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I am afraid you are right. For that kind of money it needs to have a operating system like in OSX. I am afraid that Microsoft will be get my green backs.

I wish people would simply state "I prefer MS products" instead of making spurious price arguments.

Let's compare:

13.3" MacBook Air 4GB/128GB $999
2.96 lbs
older (cheaper) 1440x900 display
trackpad (difficult art input)
no camera
no Touch ID
built-in keyboard (faster input)
OS X (works with high end software)

12.9" Wifi iPad Pro 4GB/128GB $949
1.5 lbs (only 1 ounce heavier than original iPad)
latest (more expensive) 2732x2048 display
sensitive touch display (easy art input)
2 cameras
Touch ID
on screen keyboard (slower input)
iOS (unknown high end software availability)

Take a look at the differences:

Macbook Air
More expensive case/keyboard
OSX

iPad Pro
almost 50% lighter
more expensive display
cameras
fingerprint sensor

Seems like $50 less for the iPad Pro is just about right.

In fact, compared to the iPad Air, it still looks properly priced with it's 75% larger, more responsive screen and much faster processors for only $250 more.

They are designed for different, albeit occasionally overlapping workflows.

I'm looking forward to mine (as an adjunct to my Macs).
 
We're not all greedy. I give away my services when I could easily charge top dollar. However, on this topic there is a quid pro quo with regard to buying items you decide if it's worth it. While We all know this is not going to sell like the iPhone only Apple can decide if it's a failure. Although I'm sure the arm chair CEOs will be declaring their version of the launch.

Oh, I've done a lot of volunteer work, and given away a lot of money. I'm not a Scrooge, but I'm still greedy. I have plenty to live on, but I drool over the kind of stuff I could have if I was a lot richer than I am. I like to go to other places, but I hate the actual travel. I want to be rich enough to take a charter jet wherever I go. I'd like to own an island in the South Pacific and a lodge in the British Columbia mountains.
 
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The iPad Pro will be a big failure for Tim Cook. Really, he just doesn't have a long term vision for the tablet line. Bigger iPad with stylus, but same OS is honestly the dumbest thing Apple has come up with since the Apple Watch.

The iPad Pro needs to be able to run OSX or have some sort of file system as a lite replacement for a MacBook, otherwise it's just a glorified and expensive version of an iPad Air (which I sold to get a MBP)

Now I read Apple is investing resources to building a car. (Slaps forehead) Laughable Tim.
Microsoft is doing just like what you wanted, a full OS on a tablet, from the days of Tablet PC to Surface. Many OEMs have been making Windows 8 tablets as well. Yet all of them are not reaching the success that the iPad did.

An iPad is an iPad. A Macbook is a Macbook. Your preconception of wanting an iPad to replace a Macbook Pro is your own false assumption as Apple never meant for the iPad to replace a Macbook.The fact that you ended up getting a MBP means that you do need a laptop. Apple has decided that a laptop is a laptop, and a tablet is a tablet, each with its own OS optimized for the main UI.

Files system is an old paradigm. I was glad that Apple tried to overcome it when they first rolled out iCloud, but unfortunately the market is not ready to move on from the old mindset of mindless manual organizations of files and folders (Apple then making iCloud drive). I mean seriously, we have a super computer, yet we still have to manually organize our files? Why can't we have a computer/OS/system that is smart enough to do that for us?
 
Files system is an old paradigm. I was glad that Apple tried to overcome it when they first rolled out iCloud, but unfortunately the market is not ready to move on from the old mindset of mindless manual organizations of files and folders (Apple then making iCloud drive). I mean seriously, we have a super computer, yet we still have to manually organize our files? Why can't we have a computer/OS/system that is smart enough to do that for us?

Why should i buy iCloud space? Free 5gb isnt even enough for backups when you have few ios devices.

Paying money for few gigs rather than having terabytes of free space on my own nas, im still bound to buy cloud because apple doesnt let me use my own nas on the same way like you can use icloud drive. If there was a manageable filesystem, i could store all data to the nas and access them with any devices and apps. Why cant we just decide how to store and share our files easily? and specially we should already be able to get rid of this multiple copies of the same file depending on how many times you have been using it with differend apps.

Which one is worse in ios: the thing that i cannot manage files like i want and have them stored in one place or the thing that after some time my space is full of copies depending how many times i have been using the file and with how many apps? If there was a manageable filesystem i could easily delete those multiple copies even avoid them in the first place, but also clear temp files (1gb podcasts data is nice to have when you have only 100mb space left for example. How do you empty the data from podcast app?)

When you say that apple is changing the world and dinosaurs only use the "old" filing system, im just saying that apple is just doing it wrong.
 
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The one criticism of iOS that I agree with is the absence of a file system. It would be nice to be able to find and manipulate files. It's not a big enough issue to get me to switch to the complete mess that is Windows, but it is a shortcoming.

Backups go to my iMac. And for podcasting (on the iPod Touch) I use iCatcher, which allows me to delete podcasts easily.
 
Well the point wasnt use 3rd party app or use itunes to make full backups but the point was showing the reality what comes to ios and apple apps and how they manage their data. You are way too restricted - even when just deleting unwanted cache. You cant do that always. Podcast app is just one example, you can delete podcasts but you cannot delete Podcast app data and you have one gig used space for nothing.

And when we talk about backups and restoring, it should be much easier to restore data from your backups. Without a manageable filesystem or ability to store data straight to the cloud (from where it could be restored too), it is way too complicated to restore data back just to one app.

To me a missing manageable filesystem is the reason i dont buy ipad pro.
 
The Pro is unquestionably a niche device. It's too big/heavy for the average user and it has a bunch of features that the average user won't want. Apple clearly knows this and with tablet sales down in general, I don't think they're expecting this to revive the whole lineup or anything.

But it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of iterations of iOS and whether there begins to be some Pro-specific features that move it to a more versatile machine for everyday users as well. And I'm sure it'll also get lighter and more efficient, just like everything else. Maybe we'll be looking at a 1 pound iPad Pro with all day battery life in 2 years.
 
The IPP may indeed be a niche device, but it may be a pretty sizable niche. There's those that just want a bigger media consumption experience, and those that want to do creative work with the pencil and more responsive screen. I'm kind of in both those camps. I'd like to have a file manager, sure - just like I'm really glad Apple includes a command line on Mac OS X. But I've learned to build a workflow around it, and somewhere along the line, the various other more automatic file management mechanisms Apple and others provide will likely make a file manager seems as archaic as... well, as a command line.

No, we're not there yet. But it's coming.
 
Why should i buy iCloud space? Free 5gb isnt even enough for backups when you have few ios devices.

Paying money for few gigs rather than having terabytes of free space on my own nas, im still bound to buy cloud because apple doesnt let me use my own nas on the same way like you can use icloud drive. If there was a manageable filesystem, i could store all data to the nas and access them with any devices and apps. Why cant we just decide how to store and share our files easily? and specially we should already be able to get rid of this multiple copies of the same file depending on how many times you have been using it with differend apps.

Which one is worse in ios: the thing that i cannot manage files like i want and have them stored in one place or the thing that after some time my space is full of copies depending how many times i have been using the file and with how many apps? If there was a manageable filesystem i could easily delete those multiple copies even avoid them in the first place, but also clear temp files (1gb podcasts data is nice to have when you have only 100mb space left for example. How do you empty the data from podcast app?)

When you say that apple is changing the world and dinosaurs only use the "old" filing system, im just saying that apple is just doing it wrong.
Then you can buy a Mac, right?

I don't understand why people buy iPads and expecting a Mac.
 
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Then you can buy a Mac, right?

I don't understand why people buy iPads and expecting a Mac.

Buying a mac doesnt fix the ios filesystem. If we stretch your words to macs we should have same filesystem in our macs too. No accessing to the data, only through apps and cloud, having multiple copies of the same file in diffrened locations etc. That would definitely be something that i dont want to see on my mbpr - neither on my ipad/iphone.

filesystem in ios just sucks.
 
Buying a mac doesnt fix the ios filesystem. If we stretch your words to macs we should have same filesystem in our macs too. No accessing to the data, only through apps and cloud, having multiple copies of the same file in diffrened locations etc. That would definitely be something that i dont want to see on my mbpr - neither on my ipad/iphone.

filesystem in ios just sucks.
Sucks, or not extensible enough? I don't think the ways iOS does things sucks, but I do agree if you say that it needed to be more extensible.

Have you ever used spotlight on the Mac? That's imo a part of the new paradigm.
And when I have a smart enough OS to get the files that I need on my command, why would I want to manually organize the files myself?
We now have super advance computing hardware on our hands, yet we still manually deal with files, just like the low end workers in the old days, filing the files manually in the file cabinets for the boss. I am on the camp that expect a computer to do that for me.

And no, I'm not talking about cloud only solution. I mentioned iCloud because of the parallel paradigm that Apple used on it. Applications know where to save and find its own files, and I don't have to be managing folders manually. That's my point, not about the cloud only solution. Please be aware of the differences.

And yes, I have a 10TB drobo, so I do know about NAS, and the annoyance of having to manage files.
 
Buying a mac doesnt fix the ios filesystem. If we stretch your words to macs we should have same filesystem in our macs too. No accessing to the data, only through apps and cloud, having multiple copies of the same file in diffrened locations etc. That would definitely be something that i dont want to see on my mbpr - neither on my ipad/iphone.

filesystem in ios just sucks.

I think maybe his point was that iOS clearly is not for you. No OS will be right for everyone, and every OS will have shortcomings. We all pick the devices that work best for us. You've pointed out a real shortcoming in iOS. And since a file system is such an important part of an OS, I'll say that not having a user-manageable one in iOS was probably intentional, and not likely to change. Though as Pika points out, perhaps Apple is moving toward a better solution.
 
Buying a mac doesnt fix the ios filesystem. If we stretch your words to macs we should have same filesystem in our macs too. No accessing to the data, only through apps and cloud, having multiple copies of the same file in diffrened locations etc. That would definitely be something that i dont want to see on my mbpr - neither on my ipad/iphone.

filesystem in ios just sucks.

The implementation of the the iOS 9 Document Picker has all but fixed any concern of a file system for me. I can use the same file from any document app including Dropbox, iCloud Drive, or even local using GoodReader, Documents by Readdle if I feel too cheap to pay for online storage.

The document picker provides easy and quick access in nearly any application for using the same files everywhere. This also includes uploading files via Safari or attaching in mail.

In many ways I prefer this to the Finder - it'll only get better with future iterations and will eventually be better for me in every way from the finder.
 
I dont see your point. iPad Pro probably has the best display of any tablet in the market, best stylus compared to anything else. It also has probably the fastest CPU ever put to a fanless device this thin. To me it seems like pretty wonderful device.

I certainly agree of all the tablets on the market iPad Air has the best display. But aside from that, it doesn't do anything else that other lesser priced tablets can do. It just runs apps.
 
I certainly agree of all the tablets on the market iPad Air has the best display. But aside from that, it doesn't do anything else that other lesser priced tablets can do. It just runs apps.
What does your Mac do? Run apps. Different, more capable apps (at the moment) sure. And it has a file system and some extra features. But we're talking about two very different devices.

What you're saying is that the 300€ piece of crap Acer laptop does the same as my 2000€ rMBP. Except my rMBP does it better. Thats what matters.
 
Well the launch is a failure - in communication. A big fat failure IMHO.

I'm thinking there may even be a delay at this point.
 
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Long time Apple user here...

The iPad Pro will be a big failure for Tim Cook. Really, he just doesn't have a long term vision for the tablet line. Bigger iPad with stylus, but same OS is honestly the dumbest thing Apple has come up with since the Apple Watch.

The iPad Pro needs to be able to run OSX or have some sort of file system as a lite replacement for a MacBook, otherwise it's just a glorified and expensive version of an iPad Air (which I sold to get a MBP)

Now I read Apple is investing resources to building a car. (Slaps forehead) Laughable Tim.
For whatever it's worth, I do think Apple is on to something here.

Many people are growing up with iOS or Android as their primary computing device. These are the people studying now, and will be preparing to enter the workforce in a couple of years. I won't be surprised if many years down the road, people find they are more comfortable using a mobile OS to get things done as opposed to a desktop-based OS.

iOS does like 80% of what most people need to get done on a PC, and while it still has its limitations, they are gradually going away as Apple adds more and more features every year.

People like you and me may be more comfortable using a PC, but I have this gut feeling that we represent the past, not the future. There will still be PCs, but they may end up playing an increasingly smaller (albeit no less substantial) role as people opt for more mobile workflows.
 
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Long time Apple user here...

The iPad Pro will be a big failure for Tim Cook. Really, he just doesn't have a long term vision for the tablet line. Bigger iPad with stylus, but same OS is honestly the dumbest thing Apple has come up with since the Apple Watch.

The iPad Pro needs to be able to run OSX or have some sort of file system as a lite replacement for a MacBook, otherwise it's just a glorified and expensive version of an iPad Air (which I sold to get a MBP)

Now I read Apple is investing resources to building a car. (Slaps forehead) Laughable Tim.

3rd class thread.
 
I don't think it'll be a failure, but it won't be the iPad sales saviour either. Sure there will be the initial "new thing" surge on day/week one, but long term I don't see it doing any better than any other new iPad, 9.7 or otherwise.

The fact is that a larger screen is not enough to make people upgrade. The other thread where a recent survey showed that 20% of iPad users still use iPad 2 and 18% still use the mini 1 shows that people are happy with their tablets because they're primarily media consumption devices or web browsing devices. The current iPad user base isn't going to spend that kind of money just to do the same thing on a bigger screen, and I don't see enough people who use laptops replacing them with a Pro for that to be the main reason it sells.
 
Well the launch is a failure - in communication. A big fat failure IMHO.

I'm thinking there may even be a delay at this point.

Define "failure." You are unhappy about it because Apple has not kept up the hype after the announcement. Apple has not responded to any of the multitudinous rumors. You even talk about "a delay" as if the rumored November 6 date had had anything behind it other than the wild speculation of the media. Apple announced the iPad Pro, and said it would be available in November. Go to their web site, it still says November. As I write this, we are only a week and a day into the month. I don't call that a failure.

If you want to see a launch failure, look at the launch of the Nissan Leaf: Many of the earliest orders were lost, then two months later were put at the end of the line, in back of orders placed much later. Then many of those cars were "lost" according to Nissan, who never explained what that meant. Then many got paint damage and were held in port for repair rather than allowing the dealers to handle it, so there were more multi-month delays. Then orders were shifted around so that people who had been promised a specific car by VIN number were re-assigned other cars further down in the production run, meaning more delays. THAT was failure

Apple's silence and refusal to respond to rumors is NOT a failure. And false release date rumors is not a delay. If the Pro is not available by November 30, that will be a delay.

As for the tablet itself, it's aimed at a small market, which is why they have only made a small number of them. It's not intended to "save" the iPad. It's intended to broaden the market by increasing the range of sizes and computing power to choose from. Apple will now be selling a small tablet, a standard-size tablet, and a large tablet. They will have a tablet for every need. They will not have a tablet that doubles as a laptop, but this fact is not a failure, it's a decision not to enter that particular market, probably because a tablet-laptop hybrid is a compromise that can never be as good as either.

I don't think it'll be a failure, but it won't be the iPad sales saviour either. Sure there will be the initial "new thing" surge on day/week one, but long term I don't see it doing any better than any other new iPad, 9.7 or otherwise.

The fact is that a larger screen is not enough to make people upgrade. The other thread where a recent survey showed that 20% of iPad users still use iPad 2 and 18% still use the mini 1 shows that people are happy with their tablets because they're primarily media consumption devices or web browsing devices. The current iPad user base isn't going to spend that kind of money just to do the same thing on a bigger screen, and I don't see enough people who use laptops replacing them with a Pro for that to be the main reason it sells.

Everything you say is true.

But the iPad Pro is not intended to be "the iPad sales savior." It's intended to fill a market niche that is currently empty. And the fact that most iPad Mini and iPad Air users are happy with their tablets is a mark of success. The Pro will be built in small numbers because Apple knows the market for it is small. The Pro will be a success because there is no other tablet of that size or power, so Apple will be the first to have small, "normal" and large tablets available.

I look forward to seeing it and holding it so that I can decide whether the weight and heft are comfortable enough to enjoy using it while sitting in my easy chair or in bed before sleep, and whether or not it's too heavy and/or bulky to carry while traveling.
 
But the iPad Pro is not intended to be "the iPad sales savior." It's intended to fill a market niche that is currently empty. And the fact that most iPad Mini and iPad Air users are happy with their tablets is a mark of success. The Pro will be built in small numbers because Apple knows the market for it is small. The Pro will be a success because there is no other tablet of that size or power, so Apple will be the first to have small, "normal" and large tablets available.

What market niche is currently empty? Large stylus-enabled tablet? The samsung note pro line has been offering Wacom enabled 12" tablets for a while now. The laptop replacement tablet market? I think the surface line has been filling that need quite well.

I think Apple has spotted a market niche that THEY haven't previously been in and decided to compete in it. But it isn't "empty" by any means. I expect their biggest market may be the 12" Samsung buyers, assuming they would prefer iOS over Android. The Sufaces are a completely different beast with full OS's so I can't imagine Apple snagging many from that market.
 
What market niche is currently empty? Large stylus-enabled tablet? The samsung note pro line has been offering Wacom enabled 12" tablets for a while now. The laptop replacement tablet market? I think the surface line has been filling that need quite well.

I think Apple has spotted a market niche that THEY haven't previously been in and decided to compete in it. But it isn't "empty" by any means. I expect their biggest market may be the 12" Samsung buyers, assuming they would prefer iOS over Android. The Sufaces are a completely different beast with full OS's so I can't imagine Apple snagging many from that market.

Right, they probably discovered that those Samsung 12" pen-enabled tablets where selling well and decided they wanted a piece of the action. Samsung makes quite a few tablets, that's for sure. You wouldn't think they sell that well, but perhpas they do.

Curious.
 
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The iPad Pro is a niche product, to be certain, but I don't think Apple expects anything more from it than that. I know a lot of artists and graphic designers and they are all (myself included) absolutely champing at the bit to get their hands on one. Wacom may currently be the best-in-class for pressure-sensitive stylus input, but they don't set the bar particularly high. If Apple gets this right, they're going to put a nasty dent in Wacom's business. If Astropad works as advertised, and the pencil is as good as everyone says, then I think there's a real possibility I may sell my Cintiq.

(FWIW, I already have a Surface Pro 3, which I think is pretty poor. It's not laptoppy enough to replace my laptop, but not tabletty enough to sit in a workflow gap between my laptop and phone. The non-Wacom pen that ships with the Pro 3 really isn't up to scratch for artwork, either.)
 
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