I do not understand the 'notch' angst at all.

[Smartass]

more elegant but for Apple it will make it indistinguishable.
so is it bad design or not ?

That is true, but is it practical? is it a good design solution? In my opinion Apple just wanted to differentiate itself from all the other brands no mattter what. I think its a interesting decision, but me personaly, i dont like it that much. I dont like how it protrudes into the screen, but it's not like they even had any more options, its either this notch or a normal bezel. I think a lot of people will use wallpapers that have the top ears colored in black, that'll make a lot of difference and probably change minds of people that have so much to say against the notch. I'll have to see it in person anyways, these are just my initial thoughts based on all the pictures floating around..

 

[inscrewtable]

...also flows around the notch. It doesn’t flow behind it...It’s literally a rectangle shape with one side that has a bump/notch protruding into the area usually preserved for visuals...If you don’t get why it irritates people then you’re not concerned with good design....If it has to be explained its poor design...

First off the only notch is the two notches that cut into the bezel on either side of the screen. The two ears extending from the content area (which is the area under the bezel) are always given a background that matches what ever is in the content area, if it's an app the app background extends in. Usually it's showing status info and if there is wallpaper then that wall paper background will go up into the background of whatever status information is there. If you're watching a movie then this area will be black. But as it's a versatile area Apple give the user the ability to double tap a move to fill the two ears, why anyone would do that I don't know because you would also crop the movie top and bottom. But if you want to do that you can.

I don't think I'll be accepting your idea of good design over Apple's. You call it poor design and you are free to do that, but that doesn't change anything. If you look at the poll I put up more people like the ears than don't like them by a factor of two to one. It only has to be explained to people like you but that's pretty pointless because you keep asking for the same thing to be explained over and over.

 

[Diorama]

My statement is written in plain English and relates to the topic of this thread. Clearly states a specific question relating to the topic of this thread but you want to see a phone with no top or bottom bezel which has nothing to do with the notch.

So what problem does the notch solve again?

It solves the problem of making an edge to edge phone but still needing a space for front sensors. Only Apple has done this.

[doublepost=1508752619][/doublepost]

But go ahead and explain why a good design is a good design lol.

“You’re holding it wrong” lol

Hmm who should I listen to about ‘good design’, Jony Ive or Internet forums poster “eyeseeyou”.

 

[inscrewtable]

i highly doubt that screen tech will get so much better in just one to two years, that Apple will be able to place all those sensors and cameras behind the screen

The camera needs to have a completely transparent lens in front of it or it won't work, the screen in order to be able to see it cannot be transparent. Something cannot be both transparent and not transparent at the same time, the camera and other sensors can only all be put underneath a display in a magic harry potter fairy world. The ears are here to stay because they give you more screen real estate instead of wasting the status info on the content area.

 

[Diorama]

The camera needs to have a completely transparent lens in front of it or it won't work, the screen in order to be able to see it cannot be transparent. Something cannot be both transparent and not transparent at the same time, the camera and other sensors can only all be put underneath a display in a magic harry potter fairy world. The ears are here to stay because they give you more screen real estate instead of wasting the status info on the content area.

Not saying you are wrong, but these are surprisingly easy to see through:

 

[inscrewtable]

... its either this notch or a normal bezel....

A normal bezel would still contain the notch, what you call a normal bezel is a bezel that does not have extra screen on each side.

Riddle me this... if there was a normal bezel straight across nothing would be cutting into the screen. The content area would be whatever it is. So tell me if Apple then adds two ears into the bezel area has that reduced the screen area.
[doublepost=1508758138][/doublepost]

Not saying you are wrong, but these are surprisingly easy to see through:

View attachment 726790

You mean the glasses are easy to see though, that doesn't mean the diodes are easy to see through.
[doublepost=1508758969][/doublepost]

... is it a good design solution? ..

Here's something to think about, Apple put the TouchID on the front of the phone, why? Obviously because it's the best place to put it. And that is where all the other manufacturer put it too because it's obviously the right place.

But then Samsung and others got obsessed with small bezels, this was their focus but their TouchID was in the way so they moved it to the back, they didn't move it to the back because that is a good place they moved it there because they didn't have a better solution.

Apple did not go for tiny bezels like everyone else until they had a better solution about what to do with the TouchID, they did not put it on the back because that is a worse solution not a better solution. Their solution was to leave the bezels as they were until they could develop the technology that replaces TouchID.

That's what good design is, good design includes the entire object, good design doesn't mean make the front of the phone good at the expense of something else. That's the very definition of bad design.

 

[flat five]

Even ignoring the notch and rounded corners, the X's display is slightly smaller than Plus's.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.mehanik99.ru/mons/sizes-5.8-inch-1125x2436-vs-5.5-inch-1080x1920&edit-text=

(original: http://www.mehanik99.ru/mons/sizes-5.8-inch-1125x2436-vs-5.5-inch-1080x1920)

that's inaccurate since the iPhone X, ignoring the notch & corners, is larger than 5.8" diagonal..

the X's diagonal is 5.8586"
the Plus diagonal is 5.4935"

------------------
i have to leave for work soon but as a starting point:

iPhone X screen is 2436-by-1125 pixels at 458 pixels-per-inch..

2436 ÷ 458 = 5.3188" long
1125 ÷ 458 = 2.4563" wide

using a2 + b2 = c2 to get the diagonal..

5.3188 * 5.3188 = 28.2896
2.4563 * 2.4563 = 6.0334

sqrt of (28.2896 + 6.0334) = 5.8586" diagonal

------------------
keep going with the comparison and you'll find the X screen is actually larger than Plus.. (prior to corners/sensor housing removal)

(though-- for the comparison.. might as well quit with the diagonal as it's more work than necessary to arrive back at the area.. just find the length&width of both screens.. then find the area that way )

----
edit--
or, check this :

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...tisfy-plus-users.2075344/page-8#post-25188238

 

[Appleaker]

Considering that if Apple didn't want the 'notch effect' that it was just a matter of not extending the screen up into the bezel and having the status bar take up screen space, if that's what they wanted to do they would have done it, extending the screen into the bezel is more work takes more time because it's not just the engineering but they have to write the software and all the API's that work with the ears.

And to say it's "un-Apple" is frankly bizarre because it's very very Apple to do something that no one thought of and that the whole world thinks is obviously wrong, only to later realise that Apple's way is the only one that makes sense.

The best example of this is the positioning of keyboards on laptops, everyone had the keyboard position closer to the user because that is what seemed to make sense, Apple pushed the keyboard away from the user towards the screen, and suddenly all laptops were made that way because 'it's obvious'. Genuine genius always looks 'obvious' once you see it, but it's only obvious after the fact.

I have never heard such sheepish BS.

 

[inscrewtable]

I have never heard such sheepish BS.

So I'm guessing then that means you agree with the reasoning because otherwise you'd be able to point out the errors. thx

 

[Appleaker]

Based on what evidence do you have that Apple rushed the Notch or iPhone X all together? More specifically, what's considered "Rushed"? I understand you don't appreciate it and you're stating it's very UnApple like. But given the unpredictability with this company, how do you know what the plans will be for the future regardless?

How have you been out of the loop enough to think that the iPhone X wasn’t rushed out for 2017?
[doublepost=1508762970][/doublepost]

So I'm guessing then that means you agree with the reasoning because otherwise you'd be able to point out the errors. thx

No it doesn’t, it means I am not going to waste my time responding to those comments. I’ll point out what you got right, of course they often things that we realise are the best and most obvious way to do it, the keyboard positioning is a good example. That does not in any way mean that the notch is one of those times, it clearly isn’t and Apple would say the same - it is not the future.

 

[inscrewtable]

How have you been out of the loop enough to think that the iPhone X wasn’t rushed out for 2017?

Out of the loop? You mean all the rumours on the inter webs that you assume are true? Like Ming Kuo saying in January this year that Apple is going to put Touch ID under the display? I'm astounded that you are so ready to believe internet rumours that Apple 'rushed the X to market'
[doublepost=1508763254][/doublepost]

How have you been out of the loop enough to think that the iPhone X wasn’t rushed out for 2017?
[doublepost=1508762970][/doublepost]
No it doesn’t, it means I am not going to waste my time responding to those comments.

Well you're responding to this so when you say "No it doesn’t, it means I am not going to waste my time responding to those comments" It's even more obvious that you don't have an answer to what I said about the X. As long as you keep on writing more and more but saying that you won't answer because you won't waste your time then you just sound ridiculous.

It would be faster to refute what I say than spend 3 times as long telling me you don't have time to refute what I say.

I'm done with this madness, see if you can refute what I say and I'll check back in the morning. Ciao.

 

[Appleaker]

Out of the loop? You mean all the rumours on the inter webs that you assume are true? Like Ming Kuo saying in January this year that Apple is going to put Touch ID under the display? I'm astounded that you are so ready to believe internet rumours that Apple 'rushed the X to market'
[doublepost=1508763254][/doublepost]

Well you're responding to this so when you say "No it doesn’t, it means I am not going to waste my time responding to those comments" It's even more obvious that you don't have an answer to what I said about the X. As long as you keep on writing more and more but saying that you won't answer because you won't waste your time then you just sound ridiculous.

It would be faster to refute what I say than spend 3 times as long telling me you don't have time to refute what I say.

I'm done with this madness, see if you can refute what I say and I'll check back in the morning. Ciao.

A) It’s true, if you’re not going to believe the rumors then just take a look at the release date, and after take a look at the stock situation.
B) I said respond to those comments, meaning the ones I thought were ‘sheepish BS’, not the others including your reply to that. I didn’t say ‘respond to your comments’.
Youre right, this thread is full of madness.

 

[flat five]

The notch is unapologetically un-Apple.

not sure what you would describe as 'Apple-like design' but i've seen this notch like shape used over and over again in Apple's design language..
you haven't ?

----
a few i can think of right off the bat...
G5 tower/Mac Pro
Cube
OS X
iPhone (sort of)
[doublepost=1508767076][/doublepost]for starters--
(and i bet there's more.. these are the Apple notches i can think of without even thinking about it)

[doublepost=1508768813][/doublepost]even the freaking Apple logo itself is notched.

 

[eyeseeyou]

That is true, but is it practical? is it a good design solution? In my opinion Apple just wanted to differentiate itself from all the other brands no mattter what. I think its a interesting decision, but me personaly, i dont like it that much. I dont like how it protrudes into the screen, but it's not like they even had any more options, its either this notch or a normal bezel. I think a lot of people will use wallpapers that have the top ears colored in black, that'll make a lot of difference and probably change minds of people that have so much to say against the notch. I'll have to see it in person anyways, these are just my initial thoughts based on all the pictures floating around..

Whether you see a notch or ears IMO version 1 is a “cleaner” design especially since the optimal user experience is to not have any media flow into the “ears”. Version 1 visually directs the user to pay attention to everything below the notch. The 2nd version makes the notch stick out like a widows peak.

 

[44267547]

How have you been out of the loop enough to think that the iPhone X wasn’t rushed out for 2017?

So, deflect away from the question I asked you because You assume I have been 'out of the loop?'

I simply asked:

"Based on what evidence do you have that Apple rushed the Notch or iPhone X all together?"

I'm not interested if you have disdain about the notch or Face ID. I'm just curious how you know it was rushed and based on what evidence?

Even after Federighi clearly discussed this is an interview.


https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/iphone_x_event_thoughts_and_observations

 

[Smartass]

Whether you see a notch or ears IMO version 1 is a “cleaner” design especially since the optimal user experience is to not have and media flow into the “ears”.
View attachment 726824

This would be really nice design if iOS automatically implemented something like this... but it appears as Apple designers lately dont really try hard anymore.
[doublepost=1508772666][/doublepost]

not sure what you would describe as 'Apple-like design' but i've seen this notch like shape used over and over again in Apple's design language..
you haven't ?

----
a few i can think of right off the bat...
G5 tower/Mac Pro
Cube
OS X
iPhone (sort of)
[doublepost=1508767076][/doublepost]for starters--
(and i bet there's more.. these are the Apple notches i can think of without even thinking about it)




View attachment 726800

View attachment 726801

View attachment 726802

View attachment 726803
[doublepost=1508768813][/doublepost]even the freaking Apple logo itself is notched.


View attachment 726808

But you're missing one big point of it all - none of these notches protrude into screens and they are really subtle, unless you're intentionally looking for them. The same cannot be said about the X notch, which is quite obvious.

 

[flat five]

But you're missing one big point of it all - none of these notches protrude into screens and they are really subtle, unless you're intentionally looking for them.

they couldn't cut the screens before.

whether or not you believe these blurbs from the X marketing pages:

---------------------------
or:

---------------------------------------

...Apple very likely considers this to be innovative and something they couldn't do before now in a mass production setting.. from here on out, we may be seeing more not rectangular screens in Apple products.

the language though, the motif of the notch.. has been present since way back.. all of those designs i posted earlier as well as the iPhone have been done by one person.. Jony Ive..

if you don't like how it looks on the iPhone then fine.. i'm not trying to argue you about that or change your mind/tastes..
my point is that the notched shape IS part of the historical language of design under Apple's roof.

 

[Regime2008]

Can you imagine if every TV, monitor, laptop, movie theater, billboard, double din radio, etc, had a notch?! Wouldn't it be cool to see how Apple could change the way we consume media?!

 

[eyeseeyou]

But you're missing one big point of it all - none of these notches protrude into screens and they are really subtle, unless you're intentionally looking for them. The same cannot be said about the X notch, which is quite obvious.

I guess I see the point the OP is trying to make as far as a “notch” being part of apples design language, reaching a bit though considering most of those have nothing to do with an interaction a user would be involved in every single time they use the product.

But if you apply that logic, regarding the iPhone x’s design, you’d have to make this screens physical bezel protrude into the screen and not be a software based notch.

That would be poor design which is why they don’t or have not done it.
[doublepost=1508774071][/doublepost]Stepping away from this whole notch discussion really puts into perspective how much of an Apple fanboy I’m not when I thought I was a big one.

I’ve literally never read one single comment from anyone in this forum or on the internet making a request to remove the top center of any media screen with a hardware based notch but as soon as Apple does it... oh boy.

Doesn’t mean I’m not still considering buying it though lol.

 

[Diorama]

They. Have. Not. Removed. Anything.

 

[flat five]

Can you imagine if every TV, monitor, laptop, movie theater, billboard, double din radio, etc, had a notch?! Wouldn't it be cool to see how Apple could change the way we consume media?!

on an iMac type computer, it could be sweet..

the display going all the way out into the rounded corners.. way smaller bezels & chin.. maybe some updated speaker tech in what remains as the chin..

a ‘notch’ up top for front facing camera / faceID technology.. the menu bar on the left of the notch.. the status/time bar on the right side.

yep

 

[Applejuiced]

That would be a nightmare

Can you imagine if every TV, monitor, laptop, movie theater, billboard, double din radio, etc, had a notch?! !

 

[Stella Martin]

Why don't you visit the Apple store and have someone who knows it better explain it to you? I think it would be less stressful.

 

[iSayBoourns]

that's inaccurate since the iPhone X, ignoring the notch & corners, is larger than 5.8" diagonal..

the X's diagonal is 5.8586"
the Plus diagonal is 5.4935"

------------------
i have to leave for work soon but as a starting point:

iPhone X screen is 2436-by-1125 pixels at 458 pixels-per-inch..

2436 ÷ 458 = 5.3188" long
1125 ÷ 458 = 2.4563" wide

using a2 + b2 = c2 to get the diagonal..

5.3188 * 5.3188 = 28.2896
2.4563 * 2.4563 = 6.0334

sqrt of (28.2896 + 6.0334) = 5.8586" diagonal

------------------
keep going with the comparison and you'll find the X screen is actually larger than Plus.. (prior to corners/sensor housing removal)

(though-- for the comparison.. might as well quit with the diagonal as it's more work than necessary to arrive back at the area.. just find the length&width of both screens.. then find the area that way )

----
edit--
or, check this :

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...tisfy-plus-users.2075344/page-8#post-25188238

Apple themselves even state the screen is 5.85 before corners. So your math is dead on.

 

[flat five]

Can you imagine if every TV, monitor, laptop, movie theater, billboard, double din radio, etc, had a notch?! Wouldn't it be cool to see how Apple could change the way we consume media?!

as if VR stuff is going to be rectangular

if it is, it’s going to be bad..
we don’t see rectangular..
things have been rectangular up until now due to technological limitations.

not because rectangles equate to best viewing experience.

—-
and stretching here but— even with our eyes, you see a notch... your nose..
it’s not an issue though as your brain can fully adapt