iPhone 12 Pro iPhone 12 Pro camera cannot focus up close

[GeoffAlex]

Because the 12 and Mini dont have LiDAR sensors....

The main function of the LiDAR sensor is judging depth of objects in front of it. It obviously can’t focus as close as the 12, Mini and older iPhones without it.

Right, so nothing to do with ability to focus because of a shallower DoF or minimum focus distance as you keep saying in your other replies as the sensors across the iPhone 12 mini, 12, and 12 Pro are the same.

Considering that the 12 mini and 12 do not have this issues (at least not reported) and the 12 Pro and 12 Pro Max do have this, it stands to reason this is (at least for the 12 Pro) entirely and solely due to the LiDar sensor being used to focus which apparently overrules the camera's normal system (as the regular 12 and 12 mini work fine and share the same lens and sensor with the 12 pro completely).

Long story short, you're wrong with constantly belittling people that its inherent to the lens or camera sensor and they don't know how camera's work. It's a software focus reliance on LiDar which (hopefully) should be able to get fixed in a software update if Apple also sees this as an issue.

Ok bye now.

 

[DexBell]

Right, so nothing to do with ability to focus because of a shallower DoF or minimum focus distance as you keep saying in your other replies as the sensors across the iPhone 12 mini, 12, and 12 Pro are the same.

Considering that the 12 mini and 12 do not have this issues (at least not reported) and the 12 Pro and 12 Pro Max do have this, it stands to reason this is (at least for the 12 Pro) entirely and solely due to the LiDar sensor being used to focus which apparently overrules the camera's normal system (as the regular 12 and 12 mini work fine and share the same lens and sensor with the 12 pro completely).

Long story short, you're wrong with constantly belittling people that its inherent to the lens or camera sensor and they don't know how camera's work. It's a software focus reliance on LiDar which (hopefully) should be able to get fixed in a software update if Apple also sees this as an issue.

Ok bye now.

Try reading. Ive said many times its the new camera system, which includes LiDAR. We suspected it was LiDAR earlier in this thread because it doesn’t seem to happen in bright sunlight where LiDAR isn’t on.

 

[PieTunes]

What happens if one tries to take an up-close picture while the LiDAR sensor is covered?

 

[midkay]

Because the 12 and Mini dont have LiDAR sensors....

The main function of the LiDAR sensor is judging depth of objects in front of it. It obviously can’t focus as close as the 12, Mini and older iPhones without it.

Lol I’ve never met someone so confidently incorrect about cameras.

The LIDAR sensor assists with focusing more quickly/accurately up close in lower light. It does not have anything to do with being able to focus closer than a device that lacks it. Again: it only makes focus faster, not closer in any way. The range of focus is still dictated by the camera and completely unaffected by the presence of LIDAR.

The issue here appears to be that the focus accuracy absolutely appears to be affected by some issues with the LIDAR implementation.

Have anyone with a non-Pro (non-LIDAR device) been able to confirm they’re seeing no issues?

 

[johnnylarue]

Okay, that may be true. However, I also have an iPhone 12 mini, and according to the specs of its camera it also has the f/1.6 lens. The image is not blurry on it. As you said, the blurriness could be a result of the Pro Max's larger sensor.

View attachment 1671753

Just wanting to confirm here: your Mini is able to focus as close as your 11 Pro

Lol I’ve never met someone so confidently incorrect about cameras.

The LIDAR sensor assists with focusing more quickly/accurately up close in lower light. It does not have anything to do with being able to focus closer than a device that lacks it. Again: it only makes focus faster, not closer in any way. The range of focus is still dictated by the camera and completely unaffected by the presence of LIDAR.

The issue here appears to be that the focus accuracy absolutely appears to be affected by some issues with the LIDAR implementation.

Have anyone with a non-Pro (non-LIDAR device) been able to confirm they’re seeing no issues?

Yup, confirmed on Page 10 by the fellow with a 12 Mini who posted a photo of his phones focusing on a keyboard.

All other factors being the same, there’s reason to hope this is a software/firmware issue pertaining to the LiDAR implementation rather than a physical limitation of the lens.

 

[chrizzz09]

Right, so nothing to do with ability to focus because of a shallower DoF or minimum focus distance as you keep saying in your other replies as the sensors across the iPhone 12 mini, 12, and 12 Pro are the same.

Considering that the 12 mini and 12 do not have this issues (at least not reported) and the 12 Pro and 12 Pro Max do have this, it stands to reason this is (at least for the 12 Pro) entirely and solely due to the LiDar sensor being used to focus which apparently overrules the camera's normal system (as the regular 12 and 12 mini work fine and share the same lens and sensor with the 12 pro completely).

Long story short, you're wrong with constantly belittling people that its inherent to the lens or camera sensor and they don't know how camera's work. It's a software focus reliance on LiDar which (hopefully) should be able to get fixed in a software update if Apple also sees this as an issue.

Ok bye now.

No you are drawing a false equivalency here. The 12 Pro does not have this issue. I know because I have a 12 Pro and the Pro Max directly next to me and compared them. The 12 Pro can still focus while being closer to an object, while the Max would get blurry and I need to hold it further out.

It has nothing to do with LIDAR, I think its just the new sensor in the Pro Max.

 

[johnnylarue]

No you are drawing a false equivalency here. The 12 Pro does not have this issue. I know because I have a 12 Pro and the Pro Max directly next to me and compared them. The 12 Pro can still focus while being closer to an object, while the Max would get blurry and I need to hold it further out.

It has nothing to do with LIDAR, I think its just the new sensor in the Pro Max.

Nah, 12 Pro here. Can’t focus as close as my 6S can. It’s almost like the phone can’t decide which lens to use between the Wide and Tele and keeps switching back and forth...

I don’t know enough about how LiDAR is being used for focus assist so I have no idea if that’s the problem, or if it’s just a generalized communication error in the whole module, but something definitely ain’t right.

Just finished a Chat with Apple Support who logged the issue. I would implore anyone else experiencing this to take 3 minutes to do the same!

 

[GreekFeeling]

Same Issue here with my 12 Pro Max !! Hope there will be a fix!!!

 

[Shank2001]

I came here because I am also experiencing this issue. I got my iPhone 12 Max Pro on Friday, and I immediately noticed this issue. I tried for an hour to get it to focus up close like I have been used to doing with every iPhone going back as far as I remember. No luck. I am running 14.2 so no, the latest iOS does NOT fix the issue. This is a very real issue, and for people who love macro photography, it is a big deal. If you don't care, then no need to chime in 100 times like DexBell does.

So there are three possibilities:

1. The camera just does not have the same minimum focal distance that all previous iPhones do.

While possible, I just don't see Apple regressing this badly in this key area of photography. Especially because the main point Apple makes about the 12 Pro iPhones, is the camera. So this seems unlikely. The iPhone has always been better than most other phones at macro photography, and I always figured it was because Apple cares about it, so I doubt Apple would regress, like I said.

Also, the larger sensor should have no effect on minimum focus distance, other than make the focal depth of field narrower. Large sensors have a shallower depth of field. This is why DSLRs are able to blur the background without resorting to software depth blur for portraits etc. But the change in sensor size is not enough to have a huge effect here, it would just narrow slightly. And it should still be able to focus to the same actual minimum distance, no laws of physics would be violated here, it just depends what compromises the designers are willing to live with.

IF it turns out to be the case that Apple regressed here and decided not to implement the same minimum focus distance, I will be returning my 12 Pro Max, and sticking with the 11 Pro Max. It is this serious of an issue to me. I will be going to an Apple store to find out this weekend. I will report what happens here.



2. It is a software issue.

It can be hard as the end consumer, to know what is the underlying cause of an issue, hardware or software. Hopefully a trip to the Apple store can shed some light.

If it is software, then I potentially should be able to find Pros that do not have this issue at the Apple store... it depends on how prevalent this bug is, if it is software.

This is my great hope. It seems that some people have iPhone Pros that do not have this issue, but it is hard to tell, when I cannot see how they are taking their photo, and how far away they were, etc. If it is a software issue then all will be fine eventually, once Apple gets the kinks worked out.

However, there is a very narrow window for me for Apple to fix this, as I am in the upgrade program. I only have 14 days to decide if I want to return the 12 Pro Max or not. I'm crossing my fingers that this is solvable, and not "by design"... as it is a major regression, in my opinion.


3. It is a hardware issue.

Maybe not all iPhones have this issue due to it being a hardware problem though. This is why it is hard to know, as the end user, which is the cause of an issue. I am going to compare many iPhone pros at the Apple store, and see if it is consistent or not, and see what the genius says. If it is hardware, this would be a win, because it is simple to just exchange the iPhone, and all is fine for me. These things happen.

It is a gamble, do I wait, and hope it is software, and that Apple will eventually fix it? Risking being stuck with an iPhone I dislike for the next year. Or do I return the 12 Pro Max entirely. I'm not sure which I will do at this point, I am hoping a visit to the Apple store will help.

I will report back after this weekend visit to the store.

 

[DexBell]

Same Issue here with my 12 Pro Max !! Hope there will be a fix!!!

Try it outdoors in better light maybe?

 

[DexBell]

Ok, took my 12 Pro Max outside for some tests and found some really interesting things when using the telephoto lens. These first three shots are using the main wide lens. I could not get too close and the shots of the grill logo and thermometer and they aren't super detailed. This is where it gets interesting. The next 3 shots are with the telephoto lens. I still wasn't able to get in super close, about 6 inches away, but I could get much tighter and more detailed shots, because well, its a telephoto lens. Then it got even more interesting. Have a look at the videos. The camera does this weird jump, like its switching from the wide to telephoto, although I always had telephoto selected.

 

[appleino]

I just did various close focussing tests with my 12 IPM vs my iPhone X - the minimum focus distance of the 12 is way larger than that of the X. It's such an astonishing difference and so much worse that macro shots are basically impossible now using the wide lens. I even have to move further away than 3 inches to achieve focus, it's more like 4-5 inches. If I use the tele lens, I get a higher magnification overall but that lens has a smaller aperture and a worse sensor, so it's not really an option if you don't want to sacrifice on image quality. That's a big bummer, I'm basically shocked about the bad performance of this new camera system in this regard and also wonder whether it can be fixed somehow via a software update. If I cover the Lidar sensor there is no difference at all and apps that allow manual focussing (I use ProCam 8) also can't focus any closer at the moment.

 

[DexBell]

and here are some indoor lower light tests. First two are are using the wide camera and trying to get in close, second two are using the telephoto. Its pretty clear the telephoto camera should be used for macro-type shots on the 12 Pro/Max.

 

[DexBell]

Another interesting video. Flipping between the wide and ultra wide camera from the same distance, about 3 inches away from the keyboard. The main camera does not like being close than 6 inches from its subject. I still dont think its an issue, I think that's just how the new camera system with the larger sensor, faster lens and LiDAR works.

 

[DexBell]

One more test. First shot is from my 12 Pro Max, second shot is my 2018 iPad Pro 11. Both were next to each other about 3 inches from the keyboard.

 

[chrizzz09]

I just did various close focussing tests with my 12 IPM vs my iPhone X - the minimum focus distance of the 12 is way larger than that of the X. It's such an astonishing difference and so much worse that macro shots are basically impossible now using the wide lens. I even have to move further away than 3 inches to achieve focus, it's more like 4-5 inches. If I use the tele lens, I get a higher magnification overall but that lens has a smaller aperture and a worse sensor, so it's not really an option if you don't want to sacrifice on image quality. That's a big bummer, I'm basically shocked about the bad performance of this new camera system in this regard and also wonder whether it can be fixed somehow via a software update. If I cover the Lidar sensor there is no difference at all and apps that allow manual focussing (I use ProCam 8) also can't focus any closer at the moment.

You can't fix physics with a software update...
This has nothing to do with the Lidar scanner, thats what happens when you increase sensor size but let every other element of the camera system be the same across the models. Because of the larger sensor, but the same f stop and lenses as the other 12 models the PM has a larger minimum focusing distance than the other models with a smaller sensor.

Get used to it or don't buy it.

The advantages of a larger sensor definitely outweigh the minor impact in the "minimum focusing distance".

 

[Stan.06]

I am running 14.2 so no, the latest iOS does NOT fix the issue.

I would say that between 14.1 and 14.2 I did see some noticeable improvements between theses 2 versions. The 14.1 one was way worse. My images were blurry at around 9cm, and I had to unfocus and make it focus it back multiple times before it would pick up. (My previous posts here)
I hope they could fix this, please tell us when you come back from the store if Apple knows this issue or not, or is it fixable by software.

 

[rawCpoppa]

You can't fix physics with a software update...
This has nothing to do with the Lidar scanner, thats what happens when you increase sensor size but let every other element of the camera system be the same across the models. Because of the larger sensor, but the same f stop and lenses as the other 12 models the PM has a larger minimum focusing distance than the other models with a smaller sensor.

Get used to it or don't buy it.

The advantages of a larger sensor definitely outweigh the minor impact in the "minimum focusing distance".

12 Pro has the same sensor as before and still has similar focusing issues so it can’t be the sensor causing the issue.

 

[chrizzz09]

12 Pro has the same sensor as before and still has similar focusing issues so it can’t be the sensor causing the issue.

Oh I am sorry, I think we need to discern here a little bit between a focusing issues as in "it has trouble focusing in general at all distances" and the "you can't focus while being up close".

I am talking about the "issue" some here raised that they can't use the PM camera as a macro camera because they can't focus on objects while being 2 inches away from it, which is normal since its a larger sensor. My 12 Pro can get closer to objects and they still remain in focus, in fact, I just tested with my old 7 and the 12 Pro and 7 have the same minimum focusing distance.

If there is a different issue regarding focusing and not the "I can't get super close as before!" one, then I won't deny that there might be a problem in that regard.

 

[johnsoninnyc]

I reverse engineer and repair electronics daily, and have long used iphone to take circuit board photos and identify tiny markings on SMD components (without using any macro lens attachments). It’s worked for me going back to iphone 5s (or earlier), but I immediately noticed my new 12 pro max is completely incapable of this functionality. I have tested using Halide and ProCam and the minimum focus distance seems to be about 5 inches (not even anywhere close to the 3 inches claimed in some of these posts). This is using the 1X lens.
Using the 2.5x lens in Halide and ProCam the minimum is about a foot. When you click 2.5x button in stock Camera app, from say 6 inches focal distance, it is sharp because it is using digital zoom on the *1x lens*. You can confirm this by holding finger over 1x lens.
14.2 vs 14.1 only seemed to clean up the wild & erratic autofocus “hunting” , but not change the minimum focal distance.
So to conclude , 12 pro max has almost twice the minimum focal distance as predecessors, which is a deal breaker for me (but probably isn’t for a majority of user). I’m curious how the non-pro models fare - I’m not yet fully convinced they are in the clear based on the handful of posts here.
I would also note that the performance requirement for the ultra macro use case is very high. The sample photos posted here alleged to be performing examples have , in fact, been overwhelmingly poor and blurry! And the sample subject matter is too large/undetailed. Try taking pictures of surface mount resistors and ICs and seeing if the letters and numbers are legible.
I will return my 12 pro max and buy an 11 pro max. It was utterly superb for macro photography; i returned mine to hold out for a qualcomm modem returning to this year’s models. Turning out to be a bad call now..

 

[lordhamster]

I reverse engineer and repair electronics daily, and have long used iphone to take circuit board photos and identify tiny markings on SMD components (without using any macro lens attachments). It’s worked for me going back to iphone 5s (or earlier), but I immediately noticed my new 12 pro max is completely incapable of this functionality. I have tested using Halide and ProCam and the minimum focus distance seems to be about 5 inches (not even anywhere close to the 3 inches claimed in some of these posts). This is using the 1X lens.
Using the 2.5x lens in Halide and ProCam the minimum is about a foot. When you click 2.5x button in stock Camera app, from say 6 inches focal distance, it is sharp because it is using digital zoom on the *1x lens*. You can confirm this by holding finger over 1x lens.
14.2 vs 14.1 only seemed to clean up the wild & erratic autofocus “hunting” , but not change the minimum focal distance.
So to conclude , 12 pro max has almost twice the minimum focal distance as predecessors, which is a deal breaker for me (but probably isn’t for a majority of user). I’m curious how the non-pro models fare - I’m not yet fully convinced they are in the clear based on the handful of posts here.
I would also note that the performance requirement for the ultra macro use case is very high. The sample photos posted here alleged to be performing examples have , in fact, been overwhelmingly poor and blurry! And the sample subject matter is too large/undetailed. Try taking pictures of surface mount resistors and ICs and seeing if the letters and numbers are legible.
I will return my 12 pro max and buy an 11 pro max. It was utterly superb for macro photography; i returned mine to hold out for a qualcomm modem returning to this year’s models. Turning out to be a bad call now..

Interesting usecase. Sounds like you won't have much of a choice. I just did some testing here. I don't have any ICs to test with, but I did find an old aaa battery with text too tiny for my old eyes to read.

I don't have any older iPhones around, so I compared with my Gen 1 iPad Pro.

• The iPad pro (gen 1) was definitely able to get physically closer to the object with its lens. I got a decent "macro" shot at about 3-4 inches.
• The 12 Pro max using the wide lens definitely had to be further away making the text less legible (unless I cropped into the image). Using the telephoto lens got me a nice tight macro shot which was "good" to my eyes... aka the tiny text was nice and crispy... but it may not be as "detailed" as you'd get on say the 11 Pro's wide lens.

Interesting thread. Don't think this will impact me one iota, but I can definitely see where it will impact some majorly!

 

[alFR]

Interesting. My 12 Pro (non max) seems to have had its issue (failure to autofocus at/close to the same MFD that it could be manually focussed at, similar to what Stan.06 was reporting) cured by 14.2, but that clearly isn’t working for the Pro Max users. Maybe they introduced a bug fix in 14.2 for the Pro but didn’t do the same recalibration / change for the Max as it wasn’t out at that stage, or maybe there are two different issues? Be interesting to see if 14.3 makes a difference for the Max.

 

[CallmeBigfat]

Im not sure if this also effects a macro lens attachment, i have the sandmarc macro lens and it seems to be way more picky about where to focus as well lot more tunneling and ghosting. i need to be far enough to focus the phone camera but by that time the macro lens is not close enough to the subject and it leads to photos like this (first 3). (Could be me but i doubt it as im doing the same thing as i would with my xs max last 2 photos are an example of the quality i would get.) the lens does block the lidar sensor so maybe that could be the reason?

 

[Dr.V]

Same here. I have the 12 Pro Max and I thought it was my eyes so I put on my glasses on but still blurry. I was expecting so much more from the camera. Very disappointed with the lack quality and functionality. Anyone try and take pictures at night yet? I still haven't had a chance to really go through everything yet but there are definitely some issues with the 12's. Hoping it is just software and not the components.

 

[Applefan2015]

Im not sure if this also effects a macro lens attachment, i have the sandmarc macro lens and it seems to be way more picky about where to focus as well lot more tunneling and ghosting. i need to be far enough to focus the phone camera but by that time the macro lens is not close enough to the subject and it leads to photos like this (first 3). (Could be me but i doubt it as im doing the same thing as i would with my xs max last 2 photos are an example of the quality i would get.) the lens does block the lidar sensor so maybe that could be the reason?

Off topic, are these a kind of woodlouse? Which country are these from?