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Horizontal Lines in New Powerbooks
- Thread starter VisualForces
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Spectrum said:
Im looking at the thumbnails and I can see the misaligned pixes and now im noticing a 'wave of color' vertically.
Arcus, you cannot and should not judge most images by their thumbnails. High resolution detail (the photographed pixels) will become aberrantly displayed as thick and thin lines or as waves (the effect is similar to moire on a digital camera: the hires detail of the image itself exceeds the resolution of the display/recording medium).
Just click on the images and they open in a new window in Safari at 100% size: no artifacts (other than the photographed ones
).
Just click on the images and they open in a new window in Safari at 100% size: no artifacts (other than the photographed ones
).Arcus said:
Spectrum said:
Very good work, Spectrum! The grayscale gradients also show clearly how much this panel dithers. Clearly a case of a cheap, made in China 220-thousand-color-panel. In a 2000$ laptop. Steve deserves a big kick in the whereever for this.
Wombert - much as I'd like to believe your assumption that this is a cheap 6bit panel (262,144 colours dithered up to 16._2_ million) I'm still not 100%sure...
Reading this: http://www.behardware.com/articles/498-8/lcd-screens-in-a-nutshell.html
certainly explains the mechanism - and it is "convenient" that Apple only refers in its specs to "millions of colours".
Wait! on the current PB spec page - it doesn't even specify it as being "millions"!
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html
whereas the similar imac page does:
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html
(actually, deeper in the PB page, it does list each PB as having "millions": http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index15.html )
notably though, the ACD displays get the "16.7 million" designation:
http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html
so.. I'm not sure. If it is a 6bit display, it certainly does not belong in a $2000+ dollar laptop launched on the eve of a _photo_Expo_
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0510/05101902appleaperture.asp
ho hum.
Reading this: http://www.behardware.com/articles/498-8/lcd-screens-in-a-nutshell.html
certainly explains the mechanism - and it is "convenient" that Apple only refers in its specs to "millions of colours".
Wait! on the current PB spec page - it doesn't even specify it as being "millions"!
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html
whereas the similar imac page does:
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html
(actually, deeper in the PB page, it does list each PB as having "millions": http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index15.html )
notably though, the ACD displays get the "16.7 million" designation:
http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html
so.. I'm not sure. If it is a 6bit display, it certainly does not belong in a $2000+ dollar laptop launched on the eve of a _photo_Expo_
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0510/05101902appleaperture.asp
ho hum.
Wombert said:
Got my PB in Nov 18th.... I noticed the lines, they were not iritating me as umch when I first got it, but after a few weeks - my god they were a pain...
Anyway I rang apple begining of the new year and described the problem, and they said I couldn't return the mac for a replacement because it was over 16 days, but I could get it repaired in an Apple Repair Center...
I rang the repair center and they said they had not heard of the problem?? We are they mars? and could'nt guarantee a perfect screen... mmmmm
So I told them I'll hold on for a while longer - till 10.4.4 comes out at least.
Anyway in the mean time my Battery became problematic, one minute it would report full charged and hang at 99% - but reports on 87% of battery life left after 2 months??? The next it would shut down whilst on the battery without warning and when rebooted would report 47% original battery life... Irksome is not the word. So I rang apple aftercare support and reported that the battery was playing up and asked if they would replace the battery and collect the troublesome one... They put me through to Tech Support in India so I could get a case ID.. After 50 minutes of re-explaining the problem they gave me a case ID.
Rang back aftercare support in Ireland, they now had the case ID and to my surprise they would just replace the entire powerbook rather than just the battery....
Why?? I don't know... Seems strange that the display which is a bigger problem is deemed to be repairable but a battery which is easily replaceble is deemed enough to warrant an entire replacement.. My PB is custom order too....??
Hopefully when it returns the new machine will have a perfect screen... But I wont hold my breath
Anyway I rang apple begining of the new year and described the problem, and they said I couldn't return the mac for a replacement because it was over 16 days, but I could get it repaired in an Apple Repair Center...
I rang the repair center and they said they had not heard of the problem?? We are they mars? and could'nt guarantee a perfect screen... mmmmm
So I told them I'll hold on for a while longer - till 10.4.4 comes out at least.
Anyway in the mean time my Battery became problematic, one minute it would report full charged and hang at 99% - but reports on 87% of battery life left after 2 months???
The next it would shut down whilst on the battery without warning and when rebooted would report 47% original battery life... Irksome is not the word. So I rang apple aftercare support and reported that the battery was playing up and asked if they would replace the battery and collect the troublesome one... They put me through to Tech Support in India so I could get a case ID.. After 50 minutes of re-explaining the problem they gave me a case ID.Rang back aftercare support in Ireland, they now had the case ID and to my surprise they would just replace the entire powerbook rather than just the battery....
Why?? I don't know... Seems strange that the display which is a bigger problem is deemed to be repairable but a battery which is easily replaceble is deemed enough to warrant an entire replacement.. My PB is custom order too....??
Hopefully when it returns the new machine will have a perfect screen... But I wont hold my breath
the hi-res 15 issue is so very universal... it's going to take apple a huge financial commitment which will delay any sort of response, but who knows.
it IS an issue. to anyone who thinks they have a "perfect" 15" screen... dude it doesn't exist in the hi-res world.
with that said, would i rather have a lower res "perfect" screen than the lines hi-res screen. Hell no. i'd much rather go with the latter.
it IS an issue. to anyone who thinks they have a "perfect" 15" screen... dude it doesn't exist in the hi-res world.
with that said, would i rather have a lower res "perfect" screen than the lines hi-res screen. Hell no. i'd much rather go with the latter.
Well, I first got my 15" Powerbook to find that it had the lines, and man were they bad, very irritating, all these people saying you had to be about 1" away from the screen before you noticed.
I could be arms length and see the lines, it was a BTO laptop so I sent it back, and they actually replaced the entire laptop.
I got this one back the other day, and while it still has lines, they are no where near as bad.
They've gotten another complaint to say this one has the lines as well.
I've seen on the Apple Discussion forums that one of the guys says Apple US have acknowledged there to be a problem and are releasing a statement about it soon, not sure how that's going.
This line situation is really unacceptable, I'll let you know what happens after this next encounter, doesn't worry me, it will keep going back until I get a good one, either that or get my money refunded =)
I could be arms length and see the lines, it was a BTO laptop so I sent it back, and they actually replaced the entire laptop.
I got this one back the other day, and while it still has lines, they are no where near as bad.
They've gotten another complaint to say this one has the lines as well.
I've seen on the Apple Discussion forums that one of the guys says Apple US have acknowledged there to be a problem and are releasing a statement about it soon, not sure how that's going.
This line situation is really unacceptable, I'll let you know what happens after this next encounter, doesn't worry me, it will keep going back until I get a good one, either that or get my money refunded =)
MacRumorUser said:
my battery does that. i charge it, it goes to 100%, then by the morning it's at 99%, and if i leave it at home, it drops to 98%...havent left it any longer than that before, i just discharge the battery and it goes back to 100% again. saying that, it does seem to give me 3 hours roaming time on 99% charge so i'm not too bothered.
generik said:
which people?
Totally agree. I hope they soon update the Apple web site. This will show a better image from a company supoused it has a good one. I am dissapointed with Apple in the hardware topic (i had to replace the battery too, dispite they do it fast at least) but very happy with the software: specially with the OS.finchwizard said:
Is this image a valid Test of your display?
I suggest if the posted image (as seen in its original form on the PB LCD) is of insufficient resolution then it may be other than a display issue - it could be an image interpolation issue or some artifact related therein. I see this all the time using 8 bit resolution images. Only the best cameras output even 12 bit resolution, so anything else is interpolation. A scanned image or an image converted from an 8 bit original still has the issue We are looking at an image with subtle variation in blues for example, wherein interpolation may cause this, though I am not sure how it would manifest as lines of vaiation here.
I am not saying that the issue is not there, just suggesting other tests to verify it. Solid colors will demand no interpolation. I suggest you use a very high resolution (pixels per inch) solid color to see if the lines occur. Try a few, being sure the resolution of the image file is sufficient to fill all pixels on your LCD that the image occupies.
I do not have the recent very of the PB and so cannot make that test myself, of course.
Chrispy said:
I suggest if the posted image (as seen in its original form on the PB LCD) is of insufficient resolution then it may be other than a display issue - it could be an image interpolation issue or some artifact related therein. I see this all the time using 8 bit resolution images. Only the best cameras output even 12 bit resolution, so anything else is interpolation. A scanned image or an image converted from an 8 bit original still has the issue We are looking at an image with subtle variation in blues for example, wherein interpolation may cause this, though I am not sure how it would manifest as lines of vaiation here.
I am not saying that the issue is not there, just suggesting other tests to verify it. Solid colors will demand no interpolation. I suggest you use a very high resolution (pixels per inch) solid color to see if the lines occur. Try a few, being sure the resolution of the image file is sufficient to fill all pixels on your LCD that the image occupies.
I do not have the recent very of the PB and so cannot make that test myself, of course.
New MacBook screens
Anyone find it interesting that they are using 15.4" screen and a more native resolution?
At least they acknowledge their quality problem.
Do you think that ithis is positive or negative news for those afflicted with the lines?
Anyone find it interesting that they are using 15.4" screen and a more native resolution?
At least they acknowledge their quality problem.
Do you think that ithis is positive or negative news for those afflicted with the lines?
Small window of opportunity
Two months ago I posted the belief that 1440x960 (instead of 1440x900) was the most likely problem with the screens. In spite of that, some poor soul on another thread/forum is currently bemoaning the LOSS OF PIXELS!
Somehow many people think that more of everything and anything is better .... not true!
Getting back to your question .... between now and February it is possible that Apple (in their customary stealth manner) MIGHT quietly install the revised 15" LCD on new orders for the still available 15"PPC PB from the Apple Online Store.
If I had a "line" 15"PB and still in the exchange time frame or not, I would contact Apple Customer Service, NOT Apple Care, and TRY to negotiate a replacement 1440x900 screen. The cat is out of the bag so you might have a better chance now.
They can't shoot you for asking!
DIXIE
buttercup said:
Two months ago I posted the belief that 1440x960 (instead of 1440x900) was the most likely problem with the screens. In spite of that, some poor soul on another thread/forum is currently bemoaning the LOSS OF PIXELS!
Somehow many people think that more of everything and anything is better .... not true!
Getting back to your question .... between now and February it is possible that Apple (in their customary stealth manner) MIGHT quietly install the revised 15" LCD on new orders for the still available 15"PPC PB from the Apple Online Store.
If I had a "line" 15"PB and still in the exchange time frame or not, I would contact Apple Customer Service, NOT Apple Care, and TRY to negotiate a replacement 1440x900 screen. The cat is out of the bag so you might have a better chance now.
They can't shoot you for asking!
DIXIE
Small window of opportunity
Two months ago I posted the belief that 1440x960 (instead of 1440x900) was the most likely problem with the screens. In spite of that, some poor soul on another thread/forum is currently bemoaning the LOSS OF PIXELS!
Somehow many people think that more of everything and anything is better .... not true!
Getting back to your question .... between now and February it is possible that Apple (in their customary stealth manner) MIGHT quietly install the revised 15" LCD on new orders for the still available 15"PPC PB from the Apple Online Store.
If I had a "line" 15"PB and still in the exchange time frame or not, I would contact Apple Customer Service, NOT Apple Care, and TRY to negotiate a replacement 1440x900 screen. The cat is out of the bag so you might have a better chance now.
They can't shoot you for asking!
DIXIE
buttercup said:
Two months ago I posted the belief that 1440x960 (instead of 1440x900) was the most likely problem with the screens. In spite of that, some poor soul on another thread/forum is currently bemoaning the LOSS OF PIXELS!
Somehow many people think that more of everything and anything is better .... not true!
Getting back to your question .... between now and February it is possible that Apple (in their customary stealth manner) MIGHT quietly install the revised 15" LCD on new orders for the still available 15"PPC PB from the Apple Online Store.
If I had a "line" 15"PB and still in the exchange time frame or not, I would contact Apple Customer Service, NOT Apple Care, and TRY to negotiate a replacement 1440x900 screen. The cat is out of the bag so you might have a better chance now.
They can't shoot you for asking!
DIXIE
DIXIE said:Getting back to your question .... between now and February it is possible that Apple (in their customary stealth manner) MIGHT quietly install the revised 15" LCD on new orders for the still available 15"PPC PB from the Apple Online Store.
If I had a "line" 15"PB and still in the exchange time frame or not, I would contact Apple Customer Service, NOT Apple Care, and TRY to negotiate a replacement 1440x900 screen. The cat is out of the bag so you might have a better chance now.
No way, because the new display is larger and won't fit.
buttercup said:
I was thinking the exact same thing - wish there was a way to know when exactly they decided what screen to use on that macbook!
Outside dimensions??
Yes, the illustrated diagonal is 15.4" on the new LCD and 15.2" on the "line" LCD.
However, the overall dimensions look the same (except the thickness). I'll have to check the width & length tech specs, but if they are the same, is it possible the screen frame was narrowed to gain space?
Anyway, if the new screen is too large, I would still call Apple Customer Service and plead, beg, or grovel for an exchange!
Who knows, Apple might take pity on the truly desperate!!
DIXIE
Wombert said:
Yes, the illustrated diagonal is 15.4" on the new LCD and 15.2" on the "line" LCD.
However, the overall dimensions look the same (except the thickness). I'll have to check the width & length tech specs, but if they are the same, is it possible the screen frame was narrowed to gain space?
Anyway, if the new screen is too large, I would still call Apple Customer Service and plead, beg, or grovel for an exchange!
Who knows, Apple might take pity on the truly desperate!!
DIXIE
The new case is larger, but thinner.DIXIE said:Yes, the illustrated diagonal is 15.4" on the new LCD and 15.2" on the "line" LCD.
However, the overall dimensions look the same (except the thickness). I'll have to check the width & length tech specs, but if they are the same, is it possible the screen frame was narrowed to gain space?
Anyway, if the new screen is too large, I would still call Apple Customer Service and plead, beg, or grovel for an exchange!
Who knows, Apple might take pity on the truly desperate!!
DIXIE
Apple Releases Mac OS X 10.4.4
Anyone try the 10.4.4 update yet?
https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110180240.shtml
Anyone try the 10.4.4 update yet?
https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110180240.shtml
Wombert said:
Final nail in coffin.. They are not going to do anything with these machines...
I'm glad now they decided to replace mine, when it arrives it will be shipped back unopened for a refund, and I now to choose macbookpro or intel imac...