IMPORTANT MATERIAL CONTINUES TO BE POSTED IN HTML5.

First, I'm not interested in maintaining the status quo. I'm looking for improvement. Second, and again, blocking ads isn't just about blocking content types, it's about blocking content sources.

Contrast this to the pre-HTML5 era, where in order to work with any richly interactive / multimedia content you were actually interested in, you had to deal with the inconvenience of shutting off Flash all the time, and then selectively turning Flash on as you discovered content you were actually interested in.

After Flash goes away, and HTML5 becomes the dominant means to deliver annoying, CPU-hogging, battery-sucking advertising, you'll have no choice but to go back to the annoying old method of blocking all rich multimedia and interactive HTML5 content, and then selectively turning some of it back on as you discover you need it to access your intended media.

As I described above, that is not true.

You'd better hope you have finer-grained control than simply turning on and off the general class of "canvas" tags or "video" tags for a given webpage. Otherwise, you'll just end up turning the annoying ads back on at the same time as you turn on the desired content.

No need to hope. That control exists today. And additional controls can be developed. If the browser that I choose doesn't offer the control I want either natively or through extensions, I can get something else.

 

[flexengineer]

But it would leave people in the exact same promromised position that they're in today -- adblocker plugins, fiddling with settings.

Look, you have advocated the point that the lack of Flash on iOS gives you a more pleasant browsing experience because none of the content you really care about is in the Flash format... So the important data on a webpage is still visible, the crappy Flash stuff isn't any you don't care about any potential overlap. Your current pleasant browsing experience is a happy coincidence, nothing more or less.


THIS STATUS QUO CAN ONLY BE PRESERVED IF ALL THE IRRELEVANT MATERIAL CONTINUES TO BE POSTED IN FLASH, AND ALL THE IMPORTANT MATERIAL CONTINUES TO BE POSTED IN HTML5.

Contrast this to the pre-HTML5 era, where in order to work with any richly interactive / multimedia content you were actually interested in, you had to deal with the inconvenience of shutting off Flash all the time, and then selectively turning Flash on as you discovered content you were actually interested in.

After Flash goes away, and HTML5 becomes the dominant means to deliver annoying, CPU-hogging, battery-sucking advertising, you'll have no choice but to go back to the annoying old method of blocking all rich multimedia and interactive HTML5 content, and then selectively turning some of it back on as you discover you need it to access your intended media.

You'd better hope you have finer-grained control than simply turning on and off the general class of "canvas" tags or "video" tags for a given webpage. Otherwise, you'll just end up turning the annoying ads back on at the same time as you turn on the desired content.

You guys realize that the large majority of computer users would have mo idea what you are talking about with plug-ins and flash killers and ad killers and turning on and off, right?

This is what happens on iPad when you dont have Flash, either because you turned it off or because the guy you give your bucks to decided you should not have it, compared side by side with a product that support Flash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s72rGDUn2uo

So basically if you want a boring bare bone web or you are 50 yo and use it to read The Wall Street Journal, then you get the iPad. Oh wait, bad example, the Wall Street Journal reader is in Flash, oops.

If you want the full, rich experience web with no compromise then you get products that support Flash and if the devices is not good enough for it you demand a better battery or better CPU and better whatever it takes. They are the big shot corporations, we are users. They have to deliver, we do not have to compromise.

http://applesucks.squarespace.com/

I couldn't put those points any better and like I said in my previous post Apple fanboys that refuse to look past Steve Jobs massive balls and ego, your life on the IPhone will progressively get worse and worse and I'm not against you buying apples etc I would not wish any harm to any company that is providing jobs etc.

But if you are happy for Apple to dictate your lives then feel free, tomorrow some new tech will come out that steps on apples toes and they would probably deny you access to that too, me I want to see everything, use everything and enjoy the massive amount of content out there that is only going to get bigger and bigger.

You feel free to wait until about 2022 when it's becomes W3C and companies actually take it seriously by then the web will be so flooded with Flex/Flash/AIR Mobile you wont even need a browser lol.

Banking: Flex
Gaming: Flex/Flash
3D: Flash
Interactivity: Flash
Quality: Flex/Flash
Proper programming language: (Cheaper/Faster/Better/Re-usable) Flex

Many car sites, bike sites etc are moving to Flex. VW, Fiat etc so many on a daily basis starting up new projects all in Flash and you wont get to enjoy it or any new tech that comes out that takes control away from Steve Jobs.

It's getting faster and better every month and everyone except Apple is jumping on the bandwagon, I for one hope they get taught a lesson some time in the near future and change their ways because I do like their products but like many others I too am shifting to greener pastures where I can do more of what I want.

Then again there are probably more normal people in this world than there are geeks or are there really? Looking at how fast Android is growing.

Very well said, this thread needed a bit more sense.

 

[scaredpoet]

So basically you believe a company such as McAfee would lose its credibility by spreading lies to its consumers including businesses and enterprises?

If enough people are invested in a lie, then they'll certainly look the other way. IT security professionals, and McAfee, are heavily invested in computer users' having fear, uncertainty and doubt about the security of their chosen platform. They make money off of that fear, because the message they project is that you are not safe unless you've installed McAfee's bloatware. The bottom line: If you want to feel safe, you don't have a choice. How ironic is that?

Likewise, certain developers with vested interests in certain software development platforms have a need to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt about whether certain devices without those platforms will continue to succeed, even when real-world sales figures and profits strongly suggest otherwise. If that means they need to dress it up as flaying the flag of "choice" then so be it.

But, people already have a choice, don't they? They can get an Android device. People don't need to buy iPhones. They buy them because they want to.

Unless of course, your reasoning is that the Android platform is somehow inferior to iOS...

And Apple is definitely losing a cut, because of their "war against Flash". Huge amount of people are rejecting Apple´s iToys and buying something else, because of this absurdity.

And if that's important to those people, then that's exactly what they should do. Good for them!

Unfortunately for you, it would appear that not enough of them agree with you on this. Maybe people are rejecting "iToys" as you call them due to a lack of Flash, but there's still plenty more who don't seem to have a problem with it. If by your figures, Apple can only succeed if 100% of the market buys iOS, and Apple commands a monopoly on the mobile device market, then Android hasn't exactly succeeded by the same yardstick either, nor will they for the foreseeable future.

 

[iceterminal]

I figure that everyone has their own opinion. Some like what others do not.
Me? I'd rather not have old, out of date, resource hogging, proprietary, closed source software on my mobile device.
But thats me. Some people want to play their little games on a mobile phone. Fine, go for it.
Maybe I'm just out of touch or I'm a more mature adult. Either way, who cares?

But I do have to laugh at the people that go as far as making a blog or website to denounce something that have a complete choice in not buying or using.
"I have a site that says Company XYZ sucks!"
Uh, how about you just not use any product from the company. Or are you just one of those people that aren't happy unless you're complaining about something?
Again, who cares?
Me? If there is a product or company I don't like...I don't give them my business. Yes, I know...its a logical thing. But again, thats just me.

 

[cvd]

Thread summary: 15-year-olds who want Flash games, people who want mobile access to porn (seriously?), and one Flash engineer clamor about how great Flash is while other users tell them that it isn't necessary and that the entire reason HTML5 is growing at its current pace is because of iOS making it a necessity.

I hope we can come back to this thread in January of 2012 so the people in favor of Flash can see how absolutely wrong they are about all of it.

 

[flash144]

There are bigger forces and interests at play than you can imagine, but it does not matter anymore because Flash is going to work beautifully one 350,000,000 smart phones by 2012. What do you think will be Apple's consumers reaction when they are going to see Flash work fine ion everyone's hands but theirs? That's right, good bye Apple dominance, backs to where it belongs, 10% market share and an insignificant community of 100,000 developers (we are 3,000,000 Flash developers). Deja vu? It's called Macintosh. Apple is a maker of fancy devices for rich people, their temporary market dominance on the mobile market was just because they were first to market, easy to dominate when you are the only product on the shelves.

Let's see how Apple and Flash are going to do this year...

pretty sure thats where it came from.....

 

[err404]

You mean like the fact that, after going on and on about Flash security, Apple is not going to have major security issue itself this year?

Maybe you know better than the experts:

http://www.itchannelplanet.com/secu...s+Most+Vulnerable+to+Security+Threats+in+2011

Did you read the article, or just google for buzz words? After reading the article, it has a misleading title. It doesn't really talk about Apples or any other platform as being particular vulnerable. Rather it simply claims that iOS along with Android and Social Networking sites will be more heavily targeted for attack in 2011.

This is the same FUD we have been hearing from McAfee and Symantec every year for the last decade. Every year they claim Apple will finally eat crow. Frankly they have cried wolf about Apple far too many times for me to take them seriously.

 

[Moyank24]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

pretty sure thats where it came from.....

Got it. That must be a pretty loose definition of developer! I created a flash animation for a website in 2002. Do I count?

3,000,002

You are officially counted. Now spit out that kool-aid and get back to work!

 

[flexengineer]

I figure that everyone has their own opinion. Some like what others do not.
Me? I'd rather not have old, out of date, resource hogging, proprietary, closed source software on my mobile device.
But thats me. Some people want to play their little games on a mobile phone. Fine, go for it.
Maybe I'm just out of touch or I'm a more mature adult. Either way, who cares?

But I do have to laugh at the people that go as far as making a blog or website to denounce something that have a complete choice in not buying or using.
"I have a site that says Company XYZ sucks!"
Uh, how about you just not use any product from the company. Or are you just one of those people that aren't happy unless you're complaining about something?
Again, who cares?
Me? If there is a product or company I don't like...I don't give them my business. Yes, I know...its a logical thing. But again, thats just me.

Joke aside, with all due respect I think you are missing the point. Steve Jobs made it a personal mission to kill us Flash developers the same way he publicly said that Apple has a mission to keep porn out of iPhone.

So basically we have the CEO of an overgrown company with an overgrown ego with a computer market share of 10% that is trying to kill 3,000,000 of us by abusing market dominance on mobile and propaganda.

I am not going to repeat again, I said it all on my blog.

If Steve Jobs does not like Flash and can decide for its customers that they can't have it fine, but spreading lies to take the competition out? Not over my dead body.

In the country I am coming from, when we have a problem with the King abusing its power and dominance we take it down and chop his head off. Clean and simple.

 

[CylonGlitch]

In the country I am coming from, when we have a problem with the King abusing its power and dominance we take it down and chop his head off. Clean and simple.

FYI Obama isn't King just yet. . . give it time though.

 

[BaldiMac]

First my blog is not called XYZ, it is called http://applesucks.squarespace.com

Joke aside, with all due respect I think you are missing the point. Steve Jobs made it a personal mission to kill us Flash developers the same way he publicly said that Apple has a mission to keep porn out of iPhone.

So basically we have the CEO of an overgrown company with an overgrown ego with a computer market share of 10% that is trying to kill 3,000,000 of us by abusing market dominance on mobile and propaganda.

I am not going to repeat again, I said it all on my blog.

If Steve Jobs does not like Flash and can decide for its customers that they can't have it fine, but spreading lies to take the competition out? Not over my dead body.

In the country I am coming from, when we have a problem with the King abusing its power and dominance we take it down and chop his head off. Clean and simple.

First, Apple isn't dominating any applicable market.

Second, what lies is Apple spreading "to take the competition out?"