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I absolutely agree that Jobs is rolling in his grave. Jobs was very form over function in some ways, but the notch would be an affront to him. He would have never allowed the X to see the light of day. I know that is speculation, but I truly believe it based on his track record. They are making money because of consumer trust and brand recognition. I’m not saying the X or iOS are bad products, but rehashing the iPhone 6 design in the 8 and that notch in the X just don’t sync up with the previous products. I’m not telling them how to run their business from the cheap seats, but it does look like they are getting a bit lazy.

Either lazy or hit an innovation wall or something in between. It became evident with the introduction of iPhone 7, then reassured with the 8. All these companies can only do and provide in a small package to balance battery life, mobility, processing power, functionality, cameras, etc.

Making a phone bend,flex,foldable, curved only provides the opportunity to incorporate a larger screen to fit in a pocket. Most people do not use or even know their new phone can do so much more, their buy it because the casing is different and it is used as a fashion/status symbol.

In this example I have come across so many iPhone users who did not even know or use the advanced features. The phone was used primarily to text, call, web surf, social media, email, pictures, music and video to a limited extent unless it is the only device their have. Most don’t notice processor speed or ram specs. Battery life, screen brightness and resolution are observable things in day-to-day usage.

All these manufacturers can pack everything and the kitchen sink in this magical device, however most customers use a fraction of its capabilities. There are exceptions (macrumors forum members) however this is the minority technology enthusiast.
 
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This is just ignorant. Huawei actually spends 1.5 times more on R&D than Apple ($15B vs $10B).

Not all that comparable as you are comparing Huawei total R&D budget with Apple's total R&D budget. Huawei is doing way more than Apple so their R&D budget is spread a cross a bunch of different fields and areas. Apple has a extremely dense and limited line of products and fields they are researching compared to how big they have become.

All their closets competitors are dumping R&D into a much larger range of products and services compared to Apple. So Apple's R&D budget for especially the phones are most likely taking up a much larger percentage of the total R&D budget than any of the other companies like Huawei, Samsung, Microsoft etc..
 
Not everyone can afford $700+ dollar phones, Apple has tried with the iPhone SE but they need to lower the price abit/add more features to entice people in developing countries.
Why would they need to lower prices?

This chart shows how is selling how many units of phones. If some competitor sells five really cheap Android phones for £60 each, and Apple sells an iPhone X for £999, do you think Apple worries that they are being outsold 5 to 1? They don't. Apple is quite happy if Huawei sells lots of phones, and Apple makes lots of money.

Apple's average selling price is $700. Please lets have a chart for "phones over $700" and see how Apple is doing where the money is made.
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Huawei made $7.3 billion in profits in 2017.
Not by selling phones.
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The one who should worry is Samsung. Samsung thinks they’re competing with Apple, while in reality the ones eating their market share are the Chinese OEMs. Yet Samsung continues wasting money mocking Apple.
Exactly. If you look at the chart, Huawei took no sales from Apple, but 10 million phone sales from Samsung. If they continue, Apple will be #2 again in unit sales in two years time - but behind Huawei and before Samsung.
 
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Not going to argue if there is spyware on foreign devices, however how do you know for sure that there is no NSA spyware on Apple devices. Just saying if I was a foreign consumer purchasing an Apple product manufactured in China for an American company and sold in this example China, should I not be suspect of Apple.

How do we really know that there is no "zero-day" type of trojan in iOS, considering one can circumvent via jailbreaks.
Is Apple's device created and assembled in china?
 
Numbers mean nothing. I can prove Apple is far superior by comparing the two companies' total revenue.

Apple 2017 total iPhone: 216,760,000 sold.
Huawei 2017 total phone: 153,000,000 sold.

2017 Apple Revenue from iPhone Net: $141,319,000,000
2017 Huawei Revenue from Phone Net: $43,813,458.99
Difference: 3225x more revenue from iPhone than Huawei.
Difference as a fraction: Huawei's revenue is 0.003% of Apple's total iPhone revenue.
I think you may want to check these numbers. Both your sources, and your calculations.
 
Plenty of opportunity it seems when it comes to lower priced Android phones. I would imagine this worries Samsung quite a bit. Still wild to me how many people don't care about privacy though, Huawei has one of the worst privacy policies I have seen - everything on their phones, financial info, personal contacts, employment info, is all available to them.
Dude, it is not Android anymore. It is WeChat and whatsApp, and other all-in-one agnostic apps. That is my view.

They have become the de-facto common skin across mobile platforms -- maybe not in the US (yet), but travel abroad, and you will find that iPhone's apps have been left in the cold, and are incompatible to group-wide communications.

On privacy, that has become Apple's rallying (and selling) claim.
But outside the US, even in the Western World, that falls on deaf ears, because government surveillance is always assumed and present.
[Have you ever been in London, and observed the large network of CCTV cameras?]
 
Looks like Huawei, Xiaomi and OPPO will be top three in few years.
And Samsung/Apple should share next spots respectively!
Regardless Apple will still lead the profits by quite a margin. Quantity doesn't matter!


Yeah like profit really means a lot for the consumer and not talking about someone with Apple Stocks. SO profit is irreverent regarding to this article.
 
So you're ok with the concept of china requiring backdoors in anything technology related?

I'm no expert, but doesn't the US government do the same?
Afair they are legally allowed to grab data without judical order (patriot / freedom act) even from overseas within other countries' legislation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying government A is better / worse than government B - I think every government does it or would do it, if they'd have the technology to do so.
It's just ironic you as an US-american using THIS as criteria...
 
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I since Apple dropping their prices again to compete. premium vs average smartphone is becoming a non-gamer in today's consumer market.
 
But it't not really a notch. And nobody has copied that design. However, look at Apple's design. And now look how many people are using the iPhone X style notch.

It's a notch, just like the Essential has. At least the Essential PH-1 has amazing industrial design going for it as well.
 
Numbers mean nothing. I can prove Apple is far superior by comparing the two companies' total revenue.

Apple 2017 total iPhone: 216,760,000 sold.
Huawei 2017 total phone: 153,000,000 sold.

2017 Apple Revenue from iPhone Net: $141,319,000,000
2017 Huawei Revenue from Phone Net: $43,813,458.99
Difference: 3225x more revenue from iPhone than Huawei.
Difference as a fraction: Huawei's revenue is 0.003% of Apple's total iPhone revenue.

So, Huawei may be shipping more phones, but Apple makes 3225 times more revenue. That means that every dollar Huawei makes from an Android phone, Apple makes $3,225 from iPhone.

Anybody can shovel out a cheap phone, look at HTC or BlackBerry or Nokia. It takes ability, design, and marketing to be selling just about a similar amount of highly expensive phones.

So, Huawei can have their second place in the inexpensive market.
Apple made $141 BILLION US off of iPhone ALONE.
Huawei made $43 MILLION US off of their Android line.

They're not even in the same Solar System in terms of net revenue.

Has anyone factored that there are more people globally living in poverty, purchasing a smartphone and service is the least of their concerns. The few who don’t fit in that category can not afford expensive smartphones, this is where growth is. The number of people globally who can afford an iPhone are in the minority. What you are observing is either people who already own an iPhone who are upgrading or upgrading frequently or people who purchase and do not upgrade for years. I recently an individual from a Germany who upgraded to the iPhone X from an original release of the iPhone 5, and their do not plan to upgrade until the X is unusable. This individual handed their iPhone 5 to their family member.

People are buying iPhones on credit or some carrier plan, Apple knows this thus their introduced the iPhone upgrade plan. Some people are reckless with their phones, can one imagine replacing an expensive phone often, even with insurance it does not make sense. We can blame people to be more careful, however that is personal choice/responsibility. Many iPhones get recycled down to developing markets. What I like about iPhone and iOS is that one can get annual iOS updates/upgrades for years vice AndroidOS only a year or two.
 
Dude, it is not Android anymore. It is WeChat and whatsApp, and other all-in-one agnostic apps. That is my view.

They have become the de-facto common skin across mobile platforms -- maybe not in the US (yet), but travel abroad, and you will find that iPhone's apps have been left in the cold, and are incompatible to group-wide communications.

On privacy, that has become Apple's rallying (and selling) claim.
But outside the US, even in the Western World, that falls on deaf ears, because government surveillance is always assumed and present.
[Have you ever been in London, and observed the large network of CCTV cameras?]
That is an interesting point.
 
I'm no expert, but doesn't the US government do the same?
Afair they are legally allowed to grab data without judical order (patriot / freedom act) even from overseas within other countries' legislation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying government A is better / worse than government B - I think every government does it or would do it, if they'd have the technology to do so.
It's just ironic you as an US-american using THIS as criteria...

They don't (yet) have a backdoor installed from the factory on devices. That's what I'm getting at.

And yeah, I get the irony. Don't blame me, I didn't vote for he-who-shall-not-be-named.
 
Do you really believe the average consumer is going around worrying about Apple's profit margins? I think the average consumer is hoping for good/decent product for the amount of money they are paying these days.
That’s what I’m saying. Market share, revenues and profits are irrelevant to product purchasers unless one likes to feel the same or different. It only matters in discussions such as what regularly occurs within these boards.
 
Yup, super high margins in place of market share growth. Be careful Tim. The ride won't last forever. Especially with 60% of your sales outside the US now. Services growth is great, but not a panacea. The number of phones sold does make a difference. Of course, you know this already. :rolleyes:
 
Is Apple's device created and assembled in china?

Apple designs it processors and some other components in-house, how much is done in collaboration with other companies or countries is never disclosed completely. For reference Apple works with Samsung Display to customize AMOLED displays, it is not revealed to what extent.

Even if Apple has not been compromised this does not mean any of its other component manufacturers share the same mindset.
 
Yup, super high margins in place of market share growth. Be careful Tim. The ride won't last forever. Especially with 60% of your sales outside the US now. Services growth is great, but not a panacea. The number of phones sold does make a difference. Of course, you know this already. :rolleyes:

Eventually Apple will be forced to drop their prices or make cheaper products in general. After all apple products are just Frankensteined by other consumer products ala samsung, LG etc..
 
Dude, it is not Android anymore. It is WeChat and whatsApp, and other all-in-one agnostic apps. That is my view.

They have become the de-facto common skin across mobile platforms -- maybe not in the US (yet), but travel abroad, and you will find that iPhone's apps have been left in the cold, and are incompatible to group-wide communications.

On privacy, that has become Apple's rallying (and selling) claim.
But outside the US, even in the Western World, that falls on deaf ears, because government surveillance is always assumed and present.
[Have you ever been in London, and observed the large network of CCTV cameras?]

I am a bit lost on what you were getting at here. I guess in the end, if people are okay with the companies privacy policy, so be it.
 
No surprise when you look at apples ridiculous iPhone prices.
Come on Apple, wake up and lower your prices.
 
Why would they need to lower prices?

This chart shows how is selling how many units of phones. If some competitor sells five really cheap Android phones for £60 each, and Apple sells an iPhone X for £999, do you think Apple worries that they are being outsold 5 to 1? They don't. Apple is quite happy if Huawei sells lots of phones, and Apple makes lots of money.

Apple's average selling price is $700. Please lets have a chart for "phones over $700" and see how Apple is doing where the money is made.
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Not by selling phones.
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Exactly. If you look at the chart, Huawei took no sales from Apple, but 10 million phone sales from Samsung. If they continue, Apple will be #2 again in unit sales in two years time - but behind Huawei and before Samsung.

Low cost smartphones are a gateway to integrate a user into an ecosystem (Google). Once people have spent years and deeply entrenched their do not want to spend the time to learn a new OS/environment unless their have to. Many companies including Apple know/understand and do this early in a potential lifelong customer via educational markets.

When people know, understand and trust a specific brand for a long time, the willingness to change is very challenging. In this example iOS users do this, they are very loyal to Apple and the iPhone. I see this with AndroidOS/Google as well.

The challenge here is that Apple like a luxury automotive company is trying to sell a vehicle in a market that can only afford a bicycle, and to do this one requires credit or carrier subsidies, and then becomes a target for theft.

The market for luxury items pales in comparison to the day-to-day items that people require and can afford. This is like comparing Walmart to Saks.
 
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