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pdutta2000

macrumors regular
Jun 4, 2008
157
0
I agree with the OP to an extent. I think it comes down to a general boredom with what Apple is focusing on. Everything for the last few years has been hardware related (thinner, smaller, faster) while the software has suffered. Siri and Maps were not innovative or good. The Google versions were and are still much better experiences. Passbook and Reminders are still just ok. Is that what Apple releases now? Just OK software? Hell they're already re-designing Reminders for ios7 because the first version was so bad. I want Apple to focus again on a software initiative like Google is with Google Now. What started as a feature is now becoming a whole new way to interact with devices(Moto X and Google Cards). Instead I'm being told about flat design colors and fingerprint readers. Are those really long term software strategies? I'm done being excited over hardware. My iphone5 and ipad 2 are awesome and are 2 of the best designs in device history. I want to get excited over software again.
 

springsup

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2013
1,227
1,223
Sometimes default isn't the best one. The software keyboard on iOS certainly is not the best one. I have came across many good keyboard on Android, it is frustrating to not have those software keyboards. I don't really see how changing software keyboard will dramatically impact overall user experience. This has been long requested features and lots of people jailbreak for changing keyboard.

If the default keyboard sucks, the answer is to make it better, not to replace it with a third-party keyboard you have to find and download yourself.

Let's say the Thai keyboard is really rubbish; does Apple expect every user in Thailand to buy an iPhone and then discover and download the best keyboard for themselves? That would be really lazy and incredibly poor customer service. They're paying the same money (probably more, in fact) than you or me; they deserve the same high level of service.

Basically, what that does is say: "you don't like the keyboard? Oh well, it's your fault for not downloading keyboard XYZ from the AppStore!" It puts the responsibility to find the best keyboard with the customer, when really that's Apple's job.

Well, there is fundamental difference between our opinion. PDF is just one example. If I came a cross online .mp4 file and I want to save it. There is no way to do it, because you can save this mp4 file to any apps, at least for now. Other example is that, if I want to share a picture on some site other than Facebook, Twitter or Weibo, I need do extra steps. I think when it comes to share or action, it might as well show all app seems appropriate, not just Apple pre-build one.

What happens when you want to share into different service provider beside Facebook, Twitter or Weibo. Certainly I know quite a few. Then I need to open the application then to write a post. I don't think it should be this way.

Dropbox and GoodReader are not Apple "pre-built" Apps. GoodReader actually lets you download any file using a bookmarklet (or by adding a 'g' to the URL - e.g. 'ghttp://....').

Apps that declare that they can take MP4 files would, (I assume) be able to open the MP4 file from Safari, just like PDFs. If Google+ wanted to add support for importing any type of file, they could do using the existing SDK. Google have decided that attachment sharing isn't something they want to support on iOS, don't ask me why.

As for the other sharing services, I don't know what Apple's plan is for that. They obviously can't scale adding every service individually, and they've turned away from the obvious answer of building a pluggable API (maybe due to privacy concerns? user experience? money? who knows?)

File system has its own advantages. I rather have my file saved to a centralized location than have files saved in different apps separately. This not only introduce file duplication issue, but sometime you might nor remember where you saved a file.

If Apple feel file system isn't e optimized way but yet not know what is a better way, they it should keep file system until it figures out,

And I really can't see how file system is default bad given almost all major mobile OS supports file system.

The reason everyone else ships a traditional filesystem is because everyone else is lazy.

It would be easy for Apple to ship a traditional filesystem. It's a lot harder for them to actually approach the problem and to try and tackle it.

There are some decisions you can't just roll-back. If Apple exposes more of the filesystem to other Apps, it needs to maintain that functionality for the foreseeable future or break compatibility. You can't just introduce an unrestricted filesystem one year, then next year tell everybody that it was only temporary, but now the problem is solved and they have to re-code their apps entirely using a totally different system with a whole different set of permissions. Nobody will do it; they'll just use the less secured method instead. Lots of Apps wouldn't even be possible to convert.

You can't turn security on later. It's latched; once you lower security and developers code take advantage of the greater permissions, you can't raise the level again easily. Otherwise you end up like this:

uac_permission.jpg


Well, I found a jailbreak app solves the problem. But again, it wish this can be changed. We should not have sync our iPad every time we download a new song. It is very annoying to me.

iTunes Match
 

mirzank

macrumors regular
Apr 15, 2008
225
2
Ultimately the ops opinion and wants and needs from ios are irreconcilable with the apple way. It's that simple.

The op, and others that want these features, are outliers. Apple designs it's products for the masses, despite te hipster appeal. And the way it's designed mos users don't care about file systems, third party apps to open stuff, sending 20 email recipients 15 PDF documents all in one email, etc. these are outlier cases and for apple to abandon its security and stability that everybody has to suffer, for the needs of the few, would be foolish.

What you're looking for op is android. as has been suggested before. So my question is, why ios? Is it because apple hardware is better? The software is more stable? The apps are nicer? Answer "WHY" and combine with fact that you're still an ios user paying apple money you'll realize you're not giving apple any incentive to change if you don't speak with your money. And all these tradeoffs you're suggesting aren't even worth it to you, so you stick around.
 

SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
469
0
If the default keyboard sucks, the answer is to make it better, not to replace it with a third-party keyboard you have to find and download yourself.

Let's say the Thai keyboard is really rubbish; does Apple expect every user in Thailand to buy an iPhone and then discover and download the best keyboard for themselves? That would be really lazy and incredibly poor customer service. They're paying the same money (probably more, in fact) than you or me; they deserve the same high level of service.


Basically, what that does is say: "you don't like the keyboard? Oh well, it's your fault for not downloading keyboard XYZ from the AppStore!" It puts the responsibility to find the best keyboard with the customer, when really that's Apple's job.

The problem is Apple did not make the keyboard any better. For third party keyboard, they have small focus, that is make the keyboard better. Most if them include auto update dictionary, popular words, ten key keyboard. Ten key keyboard is extremely useful on small devices such as iPhone. Now you get what I am saying. Almost all other platform enable users changes default software keyboards, do you hear anyone complaining about that? If a customer doesn't like one aspect of the OS, customers will change and do research by themselves. This has nothing to do with custom services.


Dropbox and GoodReader are not Apple "pre-built" Apps. GoodReader actually lets you download any file using a bookmarklet (or by adding a 'g' to the URL - e.g. 'ghttp://....').

Apps that declare that they can take MP4 files would, (I assume) be able to open the MP4 file from Safari, just like PDFs. If Google+ wanted to add support for importing any type of file, they could do using the existing SDK. Google have decided that attachment sharing isn't something they want to support on iOS, don't ask me why.

As for the other sharing services, I don't know what Apple's plan is for that. They obviously can't scale adding every service individually, and they've turned away from the obvious answer of building a pluggable API (maybe due to privacy concerns? user experience? money? who knows?)

That is exactly the problem lays. This method almost certainly preventing inter-app communication. I believe ability for apps communicating each other us one aspect of modern mobile OS.

As for shares, why not just simply just everything seems appropriate in your app library. See picture below:

Screenshot_2013-08-06-00-13-00_zpseaf42b46.png




The reason everyone else ships a traditional filesystem is because everyone else is lazy.

It would be easy for Apple to ship a traditional filesystem. It's a lot harder for them to actually approach the problem and to try and tackle it.

There are some decisions you can't just roll-back. If Apple exposes more of the filesystem to other Apps, it needs to maintain that functionality for the foreseeable future or break compatibility. You can't just introduce an unrestricted filesystem one year, then next year tell everybody that it was only temporary, but now the problem is solved and they have to re-code their apps entirely using a totally different system with a whole different set of permissions. Nobody will do it; they'll just use the less secured method instead. Lots of Apps wouldn't even be possible to convert.

You can't turn security on later. It's latched; once you lower security and developers code take advantage of the greater permissions, you can't raise the level again easily. Otherwise you end up like this:

Image



iTunes Match

I don't know how many people will mess up their phone with a file browser, but you can certainly restrict users messing with system files. Security is not a reason for not implementing a file browser. iOS does have file system, it just does not have a file browser. Without file browser, it complicate simple tasks by tenfolds. You can constantly relying on other app. For example, you need app just to write an email with multiple PDF document. That is really silly if you ask me. Users should not have constantly figuring out which app to open a file and remembering which app did they saved to. If you have more than one PDF readers on your iOS, then you need to remember which app were you using for one particular file.

Also for every other platform, have you ever heard someone messed up their phone just because of the file browser?

----------

Ultimately the ops opinion and wants and needs from ios are irreconcilable with the apple way. It's that simple.

The op, and others that want these features, are outliers. Apple designs it's products for the masses, despite te hipster appeal. And the way it's designed mos users don't care about file systems, third party apps to open stuff, sending 20 email recipients 15 PDF documents all in one email, etc. these are outlier cases and for apple to abandon its security and stability that everybody has to suffer, for the needs of the few, would be foolish.

What you're looking for op is android. as has been suggested before. So my question is, why ios? Is it because apple hardware is better? The software is more stable? The apps are nicer? Answer "WHY" and combine with fact that you're still an ios user paying apple money you'll realize you're not giving apple any incentive to change if you don't speak with your money. And all these tradeoffs you're suggesting aren't even worth it to you, so you stick around.

No, we are not outlier. Those features have been long requested. You will see those on wish list almost every generation of OS.

Sending multiple PDF on one email isn't that uncommon. In fact you do that all the time on your computer. A simple case, students need send multiple files for their project to professor or you are emailing your research paper alone with multiple facts sheets or you send multiple files to your lawyer.

Unable to send multiple files on a single email is result of lack of file browser. And I do not believe these features are huge security risk.

Also switching platform isn't simple. If it was that simple, you won't have Windows domination or Google monopoly on search market. Lots of user have spend lots of money one one platform or some apps simply isn't available on Android, for whatever the reason, they will stick with iOS.

But for me, I could switch to Android. And I already done so for my phone as I replaced iPhone 4S with Nexus 4. I am also considering striving to Nexus 7 2nd gen. But Android doesn't have many tablet optimized apps
 
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mac00l

macrumors 6502
May 3, 2011
266
0
Tell me how to simply Reply to an email that has about 10 or 12 recipients and add an attachment, or better yet, multiple attachments.

That is the problem with not having a file system.

A file system doesn't have to be something complicated. It could be something as simple as one folder named "downloads". That would be much less complicated than the mess that sandboxing becomes.

Mailbox + Dropbox.

You're welcome.
 

mac00l

macrumors 6502
May 3, 2011
266
0
2 apps just to send email with multiple attachment, how great is that. If this is the Post-PC device, then it is rather sad.

I feel your pain. On the bright side the mailbox function to remember later an email makes it "simpler" to get to a computer and reply to an email with data required not available at the spot.

On the other hand I don't believe that the fact of needing 2 apps is cumbersome because they seemly integrate making it work as a single app.

Lastly but not least important I believe that the cloud is maturing really fast (not iCloud tho) and the need of a filesystem is going to be neglected by the cloud itself.

Instead of a filesystem, what Apple needs to do, is to open their APIs in order to let some apps to function as a true filesystem. As of now you can not add anything to Dropbox from an iPhone, you are limited to what you already have in there. Once Dropbox have that kind of access that problem would be solved.
 

SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
469
0
I feel your pain. On the bright side the mailbox function to remember later an email makes it "simpler" to get to a computer and reply to an email with data required not available at the spot.

On the other hand I don't believe that the fact of needing 2 apps is cumbersome because they seemly integrate making it work as a single app.

Lastly but not least important I believe that the cloud is maturing really fast (not iCloud tho) and the need of a filesystem is going to be neglected by the cloud itself.

Instead of a filesystem, what Apple needs to do, is to open their APIs in order to let some apps to function as a true filesystem. As of now you can not add anything to Dropbox from an iPhone, you are limited to what you already have in there. Once Dropbox have that kind of access that problem would be solved.

True...I am just getting tired of these extra steps to complete one simple thing. What great about file system is just you open up email app, choose whatever file you want to use, then send. It already being done with picture. Why not just a simple file app, then you can send email with ease?

For cloud, I think it is getting there. But data cost is still huge. I mean, you are paying $60 Canadian just to get 500MB. I am lucky to get 6GB data for $55, but still relative small if you compare with home broadband network. More often we are dealing with files with many megabyte of size, it adds up. Not everyone can get unlimited data plan. Until data cost goes done, I still say cloud is backup plan
 

Tander

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2011
676
1
Johannesburg, South Africa
So then stop bitching and go to Android. Why tell a bunch of people on the Internet about how you don't like iOS?
I doubt many of us gives a rats ass how you feel about it?

First, don't get me wrong. iOS 7 is a beautiful OS beside the icons. Beta 4 is stable enough, although it still lags on the "trial product" iPad 3. Yes, after arguing with bunch of people, I still think iPad 3 is a "test product" from Apple. I am deeply regret of buying iPad 3.

Now, let's go back to main topic.

For years, iOS has been looked the same. Yes, iOS 7 has new look, but it is still the same old thing. Still pages and pages of icon , still no basics file system, apps still can't communicate well, still the same old way of operating the system.

Using iOS for me is like having a mother beside you and you can only do way she approves. She thinks you are an idiot and you can think. She is limiting you because she is afraid you might catch a virus or something.

1. Where is my ability to change default keyboard? For most English speakers, default English keyboard maybe OK for you, but after use Swype, you can't go back. Chinese keyboard is still lag, per-loaded word banks are lacking. There are bunch of gold Chinese, Japanese, Korean keyboard out there, but you can't use it unless you jailbreak.

2. If I open a PDF attachment, I can only open this PDF with Apple approved Apps, no other. I can't share this PDF to google plus or some other app not I can download the attachment to download folder.

3. I don't know the reason of not having file system. Majority of mobile OS from Android to Windows, from Windows to BlackBerry all have file system. It is huge inconvenient and annoying,

4. After 6 years, apps still cannot communicate each other. If I want to share a link on Google Plus what do I do? I need copy the link, to back to home screen, find Google Plus, open Google a plus, then post. That is hugely annoying. If I come across a video and I want to download this video, what do I do? I either go grad a browser that allow me download or I can't download at all. Even if I download a browser and download that video, I still cannot play it with my favourite player. It is still impossible to import music file directly from one app or default music app. Now you get what I am saying.

5. The most annoying thing is that all those annoyances can be and should be solved long time ago. All these annoyances can be solved by jailbreak, but tat's require you jailbreak.

I don't know how long before I give up iOS, I already switch from iPhone 4S to Nexus 4. The main reason for me keeping iPad is the 4:3 screen and tablet Apps. But the annoyances are truly annoying.
 

mac00l

macrumors 6502
May 3, 2011
266
0
True...I am just getting tired of these extra steps to complete one simple thing. What great about file system is just you open up email app, choose whatever file you want to use, then send. It already being done with picture. Why not just a simple file app, then you can send email with ease?

For cloud, I think it is getting there. But data cost is still huge. I mean, you are paying $60 Canadian just to get 500MB. I am lucky to get 6GB data for $55, but still relative small if you compare with home broadband network. More often we are dealing with files with many megabyte of size, it adds up. Not everyone can get unlimited data plan. Until data cost goes done, I still say cloud is backup plan

Quite the opposite.

By using the cloud you'll end up using less data. You see, with a filesystem you need to download the data to your device, and then upload it to the email server in order to be sent. For a 10MB file you'll use 20MB (10 down, 10 up)

When the cloud is mature enough. You'll be able to send the file you need from the webpage (server) you are fetching your file, to your personal cloud storage. Your data is only used to manage metadata, not the file itself, because the file is never downloaded to your device. Then when you send it, again you are only telling your email server where from to fetch the file to attach it. The metadata involved never exceeds a couple of KBs.

The cloud is not quite there yet. But really, really close.
 

rikscha

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2010
800
420
London
iOS isn't for everyone, you don't have to come here and try to justify it with us. If you no longer like iOS, then switch lol. IMO, the whole share app thing is meh. The apps that apple approve and their native apps work fine for me. I love the keyboard(if it ain't broke don't fix it), and the reason for a file system browser is to edit files, the average consumer doesn't need, nor do they know what to do with it. iOS is toward the average consumer, you on the other hand sound as if your power user. Use android, thats made for power users. As a user of both, you'll love it.

He is not a power user. He is accustomed to use technology in a way it was used 10 years ago and can't understand why the iOS way is the right way. I highly doubt this person legally installed iOS 7 or is willing to pay for apps. Completly blinded by features that no one needs.
 

robjulo

Suspended
Jul 16, 2010
1,623
3,159
Mailbox + Dropbox.

You're welcome.

Mailbox "currently for gmail only".

So now I can use two other apps, create an email, send that email to my exchange account and then forward that email from my exchange account.

OR, Apple could allow "insert file" just like they do for pictures in video. It makes no sense to treat documents different than you treat photos and video.
 
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JGRE

macrumors 65816
Oct 10, 2011
1,012
664
Dutch Mountains
This belongs in the Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices forum. iOS 7 is a beta, I don't see how you can expect it to perform like a finished product because it's not.

----------



There are tons of PDF reading apps in the App Store, namely GoodReader, Adobe Reader, iBooks, and many more.

Even via dropbox (non-approved as far as I know) you can view and share all day long.

----------

3. I don't know the reason of not having file system. Majority of mobile OS from Android to Windows, from Windows to BlackBerry all have file system. It is huge inconvenient and annoying,

What do you mean with a file system? IOS has a file system otherwise it could not oparate. I guess you mean an explorer view of your directories: Solution "iExplorer". But you will only use it once in a year.
 

Gutwrench

Suspended
Jan 2, 2011
4,603
10,530
The problem is Apple did not make the keyboard any better. For third party keyboard, they have small focus, that is make the keyboard better. Most if them include auto update dictionary, popular words, ten key keyboard. Ten key keyboard is extremely useful on small devices such as iPhone. Now you get what I am saying. Almost all other platform enable users changes default software keyboards, do you hear anyone complaining about that? If a customer doesn't like one aspect of the OS, customers will change and do research by themselves. This has nothing to do with custom services.

That is exactly the problem lays. This method almost certainly preventing inter-app communication. I believe ability for apps communicating each other us one aspect of modern mobile OS.

As for shares, why not just simply just everything seems appropriate in your app library. See picture below:

Image

When it come to Chinese keyboard I understand your frustration. We also use WeChat and QQ. It's often easier to send voice messages instead of trying to type. We wish Apple would improve here. Siri is little use in Mandarin and no use in English (that's not completely Siri's fault due to accents).
 

Gogurt48

macrumors 6502a
Jun 17, 2013
663
1
What do you mean with a file system? IOS has a file system otherwise it could not oparate. I guess you mean an explorer view of your directories: Solution "iExplorer". But you will only use it once in a year.

I took a look at iExplorer in the App Store. It's the only app I've ever seen where every single review is one star.
 

Nanasaki

macrumors 6502
Oct 26, 2010
320
0
Even via dropbox (non-approved as far as I know) you can view and share all day long.

----------



What do you mean with a file system? IOS has a file system otherwise it could not oparate. I guess you mean an explorer view of your directories: Solution "iExplorer". But you will only use it once in a year.

Yes... I think I need rephrase my post a bit...but anyway, a those file browsers have one common thing is that they cannot access root directory, this makes things really complicated. Though, vanilla android doesn't include a file browser also, gmail cannot attach any file beside pictures and musics, however files explorer app in Android can access root directory, from there you can send multiple attachment with ease.

Screenshot_2013-08-06-09-06-22_zpsb334ee24.png


----------

He is not a power user. He is accustomed to use technology in a way it was used 10 years ago and can't understand why the iOS way is the right way. I highly doubt this person legally installed iOS 7 or is willing to pay for apps. Completly blinded by features that no one needs.

If you think these features are not useful, it doesn't mean others don't need it. If no one need these features, they no one will request these. However, these are most requested features for years. If you don't believe, just look at wish list from every literation of iOS...
 

SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
469
0
When it come to Chinese keyboard I understand your frustration. We also use WeChat and QQ. It's often easier to send voice messages instead of trying to type. We wish Apple would improve here. Siri is little use in Mandarin and no use in English (that's not completely Siri's fault due to accents).

Well...LOL... I know the voice messaging function included in WeChat and QQ. Aren't these two app from same company? Anyway...voice messaging completely fall apart in noisy environment. Anyway... I need ten key keyboard (九宫格)
 

Gutwrench

Suspended
Jan 2, 2011
4,603
10,530
Well...LOL... I know the voice messaging function included in WeChat and QQ. Aren't these two app from same company? Anyway...voice messaging completely fall apart in noisy environment. Anyway... I need ten key keyboard (九宫格)

Agree with you. The add on we use on MBA is pretty good. Still waiting for improved international iOS features.

Off topic detail: glad for FaceTime. My wife is headed back to China from US (mid $900 plus free extra bag) for September and October. She's shopping for friends and family using FaceTime and very helpful.
 
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Skika

macrumors 68030
Mar 11, 2009
2,999
1,246
To the OP. Watch this video at 0:50:25 and you will understand why iOS doesnt have a filesystem, and probably wont have one.

 

SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
469
0
To the OP. Watch this video at 0:50:25 and you will understand why iOS doesnt have a filesystem, and probably wont have one.

YouTube: video

Well...the video is currently unavailable.... I will try it on my computer when I get back home.
 

CausticPuppy

macrumors 68000
May 1, 2012
1,536
68
I don't know about you. But when I worked at computer store, people don't ask specifically where is file browser, but hey ask where is Windows explorer or such. The way they ask might not directly to file browser, but they need to know where are their files or how to they access your files and how to copy files.

When people, especially old people, they are used to operating Windows, they will think the Windows or the Max way if you will.

So essentially, your complaint is that iOS does not work like Windows.
 

robjulo

Suspended
Jul 16, 2010
1,623
3,159
To the OP. Watch this video at 0:50:25 and you will understand why iOS doesnt have a filesystem, and probably wont have one.

YouTube: video

It isn't working but I assume it is the Steve Jobs discussion about the file system. I'm not asking for a full blown file system with access to hierarchies and full level of folders.

I'm asking for documents to be treated the exact same way ios ALREADY treats photos and videos.
 
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