I do not understand the 'notch' angst at all.

[inscrewtable]

Just because you say something is brilliant and innovative that doesn’t make it brilliant and innovative.

In many situations Apple isn’t the first but is the first to do it right.

This isn’t one of those situations.

This is right up there with removing the headphone jack and putting the lightning port underneath the Magic Mouse.

It is most definitely innovative because no one else has done it that is the very definition of innovative, you might think it's a bad innovation I think it's a good innovation.

Back to the headphone jack are we, I notice there was a howl of whinging over that but none of the fawning reviews of the new Pixel phone nor the inter webs as a whole suddenly care about it at all, Apple have removed 100 year old technology, shocker.

I've got a magic mouse II about once every three months I need to charge it over night. You charge your phones every night so what is the problem. Oh what if you forget to charge it and you have an urgent job, well I'd say take a 5 minute coffee break and you'll have enough charge to last the end of the day. And being underneath the mouse it's not prone to dust.

We can thank sweet baby jesus that you do not design our products.

 

[greeley]

how is it useful when they told app develops not to put anything in the ears.....

like i said if the sensors were on the side they could use the middle for notifications or something but the current implementation is horrible.

As it is people are complaining that the phone is less wide than the Plus, now you have the ears not counting as usable space.


So folding the display under itself so the display drivers and controllers no longer require a full on chin bezel to be on the device isn’t innovative?

except Apple claims its next thing will be a fold able screen, like Samsung and LG have been working on for years.

so i wouldnt say it was innovative. these manufactures all work on the same things they just go about it different ways

the problem is usually that samsung and friends just swing at everything and hope they get one thing right. while apple usually only releases a few things at once and only after they have fine tuned it.

 

[Ralfi]

That's OK if you live in a magic world of fairies and pixie dust but it will never be possible to place the entire array of sensors, including flood illuminator, dot projector, IR reader as well as camera underneath a display.

Like it or not, it's there.

Never be possible?

That's a bit closed-minded don't you think? Never?

Severely underestimating technological advances.

 

[iSayBoourns]

how is it useful when they told app develops not to put anything in the ears.....

like i said if the sensors were on the side they could use the middle for notifications or something but the current implementation is horrible.

As it is people are complaining that the phone is less wide than the Plus, now you have the ears not counting as usable space.

It’s useful to apps because now the full status bar doesn’t take up the top portion of their app. Which in turn allows more content within the app to be shown at once.

If the sensors were on the sides as you suggest, then the display itself would not extend to all 4 corners. You then would also have people complaining about TWO notches.

People who complain about it not being as wide than a Plus are ridiculous. It’s not meant to be as wide, it’s a smaller device. People don’t complain the 6/7/8 are not as wide as the 6+/7+/8+. Because they know it’s a smaller device, but yet somehow hold the X to a different standard?

The ears aren’t supposed to be “usable” space. They are extended screen to move the status info off the usable screen. The full screen if you include the ears is a 19.5:9 ratio. Below the “notch” and down is a 18.5:9 ratio. Which is the same ratio as all other “bezel less” phones. The ears and notch don’t effect the usable screen in any negative way. The ears give you a gain within the usable screen one would otherwise have had the top been a “normal” full on forehead bezel.
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That's OK if you live in a magic world of fairies and pixie dust but it will never be possible to place the entire array of sensors, including flood illuminator, dot projector, IR reader as well as camera underneath a display.

To be fair, Apple has patents for such technology, and would assume they are actively in R&D. Now, not everything they patent comes to life in a product. Many patents and ideas get scrapped. It’s possible 2-3+ years they figure it out and in a way that can be reliable and mass produced.

So not entirely out of the question. But still far away if it even can become a thing.

 

[inscrewtable]

Never be possible?

That's a bit closed-minded don't you think? Never?

Severely underestimating technological advances.

Look Ralfi I understand that you've just moved into trolling mode, but it was you who complained that this thread had deteriorated although it began well. That's a bit like Donald Trump complaining that the Presidency has lost some it it's integrity during the recent past. So why ruin all the good posts with silliness?

 

[greeley]

It’s useful to apps because now the full status bar doesn’t take up the top portion of their app. Which in turn allows more content within the app to be shown at once.
View attachment 726482

If the sensors were on the sides as you suggest, then the display itself would not extend to all 4 corners. You then would also have people complaining about TWO notches.

People who complain about it not being as wide than a Plus are ridiculous. It’s not meant to be as wide, it’s a smaller device. People don’t complain the 6/7/8 are not as wide as the 6+/7+/8+. Because they know it’s a smaller device, but yet somehow hold the X to a different standard?

The ears aren’t supposed to be “usable” space. They are extended screen to move the status info off the usable screen. The full screen if you include the ears is a 19.5:9 ratio. Below the “notch” and down is a 18.5:9 ratio. Which is the same ratio as all other “bezel less” phones. The ears and notch don’t effect the usable screen in any negative way. The ears give you a gain within the usable screen one would otherwise have had the top been a “normal” full on forehead bezel.

i might be remembering wrong but they said you cant have the time or anything in the ears when making apps, so its not useful to apps.

i dont think youre understanding the complaint, Apple has told devs they can not have status info there. the only time youre "gaining" is on the home screen. Not to mention if you look at the devs for jailbroken apps you can have all kinds of way to have the status info only appear when you want it (double tap to call it, or swipe down etc).

the notch is purely aesthetic, they should have left the whole thing non screen. with a black front you hardly notice anyways (from my experience with an s8). the big thing is they removed a lot of dead space in the top/bottom and thats a win.

as far the wideness, im not agreeing with them. i have already gotten use to thin and tall phones since owning an S8 Plus. i think the aspect ratio is great as long as apple can do what samsung did to make the content fit to the edges in landscape mode. the phone has never been easier to hold with it being less wide. and the chin/forehead being gone on the iphone will be a nice change of pace.

 

[Ralfi]

Look Ralfi I understand that you've just moved into trolling mode, but it was you who complained that this thread had deteriorated although it began well. That's a bit like Donald Trump complaining that the Presidency has lost some it it's integrity during the recent past. So why ruin all the good posts with silliness?

Mate, that wasn't directed at you. It was obviously aimed at many who tend to derail threads with good intentions, which seemed like what had happened skimming over a few recent posts.

Anyway, i'm over that & have been posting on topic since that reply...

I stand by my point - it's not impossible to place a sensor/camera array under usable screen area. I think we will see full screen, bezel-free mobile devices in our life time.

 

[mrklaw]

It makes me wonder why Apple allows video to enter the "ears" when viewing in landscape.

If they just blacked it out... you wouldn't have anything leaking into those offending areas.

I'm actually fine with the clock and battery info up in the ears in portrait.

I honestly don't watch very much video on my phone anyway. And if I do... it's a quick Youtube clip that is 16x9. Those will fit with no problems.

Sidenote: it kills me to see people watching 16x9 videos on their phones... IN PORTRAIT

I'm thinking "turn your phone sideways... it will be much better!"

They probably just adapted their normal video player. When playing normally it wont’ get cropped at all. When you tap to zoom,it fills the screen, chopping off the top and bottom. On X it does the same and you get a bit chopped off at the side.

I hope they adapt that to give a third option to zoom but not past the notch (notch is blacked out when watching video at standard size). This would allow you to use most of the extra width for better viewing of wide aspect ratio content, but without cropping any of the edge. That would be my preferred viewing option. But I might still use the full zoom because with 2.35:1 content the image will be a lot bigger than having black bars all around.
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Why must I adjust a brand new phone by shrinking a video because I may miss something obstructed by the notch. Why must I re-adjust a page because I zoomed in too far and has cut out a few letters or words. Why must I accommodate almost everything I do because the notch is blocking a view. This is to those who don’t UNDERSTAND viewer experience!

You’re not shrinking video. Default is like it is on normal iPhone - 16:9 window. That notch is only when you zoom in. And on Iphone that also chops off a chunk of the video too.

 

[iSayBoourns]

i might be remembering wrong but they said you cant have the time or anything in the ears when making apps, so its not useful to apps.

i dont think youre understanding the complaint, Apple has told devs they can not have status info there. the only time youre "gaining" is on the home screen. Not to mention if you look at the devs for jailbroken apps you can have all kinds of way to have the status info only appear when you want it (double tap to call it, or swipe down etc).

Ummm I don’t think you understand the guidelines. You’re right apps can’t put anything in the ears. Because they are reserved for status bar info (you know...time, wifi, Bluetooth, cellular signal, battery, and so on) So no, the home screen isn’t the only time you’re “gaining”. Currently status bar info is at the top of the usable screen. iPhone X moves that info to the ears, giving more space in the usable screen for apps.

 

[mrklaw]

Ummm I don’t think you understand the guidelines. You’re right apps can’t put anything in the ears. Because they are reserved for status bar info (you know...time, wifi, Bluetooth, cellular signal, battery, and so on) So no, the home screen isn’t the only time you’re “gaining”. Currently status bar info is at the top of the usable screen. iPhone X moves that info to the ears, giving more space in the usable screen for apps.

This is correct. Except in certain circumstances (games, video playback) where you may want full screen unobstructed, Apple require you to have the status bar visible in your app.

Just think of the space either side of the notch as the status bar. Same behaviour as on normal Iphone - most apps will have the status visible, and with the same background image/colour as the app(which will give the impression of that edge to edge - or at least corner to corner - display). If you have an app that currently turns the status bar off then you can do the same on X, at which point it’ll just look black like a bezel.

 

[greeley]

Ummm I don’t think you understand the guidelines. You’re right apps can’t put anything in the ears. Because they are reserved for status bar info (you know...time, wifi, Bluetooth, cellular signal, battery, and so on) So no, the home screen isn’t the only time you’re “gaining”. Currently status bar info is at the top of the usable screen. iPhone X moves that info to the ears, giving more space in the usable screen for apps.

i was talking about the status bar info, thats the "gain".

reserved just means no new content can place there, what app developers do though is edit the area to make it fit the app so it doesnt kill the experience. IE the top of your usable area has a blue background, the dev would then make the background behind the status info blue.

but apple is saying they cant even do that, so youre relying on apple playing nice with you app...

 

[iSayBoourns]

This is correct. Except in certain circumstances (games, video playback) where you may want full screen unobstructed, Apple require you to have the status bar visible in your app.

Just think of the space either side of the notch as the status bar. Same behaviour as on normal Iphone - most apps will have the status visible, and with the same background image/colour as the app(which will give the impression of that edge to edge - or at least corner to corner - display). If you have an app that currently turns the status bar off then you can do the same on X, at which point it’ll just look black like a bezel.

You’re talking about landscape orientation though. I’m talking about portrait orientation, where the majority of content on a smartphone is viewed at.

i was talking about the status bar info, thats the "gain".

reserved just means no new content can place there, what app developers do though is edit the area to make it fit the app so it doesnt kill the experience. IE the top of your usable area has a blue background, the dev would then make the background behind the status info blue.

but apple is saying they cant even do that, so youre relying on apple playing nice with you app...

Ok. In your screenshot. Move that status bar info up, off the app into where the ears would be (treat the top edge of that screenshot as the bottom of the notch.) It allows for the rest of the app to also then shift up. Allowing more to be shown. It may not be much, but it’s the fact that the ears take that status bar info off the apps screen.

 

[inscrewtable]

I stand by my point - it's not impossible to place a sensor/camera array under usable screen area.

It's not really a 'point' is it, it's just some speculation that some time in the future we will probably see something that is currently so impossible that even putting a fingerprint scanner under the display seems to have eluded the technological wizardry of Samsung, never mind about putting a camera under the screen.

 

[greeley]

my point was if the top of the app's edge is blue, the ears better be blue too.

lets saying im watching a video, if the ears arent black then they'll be distracting.

as far as shifting up, im on a 4.7 screen lol the X cant really do worse than that so im good. im just happy i can have more real estate without the bulkiness of the Plus models.

 

[iSayBoourns]

my point was if the top of the app's edge is blue, the ears better be blue too.

lets saying im watching a video, if the ears arent black then they'll be distracting.

as far as shifting up, im on a 4.7 screen lol the X cant really do worse than that so im good. im just happy i can have more real estate without the bulkiness of the Plus models.

The ears will be blue. The colour will extend up (shown in various other app example screenshots people have posted around using the simulation in Xcode.)

When you watch video at its proper aspect ratio the ears will be blacked out. Not if you zoom in though.

 

[Ralfi]

It's not really a 'point' is it, it's just some speculation that some time in the future we will probably see something that is currently so impossible that even putting a fingerprint scanner under the display seems to have eluded the technological wizardry of Samsung, never mind about putting a camera under the screen.

Ok, Mr. Technicality.

It's impossible....now. But I don't think it'll be impossible for ever, as you stated.

Let's you & I be thankful you're not working in development for Apple, Samsung etc.

 

[inscrewtable]

I think that the premise of this thread has well and truly been 'proved', that the kerfuffle that has set the world ablaze about the so called 'notch' is a tempest in a thimble. It's just that some people don't like it, but there's no reason beyond that, and someone not liking something for no reason other than they don't like something is not exactly earth shattering.

 

[greeley]

The ears will be blue. The colour will extend up (shown in various other app example screenshots people have posted around using the simulation in Xcode.)

When you watch video at its proper aspect ratio the ears will be blacked out. Not if you zoom in though.

any links?
only reason i brought it up was because there was people claiming the opposite.

like i said i might not like it but i'll deal with the notch in exchange for faceid if it works.

 

[inscrewtable]

Let's you & I be thankful you're not working in development for Apple, Samsung etc.

For a camera to work under the screen and for a camera which captures light in the visible wavelengths which it must, and then you factor in the screen is also operating in visible wavelengths, then if a screen has colour on it then it cannot be transparent too. I think it's safe to say that it will never come to pass ever that an object can both have a solid colour and at the same time be completely transparent, this is not a technological problem it's an ontological impossibility. Something cannot be and not be at the same time.
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any links?
only reason i brought it up was because there was people claiming the opposite.

like i said i might not like it but i'll deal with the notch in exchange for faceid if it works.

Not sure if you've seen this. https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface-guidelines/overview/iphone-x/

btw the 'notch' has nothing to do with Face ID. The notch is only to do with making the area around the sensors more useful.

 

[iSayBoourns]

any links?
only reason i brought it up was because there was people claiming the opposite.

like i said i might not like it but i'll deal with the notch in exchange for faceid if it works.

Here’s an example directly from the developers of Carrot Weather app.

https://twitter.com/carrot_app/status/908029622243209223

 

[greeley]

i have but you said you saw actual apps running in xcode.

if there was no face id sensors then they would not have the notch. so yes it has everything to do with it.. the iphone 8 doesnt have extra sensors therefore it doesnt have a notch

thx Boourns, is the an apple made app tho? or independent devloper? (either way it looks nice!)

 

[Mildredop]

For all those people who really do not understand the notch concept, let me explain why I think (notice I say 'I think' because unlike many other I do not claim to know Apple's mind) that Apple are good with the notch and why I think it's a good idea to have the notch rather than to have the whole top part as a bezel.

Notice how the Galaxy phone not only has a bezel at the top but they have one at the bottom too. Apple have effectively provided a full screen phone even with the notch in a manner of speaking. You see by having the 'ears' rather than a bezel there is a psychological brain effect where the brain treats the notch as if it is covering up screen not replacing screen. This is a well known effect that is used in many optical illusions.

Let me show you an example. Here is a photo of a woman in a strapless bikini, but if I cover up the bikini with two blocks, it has the weird effect of appearing as if the woman is completely nude. Even if you see the bikini alternating. See for yourself. This is what I believe is the thinking behind Apple's decision, and like the way that Apple moved the keyboard up towards the screen when everyone else thought that the obvious place was away from the screen and closer to the user, but once they saw how it worked, it became the default way.

This is what will happen with the notch. Everyone will be doing that, which is going to be hilarious given all the hate.

This is all justifying the notch. Every TV screen, computer screen, phone screen etc etc is straight-sided.

Imagine if Apple came out with a new imaging chip that produced triangular photos. Regardless of how great the quality of the image, it would just go against all convention.

The notch is the same. Only people who truly and blindly love Apple see the notch as an acceptable addition.

 

[Ralfi]

For a camera to work under the screen and for a camera which captures light in the visible wavelengths which it must, and then you factor in the screen is also operating in visible wavelengths, then if a screen has colour on it then it cannot be transparent too. I think it's safe to say that it will never come to pass ever that an object can both have a solid colour and at the same time be completely transparent, this is not a technological problem it's an ontological impossibility. Something cannot be and not be at the same time.

Yeah, what I'm thinking is that they won't be in use at the same time.

When the camera/sensors are needed, the area in which they're house will be exposed, so they can be used sans interference from what was previously taking up that area.

In other words, the area of the screen where the camera/sensor array are hiding will become transparent when their functions are called upon.

Obviously just a theory...

 

[iSayBoourns]

thx Boourns, is the an apple made app tho? or independent devloper? (either way it looks nice!)

It’s the Carrot Weather app. 3rd party developer of a very popular weather app for a very long time now.

 

[mrklaw]

i have but you said you saw actual apps running in xcode.

if there was no face id sensors then they would not have the notch. so yes it has everything to do with it.. the iphone 8 doesnt have extra sensors therefore it doesnt have a notch

thx Boourns, is the an apple made app tho? or independent devloper? (either way it looks nice!)

Independent developer.

Apple guidelines say specifically to try and avoid blacking out the ears if possible. Developers should extend the background image/colour into the ears just like that example posted. So that’s how it will look in most cases.