International 4G iPad Models Will Work on AT&T, Not on LTE in Home Countries

[swagi]

First of all, most EU countries haven't rolled out LTE yet, so it doesn't yet make sense to add the bands. Second, DC-HSDPA does qualify as 4G per the ITU standards, so they aren't lying, and it is about as fast or even faster than LTE is right now on Verizon and AT&T. They didn't say it supports LTE in every country (just the US and Canada right now), but it does technically support 4G.

The LTE-frequencies in Germany were auctioned in May 2010. Since then the specification has been available.

In June 2011 Telekom rolled out LTE in the major city of Cologne being the first big city to receive LTE after the former "white spot"-rule was fulfilled. Frankfurt is up an running currently. More and more cities are joining the LTE-band as you are even neglecting development in that field.

Sorry to say that - but all of a sudden it makes sense to wait for the Galaxy Note 10.1 or even wait for the next generation 'real LTE'-iPad.

Btw: I currently theoretically could get a 50 MBit upstream and 100 MBit downstream here in Cologne. Live up and running...alas Telekom provides only tarifs with capped bandwidth (like 5.7 up and 42.2 down)

 

[sintra1]

Still, I stand by my point that it's disappointing Apple didn't accommodate for the bands being implemented and then have one killer device for every market, it just seems like little mistakes were made along the way during pre-production that then snowballed.

This isn't one of those Apple's dead without Jobs posts, it just seems like a huge oversight is all that I'm surprised to see.

Its an interim device with LTE radios (So called 4G) for the US markets.

If you read back someone already pointed out that the required radio chips for multi-band support are at least a year away.
Add that to the fact that here in the UK we are 18-24 months away from 4G roll out (Subject to license awards after the trials) you can expect to see that global iPad probably in a future upgrade.

Apple has done an interim radio upgrade before notably the CDMA iphone 4 for Verizon so an upgraded iPad radio could well be on the cards.

 

[KPOM]

Sorry to say that - but all of a sudden it makes sense to wait for the Galaxy Note 10.1 or even wait for the next generation 'real LTE'-iPad.

Btw: I currently theoretically could get a 50 MBit upstream and 100 MBit downstream here in Cologne. Live up and running...alas Telekom provides only tarifs with capped bandwidth (like 5.7 up and 42.2 down)

So that doesn't appear much faster than what you can get with HSPA+ or DC-HSPA+, which are also more prevalent in Europe. I don't see why one would get a Galaxy Note 10.1 simply for the difference between HSPA+ and LTE. Are there any caps on how much you can download before overages or throttling apply?

LTE's a bigger deal in the US because our HSPA+ networks are pretty bad. We need LTE here so we can get the kind of speeds you are used to with your more advanced 3G networks.

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Just cancelled my iPad "4G'' in UK and reordered a Wi-Fi only.

So because you can't use the 4G iPad on your nonexistent 4G network in the UK, you'll stick with Wi-Fi? It still supports DC-HSDPA 42 and HSPA+ 21, which you do have.

 

[Lennholm]

You mean: Will use.

Right?

Wrong, the first country to deploy LTE was Sweden, and I'm willing to bet they currently have the best coverage in the world relatively speaking.
Why are people so quick to dismiss europes comittment to LTE? Is it american arrogance speaking again?

 

[zebi]

4G- Gate

Why bother creating 4G iPads and selling them in the rest of the world - someone should get fired!

 

[tom.]

People are so quick to over react!

The idea that people won't spend the extra ~£100 solely because it won't support the bands of LTE in their country which (mostly) haven't been rolled out yet is crazy. It does support HSDPA and HSPA+ which are quite commonly considered to be 4G technologies now anyway. It gives you plenty more options than wifi, that's for sure.

And it's not as if they're hiding the facts, the UK store states:

The iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G model can roam worldwide on GSM/UMTS networks. When you travel internationally, you can also use a micro-SIM card from a local carrier. In countries without compatible 4G LTE networks, the new iPad will operate on GSM worldwide network technologies such as HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA.

I have no qualms with my 4G pre-order.

 

[KPOM]

Wrong, the first country to deploy LTE was Sweden, and I'm willing to bet they currently have the best coverage in the world relatively speaking.
Why are people so quick to dismiss europes comittment to LTE? Is it american arrogance speaking again?

It's not the commitment anyone's questioning, it's the actual state of affairs. Right now, the UK, France, Switzerland, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, Spain, and Portugal are only in the deployment phase. It sounds like DT in Germany is just about where AT&T was a few months ago (i.e. not very far along).

Certainly, over the next 1-2 the situation will improve dramatically, just as it has here over the past year, but by then Apple will have released additional updates. Now that they have dropped the numeric naming scheme there might be more frequent minor updates to do just that. I also wouldn't be surprised if the next iPhone has more frequencies.

 

[HishamAkhtar]

Very glad I ordered a WiFi only model. Makes things much simpler + I live in Europe so it'll be useless there.

 

[Lennholm]

Frequency proliferation has gotten a lot worse with each generation. Is it realistic to have them support:

• 4 GSM/EDGE bands
• 4 UMTS bands
• 2 North American American LTE bands

AND 3 European LTE bands? I don't believe there is a single chipset yet that supports all those bands (for the VZW models they swap out one of the LTE bands for 2 CDMA bands).

They eventually will support the 3 European LTE bands (some of which are also used in Asia and Australia), but don't be surprised if it has limited support for the North American bands, or drops EDGE.

Given that, apart from Japan, Scandinavia, and Australia, LTE rollouts are largely in their infancy, I can understand why they stuck with North America for now. First, our 3G networks are overloaded, so we need it more (the carriers are pushing it heavily to expand their capacity). Second, it is their home market.

But consumers in scandinavia are completely uninterested in the LTE in the current iPad 3 because it doesn't support the bands their networks are using, so why couldn't Apple make a number of iPads dedicated to the scandinavian market that used chips that support their network INSTEAD of the american network?
Don't tell me it would be difficult for a company like Apple to do that

Edit:
It wouldn't even have to be a model dedicated to scandinavia, they could simply mass-produce it as a european model since they know every other network in europe is going to use it

 

[KPOM]

Why bother creating 4G iPads and selling them in the rest of the world - someone should get fired!

It also added HSPA+ 21 and DC-HSDPA 42 support, which were not supported by the iPad 2. It probably doesn't make sense for them to have too many production versions, so they simply made more of the "AT&T" version for international sale. Verizon is a unique case in the US because they are, by far, the furthest along with LTE and can commit to the marketing.

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But consumers in scandinavia is completely uninterested in the LTE in the current iPad 3 because it doesn't support the bands their networks are using, so why couldn't Apple make a number of iPads dedicated to the scandinavian market that used chips that support their network INSTEAD of the american network?
Don't tell me it would be difficult for a company like Apple to do that

All of Scandinavia has a population about the size of Texas. It just isn't a big enough market to justify a "special" edition right now.

My guess is that Apple is waiting for the other markets and/or the chipsets to mature to the level where they can make a single version that will work in worldwide, just as they have done with the iPhone 4S. LTE support is just too fragmented right now to justify that.

Remember, up to now the Wi-Fi iPad has by far been the biggest seller, including in the US. The main attraction of the new iPad is the screen. This may well be an attempt by Apple to "test out" LTE before the next iPhone announcement, and see how some of the chips perform in real life.

 

[zebi]

It also added HSPA+ 21 and DC-HSDPA 42 support, which were not supported by the iPad 2. It probably doesn't make sense for them to have too many production versions, so they simply made more of the "AT&T" version for international sale. Verizon is a unique case in the US because they are, by far, the furthest along with LTE and can commit to the marketing.

I will likely get the 3G version - however my point is that why market it with 4G connectivity in regions where it will never work. I'm sure working with networks on rollout plans would have made sure that when LTE is rolled out the device will clearly support it, meanwhile you are left with a device that supports LTE but not in your region. Maybe they will come out with one with support - but where does that leave users who have already invested one?

There are currently LTE trials here in the UK but they wont be ready until the end of 2012.

 

[KPOM]

Very glad I ordered a WiFi only model. Makes things much simpler + I live in Europe so it'll be useless there.

I didn't realize that HSPA+ was "useless."

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I will likely get the 3G version - however my point is that why market it with 4G connectivity in regions where it will never work. I'm sure working with networks on rollout plans would have made sure that when LTE is rolled out the device will clearly support it, meanwhile you are left with a device that supports LTE but not in your region. Maybe they will come out with one with support - but where does that leave users who have already invested one?

There are currently LTE trials here in the UK but they wont be ready until the end of 2012.

They are marketing it as supporting "ultra-fast wireless." Only in the detail do they mention 4G support (and the definition of 4G is fluid - even LTE didn't qualify according to the original ITU definition, and now even HSPA+ does in some countries). My guess is that the TV ads won't mention LTE or 4G where it doesn't work.

 

[MarlboroLite]

I will likely get the 3G version - however my point is that why market it with 4G connectivity in regions where it will never work. I'm sure working with networks on rollout plans would have made sure that when LTE is rolled out the device will clearly support it, meanwhile you are left with a device that supports LTE but not in your region. Maybe they will come out with one with support - but where does that leave users who have already invested one?

There are currently LTE trials here in the UK but they wont be ready until the end of 2012.

Why market it that way? Because they're like any other corporation pitching their product--and that usually means deceptive advertising which is selective in what it promotes or downplays, and prone to exaggeration and/or misleading language. It's how it goes...

They will obviously support all LTE bands by the next iteration...and even then places like France and as you say the UK will still be just preparing the deployment...so ultimately the only choice one can make is to buy the 4G* iPad for the 3G service if you needed it anyway...or to not get it if you planned on keeping it for say 2 or 3 years and hoped to enjoy the 4G once it rolled out in your country.

But as far as the marketing goes...don't hold your breath waiting for Apple to remove the 4G material from their ads anytime soon...

 

[iSayuSay]

Shame .. Not gonna works on LTE outside U.S n Canada .. And this time not because it is locked but due to radio frequency difference.

So it's like I'm not going to be able to use iPad LTE for another year or so since I'm not based in U.S.. Quite a false advertising regarding international LTE new iPad. Keyword is international btw

 

[Lennholm]

It also added HSPA+ 21 and DC-HSDPA 42 support, which were not supported by the iPad 2. It probably doesn't make sense for them to have too many production versions, so they simply made more of the "AT&T" version for international sale. Verizon is a unique case in the US because they are, by far, the furthest along with LTE and can commit to the marketing.

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All of Scandinavia has a population about the size of Texas. It just isn't a big enough market to justify a "special" edition right now.

My guess is that Apple is waiting for the other markets and/or the chipsets to mature to the level where they can make a single version that will work in worldwide, just as they have done with the iPhone 4S. LTE support is just too fragmented right now to justify that.

Remember, up to now the Wi-Fi iPad has by far been the biggest seller, including in the US. The main attraction of the new iPad is the screen. This may well be an attempt by Apple to "test out" LTE before the next iPhone announcement, and see how some of the chips perform in real life.

So the entire scandinavian market, and in extension the whole of europe, isn't enough to take the measly additional cost it would be to make a 4th or so with a different chip. I think enough prople in europe will be put off by this to offset the cost Apple saves by only producing one single model.
I'm seriously beginning to think that Apple does this solely to be able to market "the real iPad 4g" in europe next year

 

[eurobum]

Considering that 4G is virtually non-existant in Europe (barring very small pockets) this won't affect anyone there anyway until they roll it out--which I've read would take a few more years still. This would pose a problem for people who don't wish to upgrade when a new iPad comes out that does support the required LTE frequencies though and would keep it for 2 or 3 years.

My guess is that LTE chips covering the multitude of frequencies in addition to all the other 3G bands is probably not good enough yet, so they chose to put in what was available.

talk about a vast generalization. so basically, judging from multiple comments in this thread about "not being rolled out in europe for YEARS to come" you guys think we live in medieval times still. between courting duchesses, sword dueling and hunting down witches that we burn or drown, we would hardly have time to utilize LTE anyways, right?

lol. i can't speak for this entire continent, only where i live, but there are three major providers here in denmark that are basically just WAITING for 4G devices so they can publicize LTE subscriptions on 2600 MHz.

(off topic, but this is just one of many smh-inducing moments in the last couple of years from apple. yes, aesthetically, apple is light years ahead of everyone else, but wow, shiny icons just doesn't cut it for me. i'm so sick of ***** like this, and frankly, over the last couple of years the quality of apple products have dropped so much, it's ridiculous. ever since gaining huge market shares, they basically said "***** it, we makin' our $ anyways. lol customer satisfaction." *lights big-ass cigar and laughs like an eviel bawse*)

 

[swagi]

So that doesn't appear much faster than what you can get with HSPA+ or DC-HSPA+, which are also more prevalent in Europe. I don't see why one would get a Galaxy Note 10.1 simply for the difference between HSPA+ and LTE. Are there any caps on how much you can download before overages or throttling apply?

LTE's a bigger deal in the US because our HSPA+ networks are pretty bad. We need LTE here so we can get the kind of speeds you are used to with your more advanced 3G networks.

I see your point. But it's about future-proofing, you know. Currently LTE is bandwidth-capped - and I guess this is mainly due to the fact, that the overall availability just isn't that good while in deployment phase.

And to answer your other question: My current phone is a Lumia 800 (btw. Nokia messed up big style with the software and battery performanca using UMTS sucks, but a fix is on the way) and I enjoy full and *unlimited* HSDPA.

Yes - you read that right. No capping or throttling. *Unlimited*

 

[MarlboroLite]

talk about a vast generalization. so basically, judging from multiple comments in this thread about "not being rolled out in europe for YEARS to come" you guys think we live in medieval times still. between courting duchesses, sword dueling and hunting down witches that we burn or drown, we would hardly have time to utilize LTE anyways, right?

lol. i can't speak for this entire continent, only where i live, but there are three major providers here in denmark that are basically just WAITING for 4G devices so they can publicize LTE subscriptions on 2600 MHz.

(off topic, but this is just one of many smh-inducing moments in the last couple of years from apple. yes, aesthetically, apple is light years ahead of everyone else, but wow, shiny icons just doesn't cut it for me. i'm so sick of ***** like this, and frankly, over the last couple of years the quality of apple products have dropped so much, it's ridiculous. ever since gaining huge market shares, they basically said "***** it, we makin' our $ anyways. lol customer satisfaction." *lights big-ass cigar and laughs like an eviel bawse*)

The fact that the vast majority of Europe hasn't even begun to roll out LTE is a simple fact--it has nothing to do with making Europe backwards or in the middle ages...Europe's 3G infrastructure is vastly superior to that of the US. This has nothing to do with judgments or attitudes! Yes, there are exceptions--Scandinavia, and some pockets of Germany. But the vast majority of the continent doesn't, and in huge markets like France and the UK the spectrum has not even been allocated! So again, that being the case, and in addition to what I am guessing is the lack of availability of a chip that could cover all LTE frequencies means that it simply wasn't an option at this time. From a business perspective they made the choice to include North American frequencies because it's their biggest market which is actually and currently being served by LTE, not in the future.

I understand the desire to future-proof one's iPad if you live somewhere where 4G is coming down the line so you can then use it and you're not inclined to upgrade every year...or the frustration if you are lucky enough to be in a place like Denmark which has LTE already available....but this iPad offers all of the fastest 3G bands as well, so it's not like it's a piece of ***** either.

As far as the marketing goes...yes it's very deceptive...and unfortunately that's what corporations tend to do.

 

[tombelton]

Sorted

I bought the '4G' iPad yesterday and once I got the bottom of this issue I felt like I'd been massively missold to. I hope this causes a storm because it's just not right.

I'm now happy and here's what I've done: cancelled my order and reordered the WiFi version. I already have a decent data package with my iPhone and I'm just going to tether it when I'm out and about. This way I've saved £100 on the cost of the iPad and I don't have to spend on a new data plan for the iPad.

Here's the other thing. I think most people will upgrade their phone more often than their iPad. The next gen iPhone will probably be LTE capable in the countries that truly support it. So when this iPhone comes out I will have a real 4G connection and will be able to access this on my iPad still through tethering. So eventually my 'new iPad' will be able to access 4G data networks through my iPhone. Sorted!

I know a couple of people who have one the same thing.. I really hope apple gets pulled up by the Advertising Standards Authority. My perception of Apple is at an all time low. Shame.

 

[JaySI]

Why bother creating 4G iPads and selling them in the rest of the world - someone should get fired!

This. They are already marketing the device as "4G" here in europe and i'm sure many people will get royally screwed over. Not cool Apple.

If you can't make the device work on all LTE bands don't bother releasing it as 4G!

 

[profets]

Shame .. Not gonna works on LTE outside U.S n Canada .. And this time not because it is locked but due to radio frequency difference.

So it's like I'm not going to be able to use iPad LTE for another year or so since I'm not based in U.S.. Quite a false advertising regarding international LTE new iPad. Keyword is international btw

Again.. did they advertise LTE for international use? When I think about it now they were pretty clear about LTE launching with AT&T, Verizon, Bell, Telus and Rogers.

Apple is good about controlling SKUs and keeping them minimal for global use. At this point there definitely seems to be technical limitations preventing many options for LTE with the chipsets they use.

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I bought the '4G' iPad yesterday and once I got the bottom of this issue I felt like I'd been massively missold to. I hope this causes a storm because it's just not right.

I'm now happy and here's what I've done: cancelled my order and reordered the WiFi version. I already have a decent data package with my iPhone and I'm just going to tether it when I'm out and about. This way I've saved £100 on the cost of the iPad and I don't have to spend on a new data plan for the iPad.

Here's the other thing. I think most people will upgrade their phone more often than their iPad. The next gen iPhone will probably be LTE capable in the countries that truly support it. So when this iPhone comes out I will have a real 4G connection and will be able to access this on my iPad still through tethering. So eventually my 'new iPad' will be able to access 4G data networks through my iPhone. Sorted!

I know a couple of people who have one the same thing.. I really hope apple gets pulled up by the Advertising Standards Authority. My perception of Apple is at an all time low. Shame.

The amount of whining on this forum is incredible. Apple never said LTE use in europe did they?

Did you not spend 2 minutes to research your purchase ahead of time? Heck, they've added hspa+ and dc-hspa for excellent data options which the previous iPad didn't have but I suppose that's suddenly useless?

 

[tombelton]

The amount of whining on this forum is incredible. Apple never said LTE use in europe did they?

Did you not spend 2 minutes to research your purchase ahead of time? Heck, they've added hspa+ and dc-hspa for excellent data options which the previous iPad didn't have but I suppose that's suddenly useless?

You're missing the point dude. First of all their marketing IS misleading to people that aren't in North America. Second, we will have LTE networks here soon, but 'the new iPad' won't work on them.

Read this and grow a brain:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/08/ipad_4g/

Ironic that you're whining about people whining.

 

[profets]

You're missing the point dude. First of all their marketing IS misleading to people that aren't in North America. Second, we will have LTE networks here soon, but 'the new iPad' won't work on them.

Read this and grow a brain:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/08/ipad_4g/

Ironic that you're whining about people whining.

Lol sure dude. I've been posting quite often and helping people understand the difference with different bands, technologies yet I'm the one thats whining and needs to grow a brain?

So the absence of LTE makes the cellular version of the iPad useless for europe? Since the keynote Apple has said LTE for US and Canada.

So it's pretty clear that 2600 will be used in EU, US and Canada, along with 800 in EU. Thing is there's an obvious technical limitation at this point.

Is there a variety or handful of LTE devices currently on the market? I'm asking as I'm solely curious about the chipset that's being used.

 

[eurobum]

The fact that the vast majority of Europe hasn't even begun to roll out LTE is a simple fact--it has nothing to do with making Europe backwards or in the middle ages...Europe's 3G infrastructure is vastly superior to that of the US. This has nothing to do with judgments or attitudes! Yes, there are exceptions--Scandinavia, and some pockets of Germany. But the vast majority of the continent doesn't, and in huge markets like France and the UK the spectrum has not even been allocated! So again, that being the case, and in addition to what I am guessing is the lack of availability of a chip that could cover all LTE frequencies means that it simply wasn't an option at this time. From a business perspective they made the choice to include North American frequencies because it's their biggest market which is actually and currently being served by LTE, not in the future.

I understand the desire to future-proof one's iPad if you live somewhere where 4G is coming down the line so you can then use it and you're not inclined to upgrade every year...or the frustration if you are lucky enough to be in a place like Denmark which has LTE already available....but this iPad offers all of the fastest 3G bands as well, so it's not like it's a piece of ***** either.

As far as the marketing goes...yes it's very deceptive...and unfortunately that's what corporations tend to do.

i honestly didn't mean to lash out. i'm just a little bit disgruntled right now, that's all. all your points are true and valid. in all honesty, i will still buy it because, to me, even without genuine 4G it is still the best product available.

reason why i'm so disgruntled also has to do with massive problems in Lion (networking issues and MANY general OS issues) that hasn't been fixed yet and millions of users experience these problems. we're at 7.3, apple, how is this happening? just laughable. that will be the last i comment on that. sorry to go off-topic once more.

you may continue with what you were doing, folks.

 

[tombelton]

Lol sure dude. I've been posting quite often and helping people understand the difference with different bands, technologies yet I'm the one thats whining and needs to grow a brain?

So the absence of LTE makes the cellular version of the iPad useless for europe? Since the keynote Apple has said LTE for US and Canada.

So it's pretty clear that 2600 will be used in EU, US and Canada, along with 800 in EU. Thing is there's an obvious technical limitation at this point.

Is there a variety or handful of LTE devices currently on the market? I'm asking as I'm solely curious about the chipset that's being used.

Maybe the problem here is that Americans accept hspa+ and dc-hspa as 4G and in Europe we don't?