I will never understand why people repeatedly post about their non defective units.
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iPhone 12 Pro iPhone 12 Pro camera cannot focus up close
- Thread starter jin1212
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Prove to me mine defective? I can't find it. I think its pretty clear the min focal length of this lens is about 4.5" So any camera lens that your not happy with the min focal length is defective to you if its not advertised? They changed the lens and the sensor size of coarse the min focal distance could change for better or worse from the older ones. To conclude it's defective because your not happy with it is nuts. Again some can't focus at 10" thats a defect when most do 4.5".
Literally no one here is asking you to prove anything about yours.
People have an issue that they want addressed and one that Apple acknowledges is an issue. Simple as that.
I clearly said some people have an issue and some are defective. Not all of them are I feel certain of that but some are and Apple is aware. Bad design at worse on the min focal distance for the ones that are not.
If some of you will stop implying they are all defective because you don't agree with the new min focal distance I'll stop saying many are not defective until we get some concrete evidence from someone on what the min focal distance should be. Such a shame Apple won't publish this. That will shut many of us up that have phones that meet the specs. For now we just don't know what it is but seems like most are the 4.5 so I feel comfortable thats what it is. Again some are having issues.
Also many pro photography sites have reviewed the Max cam and "no one that I have seen" states they have focusing issues. They are far more pro than many of us here.
If some of you will stop implying they are all defective because you don't agree with the new min focal distance I'll stop saying many are not defective until we get some concrete evidence from someone on what the min focal distance should be. Such a shame Apple won't publish this. That will shut many of us up that have phones that meet the specs. For now we just don't know what it is but seems like most are the 4.5 so I feel comfortable thats what it is. Again some are having issues.
Also many pro photography sites have reviewed the Max cam and "no one that I have seen" states they have focusing issues. They are far more pro than many of us here.
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The 12 Pro phones had this close focusing issue which was fixed with iOS 14.2. Pervious to that many 12 Pro's also could not focus close up. This means that there is no certainty that the 12PM has an inherent hardware limitation that it cannot focus as close as the other 12's. Perhaps a future software update will fix this.
I have gone to the store to try out the 12PM, testing the min focusing distance of 12 Pro/12 Pro Max and my iPhone 11.
Both my 11 and 12 Pro have a min focusing distance of around 3 inches, while the 12 Pro Max is 4.5 inches.
I took a few pictures, observing the detail, field of view, the bokeh. 12PM's came out less detailed, slightly less creamier bokeh, and wider FOV obvious.
I also took a few shots with the telephoto lens, it is not for macro, despite the 2.5x zoom, the min focusing distance is at least 12 inches away, for that you might as well use the wide lens as it has much better details and noise level.
TBH the difference in detail and noise can be quite noticeable for macro shots when zoomed in, less so for the bokeh. So now I'm conflicted if I should cancel my order for the 12PM. I wish there is something Apple can do in software to at least to improve it a little bit (Note 20 Ultra has larger sensor yet it is able to focus as close as the 12 Pro)
Both my 11 and 12 Pro have a min focusing distance of around 3 inches, while the 12 Pro Max is 4.5 inches.
I took a few pictures, observing the detail, field of view, the bokeh. 12PM's came out less detailed, slightly less creamier bokeh, and wider FOV obvious.
I also took a few shots with the telephoto lens, it is not for macro, despite the 2.5x zoom, the min focusing distance is at least 12 inches away, for that you might as well use the wide lens as it has much better details and noise level.
TBH the difference in detail and noise can be quite noticeable for macro shots when zoomed in, less so for the bokeh. So now I'm conflicted if I should cancel my order for the 12PM. I wish there is something Apple can do in software to at least to improve it a little bit (Note 20 Ultra has larger sensor yet it is able to focus as close as the 12 Pro)
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Thank you for posting these detailed images. Your findings concur with my own, in that the 12 Pro gives almost 50% greater magnification at its closest focusing distance vs the 12PM. This is quite discouraging.
I realized my 12P is on 14.1 and it definitely has close range focus issues. Planning to run the update today, so I’ll snap before and after pics of something like a page of print and post them here.
For the Max it is possible the can improve the 4.5 min distance but there would need to be more room for the focus element to move more for a tighter shot. If its already moving its full range then I don't know what they can do. Its a bigger sensor and prob different glass then in the 12 pro etc so my guess is its just the design. Im sure there are some that can't even focus up to 4.5" and they definitely could be defective. All my shots have been tack sharp I just need to be aware of the 4.5" limitation.
It would be very helpful if you would share the before update and after photos. Look forward to seeing them.
Just to post additional reassurance, I had issues focusing at close distances and could confirm what others were saying in this thread.
Got an Apple update to 14.2 and it seems the focus distance has improved to about twice as good. Wish I had pics but thought I’d add my experience.
Got an Apple update to 14.2 and it seems the focus distance has improved to about twice as good. Wish I had pics but thought I’d add my experience.
I had both phones and tested macro on 14.1, 14.2, 14.2.1 on both of them. I was able to take fully focused macro shots on the 12pro, from a distance of 2 15/16” and 4 5/8” respectively, on all 3 ios versions using the camera app. But on 14.1, particularly so for the 12pro, it was extremely difficult to stop the software from trying to use the 2.5x lens which is always blurry at that distance. But enough attempts of zooming out by tapping 0.5x button, then 1x button and slowly moving in, I was able to sometimes avoid the camera software switching over to the 2.5x tele lens.
On Halide and Procam8, the iOS version was irrelevant, and with focus set to 0 (shortest) I observed identical min focal distance under each iOS for the Pro / ProMax respective.
14.2 mostly stops the switchover to the tele lens at close range (say, under 6”) but it still misbehaves occasionally and I expect further refinement there. I suspect the logic they are trying to implement is to determine the distance to the subject, and if that distance is less than the tele lens can achieve focus, employ 1x camera.
If there’s enough complaints I suppose it’s possible Apple puts some default digital zoom in the Max at short/macro distances, to make the experience feel more the same as the 12Pro, but that would be an artificial fix. Because it seems likely that the 4 5/8” limit of the 12 ProMax is a physical one, so macro shooters will be stuck with roughly half the macro abilities of the rest of 12 lineup (and any other modern iphone for that matter).
The trade off here is not for me so I won’t keep the Max. Annoyingly, this was an avoidable experience if only Apple would publish full cam specs...
Thanks for the update. Makes perfect sense to me. It’s too bad apple wont publish the specs to set expectations. I personally prefer the max for the size and battery life. I don’t do many macro shots but I understand many do. I think apple will make improvemts as much as possible to the software but I’m just not confident they can change the min focal distance of that camera.
Done!
So... based on this very unscientific experiment (hand-held, using a tape measure to eyeball distance): the minimum focus distance of the 12 Pro did not change from 14.1 to 14.2.1.
What the update addressed was the wonky autofocus behaviour—the iPhone was prone to losing/hunting for focus up close, erratically switching between lenses and not responding to “tap to focus”. The only way to reset autofocus was to pull the phone way back from the subject (or focus on something else.) So I can confirm that this sketchy focusing behaviour was definitely addressed in 14.2(.1).
Based on my measurements though, the 12 Pro’s MFD is still right around 3” (or just a little over that). 6S shot (taken at about 2”) included for reference. If some or all of these look a bit blurry, it’s because I was trying to get as close as I could and was using my iPhone’s screen to judge focus in real time. Backing off a quarter inch in most of these would likely have yielded sharper results.
One thing I messed up: the 2X comparison. I forgot to shoot a 2X pic on 14.1. This is suddenly significant to me because the Pro is definitely NOT USING THE TELE lens on 14.2.1. for close range subjects (tested by covering the Wide lens during these shots. Now we need someone who’s still on 14.1 to test whether the Tele lens was ever being used for closeups! If so, maybe the lens handoff algorithm was too messy (causing all of the focus problems of 14.1) and Apple’s fix was to disable the Tele altogether for macro shots? Just a hypothesis...
I took a “real world use” shot of my beat up Speedmaster with my 6S (1X) and 12 Pro (2X) for an idea of what I’m gaining/losing in this phone upgrade. For me personally, the 12 Pro at 2X is still totally adequate, but for those of you coming from more recent models with better cams (up to and including the 11 series) the loss in MFD could understandably be more significant.
As much as I hate to admit it, these findings do lend credence to the theory that these new 7-element lenses are simply not physically capable of focusing any closer than ~3 inches... although, as an internal optimist, I welcome Apple to prove me wrong!
Hope this helps resolve at least a portion of this debate.
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That just about perfectly sums it up (and lines up with my findings as well.)
Is it confirmed that the 12 and Mini also focus to about ~3 inches, or are they able to get closer? If the non-Pro models can get closer, that’s actually the only hope remaining that the Wide lens on the Pro could be coaxed to achieve similar results... Sadly, it’s not looking good for the Max.
Thanks - your summary is great and we seem to tie out comprehensively. I haven’t seen any mention on this topic, whatsoever, of anyone sporting a regular 12 or 12 mini. I’m curious now, but still expect them to match the 12 pro. 3 inches is not bad , perhaps not the best ever, but actually was slightly better than my iPhone X at just under 3.25”.That just about perfectly sums it up (and lines up with my findings as well.)
Is it confirmed that the 12 and Mini also focus to about ~3 inches, or are they able to get closer? If the non-Pro models can get closer, that’s actually the only hope remaining that the Wide lens on the Pro could be coaxed to achieve similar results... Sadly, it’s not looking good for the Max.
I wonder what will happen next year. In one scenario , the max technology is refined for shorter focus distance and all models deliver a consistent macro experience that meets historical performance expectations ie delivers same undigitallyzoomed field of view. In another (hope not) they iterate on the present ProMax sensor/sensor shift tech and spread it more widely across the lineup, with macro capability suffering more widely.
Remains to be seen, but two things are likely: a) Apple’s plans for next year’s phones are already locked and loaded, and b) there probably won’t be enough outraged macro shooters to make a difference to their roadmap either way.
While I can definitely appreciate the low-light shooting ability of the 12PM, I’m not sure I’d be willing to take a 50% hit to macro focusing to have it. 4.5” MFD is pretty busted and I feel for the disgruntled big phone people out there.
Incidentally your iPhone X also has a longer MFD than I would have thought. I had assumed the bump up to ~3 inches was a 12 series thing. But this is my first ‘new’ phone in a while so my expectations were admittedly about a half decade out of date.
Lastly, I started a separate thread soliciting minimum focus distance data from 12/Mini users. Only one reply from a Mini owner who confirmed it’s about 3”, so the science checks out so far.
Many thanks for posting these detailed images Johnny. Much appreciated. So looks like the 12 Pro's minimum focusing distance is indeed 3". From what I recall of my visit to the Apple dealer, I am quite certain that the 12 and 12 mini MFD was also 3". By the way, the white balance on your 6S is much more accurate than the 12 Pro. And I can confirm that the MFD on my iPhone X is 3.25" approx with the standard wide lens, and approx 4.75" with the tele lens.
I think people are conflating two conditions here which is causing some confusion:
- There may be some defective or out of spec units out there. These should be outliers within a single model range. Meaning, they behave differently than identical models due to some hardware or software problem.
- Some people's expectations (from previous phones) don't align with the new design. This isn't a "defect" per say as ALL the units operating in-spec will behave the same way. At best this could be called a design flaw?
I think one thing Apple COULD do is to develop a special "macro" mode or an auto-switchover that basically would just utilize digital zoom on the wide camera (without switching to the tele) to achieve a Macro-like functionality. You'd still be 4.5inches away... but simplifying this functionality would go a long way.
My pleasure.👍
And regarding the white balance of the 6S, good on you for spotting the difference. And here’s a surprise: it’s actually the 12 Pro that nailed the white balance in this instance. The daylight in the room was actually very warm (there’s a pink house next door that reflects a lot of warm, often pink light through the windows). The 6S tried to artificially cool down the whites to a more neutral temp.
By and large, my 12 Pro does a better job of capturing/reproducing true-to-life light, colour and dynamics than most of my expensive dedicated cameras. Obviously shutter speed and lens quality are still a long ways off, but it’s pretty damned amazing what this computational stuff can pull off in the literal blink of an eye.
Thanks. Good to know the 12 Pro has the better white balance than the 6S. And from the examples posted online I can see that the photos from the 12 series phones are indeed superb.