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skellener

macrumors 68000
Jun 23, 2003
1,786
543
So. Cal.
Regardless of the reasons, the TouchPad clearly did not take off as HP had hoped.....

Is 49 days the new standard for a product to take off?

Personally I've never owned any HP product. While a loss of choice in the market is always a bad thing for consumers, I can't say I'll miss HP at all.
 

0dev

macrumors 68040
Dec 22, 2009
3,947
24
127.0.0.1
If webOS can be run through a browser, HP should just host it and market it as a "cloud OS". Cloud stuff is all the rage these days, and if they tailor it for computers and mobile devices they might actually gain a userbase.
 

AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
If they had waited and improved the hardware so that it did run twice as fast, the maybe it wouldn't have flopped. I tried out a touchpad at best buy and boy was it sluggish and laggy!

It would have been tough to crack into the iPad dominated market, but to have a chance they needed top shelf hardware and they didn't.

... that there is a lesson here; rushing to build a product to compete with someone else's already very good product, and producing an inferior product is bad. Most 1st year business students would understand that you don't take on the 800 pound gorilla with a dwarf in a monkey suit. I just don't understand why so many business think that they have to compete on every front, regardless of whether their product is actually good. In technology circles, that's suicide. Tech is moving too quickly to put out inferior products. People won't buy them because they'll find out quickly that they are not worth it.

They did rush it to market much too quickly, just as Google rushed Honeycomb and Motorola with the Xoom. It would have been far wiser to wait until you had a polished product to sell. These tablets didn't need to be pretty good, they needed to be outstanding to even have a remote chance of establishing some market share.

That is strange. I mean HP is good but the TouchPad failed because the design and the hardware of it was bad. I mean who makes a tablet thats glossy which makes it fingerprint?

Hmmmmm.....

I think HP will do something with Apple but I think they were just testing the WebOS on the iPad2. I don't think WebOS will be released to iPad.

You don't think Steve will switch to WebOS?

Somehow I don't feel sorry for anyone who plunked down $ for a market untested TouchPad. Clearly they bought it out of spite against Apple and Google rather than via an intelligently made decision. The risk WebOS would flop was quite high and clear. You walk on the edge, sometimes you fall off.

If these purchasers wanted something "safer" they'd have bought an Android tab or iPad.

That would surely have been a safer purchase.

If this is true, the junk hardware didn't do it any favors. It is symptomatic of HP's culture. Maybe it is a good move that they're abandoning consumer hardware – they obviously don't care about it.

And this is very disappointing, HP looked like they might be one more company that got it. In the end they were only aping Apple as a last ditch attempt to save their consumer hardware business. Very disappointing.

If they did care, they would have developed the hardware to go along with a great OS.

webOS runs better on an iPad than their own device?

That's like saying "Windows runs better on a Mac". Oh, wait....

Except Windows doesn't run better on a Mac.

Is this site dedicated to finger dragging ape OS's or Macs? It's pretty hard to find the "Mac" part of the culture anymore.

That is the future of Apple. We are soon to be in a post Mac world. As soon as Steve says it, all will believe.

WebOS was not the problem, hardware was a joke. Come on who is dumb enough to bring out sub-par hardware to a tablet market that Apple is running.

Old cook's like the CEO need to be throw out and new blood brought in like they did with IBM. Where is the innovation HP, where is the thinking outside the box.

Money alone does not make a product capable. I guess they are so use an easy business plan against Dell, Apple is not Dell, HP.

----------



On thought come to mind, "Old people think different".

The software is excellent. They rushed to to market and it wasn't ready or competitive, so it was doomed to fail. Too bad, IMO as it is an excellent OS.
 

cdinca

macrumors 6502
Jun 13, 2007
365
0
I can guarantee you that if this story is actually true, they would be testing it on an iPad 1.

For them to run on iPad 2, they would have to bootstrap a separate kernel etc. while iOS is already booted. They would also have to have a place to put all the operating system files for WebOS to use that would not interfere with iOS.

In the case of iPad 1, they can load WebOS from the bootrom level because of a DFU exploit.

Also, the WebOS team would have had to reverse all of the 'drivers' for the flash memory, screen, digitizer, etc -- this is something that the iPhone-Android team has been struggling with for years. The iPhone-Android project does not support iPad at all yet.

So my point is that it is extremely unlikely they ran "true" webOS on an iPad. The person reporting it probably made it up to make HP's tablet look bad. (which it is...)

They could have made an app that contained all of web OS.
 

whooleytoo

macrumors 604
Aug 2, 2002
6,607
716
Cork, Ireland.
I'm guessing this little tidbit is more important than it seems :



Essentially, I'm betting HP didn't even give it 6 weeks. The decision to abandon the hardware is probably something that has been brewing for quite some time, way before they even launched the hardware. Remember this :

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/09/live-from-hp-palms-think-beyond-webos-event/

Remember how they announced WebOS for printers ? Computers ?

Then June 1st, this little gem :

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/hps-leo-apotheker-totally-open-to-licensing-webos-to-other-hand/

I'm guessing HP has been planning this for a while. They only pushed out Palm's hardware, but really, it has been their plan to drop the hardware all along.

The way they did it sure hurts the credibility of the platform though (before this news, I might have picked one up at 299$ just for kicks, Staples offered that deal a few times).

Techcrunch has an interesting spin on this, implying Apotheker from the very start wanted to take HP in a very different direction, more following IBM's lead than Apple's. Once the TouchPad didn't immediately succeed, he had his opportunity to switch tack and here we are.
 

wovel

macrumors 68000
Mar 15, 2010
1,839
161
America(s)!
Does that actually mean they jailbroke the iPad to get their WebOS on it?
Shame on you, HP :p

I can guarantee you that if this story is actually true, they would be testing it on an iPad 1.

For them to run on iPad 2, they would have to bootstrap a separate kernel etc. while iOS is already booted. They would also have to have a place to put all the operating system files for WebOS to use that would not interfere with iOS.

In the case of iPad 1, they can load WebOS from the bootrom level because of a DFU exploit.

Also, the WebOS team would have had to reverse all of the 'drivers' for the flash memory, screen, digitizer, etc -- this is something that the iPhone-Android team has been struggling with for years. The iPhone-Android project does not support iPad at all yet.

So my point is that it is extremely unlikely they ran "true" webOS on an iPad. The person reporting it probably made it up to make HP's tablet look bad. (which it is...)



They could have made an app that contained all of web OS.


If you all three read the article, a line or two below the picture, you will see the article says that WebOS is faster running as a Web App under safari on an iPad 2 then it is running natively on HPs hardware.


Is this site dedicated to finger dragging ape OS's or Macs? It's pretty hard to find the "Mac" part of the culture anymore.
Your not trying very hard... It's everywhere.
 

kiljoy616

macrumors 68000
Apr 17, 2008
1,795
0
USA
Except Windows doesn't run better on a Mac.

Sorry to bust your bubble but it runs just the same so that is in a way better. I use both operating system and you can't tell the difference between an apple computer and a regular pc with windows on it. Only cool difference is the mac is a mac.

Try again.
 

AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
Sorry to bust your bubble but it runs just the same so that is in a way better. I use both operating system and you can't tell the difference between an apple computer and a regular pc with windows on it. Only cool difference is the mac is a mac.

Try again.

I disagree. It runs good on a Mac, but not better.
 

nightcap965

macrumors 6502a
Feb 11, 2004
727
866
Cape Cod
There can only be two.

There are always a plethora of operating systems, but when everything shakes out and the market matures, there are always two winners - two OSes with significant market share, and a bunch of losers in the bug dust.

Desktop OS: Windows and MacOS X. The Linux Desktop market share is negligible (as are all of the others).

Server OS: Linux and Windows. MacOS, Solaris, HP/UX, et cetera - all niche players.

Mainframes: IBM and Linux.

Supercomputers: Linux and IBM.

Smartphones and Tablets: Lots of activity, but the trends indicate that the winners will be iOS and Android. Everybody else is heading for the dustbin of history.

WebOS is a great operating system, but it never had a chance. It was killed by mismanagement.

In the words of Yoda, "Always two there are, no more, no less."
 

NAG

macrumors 68030
Aug 6, 2003
2,821
0
/usr/local/apps/nag
Techcrunch has an interesting spin on this, implying Apotheker from the very start wanted to take HP in a very different direction, more following IBM's lead than Apple's. Once the TouchPad didn't immediately succeed, he had his opportunity to switch tack and here we are.

Which is insane. How many years was it between Apple buying NeXT and the release of the iPad? I forgot who, but the phrase "HP tried to run before it could walk" has been thrown around. More like it tried to run a full marathon before it could crawl.

There can only be two.

There are always a plethora of operating systems, but when everything shakes out and the market matures, there are always two winners - two OSes with significant market share, and a bunch of losers in the bug dust.

[...]

I'm sorry but there aren't magic numbers. Mac OS was a niche player until very recently and it still is very small. As far as Linux, which distro? Are we including Android as Linux? Very sloppy classification all around. This also selectively looks at markets. What about consoles? They're computers yet we have three major platforms (if you ignore Apple accidentally falling into the market).
 
Last edited:

nightcap965

macrumors 6502a
Feb 11, 2004
727
866
Cape Cod
There can only be two.

There is always a surfeit of operating systems in the early days, but when everything shakes out and the market matures, there are only two winners - two OSes with significant market share, and a bunch of losers in the bug dust.

Desktop OS: Windows and MacOS X. The Linux Desktop market share is negligible (as are all of the others).

Server OS: Linux and Windows. MacOS, Solaris, HP/UX, et cetera - all niche players.

Mainframes: IBM and Linux.

Supercomputers: Linux and IBM.

Smartphones and Tablets: Lots of activity, but the trends indicate that the winners will be iOS and Android. Everybody else is heading for the dustbin of history.

WebOS is a great operating system, but it never had a chance. It was killed by mismanagement.

In the words of Yoda, "Always two there are, no more, no less."
 

accessoriesguy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2011
891
0
But if they make a new device with higher specs, the price tag would start a lot higher. Either they make it as high tech as the iPad and get their butt kicked with the next iPad, or make it so advance it can run against the next iPad in which case it would have a ridiculous price.

add the development costs for a new version of WebOS, it won't be so easy. Especially if Apple addresses the issues and listens to consumers by releasing a retna display, more RAM and better processor on the iPad, most wont want or need anything else.
 

MacNewsFix

macrumors 6502a
Oct 27, 2007
653
0
Twin Cities
Interesting that software runs better on Apple hardware. Windows XP runs better on my Macs as a virtual machine (Fusion & Virtual Box) than as a physical machine on my past VAIO's and Dell's.

Really? :eek:

Oops. Just remembered this one from a few years back:

MacBook Pro Is the Fastest Windows Vista Notebook

There can only be two.

In the words of Yoda, "Always two there are, no more, no less."

Not sure I completely agree as a hard and fast rule about this "there are always two" business, but I'm a sucker for any Star Wars analogy.

+1 :D
 

darkplanets

macrumors 6502a
Nov 6, 2009
853
1
Waiting 6 weeks before pulling the plug... odd. It seems preemptive. I personally would have stopped manufacturing and tried to sell-off the remaining inventory first, prior to any announcements. Announcing the split early only hurts their chances to sell some of those tablets off.

It's also a bit embarrassing to have such a hardware failure. A web app out performing your hardware? That's sad. Sounds like they needed a management change-up, not a complete decapitation of part of their business.

Nightcap965 does have a point, however. It's a crowded market.
 

cdinca

macrumors 6502
Jun 13, 2007
365
0
test webOS running on an iPad, finding that the operating system ran "over twice as fast" on the iPad 2 as it did on the TouchPad for which it had been designed. Even running as a web app within the iPad 2's Safari browser yielded substantially better performance than on the TouchPad

If you all three read the article, a line or two below the picture, you will see the article says that WebOS is faster running as a Web App under safari on an iPad 2 then it is running natively on HPs hardware.

Well, mr douchebag, the way the article is written seems to indicate two distict ways they ran web os. One which resulted in speeds that were "over twice as fast", and one which resulted in "substantially better performance". Even if that is not the case, and they only ran web os through Safari, you can't blame us for the lack of writing precision in the article.
 

wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

polbit said:
HP could go to hell, as they haven't done anything interesting in ages.

WebOS on the other hand is/was really interesting. It's sad that it was run to the ground by incompetent companies, and sad to loose what could've been an honest competitor to iOS.

This is my take, WebOS was an honest competitor. Google and Android isn't. About the only thing left is MeeGo and that has yet to see strong adoption.
 

KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,173
8,065
I doubt they'll find licensees on a mass scale. After all, if they couldn't design decent hardware for it, how could they build an ecosystem for it? Maybe Microsoft would be interested in the IP for future updates to their own OSes (Windows 9). It might also have a shot it Apple is successful at blocking more of the Android tablets.
 

Lesser Evets

macrumors 68040
Jan 7, 2006
3,527
1,294
LOLtimate failure.

What lasts longer?

A new WebOS device or a printer cartridge?

HP are d--ks. Their print carts are insanely priced and last 10 seconds. I still have an oldie from circa 2003/4, and it's expensive to run despite the carts being current on the market.

I'll never buy HP again.
 

Coleco

macrumors member
Dec 15, 2003
46
87
Apple should buy it

Apple should buy WebOS/Palm for the patent portfolio and build the best of it it into iOS.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
What a mess HP has become.

What lasts longer?

A new WebOS device or a printer cartridge?

A mess ? HP just re-centered themselves on exactly what lasts longer : The Enterprise market.

WebOS or printer cartridge ? Both of those are wrong. HP-UX boxes, Storage arrays and consulting/support services to install/configure/keep them running. That's what lasts longer and is more profitable.

HP is just making an exit from the consumer market it seems. They say they want to continue working on WebOS for OEMs, but it remains to be seen how that can be viable short/mid/long term.

There can only be two.

Server OS: Linux and Windows. MacOS, Solaris, HP/UX, et cetera - all niche players.

My HP-UX boxes beg to differ. They are a very profitable niche to HP. Costly big-iron Unix doesn't need volume sales to be a very good product for a company like HP. ;)
 

spillproof

macrumors 68020
Jun 4, 2009
2,028
2
USA
I'm sorry, this is hilarious. HP, what did you do to yourself? (Not that I really care, I hate HP products with a passion.)
 

NAG

macrumors 68030
Aug 6, 2003
2,821
0
/usr/local/apps/nag
HP is just making an exit from the consumer market it seems. They say they want to continue working on WebOS for OEMs, but it remains to be seen how that can be viable short/mid/long term.

Thats the part that doesn't make sense here. They're refocusing on things like HP-UX but also keeping webOS. How does that make sense? HP buying Palm looks like it was a horrible mistake at this point. I'd like to be wrong here. I hope HP has some really neat usage for webOS that they just can't talk about yet. But this looks about as thought out as Google's bid for Motorola Mobility.
 
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