Horizontal Lines in New Powerbooks

[Spectrum]

eh? In the images, or just the thumbnails?

Oh great. After looking at the yellow balls in those pictures I am now seeing vertical lines!! Seriously.

 

[BENJMNS]

FYI, though the black horizontal lines do not exist on the 17" hi-res units, the diagonal moving scan lines do... but much less noticeable.

 

[Arcus]

eh? In the images, or just the thumbnails?

Im looking at the thumbnails and I can see the misaligned pixes and now im noticing a 'wave of color' vertically.

 

[Spectrum]

Arcus, you cannot and should not judge most images by their thumbnails. High resolution detail (the photographed pixels) will become aberrantly displayed as thick and thin lines or as waves (the effect is similar to moire on a digital camera: the hires detail of the image itself exceeds the resolution of the display/recording medium).

Just click on the images and they open in a new window in Safari at 100% size: no artifacts (other than the photographed ones 😉 ).

Im looking at the thumbnails and I can see the misaligned pixes and now im noticing a 'wave of color' vertically.

 

[Wombert]

Made up some gradients in illustrator. Upper is a radial greyscale, lower is a linear horizontal gradient from pure blue (0,0,255) to pure red (255,0,0).

First shot is of top left of screen (screen capture of photo opened at 50% size in Preview)

Second shot is of top centre of screen (screen capture of photo opened at 50% size in Preview)

Shot with D70 SLR w/ Sigma 24mm Macro lens. ISO400, f/1.8, 1/500th sec.

Contrary to my previous post, it appears to me that the horizontal lines MAY be caused by the inversion scheme, since the inversion pattern is more evident in mid tones than full colours. It is also apparent in the greyscale gradient (weakly) in the topCentre shot.

However, in another test, I found it impossible to produce the inversion pattern in photos of the top centre of the screen using the Apple Aqua desktop as a subject, even at shutter speeds up to 1/8000th second, so I'm not sure what is going on. Different colours/tones seem to display the inversion pattern to different extents, yet all mid-tone colours display the horizontal pixel lines...

Disclaimer: All of this may be perfectly normal behaviour of LCDs. I am no electronic engineer.

What the gradient pics of the top centre do show is how the horizontal lines become most evident in midtones, and disappear as colours become saturated.

N.B. The inversion scheme pattern disappears in the topleft shots as shutter speed slows. By <1/50th second, the pattern is not observed in most photos. As expected I guess if the pixels invert faster than this.

Very good work, Spectrum! The grayscale gradients also show clearly how much this panel dithers. Clearly a case of a cheap, made in China 220-thousand-color-panel. In a 2000$ laptop. Steve deserves a big kick in the whereever for this.

 

[Spectrum]

Wombert - much as I'd like to believe your assumption that this is a cheap 6bit panel (262,144 colours dithered up to 16._2_ million) I'm still not 100%sure...

Reading this: http://www.behardware.com/articles/498-8/lcd-screens-in-a-nutshell.html

certainly explains the mechanism - and it is "convenient" that Apple only refers in its specs to "millions of colours".

Wait! on the current PB spec page - it doesn't even specify it as being "millions"!

http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html

whereas the similar imac page does:

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

(actually, deeper in the PB page, it does list each PB as having "millions": http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index15.html )

notably though, the ACD displays get the "16.7 million" designation:

http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html

so.. I'm not sure. If it is a 6bit display, it certainly does not belong in a $2000+ dollar laptop launched on the eve of a _photo_Expo_

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0510/05101902appleaperture.asp

ho hum.

Very good work, Spectrum! The grayscale gradients also show clearly how much this panel dithers. Clearly a case of a cheap, made in China 220-thousand-color-panel. In a 2000$ laptop. Steve deserves a big kick in the whereever for this.

 

[ybakos]

Just Sent in my PB for Service

I just sent my PB back to AppleCare, will post with an update on what I get back.

 

[MRU]

Got my PB in Nov 18th.... I noticed the lines, they were not iritating me as umch when I first got it, but after a few weeks - my god they were a pain...

Anyway I rang apple begining of the new year and described the problem, and they said I couldn't return the mac for a replacement because it was over 16 days, but I could get it repaired in an Apple Repair Center...

I rang the repair center and they said they had not heard of the problem?? We are they mars? and could'nt guarantee a perfect screen... mmmmm

So I told them I'll hold on for a while longer - till 10.4.4 comes out at least.



Anyway in the mean time my Battery became problematic, one minute it would report full charged and hang at 99% - but reports on 87% of battery life left after 2 months??? 😕 The next it would shut down whilst on the battery without warning and when rebooted would report 47% original battery life... Irksome is not the word. So I rang apple aftercare support and reported that the battery was playing up and asked if they would replace the battery and collect the troublesome one... They put me through to Tech Support in India so I could get a case ID.. After 50 minutes of re-explaining the problem they gave me a case ID.

Rang back aftercare support in Ireland, they now had the case ID and to my surprise they would just replace the entire powerbook rather than just the battery....

Why?? I don't know... Seems strange that the display which is a bigger problem is deemed to be repairable but a battery which is easily replaceble is deemed enough to warrant an entire replacement.. My PB is custom order too....??

Hopefully when it returns the new machine will have a perfect screen... But I wont hold my breath 🙄

 

[BENJMNS]

the hi-res 15 issue is so very universal... it's going to take apple a huge financial commitment which will delay any sort of response, but who knows.

it IS an issue. to anyone who thinks they have a "perfect" 15" screen... dude it doesn't exist in the hi-res world.

with that said, would i rather have a lower res "perfect" screen than the lines hi-res screen. Hell no. i'd much rather go with the latter.

 

[finchwizard]

Well, I first got my 15" Powerbook to find that it had the lines, and man were they bad, very irritating, all these people saying you had to be about 1" away from the screen before you noticed.

I could be arms length and see the lines, it was a BTO laptop so I sent it back, and they actually replaced the entire laptop.

I got this one back the other day, and while it still has lines, they are no where near as bad.

They've gotten another complaint to say this one has the lines as well.

I've seen on the Apple Discussion forums that one of the guys says Apple US have acknowledged there to be a problem and are releasing a statement about it soon, not sure how that's going.

This line situation is really unacceptable, I'll let you know what happens after this next encounter, doesn't worry me, it will keep going back until I get a good one, either that or get my money refunded =)

 

[generik]

Very good work, Spectrum! The grayscale gradients also show clearly how much this panel dithers. Clearly a case of a cheap, made in China 220-thousand-color-panel. In a 2000$ laptop. Steve deserves a big kick in the whereever for this.

Using a $75 processor. In a marketplace where people are putting $250 processors into $900 machines.

Why can they do that, BECAUSE THEY CAN. People, you should start voting with your wallets if you want to save Apple.

 

[Sic]

Anyway in the mean time my Battery became problematic, one minute it would report full charged and hang at 99%

my battery does that. i charge it, it goes to 100%, then by the morning it's at 99%, and if i leave it at home, it drops to 98%...havent left it any longer than that before, i just discharge the battery and it goes back to 100% again. saying that, it does seem to give me 3 hours roaming time on 99% charge so i'm not too bothered.

In a marketplace where people are putting $250 processors into $900 machines.

which people?

 

[Sic]

hahaha, weird double post

 

[luke23]

This line situation is really unacceptable, I'll let you know what happens after this next encounter, doesn't worry me, it will keep going back until I get a good one, either that or get my money refunded =)

Totally agree. I hope they soon update the Apple web site. This will show a better image from a company supoused it has a good one. I am dissapointed with Apple in the hardware topic (i had to replace the battery too, dispite they do it fast at least) but very happy with the software: specially with the OS.

 

[sdurkin]

Is this image a valid Test of your display?

Here is a pic of it. It is, of course, hard to capture on a camera but it gives you an idea. Also, brightness is up full blast in this picture and notice how dim the screen seems to be.

I suggest if the posted image (as seen in its original form on the PB LCD) is of insufficient resolution then it may be other than a display issue - it could be an image interpolation issue or some artifact related therein. I see this all the time using 8 bit resolution images. Only the best cameras output even 12 bit resolution, so anything else is interpolation. A scanned image or an image converted from an 8 bit original still has the issue We are looking at an image with subtle variation in blues for example, wherein interpolation may cause this, though I am not sure how it would manifest as lines of vaiation here.

I am not saying that the issue is not there, just suggesting other tests to verify it. Solid colors will demand no interpolation. I suggest you use a very high resolution (pixels per inch) solid color to see if the lines occur. Try a few, being sure the resolution of the image file is sufficient to fill all pixels on your LCD that the image occupies.

I do not have the recent very of the PB and so cannot make that test myself, of course.

 

[buttercup]

New MacBook screens

Anyone find it interesting that they are using 15.4" screen and a more native resolution?

At least they acknowledge their quality problem.

Do you think that ithis is positive or negative news for those afflicted with the lines?

 

[DIXIE]

Small window of opportunity

Anyone find it interesting that they are using 15.4" screen and a more native resolution?

At least they acknowledge their quality problem.

Do you think that ithis is positive or negative news for those afflicted with the lines?

Two months ago I posted the belief that 1440x960 (instead of 1440x900) was the most likely problem with the screens. In spite of that, some poor soul on another thread/forum is currently bemoaning the LOSS OF PIXELS! 😱

Somehow many people think that more of everything and anything is better .... not true!

Getting back to your question .... between now and February it is possible that Apple (in their customary stealth manner) MIGHT quietly install the revised 15" LCD on new orders for the still available 15"PPC PB from the Apple Online Store.

If I had a "line" 15"PB and still in the exchange time frame or not, I would contact Apple Customer Service, NOT Apple Care, and TRY to negotiate a replacement 1440x900 screen. The cat is out of the bag so you might have a better chance now. 😉

They can't shoot you for asking! 🙂

DIXIE
😀

 

[DIXIE]

Small window of opportunity

Anyone find it interesting that they are using 15.4" screen and a more native resolution?

At least they acknowledge their quality problem.

Do you think that ithis is positive or negative news for those afflicted with the lines?

Two months ago I posted the belief that 1440x960 (instead of 1440x900) was the most likely problem with the screens. In spite of that, some poor soul on another thread/forum is currently bemoaning the LOSS OF PIXELS! 😱

Somehow many people think that more of everything and anything is better .... not true!

Getting back to your question .... between now and February it is possible that Apple (in their customary stealth manner) MIGHT quietly install the revised 15" LCD on new orders for the still available 15"PPC PB from the Apple Online Store.

If I had a "line" 15"PB and still in the exchange time frame or not, I would contact Apple Customer Service, NOT Apple Care, and TRY to negotiate a replacement 1440x900 screen. The cat is out of the bag so you might have a better chance now. 😉

They can't shoot you for asking! 🙂

DIXIE
😀

 

[Wombert]

Getting back to your question .... between now and February it is possible that Apple (in their customary stealth manner) MIGHT quietly install the revised 15" LCD on new orders for the still available 15"PPC PB from the Apple Online Store.

If I had a "line" 15"PB and still in the exchange time frame or not, I would contact Apple Customer Service, NOT Apple Care, and TRY to negotiate a replacement 1440x900 screen. The cat is out of the bag so you might have a better chance now. 😉

No way, because the new display is larger and won't fit.

 

[bug]

Anyone find it interesting that they are using 15.4" screen and a more native resolution?

I was thinking the exact same thing - wish there was a way to know when exactly they decided what screen to use on that macbook!

 

[DIXIE]

Outside dimensions??

No way, because the new display is larger and won't fit.

Yes, the illustrated diagonal is 15.4" on the new LCD and 15.2" on the "line" LCD.

However, the overall dimensions look the same (except the thickness). I'll have to check the width & length tech specs, but if they are the same, is it possible the screen frame was narrowed to gain space?

Anyway, if the new screen is too large, I would still call Apple Customer Service and plead, beg, or grovel for an exchange! 🙄

Who knows, Apple might take pity on the truly desperate!! 😉

DIXIE
😀 😀

 

[Wombert]

Yes, the illustrated diagonal is 15.4" on the new LCD and 15.2" on the "line" LCD.

However, the overall dimensions look the same (except the thickness). I'll have to check the width & length tech specs, but if they are the same, is it possible the screen frame was narrowed to gain space?

Anyway, if the new screen is too large, I would still call Apple Customer Service and plead, beg, or grovel for an exchange! 🙄

Who knows, Apple might take pity on the truly desperate!! 😉

DIXIE
😀 😀

The new case is larger, but thinner.

 

[netb0y]

Apple Releases Mac OS X 10.4.4

Anyone try the 10.4.4 update yet?
https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110180240.shtml

 

[Wombert]

Anyone try the 10.4.4 update yet?
https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110180240.shtml

Yep, lines still there

 

[MRU]

Yep, lines still there

Final nail in coffin.. They are not going to do anything with these machines...

I'm glad now they decided to replace mine, when it arrives it will be shipped back unopened for a refund, and I now to choose macbookpro or intel imac...