I am beyond impressed! I would dare say the new MBPs qualify as "magical"

[cap7ainclu7ch]

The RAM should be DDR4.

4K would be fantastic for editing 4k footage. Are you really arguing against higher resolution displays? I'm constantly using my MacBook for photography and video editing. Every iPhone shoots 4k now but your $4k laptop can't display it natively? (while a dell XPS at a fraction of the price can?)

And as you just admitted 20% larger battery would have been "nice". I'd say it would be more than nice, and a huge feature (battery life is a very important metric for a laptop, and 20% with the same thin form factor as the current model would have been AWESOME).

In terms of graphics any Nvidia offering would have wiped the floor with these entry level polaris cards.



If the computer satisfies your needs thats cool, but myself and countless others are very let down with this "update". There are waaaaaaay too many areas that are simply not addressed.

can you defend the shallow travel keyboard?
or the lack of pencil support on that HUGE trackpad that would have literally been perfect for it?
how about magsafe disappearing into thin air?
or all the useful IO options on the previous models? (I can't even count the amount of times the HDMI and SD slot have been a godsend, and now were don't have legacy USB?!)

Seems more air than pro to me and if you can't see that at this point then I hope you enjoy your new laptop.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

The RAM should be DDR4.

4K would be fantastic for editing 4k footage. Are you really arguing against higher resolution displays? I'm constantly using my MacBook for photography and video editing. Every iPhone shoots 4k now but your $4k laptop can't display it natively? (while a dell XPS at a fraction of the price can?)

And as you just admitted 20% larger battery would have been "nice". I'd say it would be more than nice, and a huge feature (battery life is a very important metric for a laptop, and 20% with the same thin form factor as the current model would have been AWESOME).

In terms of graphics any Nvidia offering would have wiped the floor with these entry level polaris cards.



If the computer satisfies your needs thats cool, but myself and countless others are very let down with this "update". There are waaaaaaay too many areas that are simply not addressed.

can you defend the shallow travel keyboard?
or the lack of pencil support on that HUGE trackpad that would have literally been perfect for it?
how about magsafe disappearing into thin air?
or all the useful IO options on the previous models? (I can't even count the amount of times the HDMI and SD slot have been a godsend, and now were don't have legacy USB?!)

Seems more air than pro to me and if you can't see that at this point then I hope you enjoy your new laptop.

DDR4 is not impressive or special or neccesary, nobody can tell the difference. We are already maxed out in performance. Its a Mac.

4K is for movie theaters and large TVs, not a 15 inch screen. You cant tell the difference between native this or that, its just a big beautiful picture and you cant see pixels. And its brighter than ever. Dont worry about what resolution it is.

Why do people keep trying to tell Apple to care about specs that dont matter on such a beautiful, powerful, and efficient machine at the expense of battery life and size? Its about the feel and user experience first and foremost.

 

[username:]

I don't blame you. The media coverage of this stuff is really lacking. The problem is that you have companies (Dell) trying to appeal to consumers by releasing new tech early (even if it effectively means loosing performance) and the consumer doesn't double check. The fact is, the Skylake used in the 13" MBP is faster than the Kaby Lake in the new Dell, but because its newer, many people naturally assumed that the Dell is faster. Its a misconception I have seen way too frequently over the last week or so.

It's something Steve Jobs would have mentioned in the keynote I think. Watching some of his old keynotes, he new exactly what was important and said it up front.

I hope this doesn't come across as a typical "if Steve was here" comment but he was known as one of the best communicators and marketers so I think he would have highlighted this fact more as the specs are impressive.

 

[Ryan1524]

People who are really going to edit 4K videos properly will most likely have external displays to do this with.

And at 15", you can barely tell the difference between HD or 4K

 

[Zellio]

People who are really going to edit 4K videos properly will most likely have external displays to do this with.

And at 15", you can barely tell the difference between HD or 4K

Hey cool, another person who needs glasses. You guys should join a club

 

[Donoban]

For the first time in a long time Apple impressed me.

Ridiculously fun and interactive and efficiently productive.

You aware brah?

 

[Bobby Corwen]

Hey cool, another person who needs glasses. You guys should join a club

Or maybe we just know better that something is nice when we see it.

The retina Mac has the best looking portable computer screen on the market and the most color accurate. This new one is even better.

 

[Pentium]

The only thing I like is the new top processor u can get in the MacBook Pro 15 inch...

but 4299$ plus tax + all these adapters and dongles + no DDR4 + 16 GB RAM limit + No new 4k screen = no like at all...

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

Regarding all the "you don't need 4k stuff" I can absolutely tell the difference on a 15" laptop.

 

[tubeexperience]

I guess I was under the impression that the Kaby lake processors were ready to go. I was wrong then.

Kaby Lake for the MacBook Pro 13-inch is already available had Apple chosen to use it.

 

[Zellio]

Or maybe we just know better that something is nice when we see it.

The retina Mac has the best looking portable computer screen on the market and the most color accurate. This new one is even better.

I really do hope you are just trolling, because my Alienware OLED display laughs

 

[tubeexperience]

I don't blame you. The media coverage of this stuff is really lacking. The problem is that you have companies (Dell) trying to appeal to consumers by releasing new tech early (even if it effectively means loosing performance) and the consumer doesn't double check. The fact is, the Skylake used in the 13" MBP is faster than the Kaby Lake in the new Dell, but because its newer, many people naturally assumed that the Dell is faster. Its a misconception I have seen way too frequently over the last week or so.

Kaby Lake for the MacBook Pro 13-inch is already available had Apple chosen to use it.

 

[Wild-Bill]

If "magical" means not being able to connect any of their own products to it without a dongle, yeah, sure. Magical indeed.

 

[Ryan1524]

Regarding all the "you don't need 4k stuff" I can absolutely tell the difference on a 15" laptop.

I'm sure it's visible if you look hard enough. But is it worth the battery life and performance impact at this point?

Maybe once all the mobile GPUs go into next gen, and Kaby Lake arrives.

 

[Rob_2811]

Couldn't disagree more. I think the touchbar is a bit pointless really, for me anyway. I think I would find it annoying more than anything.

I've not ordered anything yet because I'm torn between the base 13 without the touch bar and the base 13 with the bar.

Love the the way they have essentially plonked the MacBook Air processor in the one with the normal FN keys. So I can have a decent processor and a gimmicky touch bar that i'll never use (cos, well you know i've know how to use a keyboard for a while now..) or a normal keyboard and the processor out of the MacBook Air.

Fabulous
[doublepost=1477793108][/doublepost]

I'm sure it's visible if you look hard enough. But is it worth the battery life and performance impact at this point?

Maybe once all the mobile GPUs go into next gen, and Kaby Lake arrives.

2020 in Cupertino then.

 

[Donoban]

I stopped reading at the bolded part.

I know how people see this as a gimmick but I can tell it's gonna be special.

Wait till you try one in person. I honestly think it's not a gimmick.

Lulz. Pls don't post this thread to the misc.

 

[thunng8]

Kaby Lake for the MacBook Pro 13-inch is already available had Apple chosen to use it.

Nope. For one final time, if Apple chose the current Kaby lake processor they would be taking a massive hit on graphics performance as no kaby lake processor with Iris graphic has been released.. it is due for Q1 2017. So around feb/ march next year

 

[Donoban]

Nope. For one final time, if Apple chose the current Kaby lake processor they would be taking a massive hit on graphics performance as no kaby lake processor with Iris graphic has been released.. it is due for Q1 2017. So around feb/ march next year

Also, the DDR3 speed in the MBP vs DDR4 is bit of a moot point as well. We're talking such small % of difference either way.

 

[leman]

The RAM should be DDR4.

Why? Again, the DDR4 in the other premium-level laptops is slower than the DDR3 in the new MBP.

4K would be fantastic for editing 4k footage. Are you really arguing against higher resolution displays? I'm constantly using my MacBook for photography and video editing. Every iPhone shoots 4k now but your $4k laptop can't display it natively? (while a dell XPS at a fraction of the price can?)

I am certainly not arguing agains high-resolution displays. I am just saying that going beyond 220ppi (what MBP offers) does not offer a substantial difference on a 15" screen for normal viewing distances — the pixels are already small enough. IMO, Apple hit a good balance here. Much more important than marginal resolution increases are color accuracy and other display parameters — and that has been increased dramatically on the new MBP. Also, don't forget that Apple uses a 16:10 panel as opposed to the cheaper 16:9 panels on contemporary 4K laptops.

And as you just admitted 20% larger battery would have been "nice". I'd say it would be more than nice, and a huge feature (battery life is a very important metric for a laptop, and 20% with the same thin form factor as the current model would have been AWESOME).

I agree.

In terms of graphics any Nvidia offering would have wiped the floor with these entry level polaris cards.

Sure they would. Cause the slowest currently available Nvidia mobile card draws more power than the entire 15" MBP. Again, lets stay within the domain of real technology here. Apple uses GPUs with sub 50W TDP. Nvidia doesn't offer such a GPU currently. The GTX 1050 will arrive Q1 2017 — then we can benchmark it agains the 460 Pro and see whether the difference is that large (my guess — it won't be).

Also, lets not forget the production constraints. I have talked about this in another thread. The unique position of Apple that they ship more of the same laptop model than any other manufacturer. Which means that they need a steady, huge supply of chips. We already see the effect of that on Polaris 11 availability: even the desktop version of it uses a 'defective' 14CU version, simply because Apple has bought all the perfect chips. Would Nvidia be able to deliver a sufficient amount of GPUs with the required performance characteristics? Its not something we general public can know. We can certainly speculate. Anyway, I am sure that the technological constraints like these are a major factor, and a one constantly overlooked. For example, it seems very likely to me that Apple adopted Skylake so late simply because Intel was unable to deliver a sufficient quantity of Iris Pro enabled models, so they were waiting until they had something to replace it with (currently, Polaris 11 is really the only alternative).

can you defend the shallow travel keyboard?

Do I have to? Its a matter of taste, after all. I do like the MB 12" keyboard, it has a much more solid feel to it and its easier on the fingers. I haven't tried the new MBP keyboard yet.

or all the useful IO options on the previous models? (I can't even count the amount of times the HDMI and SD slot have been a godsend, and now were don't have legacy USB?!)

Frankly, I think these concerns are being totally overblown. All the USB issues are solved by replacing the cables your USB devices currently use. Its a minimal investment. The loss of HDMI doesn't bother me really, as I already have to carry a VGA and DVI converter anyway, as most beamers out there still don't have HDMI. Actually, the new ports are a quality of life improvement to me, because I can use a single connection point dock to connect to all the stuff in my office.

Seems more air than pro to me and if you can't see that at this point then I hope you enjoy your new laptop.

Now we are entering a highly polemics area. How do you define air vs pro? By the portability/size factor alone? Sure, then thats an air. I believe the more common description also refers to performance in some way. And in regards to performance, thats the fastest Mac laptop ever made, and it more then holds its own to other comparable laptops such as Dell XPS 15 and Microsoft Surfacebook with Performance Base. I know that a lot of people want something faster still, but usually they fail to explain how this 'faster' can be achieved. The MBP already uses the fastest components currently available — literally. Within the thermal envelope that Apple has set for its 15" laptops YEARS ago, there is simply no supplies of any faster CPU and GPU on the market.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Solitaire doesn't count

Nice try. The Best Buy employee logged into his account for some legends something game. I don't know the name of it. I'm not a gamer. That doesn't interest me right now. What I do know is the graphics were amazing.

I'm speaking for what I saw with my own eyes in person up close as opposed to trying to talk someone else down.

 

[vatter69]

No Kaby Lake available suitable for the 'pro' series. Only m-Class or the 15w used in the typical Air model. People without knowledge stop posting this please - this is really getting old.

I would have expected DDR4 ram as well, especially since it uses less power to run - no idea what Apple did here or why but i guess they have their reason.

You can buy a USB-C to USB-A, HDMI, GigabitEthernet and SD-Card device, all in one, for like 20-40$. Depending what you like. So there goes the dongle theory. So that's 1 device that covers it all. Sure, i would have preferred the USB-A and SD-Card on the right side and 2 TB3/USB-C ports on the left but that's not what Apple wanted. Will i miss Magsafe? Sure. Let's see how tight the USB-C charging cable sits and how easy it slides out.

4k Displays have 1 main feature - they uses alot of more power than the current Retina Displays. I don't want that. I would have expected Apple to up the resolution though, for the 13" move to 2880x1800 and for the 15" to 3300x2100.

Apple has been going for design over function for years, especially since Mr Cook is at the helm who certainly knows how to squeeze out the most profit out of any product they sell. I don't really understand the outcry now.

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

Why? Again, the DDR4 in the other premium-level laptops is slower than the DDR3 in the new MBP.



I am certainly not arguing agains high-resolution displays. I am just saying that going beyond 220ppi (what MBP offers) does not offer a substantial difference on a 15" screen for normal viewing distances — the pixels are already small enough. IMO, Apple hit a good balance here. Much more important than marginal resolution increases are color accuracy and other display parameters — and that has been increased dramatically on the new MBP. Also, don't forget that Apple uses a 16:10 panel as opposed to the cheaper 16:9 panels on contemporary 4K laptops.



I agree.



Sure they would. Cause the slowest currently available Nvidia mobile card draws more power than the entire 15" MBP. Again, lets stay within the domain of real technology here. Apple uses GPUs with sub 50W TDP. Nvidia doesn't offer such a GPU currently. The GTX 1050 will arrive Q1 2017 — then we can benchmark it agains the 460 Pro and see whether the difference is that large (my guess — it won't be).

Also, lets not forget the production constraints. I have talked about this in another thread. The unique position of Apple that they ship more of the same laptop model than any other manufacturer. Which means that they need a steady, huge supply of chips. We already see the effect of that on Polaris 11 availability: even the desktop version of it uses a 'defective' 14CU version, simply because Apple has bought all the perfect chips. Would Nvidia be able to deliver a sufficient amount of GPUs with the required performance characteristics? Its not something we general public can know. We can certainly speculate. Anyway, I am sure that the technological constraints like these are a major factor, and a one constantly overlooked. For example, it seems very likely to me that Apple adopted Skylake so late simply because Intel was unable to deliver a sufficient quantity of Iris Pro enabled models, so they were waiting until they had something to replace it with (currently, Polaris 11 is really the only alternative).



Do I have to? Its a matter of taste, after all. I do like the MB 12" keyboard, it has a much more solid feel to it and its easier on the fingers. I haven't tried the new MBP keyboard yet.



Frankly, I think these concerns are being totally overblown. All the USB issues are solved by replacing the cables your USB devices currently use. Its a minimal investment. The loss of HDMI doesn't bother me really, as I already have to carry a VGA and DVI converter anyway, as most beamers out there still don't have HDMI. Actually, the new ports are a quality of life improvement to me, because I can use a single connection point dock to connect to all the stuff in my office.



Now we are entering a highly polemics area. How do you define air vs pro? By the portability/size factor alone? Sure, then thats an air. I believe the more common description also refers to performance in some way. And in regards to performance, thats the fastest Mac laptop ever made, and it more then holds its own to other comparable laptops such as Dell XPS 15 and Microsoft Surfacebook with Performance Base. I know that a lot of people want something faster still, but usually they fail to explain how this 'faster' can be achieved. The MBP already uses the fastest components currently available — literally. Within the thermal envelope that Apple has set for its 15" laptops YEARS ago, there is simply no supplies of any faster CPU and GPU on the market.

It seems like a fair amount of the points you brought up are about power conservation, which is funny because as we have already discussed they could have kept a similar form factor as the current model and had an extra 20% battery life to play with. I'm pretty sure any "pro" would take an nvidia GPU with 2x the performance and 32gb ram instead of losing a few MM off an already thin computer. I understand that you appreciate the direction they are taking, but how can it not be argued that they are "air"ifying the pro lineup? How much are we willing to sacrifice for form factor? I don't want to spend 4k on a computer than won't be able to cut it in a few years. I want a real keyboard, I want a real battery, and I want a computer built for performance over thinness.

 

[leman]

It seems like a fair amount of the points you brought up are about power conservation, which is funny because as we have already discussed they could have kept a similar form factor as the current model and had an extra 20% battery life to play with. I'm pretty sure any "pro" would take an nvidia GPU with 2x the performance and 32gb ram instead of losing a few MM off an already thin computer. I understand that you appreciate the direction they are taking, but how can it not be argued that they are "air"ifying the pro lineup? How much are we willing to sacrifice for form factor? I don't want to spend 4k on a computer than won't be able to cut it in a few years. I want a real keyboard, I want a real battery, and I want a computer built for performance over thinness.

Yes and no I am more focusing at the design spec that Apple has been following for years and years now. Since their very first MacBook Pro, they made a number of design choices:

1. Fastest available consumer-level CPU
2. Maximal mobility given the contemporary technology
3. Most efficient available GPU with TDP of 45W or lower

The point is, that the 2016 model follows this design to the letter. Its the most balanced implementation of this MacBook Pro vision. And furthermore, that vision is not new. It certainly makes sense to argue for a different path, one that uses higher-tier GPUs and sacrifices mobility/battery for it.

However, I don't really understand why this kind of argument is used as a criticism of the 2016 MBP, given the context. The new MBP doesn't do anything different really. It follows the line of reasoning that Apple has been promoting since at least a decade, if not longer. All points that you are making equally apply to any MBP ever produced by Apple, maybe even more so.

 

[HellasLEAF]

I think we need to pick one up first. Feel the weight and size of it before we make too harsh a judgement. Online pictures will only do so much.

I mean, them shrinking all that tech into the new package is the biggest selling point no? Or one of.

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

Yes and no I am more focusing at the design spec that Apple has been following for years and years now. Since their very first MacBook Pro, they made a number of design choices:

1. Fastest available consumer-level CPU
2. Maximal mobility given the contemporary technology
3. Most efficient available GPU with TDP of 45W or lower

The point is, that the 2016 model follows this design to the letter. Its the most balanced implementation of this MacBook Pro vision. And furthermore, that vision is not new. It certainly makes sense to argue for a different path, one that uses higher-tier GPUs and sacrifices mobility/battery for it.

However, I don't really understand why this kind of argument is used as a criticism of the 2016 MBP, given the context. The new MBP doesn't do anything different really. It follows the line of reasoning that Apple has been promoting since at least a decade, if not longer. All points that you are making equally apply to any MBP ever produced by Apple, maybe even more so.

Fair enough. I was okay with rMBP because it presented a strong case for itself. The retina display was a massive upgrade, as were the SSD speeds and the overall design. It didn't feel like it sacrificed performance with its new form factor. However this time around it seems like performance and usability has clearly taken a back seat.

Its a cool laptop, super compact and powerful for its size, but is also lacking in features and performance (while costing even more than ever). I think its reached the point where its impacting the pro experience too much. Thats why I consider it to be more of an expensive air model than a pro model.

I'm just bitter about it because I really wanted a computer to be excited about. It also feels like a tipping point for me, one that shows that apple is focusing on the "luxury" experience (expensive computers that "just work" for people with the means to afford them). I was okay with the Apple tax due to the great customer service, but this refresh really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Needing to spend over $3000 for a laptop with a r460, 16gb, and a 1tb ssd in 2016 just seems like a bad idea.