Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Doesn't matter what the document is; you going for force software manufacturers to design to the lowest common denominator. The regulations are socialistic in nature and I think over time this is going to have a chilling effect in the EU. YMMV.
That is hilarious nonsense. Nothing could be further from the truth!

iMessage and other services can continue unchanged. The only change is that Apple and other service providers have to provide gateways to other corresponding services if other service providers ask for it, so users can choose whether to actually communicate through those gateways – or not!

It's all about users gaining choices which are currently still blocked by service providers.
 
Usually when the EU or someone comes up with something existential for the big tech companies, they just leave the market. The market eventually begs them back. So I do wonder how this bill will end up changing.
That actually never happens!

The EU requests compliance and corporations comply – or get fined. The EU market is far too lucrative to abandon in a huff just to continue with clearly anti-competitive behaviour.

And since most EU regulations are actually quite consumer-friendly (as these new ones are when you actually read what they are really about) there is pretty solid public support, too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: M3gatron
I think this is the crux of the issue. Has Apple gotten so big (or specifically, iOS devices) that by not opening parts of its OS and hardware they are stifling competition and competitors?
Together with Google they clearly do, as a joint duopoly.
 
Yup and nothing appears to be coming along anytime soon either to knock Apple or Google from their perch.
It’s virtually impossible now for a new third system to succeed, because not only do you need all the technical hardware and software expertise and patent clout, you need to convince a large number of app developers to port their apps to your platform, and you need to run all the cloud services that are nowadays expected. The only currently workable alternative is to build yet another Android device (since Apple doesn’t allow licensing iOS).

Because of this, and because smartphones are becoming an integral and indispensable commodity, it is probably inevitable that in the long run (decades) the systems will be forcibly opened up or broken up by regulation.
 
A "walled garden", in this case, is your euphemism for what is otherwise known as a monopoly. The EU doesnt like monopolies, deem them to be anti-consumer and against the interests of their citizens, and are legislating accordingly. If Apple doesnt like the EU's rules, they can take their ball and go home.
That is not entirely correct, though: Monopolies are not illegal in the EU.

But abuse of a dominant market position to suppress effective competition and user choices is indeed frowned upon!
 
  • Like
Reactions: M3gatron
It’s virtually impossible now for a new third system to succeed, because not only do you need all the technical hardware and software expertise and patent clout, you need to convince a large number of app developers to port their apps to your platform, and you need to run all the cloud services that are nowadays expected. The only currently workable alternative is to build yet another Android device (since Apple doesn’t allow licensing iOS).

Because of this, and because smartphones are becoming an integral and indispensable commodity, it is probably inevitable that in the long run (decades) the systems will be forcibly opened up or broken up by regulation.
Well said. People frequently conflate the technically possible with the practically possible. Technically it’s possible for someone else to come along, but as a practical matter, it’s just not going to happen for all the reasons you outlined. It would take a complete paradigm shift away from the smartphone and on to something new to unseat Apple or Google. And even that assumes Apple and Google don’t win that battle as well. Apple managed to maintain their position as a dominant player in the shift from computers to smartphones and tablets, unlike Microsoft.
 
I can't wait to see how this screws me over as a US citizen. I still haven't forgiven the EU for all those terrible cookie nag messages thanks to GDPR.
Oh noes!

The EU forced illegal user tracking out into the open and many web site providers made the choice to not actually abandon their disgusting tracking but instead chose to browbeat you into accepting said disgusting tracking anyway – or just grudgingly allowing you to use them without at least the worst of their tracking which they would never have done without being forced by GDPR.

What you're asking for is blissful ignorance of being abused as in the bad old days but I actually prefer to see what's going on – and choosing to opt out every single time if necessary.

Plus the EU is trying to crush Bitcoin as well in favor of Ethereum. I wish governments would just leave things alone instead of "fixing" them until they are broken.
Authorities frowning upon crass money laundering schemes which are used mostly by criminals and speculants and on top of it all are a major environmental hazard?

Say it isn't so! ?
 
Philosophically yes, particularly if it’s part of a duopoly, is a general computing platform, and is central to the lives of billions of people around the world. Otherwise one entity has too much control over too many people.

Philosophically is a lot different than actually. Like has been mentioned here before, video game systems are pretty robust, why shouldn’t they be forced to allow third-party game stores or sideloading? There’s really only three companies with major home consoles. There’s probably a number of scenarios where you can remove Apple and Google from the equation and plug them with different companies and the argument is the same.

Obviously laws are technical and diverse amongst governing bodies, but the general idea behind forcing Apple’s hand here could have implications far beyond mobile devices and operating systems.

The core function of a mobile device is to call and communicate, everything else is just fluff. Taking into account what an iPhone (or Android phone or most smartphones) can do, there’s lots of other devices than can do the same. You combine it with tablets, laptops, etc and suddenly the market is a lot bigger than it seems and there’s a lot more options for people.

Keep in mind, I’m really not disagreeing on the merits of letting people run whatever apps they want on their phones. I’m arguing from a purely legal standpoint, of which the monopolistic aspect is the strongest argument, but I don’t see it.. yet.
 
What I do find disturbing the the frequent mention of business users.

"The control of an important gateway for business users towards final consumers: this is presumed to be the case if the company operates a core platform service with more than 45 million monthly active end users established or located in the EU and more than 10,000 yearly active business users established in the EU in the last financial year;"

and:

"Gatekeepers will carry an extra responsibility to conduct themselves in a way that ensures an open online environment that is fair for businesses and consumers, and open to innovation by all, by complying with specific obligations laid down in the draft legislation."

Does this mean that a messaging platform, like Messages or WhatsApp, could become a method for business users to reach buyers. Would we become bombarded with advertising in the middle of our private conversations on these platforms?
No. It is above all about user choices. And as much as iMessage spam is a rising problem, you will still be able to block spam or other unwanted messages as you always have, as far as your messaging platform supports block lists and other restrictions.
And what does this mean for platforms like Facebook or Twitter. Do they have to open themselves to interaction from 3rd party apps?
Yes, both of them are very clearly gatekeepers by the definition of the proposed regulation.
And what possibly could this mean where it refers to operating systems and cloud computing services? It seems truly bizarre that they envision Apple or Microsoft opening up their OS or cloud to any 3rd party that comes along and makes the request.
As far as I'm aware security limitations can still apply.
 
It's well known that the EU leaders do not know where they talk about.... Only gain from the EU in this is money....
You're projecting ideas onto the EU which are very clearly not how the actual EU really operates if you knew anything about it.
The EU is not able to get ONE EU law for music, movie or other laws...
Simply because it is the member governments who jointly decide which areas are to be delegated to the EU and at least many member governments have so far wanted to reserve media legislation for themselves. This would require a unanimous decision, which does not exist at this point.
So every external company need to get their deals per country within the EU... But this they can? Oh yeah that's right, EU is heavenly in need of money...
That is hilariously far off the mark!

Priorities in european media legislation are usually about national and sometimes even regional cultural identity and independence and about concerns with cultural colonialization (which are not entirely unfounded when you're looking at the worldwide dominance of US media).

Money is the least of it. Your somewhat helpless conjecture there mainly demonstrates how little you know about Europe and the EU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lenny Pelullo Slade
Although this does have a slight hint of revenge from the EU. Apple refused to comply with requests to let law enforcement into handsets if required and went down the Privacy route at every turn. It seemed like Governments couldn't do anything.....until now.
That is absurdly unrealistic. The conflict between authorities and privacy is actually primarily happening in the USA and in autocratic countries where personal privacy has a very low status or is nonexistent as a personal right, exactly contrary to the EU where personal privacy has a much higher status and is an actual legal reality (see GDPR).

This regulation is in fact primarily born out of the so far unchecked power of some global corporations which are so far running roughshod over user interests, civic rights and democratic principles and which have become a major threat to free societies in some cases (by commercially driven algorithms prioritizing anti-democratic propaganda, for instance).

Now Apple will have to either exit the EU market or open up their OS by law. To be honest, this has been a long time coming, there has been talk for many years about Apple having their system locked down and no one could have access to it. The time has apparently come to change that.
Only to a very limited extent; Others like Google and Facebook have much more problematic business models which could be hit a lot harder by comparison.
 
So since SMS and phone calls are universally compatible, why should Apple be required to open iMessage to other platforms?

If anything those would be the "essential services," not iMessage.
Interoperability is already assured there, so SMS is not an issue.

iMessage, WhatsApp etc., on the other hand, have no working gateways yet.
 
I have never once said this in all the time that Tim Cook has been CEO but if Steve Jobs were alive today, he would write an open letter, putting the EU in its place. Tim, I encourage you to do this.
 
I have never once said this in all the time that Tim Cook has been CEO but if Steve Jobs were alive today, he would write an open letter, putting the EU in its place. Tim, I encourage you to do this.
The European Union is the political union of 27 independent nation states represented by their elected governments, elected members of the European Parliament and the appointed European Commission on behalf of the privacy and access rights and interests of almost 450 million citizens.

That is the EU's place!

The moneyed interests of a comparatively small handful of Apple shareholders for the corporation to engage in anti-competitive and user-restricting behaviour are on comparatively weak feet there, but you're free to try arguing your case if you can find any valid arguments.

Your move.
 
The European Union is the political union of 27 independent nation states represented by their elected governments, elected members of the European Parliament and the appointed European Commission on behalf of the privacy and access rights and interests of almost 450 million citizens.

That is the EU's place!

The moneyed interests of a comparatively small handful of Apple shareholders for the corporation to engage in anti-competitive and user-restricting behaviour are on comparatively weak feet there, but you're free to try arguing your case if you can find any valid arguments.

Your move.
You're missing my point. It's not my move, it's what Apple's move is and how they should react telling them how they feel about the matter. My point is if Steve were alive, he would, in somewhat rather choice words, tell them to go F themselves and tell them exactly why with a very matter-of-fact reason.
 
You're missing my point. It's not my move, it's what Apple's move is and how they should react telling them how they feel about the matter. My point is if Steve were alive, he would, in somewhat rather choice words, tell them to go F themselves and tell them exactly why with a very matter-of-fact reason.
The impact of Steve Jobs' open letters generally came from having valid points to raise in the interests of Apple's users, but in this case what you're imagining actually just amounts to Apple wanting to restrict user choices and effective competition which has been making Tim Cook's statements on the matter already somewhat awkward as it is.

And Apple's position is actually a lot better by comparison to the really ugly ones of Google, Facebook and their ilk who really have completely indefensible positions in this matter.

Steve above all knew when to shut up when he really couldn't publicly defend some of his moves or positions, and right now he would tread very, very lightly, too.
 
yeah, If I were Apple I'd literally halve the api's and services I'm willing to let third party stores use. I'd turn the 3rd party app space into a very poor experience. No multi tasking, no access to metal etc.. just a very basic namespace and completely sandboxed from the wider OS.

Then I'd let customers decided what app stores best meets their needs but warn customers every step of the way this stuff is completely unsupported. I'd also say Apple will not help you customer service wise if any app is central to your problems.

For me I'd be fighting fire with fire here. I would make this whole thing a nightmare for the EU.

Message systems would have the most basic interopability possible.
I'd just make it all a huge waste of time.
Yup. Apple will be fined 10% of their worldwide revenue the first time they try to restrict third-party apps from using the APIs that are available for Apple's first-party apps. They try it a second time, they will be fined 20% of their worldwide revenue. In addition, the Commission may impose periodic penalty payments of up to 5% of the total worldwide annual turnover of the gatekeeper concerned in the event of non-implementation of orders. In the event of systematic violations of the DMA rules of conduct, the Commission may, pursuant to Art. 16 DMA (i.e., based on a market investigation), imposes behavioral and structural remedies, up to and including the ultima ratio of breakup.

After a couple of years, after having been fined about 30% of their global revenue and the threat of being broken up into multiple entities looming large, I am sure Apple will come down from its high horse and will be ready to do whatever the government asks them to.
 
It's the EU, what did you expect. The downside of a unitary establishment involves many, many countries. Probably best to ask the public, but governments don't care about their people.
The US is also bringing out an Anti-trust bill. Whether they have the balls to pass it, implement it, and fine the big tech companies is yet to be seen. It may not come to pass if the big tech can buy out the politicians. But the idea of all the countries is same, they want to control the big tech.
 
Yes, there is no big tech company in EU.
Booking.com is a European company that is affected by DMA. Here is a list of possible companies that could be designated as Gatekeepers. Not sure how many of them are American and how many are EU-based. The list is there, you can check.
Google
Amazon
Microsoft
Apple
Facebook
SAP
ORACLE
NETFLIX
AIRBNB
TWITTER
ZOOM
BOOKING HOLDINGS
Yahoo
SPOTIFY
SALESFORCE
UBER
EXPEDIA
PayPal
Ebay
Zalando
Slack
Vivendi
(Verizon)
 
  • Like
Reactions: klasma
if Apple "forces" you to install WhatsApp in order to receive WhatsApp chats, doesn't that mean WhatsApp "forced" you to install their app in order to use their chat? does WhatsApp accept messages from all other current and future chat apps? why aren't they being forced to open their app up to allow messages from competing chat apps?
Yes, WhatsApp is also affected. They have to allow interoperability too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wildkraut
Apple, first of all, is not a monopoly. Their latest iPhone moment, the M1, is great, but sales went from the high teens to low '20s. And frankly, they still cost too much to get monopolies in the PC or phone or watch. I think it would be a good idea to let other stores into the Apple store-- but they'd have to have the same security standards, updating, etc. That would be for the benefit of Apple customers, all of them. But, you know, I don't think too many corporations want to invest in all the servers, management, security from one end to the other-- I think this is phony populism, funded by less than serious companies that want all the benefits of the store, plus the ability to opt out of it when there is money to be made, and costs can be left in Apple's hands.
Apple, Facebook and Google Have Lost the Monopoly Argument
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.