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I was a little disappointed when the specs for the ipad ( and the name announcement) came out !

I'm tired of being held hostage ... Stuck in the middle because steve doesn't like flash... Because I'm not allowed to jail break my iPhone because it's Steves baby and he tells me how I can use it! I love my MacBook ... But only because it's not locked down ...

I bought the gf a netbook yesterday ... I must say with it's cobbled together os ( win 7 ) IT still manages to get the job done ... And even though it's costantly looking for a solution to a problem ... It does what I want!

If steve doesn't start giving the people what they want ... A cobbled together netbook at half the price is still a better value than a crippled os ...

It's a sad day :-(

I see your point.

But you and many other posters need to realize that:
(1) You say you're being limited by Steve and imply that Microsoft is not. Just because Microsoft has the majority of the market, doesn't mean it sets the standard. Did you suddenly forget the multitouch? Appstore? Cleaner UI? How come Microsoft (which doesn't have these) not constrain you?

Those who complain about the iPad really need to take a step back and realize that the world doesn't spin around them and their needs.

(2) A cobbled together netbook indeed may be able to do certain things that the "crippled OS" can't. But that's assuming that the world spins around you. To older generation people, the lack of a nice flat screen, multitouch, and a solid UI just for surfing the web in the first place makes the entire netbook "crippled". Please take a step back and realize that the techy community isn't actually that big. For normal people, they use devices such as the iPad just to surf the web, facebook, twitter, email. Anything else would actually cripple the OS than help it by creating too many features.

Remember that Apple creates products for the GENERAL public, not for the TECHY public. Unfortunately for the majority of the people on this forum, that means that their opinions really don't matter as much.

I understand that the iPad does indeed lack a few features, but I'm not complaining because it definitely did hit the nail on the rest of its features, which will make it a great seller among the majority of people. It's fine to express your opinions on features you would have liked or should have had, but don't hammer Apple as being a limiter or a failure for complying with you. If you do so, don't complain about "fanboys" going to the same extreme to support Apple.
 
This whole thing is getting more interesting by a day! :)

Here is my position:

- I have iPod Touch 2nd gen and love it, however, in about 1 year time I will need to replace it with something else...

- I would like a device that offers same things iPod Touch does at the moment but would also like screen to be little bit bigger. Approximately 5 or so inches in size would be about right since this way device would still be truly mobile... (as in pocket size)

- Having in mind slightly bigger screen this would mean I would browse web more frequently which again means plug-in support (from Flash onwards)

- music player, video player, full web support, email, phone, msging, notes, calendar etc... goes without saying - but few decent games and cool applications would be great too!


Now, when it comes down to Apple's iPad - even blind man could see potential there, however, it simply isn't device for me...

1. It's way too big

2. It looks like its not going to support the type of web browsing I need for work (no plug-in support)

So iPad is unfortunately out for me...


More choices the better!

So true - I want something pocketable too, and the Touch is too small for what I want - that's why I'm keeping an eye on the Archos Android line (5 or 7 inch), or the Dell.
 
More small-minded thinking from big PC manufacturers. Can they undercut the iPad on price? Of course. But that strategy didn't work with the iPod, nor the iPhone, and probably won't work against the iPad either. It shows they, as usual, aren't thinking very deeply about the meaning of this new form factor, the possibilities, what it represents for the future of the market. I do, however, think Apple is making a mistake by charging such a high premium for the 3G electronics. It's been shown the components for it cost less than $30, so not only will many people opt out of 3G on iPad, that's going to fragment their user base, add complexity to their inventory chain, and it's bad for developers. They are going to have to drop that price gap pretty fast, or better yet just do away with the WiFi only models.
 
In 18 months netbook sales will have dropped 85% from where they are now. If not worse.

Netbooks are underpowered and useless notebooks/laptops. They serve no niche in the market. They just show that there is a demand for a more portable and more useful device, which the netbook is not.

I disagree. An Atom based netbook replaced my old iBook G3 500Mhz as the laptop I carry about when I need to take something with me bigger than a smartphone for network/server admin.

The iPad is useless for the role of network/server admin just as the iPhone was before it which is exactly why I've a netbook and a Nokia phone that multitasks. I suspect I'll be dropping the netbook though this year as the rumoured Snapdragon based Nokia phones emerge.

Incidentally, if HP sticks a tablet version of Windows Phone 7 Series on the tablet, I'd think Apple would have some good competition from HP/Microsoft. It seems to me that WP7S fits better on a tablet screen than a phone screen.
 
lesson learned

I love apple and apple products, but i've learned my "early adopter" lesson. I'll wait until the ipad is running a decent version of snow leopard, has incorporated a webcam, and the price drops.
I know, i know it seems like i might be waiting for a long while but i bought the 1st gen ipod touch and the 2nd gen came out with a speaker, volume rocker, and was a hundred bucks cheaper. So i have faith that the things we all wanted the ipad to be, will eventually come to us through newer models, we just need to have patience.
That having been said, HP and other companies are willing to do a tablet the way most people would like them (with a complete OS), Apple needs to quit messing around.
 
I use my iPhone all the time!!

I use my iPhone all the time!! I hardly ever use my Asus laptop!! However, there there quite a few times I would have liked a bigger screen and more powerful chip. iPad will serve my need or want. I am a gamer, too. I like my games on the iPhone!! Call of Duty Zombies rule!! Plant vs. Zombies!! Next month, Street Fighter IV will rock! GTA chinatown wars is cool! I am looking forward to games on the iPad. I think it will be awesome! I am also looking forward to some productivity apps, too! Numbers from iWorks would be cool! I like the new calender will greater view. I think other planners may come out. I am looking forward to some magazines, too. I would like a hybrid audio, video, text reading book. iPad has a lot of killer assets!! Apple just created a "slate" for app developers to come up some amazing ideas. Apple's iphone multi-touch 1ghz and 9 inch screen is like a huge canvas. Developers are the painters. iPad is the extension of the iPhone that will lead to a new and more efficient computing for us. Now, only if apple can figure out a better way to type or tap a paper. I would have like the on-screen keyboard to look like a keyboard with sound effects. Maybe it is just getting in practice. We wrote by hands for a while before typewriters came about.
 
Competition can only be a good thing. When Apple released the iPhone was way out of left field and totally steamrolled the competition, but this time other companies are much more on the ball, and have even pre-empted Apple to some extent.

The iPad really would benefit by being more bespoke in its software capabilities or even simply its appearance to set it apart from its little brothers.

I hate to admit it but i agree with gizmodo that the visual setup of the iPhone (and by extention iPad) looks quite pedestrian compared to the slick new feel of WinMo 7 (although one might question its functionality) , i'm hoping for something really exciting in OS 4

Oh and this faux book / bookshelf and pleather calendar app style stuff? Totally disgusting.
 
Actually, Joe Consumer would probably prefer the iPad.

HAHA!! Have you watched any tech news lately? Have you watched ANY news lately? Even CNN is laughing at the iPad.

Joe Consumer is making fun of the pathetic iPad. Just google or ask a living person outside this forum. Please get out of the box and see the real world.

:D
 
So true - I want something pocketable too, and the Touch is too small for what I want - that's why I'm keeping an eye on the Archos Android line (5 or 7 inch), or the Dell.

Yeah... :)

Reason I think Apple missed the point with iPad is exactly this...

I don't need new PORTABLE device - I am perfectly happy with my MBP, thank you very much!

However, I do need better, more powerful, more versatile, MOBILE device with slightly larger screen than what I already have with iPod Touch...

So yeah, so far Dell, IMHO, is the only manufacturer who is trully aiming for my needs.

But lets give it some time since I am positive they will not be the only ones out there...

Who knows, maybe 4th gen iPod Touch might have 5-6 inch screen too!?

Not to say that it might support the Flash as well :p
 
Guess, we may have some Adobe employee trolling here!! Flash is a pig and fart too much!! I am a gadget lover!! I am not a hacker or a programmer! So, iPad is way cool!!
 
Guess, we may have some Adobe employee trolling here!! Flash is a pig and fart too much!! I am a gadget lover!! I am not a hacker or a programmer! So, iPad is way cool!!

Sure!

Anyone who isn't in the market for iPad and who can see some of its limitations, not to say anyone who slightly disagrees with almighty-Steve, MUST be Adobe (or perhaps M$!?!?) employee!

LOL :D
 
I see your point.

But you and many other posters need to realize that:
(1) You say you're being limited by Steve and imply that Microsoft is not. Just because Microsoft has the majority of the market, doesn't mean it sets the standard. Did you suddenly forget the multitouch? Appstore? Cleaner UI? How come Microsoft (which doesn't have these) not constrain you?

Simple answer: There is a difference between missing features (or just UI gimmicks) that are not there or not at optimal quality just because no one has jet done it and things that would be easily possible but are intentionally left out to protect DRM, to protect exclusive revenue streams or to prevent cannibalization of more expensive products.

The first sort is often the case with Linux on the desktop, with several mobile systems or with standard windows on tablets.
The second sort is often found with Apple products (at least the consumer oriented products) or other special purpose devices for media consumption (Kindle etc.).

There is no simple amswer to the question which is better. You can choose Apple concept that makes many things easy, but only as long as you do the things exactly as intended. Or you can choose something else that gives you more freedom but you have to learn more and in some situations you may be left on your own.

There is a market for both, obviously. An even better product would give you the best of both sides. And at the moment I think only Apple could deliver that. Why not put an "advanced mode" setting somewhere in the settings of iPad that enables you to install what you want on the device, gives you access to all files and a UNIX terminal window? This would not take away AppStore and would not make the device any more difficult to use for anyone who does not need that features.

Remember that Apple creates products for the GENERAL public, not for the TECHY public. Unfortunately for the majority of the people on this forum, that means that their opinions really don't matter as much.
This is not true in general. Mac Pro, XServe, Final cut studio, XCode and others are not really targeted at "general consumers".

I understand that the iPad does indeed lack a few features, but I'm not complaining because it definitely did hit the nail on the rest of its features, which will make it a great seller among the majority of people. It's fine to express your opinions on features you would have liked or should have had, but don't hammer Apple as being a limiter or a failure for complying with you. If you do so, don't complain about "fanboys" going to the same extreme to support Apple.
As above: There are two sides two this problem that do not exclude each other. Apple has done very well in this field: The Mac has been a very
easy to use computer even for the most casual users. But anyway things like the UNIX command line and even XCode are included with every Mac for free giving advanced users all the powers they want without making the experience for "grandma" any worse. She simply never installs XCode (and I think she does not even know it exists).

Apple could do the same on the iPad. But they don't want. And I think this does not really help anyone but Apple and shareholders.

Christian

I see your point.

But you and many other posters need to realize that:
(1) You say you're being limited by Steve and imply that Microsoft is not. Just because Microsoft has the majority of the market, doesn't mean it sets the standard. Did you suddenly forget the multitouch? Appstore? Cleaner UI? How come Microsoft (which doesn't have these) not constrain you?

There is a difference between missing features (or just UI gimmicks) that are not there or not at optimal quality just because no one has done them yet and things that would be easily possible but are intentionally locked out to protect DRM, to protect exclusive revenue streams or to prevent cannibalization of more expensive products. This difference may not be visible or relevant to everyone, but it's there.

The first sort is often the case with Linux on the desktop, with several mobile systems or with standard windows on tablets.
The second sort is often found with Apple products (at least the consumer oriented products) or other special purpose devices for media consumption (Kindle etc.).

There is no simple amswer to the question which is better. You can choose Apple concept that makes many things easy, but only as long as you do the things exactly as intended. Or you can choose something else that gives you more freedom but you have to learn more and in some situations you may be left on your own.

There is a market for both, obviously. An even better product would give you the best of both sides. And at the moment I think only Apple could deliver that. Why not put an "advanced mode" setting somewhere in the settings of iPad that enables you to install what you want on the device, gives you access to all files and a UNIX terminal window? This would not take away AppStore and would not make the device any more difficult to use for anyone who does not need that features.

Remember that Apple creates products for the GENERAL public, not for the TECHY public. Unfortunately for the majority of the people on this forum, that means that their opinions really don't matter as much.
This is not true in general. Mac Pro, XServe, Final cut studio, XCode and others are not really targeted at "general consumers".

I understand that the iPad does indeed lack a few features, but I'm not complaining because it definitely did hit the nail on the rest of its features, which will make it a great seller among the majority of people. It's fine to express your opinions on features you would have liked or should have had, but don't hammer Apple as being a limiter or a failure for complying with you. If you do so, don't complain about "fanboys" going to the same extreme to support Apple.
As above: There are two sides to this problem that do not exclude each other. Apple has done very well in this field: The Mac has been a very
easy to use computer even for the most casual users. But anyway things like the UNIX command line and even XCode are included with every Mac for free giving advanced users all the powers they want without making the experience for "grandma" any worse. She simply never installs XCode (and I think she does not even know it exists).

Apple could do the same on the iPad. But they simply don't want. And I think this does not really help anyone but the corporation itself. This does not mean the world should spin around me, it just means: The HP (or something else) could be the better choice for me.

Christian
 
HAHA!! Have you watched any tech news lately? Have you watched ANY news lately? Even CNN is laughing at the iPad.

Joe Consumer is making fun of the pathetic iPad. Just google or ask a living person outside this forum. Please get out of the box and see the real world.

:D

Lets look at the picture 2 months from now.
 
iSuppli, Bnet, Business Insider and other sources agree with your logic. They estimate the manufacturing cost of the basic model to be around $270, Apple having a profit margin of around 55% on the high-end one.
That's a totally naive calculation! Speak after me: Product costs are MUCH more than the mere sum of its manufacturing cost!

You have to dedicate resources for developing and testing it (including software - which is a strength of Apple and does not appear in these iSuppli et al. cost breakdowns) - often years before the actual release. Those people want to get paid during that development phase and not after a product is released. Common practice is to use the revenue of available products to finance development of the "next generation", so the iPad will also have to finance some products currently developed in the Apple labs.

For development you also need expensive tools, small amounts of hardware (--> more expensive than later in mass production) for prototypes and test units, deal with various regulation and patent authorities etc. Developers also want to have laboratories with heating/air conditioning, they need electricity, water and all these "negligible" small things that are for free all over the world... NOT!

If development eventually leads to a viable product, you have to organize all the logistics to make it available - in Apple's case worldwide! It's not like products do materialize in shops worldwide out of thin air! And that also includes supplying repair centers with spare parts etc. In parallel there is marketing that needs to be done (even though Apple does a brillant "viral" marketing, they do invest a good amount of money in "traditional" marketing).

Once the new product is in production you need provisions for production rejects, defectively returned units etc. Those happen all of the time, no matter which company! You could install 100% testing procedures to make sure only perfectly working units are leaving the plant, but that is not feasible on big mass production runs, as customers don't accept the significantly higher cost (not to mention the negative influence of this bottleneck to product availability).

And you also happen to develop on things that never see the light of day - that is simply part of the game, even for Apple. Those things consume resources (read: money), but never pay off (except for some experience that may be used on other products).

So all this adds to the manufacturing costs from the iSuppli breakdown (and i'm sure i did not mention each and every potential cost driver).

Could we now please stop with urban legends of Apple having 55% profit margin? People claiming this based on iSuppli breakdowns simply have NO CLUE of proper cost calculation...!
 
I own a MacBook, and an iPhone, and to be honest i am finding that i am using my iPhone for more and more of the tasks i would do on my mac. I think that the iPad will be ideal for my casual web browsing around the house, and my daily commute. It has many advantages over a win7 competitor:

- Battery life (possibly 3X that of a Slate?)
- Instant(ish) turn on (no need to wait 2 mins for win7 to boot)
- Fantastic build quality
- ips screen
- hardware-software integration

If i want a fully featured operating system i would use my MacBook, or my office PC. For checking my emails, browsing the web, or withering time away on a little game, however, i would just reach for my iPad. -- No Fuss.


.... also, i'm glad there is no front facing camera. The ergonomics would be horrible. Imagine holding a 9'' screen in front of your face and shouting at it on the train. Or i suppose you could treat your friends to a 15 mins video of your nostrils and ceiling.
 
It's the CONTENT, stupid

Back in 2001, Bill Gates predicted that the "Tablet PC" would be the dominant form factor within 5 years. If we accept the definition of Tablet PC as what was produced in those days, then there is nothing at all that links a Tablet PC to the iPad.

The Tablet PC is just a form factor running the same old operating systems, as a computer without a keyboard. I happen to like the Tablet PC. The Slate that HP described as well as all the others are just screens that run Windows. The teaser video some months ago about the MS Courier was a very different product, but it remains to be seen if that will ever see the light of day.

The iPad differentiates itself by not only the hardware form factor, but the library of content that is distributed by the AppStore, iTunes and the yet to be seen iBooks. What makes the iPad special is the CONTENT, and thats why people buy iPods and iPhones.

A keyboard-less windows box without specialized content will have an uphill battle from Day #1.
 
HP don't have my trust to produce a low budget tablet that isn't slow and flimsy, but we'll see. Lenovo on the other hand are the only PC I'd consider buying. I love their styling, so, utilitarian, usually. Though their iDeapad is a break away in terms of style, it does look to be a really ace machine. Just a shame it has no 3G. I just don't see the point (for me personally) to have one of these machines without 3G.
 
I realise that the perceived limitations of the iphone os is upsetting a lot of people. However, I have 3 macs in use and don't need the functionaity on a 10 inch touchscreen. What I want and need is a larger device to replicate the things I enjoy doing on my iphone

with this in mind I really dont see the slate being a direct competitor
 
Could we now please stop with urban legends of Apple having 55% profit margin? People claiming this based on iSuppli breakdowns simply have NO CLUE of proper cost calculation...!

There is another way to calculate margins. And that is to look at Apple's profits and divide them by the number of units to get a profit-per unit.

Then we can compare that to the retail price.

A rough calculation produces a profit per unit value of $216 on the iPhone.
The sale price of an iPhone is $200 or so. But the total revenue including subsidy is around $600.

So on iPhone we get a margin of around 36%

C.
 
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