iPhone 12 Pro iPhone 12 Pro camera cannot focus up close

[johnsoninnyc]

This thread started with 2 for sure as the Max wasn’t out yet. Can’t say for sure Max’s issue is a combination of 2 and 1.

I think that’s right.

From a hardware perspective I’m not convinced there is any issue with the 12 pro. It is physically capable of focusing from 3” which was about a quarter inch better than my old iphone X. It may be worse than the XS or 11 series however - I don’t have any of those to test. The only issue is the software which seems improved in 14.2 but still bit wonky sometimes. When it’s glitching it seems you can tap the 0.5x button then 1x , then digital zoom back in to get focus. I suspect the software will likely continue to improve. But the hardware is capable.

The 12 pro Max was a different story in my tests. I’m curious what test results some of you here achieve. In my tests 4 5/8” which suggests the new system in that device does indeed make a significant trade off.

 

[doboy]

So this is getting more complicated. I had an iphone 12 pro that i never set up, in a box for fedex, to return to apple for refund (I had changed mind after ordering / getting it, deciding on getting the Max). I’ve opened it up and noted the following:



1 - this 12 pro it’s on 14.1, and the macro focusing is indeed quite spastic; it is because it is frequently trying to use its telephoto lens at close range ( say, below 6 inches), but that lens can’t focus beyond about 8-9 inches it seems. So I def think they worked on this a lot for 14.2, so that very close range reverts to the main 1X lens once it figures out it can’t get focus w the tele lens.



2 - the min focal distance for the 12 pro is considerably lower than the 12 pro max (more on this in a minute..)



3- Surprisingly, images taken that were fully in-focus, taken at it near the min focal length, were materially more detailed on the 12 pro than the 12 pro max.



4- Taking photos at min focal length, i found that the field of view of the 12 pro max was 1.8 times that of the 12 pro.



So overall , at least for the two devices I have in hand here, the 12pro is a much better macro shooter than the max!?



Min Focal Lengths: I measured by framing up a small laser printed white copy paper in normal indoor room lighting. I achieved the same results with camera App, Procam8, and Halide.



Measuring from the sapphire lens glass face perpendicularly down to the paper, I measured the following minimums:



iphone 12 pro: 2 15/16”

iphone 12 pro max: 4 5/8”

my old iphone X : 3 5/16”



*The definition of ‘focused’ here is not simply ‘it looks pretty good..’ , but rather the focus remains as sharp as was possible for slightly longer distances. As you get closer , the point the sharpness can’t be fully maintained is the indicator that the min limit is reached.



So in conclusion , the 12 pro max is showing some very serious weakness, comparatively speaking, both in terms of macro “effective zoom” and , most disappointingly , in macro image quality!

(to be clear, I have yet to take anything but macro pictures with these new phones , so we’re only talking macro here!)



I’m also wondering if there’s something to those concerns about switching camera supplier this year from exclusively Sony, over to the motley triumvirate of LG / Sharp / Ofilm. Do we know if there’s any situations of a camera manufacturer lottery for a particular model, in this year‘s lineup? I remember LG shutting down manufacturing earlier in the year for virus outbreak. And all of the ‘supply chain issues’ talk - were camera modules involved? Anyway i’m very curious to know who makes the modules in these two phones I have here, will have to figure out how to dump that system info..

Just wondering, did you take into account shallower DOF for the Max due to 47% larger sensor area? Also due to the larger sensor the lens would've been changed from the Pro so I'm sure that also plays some part in the difference.

 

[DexBell]

Thank you for sharing your wisdom. This is exactly why I rarely ever engage in these forums. You people are zealots.

Sorry but that’s the bottom line. Crying About it online does no good.

 

[richard371]

So I did a test with a wrist watch face, ruler etc using my iPad pro 2020 and 12 Max. I used Halide and manual focus set to 0 (min) on both. Halide provides a magnification when using manual focus so I moved the cameras up and down until it was tack sharp. it looks like the iPad standard lens is around 3" min focal distance and the max is closer to 4.5 or so. This is a rough estimate +/- 0.5" as I don't have a steady fixture etc to do this. This is due to optics and cannot be fixed in software as I've been into photography for years. The lidar issues in low light can be improved though. I understand the frustration for people that do macro shots etc. For me I'm ok as I don't really do many macros and pretty happy with the camera upgrades. I don't know why some people claim they get a tack sharp focus at less then 3" on the max. I would think with the special IBIS etc and physics the modules would be consistent. I can't imagine having different modules with different specs for this new cam. Maybe the iPhone 13 can have 4 lenses by adding a macro. Im sure some pro sites will shine some light on this soon.

 

[cwagz78]

Sorry but that’s the bottom line. Crying About it online does no good.

Last response. No tears here. Everyone in this thread is sharing information and trying to determine if this is a hardware versus software issue. Regardless of what you think, there are a significant number of people that own iPhones because of the camera and happen to use them to take close pictures frequently for legitimate reasons. These people have become accustomed to a certain minimum focus distance over the last several years. If I had the information in this thread prior to my purchase I would have not bought the phone.

Your input in this thread is not helpful. I will never understand why certain people have to actively defend everything Apple does. No person or company is infallible. Most appreciate feedback and use it to improve future products.

I can understand that tradeoffs were made with the new camera system. I am fairly certain this is a basic physics problem. It IS an unfortunate situation for those of us that take close pictures. Most here are grown-ups and will be able to determine if the loss of focus distance is worth the other improvements that were made. We really don't need your "help" realizing this. Have a nice day!

 

[DexBell]

Last response. No tears here. Everyone in this thread is sharing information and trying to determine if this is a hardware versus software issue. Regardless of what you think, there are a significant number of people that own iPhones because of the camera and happen to use them to take close pictures frequently for legitimate reasons. These people have become accustomed to a certain minimum focus distance over the last several years. If I had the information in this thread prior to my purchase I would have not bought the phone.

Your input in this thread is not helpful. I will never understand why certain people have to actively defend everything Apple does. No person or company is infallible. Most appreciate feedback and use it to improve future products.

I can understand that tradeoffs were made with the new camera system. I am fairly certain this is a basic physics problem. It IS an unfortunate situation for those of us that take close pictures. Most here are grown-ups and will be able to determine if the loss of focus distance is worth the other improvements that were made. We really don't need your "help" realizing this. Have a nice day!

My input has been extremely helpful because instead of sitting around crying about it, Ive tested 3 different iPhones and an iPad Pro in various lighting conditions when all anyone else has done is snapped a couple photos in a dark room and cried. Look at my posts on page 11 with photo samples. Use the telephoto lens for closeup photos.

 

[rawCpoppa]

My input has been extremely helpful because instead of sitting around crying about it, Ive tested 3 different iPhones and an iPad Pro in various lighting conditions when all anyone else has done is snapped a couple photos in a dark room and cried. Look at my posts on page 11 with photo samples. Use the telephoto lens for closeup photos.

Please stop. You have blatantly ignored multiple posts showing inconsistency between phones. There is an issue here not related to the design of the new lens.

 

[richard371]

Please stop. You have blatantly ignored multiple posts showing inconsistency between phones. There is an issue here not related to the design of the new lens.

I assume the issue your referring too is the Lidar focussing in low light? Im sure the algorithms will be improved The min focal distance is design. Yes the cams are a downgrade for Macro people and upgrade for others.

 

[johnsoninnyc]

So I did a test with a wrist watch face, ruler etc using my iPad pro 2020 and 12 Max. I used Halide and manual focus set to 0 (min) on both. Halide provides a magnification when using manual focus so I moved the cameras up and down until it was tack sharp. it looks like the iPad standard lens is around 3" min focal distance and the max is closer to 4.5 or so. This is a rough estimate +/- 0.5" as I don't have a steady fixture etc to do this. This is due to optics and cannot be fixed in software as I've been into photography for years. The lidar issues in low light can be improved though. I understand the frustration for people that do macro shots etc. For me I'm ok as I don't really do many macros and pretty happy with the camera upgrades. I don't know why some people claim they get a tack sharp focus at less then 3" on the max. I would think with the special IBIS etc and physics the modules would be consistent. I can't imagine having different modules with different specs for this new cam. Maybe the iPhone 13 can have 4 lenses by adding a macro. Im sure some pro sites will shine some light on this soon.

Seems to tie out to the 4.625” I measured on the Max. I’m not sure anyone has claimed 3” for the Max here. And I agree with that would seem to be impossible.

 

[richard371]

Seems to tie out to the 4.625” I measured on the Max. I’m not sure anyone has claimed 3” for the Max here. And I agree with that would seem to be impossible.

Makes sense Thought I read someone claimed 4 but maybe I dreamt it. Im sire someone will come along and say it does 3 but id be very skeptical.

 

[johnsoninnyc]

Just wondering, did you take into account shallower DOF for the Max due to 47% larger sensor area? Also due to the larger sensor the lens would've been changed from the Pro so I'm sure that also plays some part in the difference.

FOV not DOF. Simple test: I just measured how wide the subject matter was on a non-digitally zoomed exposure taken at min focal distance for each phone. The max was much wider which makes sense given how much further away it needed to be to be in focus. I think The FOV ratio roughly lines up with focal distance ratio.

 

[Vojta Slabý]

Did iOS 14.2.1 update fixed this issue? I have updated but no change.

 

[DexBell]

Did iOS 14.2.1 update fixed this issue? I have updated but no change.

Dont see why it would. Its not an issue and its hardware related, not software.

 

[firoze]

There defiantly is an issue with the close focusing of the 12PM. I was at an authorised Apple dealer today and I tried two 12PM phones. Neither could focus as close as the 12Pro phones I tried. The 12Pro phones focused as close as the 12 mini I also tried. So the conclusion is that either the 12PM camera system cannot focus as close as the other 12 series cameras, or both the 12PM phones I tried were defective. Either way, this issue needs to be investigated further.

 

[Never mind]

Auto focus is just fine and why in the heck would I need to take pictures less than 3 inches from the lens ? Why can’t you take a picture as close as you can and then enlarge it a little closer if need be. Some of you guys think this is a DSLR Proffessional camera. This is a non-issue for me

 

[rawCpoppa]

Auto focus is just fine and why in the heck would I need to take pictures less than 3 inches from the lens ? Why can’t you take a picture as close as you can and then enlarge it a little closer if need be. Some of you guys think this is a DSLR Proffessional camera. This is a non-issue for me

Never mind this post.

 

[richard371]

There defiantly is an issue with the close focusing of the 12PM. I was at an authorised Apple dealer today and I tried two 12PM phones. Neither could focus as close as the 12Pro phones I tried. The 12Pro phones focused as close as the 12 mini I also tried. So the conclusion is that either the 12PM camera system cannot focus as close as the other 12 series cameras, or both the 12PM phones I tried were defective. Either way, this issue needs to be investigated further.

It’s not defective it’s the design with the bigger sensor and faster lens.

 

[firoze]

It’s not defective it’s the design with the bigger sensor and faster lens.

On what basis do you state that? Do you have any concrete basis for making this statement?

 

[DexBell]

On what basis do you state that? Do you have any concrete basis for making this statement?

We base it on understanding how larger sensors and faster, wider f/1.6 lenses vs f/1.8 lenses effect photos. Read up on how cameras and lenses work a bit. I'll try to simplify it as I have done numerous times in this thread. A larger sensor and a faster, wider lens creates a more shallow depth of field. Again, if this were an issue, you can bet that DXO or GSM Arena would have found it in the exhaustive testing they do.

 

[firoze]

We base it on understanding how larger sensors and faster, wider f/1.6 lenses vs f/1.8 lenses effect photos. Read up on how cameras and lenses work a bit.

Sorry I don't buy that. The aperture of a lens has no bearing on how close it can focus. The aperture has a bearing only on depth on field, but we are not talking about depth of field here, we are talking about minimum focusing distance. A fast lens does not necessarily mean it can't focus close. I have been using very high end cameras for over 45 years, so I do not need to read up on photography. Perhaps you would do well to read up. In any case, getting back to the topic, your statement "it’s the design with the bigger sensor and faster lens" has no basis in fact. There are owners on this thread with genuine problems with their phones and it would help if people did not make statements not based on fact. Regards.

 

[richard371]

Sorry I don't buy that. The aperture of a lens has no bearing on how close it can focus. The aperture has a bearing only on depth on field, but we are not talking about depth of field here, we are talking about minimum focusing distance. A fast lens does not necessarily mean it can't focus close. I have been using very high end cameras for over 45 years, so I do not need to read up on photography. Perhaps you would do well to read up. In any case, getting back to the topic, your statement "it’s the design with the bigger sensor and faster lens" has no basis in fact. There are owners on this thread with genuine problems with their phones and it would help if people did not make statements not based on fact. Regards.

Well at minimum your wrong about it being defective because of the min focal distance. It is the way it’s designed and not some defect. Just wait and see some pro photo site will eventually confirm this. I’ve been into photography, cameras, lenses for years and they all have different min focal distances. I’ve had 100s of lenses. Now is it the best design Apple could have done? I don’t know but it’s not a defect maybe just not the best design. If some pros come out and says it is I’ll eat my words but I’m 100 percent certain it’s not. Now there may be other issues with af etc but the min focal distance is the way it’s designed.

 

[firoze]

Well your wrong. It is the way it’s designed and not some defect. Just wait and see some pro photo site will eventually confirm this. I’ve been into photography, cameras, lenses for years and they all have different min focal distances. I’ve had 100s of lenses. Now is it the best design Apple could have done? I don’t know but it’s not a defect maybe just not the best design. If some pros come out and says it is I’ll eat my words but I’m 100 percent certain it’s not. Now there may be other issues with af etc but the min focal distance is the way it’s designed.

Unless Apple themselves come out and say this is how the 12PM camera is designed, it is incorrect on your part to make this statement as if it were based on fact. This is just conjecture.

 

[richard371]

Ok let me rephrase that I feel with 100% certainly its not a defect. Does Apple ever publish the min focal distances of their cameras? I don't think so. We would need a pro cam site to teardown and analyze the glass etc. All lens have a min focal distance and the one is clearly about 4.5" from many of our tests. Could Apple have done better? I don't know as I didn't design the lens. Are people upset it was reduced this year yes? Are there possible focusing issues in ow light using Lidar? Yes think so and it can be tuned in software updates. There is nothing anyone here can say or do to convince me the lens is defective vs bad design. Its just common sense if all of them are focusing at about the same distance then its pretty clear its a design. With such a large sample there could be a few defective cameras in any phone but the majority are fine. Apple needs to publish this in specs but they don't.

 

[firoze]

Well at minimum your wrong about it being defective because of the min focal distance. It is the way it’s designed and not some defect. Just wait and see some pro photo site will eventually confirm this. I’ve been into photography, cameras, lenses for years and they all have different min focal distances. I’ve had 100s of lenses. Now is it the best design Apple could have done? I don’t know but it’s not a defect maybe just not the best design. If some pros come out and says it is I’ll eat my words but I’m 100 percent certain it’s not. Now there may be other issues with af etc but the min focal distance is the way it’s designed.

Well here we are - this is indeed a genuine issue with the 12PM. read this thread on the Apple Discussion Community:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252063233

For everyone's convenience, I am posting the relevant statement here. The Original Poster had the same close focusing issue with his 12PM. He called Apple support and this is what they said "I called Apple support on this- they tell me they are aware of the issue. They feel a fix will come out- when they aren’t sure".

So there we have it. iOS 14.2.1 does not fix this issue. Let us hope a newer version of iOS will fix it.

 

[richard371]

He may have a defective unit then. Most of them, which I feel are not defective, focus up to about 4.5" as I believe that is the min distance of this lens. Mine never has a problem with focus >4.5". Again some units are defective. Mine is not.