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If one wants to know the future direction of Apple IMHO one should look at the career of Angela Ahrendts. She took a designer, manufacturer, and seller of high quality clothes that were at the upper end of affordable but provided tremendous value and longevity for the money (Burberry) and transformed it into a "brand" that displays 2 or 3 styles of men's suits in a store priced at $2000-3000 (and which aren't any better than a Macy's $500 suit that I can tell) - and that is the most profitable clothing store in human history. That's where Apple is going.

Is that what happened? I used to buy a few Burberry "casual" shirts a year in the $100-120 range. It's been many years since I've seen one under $300 (and I haven't bought one since). The quality sure didn't go up at all. I just checked online now and they're pushing closer to $400 now. I find it hard to believe they're selling at least 25% as many shirts at $400 as they did at $100.

I used to buy a brand new mac every 12-18 months (alternating between a desktop and a notebook) and keeping the last 2 of each in service. My latest is the 2012 macmini quad core. I still use a 2011 MBP and I just had to pull my 2009 mac mini because it's not up for its job anymore. Coming up on 5 years without an Apple purchase, and I'd buy a new mini and pro tomorrow if they released something worth buying, but we all know it's not going to happen.
 
Where was it said "that anyone is entitled to have an Apple"?

Apple have always been more expensive than its competitors, that's not the point I'm making. I'm also not complaining about Apple being more expensive than its competitors.

The original point I made was that if people are happy to pay whatever price Apple decides to increase the iPhone to without questioning it then Apple will just continue to raise prices because they know they can. I can't see the logic in why people don't question it.

Of course at this moment this price is just a rumour.
At this point, I think it's just cognitive dissonance at work for the critics like yourself.

1) I don't think the next iPhone will be worth the price.

2) Other people do.

3) I can't be wrong,

4) Therefore, other people just be wrong.

I believe people do question, and they do weigh the pros and cons before making the purchase. I would say that they find that the phone is superior in ways that aren’t important to you, and that’s fine – but just because you don’t value the same things as other people doesn’t make the product substandard or overpriced.

You should be able to look beyond your own needs and tastes. Not everyone is the same as you.
 
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At this point, I think it's just cognitive dissonance at work for the critics like yourself.

1) I don't think the next iPhone will be worth the price.

2) Other people do.

3) I can't be wrong,

4) Therefore, other people just be wrong.

I believe people do question, and they do weigh the pros and cons before making the purchase.

You're arguing yourself into logical circles. Not a lot of people think a Ferrari is good value as a mode of transportation. A lot of people love them and buy them without needing to convince themselves they're getting a great deal. Lots more people would love to buy them if they could afford them.

Why do you need to argue and convince everyone that the iPhone is a great value? Compared to what Apple offered a few years ago, and what other companies offer today, the iPhone is a horrible value. It is a huge margin product with a very high price tag that returns very little of that price to the purchaser. It is absolutely not worth the price. But that doesn't mean nobody should like it or buy it. Many do and will.

Why are you forcing your brain into such asinine reasoning to pretend the iPhone is a bargain for the money. It most certainly is not. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Personally, I've paid over $300 for a pen, I don't think anyone would argue that is good value either, yet plenty of people do buy such pens.

Life would be pretty boring if they only things you could buy were low margin high value items. There's plenty of room for Ferrari and Waterman in this world. But they're not for everyone, and neither is Timmy's Apple. I don't see why that hurts your brain so much.
 
You're arguing yourself into logical circles. Not a lot of people think a Ferrari is good value as a mode of transportation. A lot of people love them and buy them without needing to convince themselves they're getting a great deal. Lots more people would love to buy them if they could afford them.
Except that's not what we are discussing here.

There's a huge difference between "I prefer a Honda because it meets my needs and don't think a Ferrari is worth the money and by extension, anyone who gets a Ferrari is an idiot and a moron."

Vs

"I would rather get a Honda for reasons that remain my own but recognise and acknowledge that there are legitimate reasons why one might prefer a Ferrari and opt to get one instead."

Why do you need to argue and convince everyone that the iPhone is a great value? Compared to what Apple offered a few years ago, and what other companies offer today, the iPhone is a horrible value. It is a huge margin product with a very high price tag that returns very little of that price to the purchaser. It is absolutely not worth the price. But that doesn't mean nobody should like it or buy it. Many do and will.
I sometimes have to check whether I have somehow entered an alternate reality where Apple never became the success it is today.

Why are there people still trying to explain away Apple's success when they should be trying to explain it?

That countless people continue to buy the iPhone (and Apple products by extension) show that there is still tons of value to be derived from these products (for these consumers).

But I guess it's just easier to dismiss these people outright as having more money than brains, than to actually make the effort to understand why they choose to make the purchasing decisions they do.

Why are you forcing your brain into such asinine reasoning to pretend the iPhone is a bargain for the money. It most certainly is not. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Personally, I've paid over $300 for a pen, I don't think anyone would argue that is good value either, yet plenty of people do buy such pens.
Because it is (for me, at least).

With regards to your pen, I would then have to ask you "What made you spend that much money on the pen, and was it worth it for you?" If so, that's good enough for me.

I personally wouldn't spend that much money on a pen either, but I realise that there are things which other people value and appreciate more in a product that I don't, and it's perfectly okay.

For the record, I don't think you are a moron for having spent that much money on a pen.

Life would be pretty boring if the only things you could buy were low margin high value items. There's plenty of room for Ferrari and Waterman in this world. But they're not for everyone, and neither is Timmy's Apple. I don't see why that hurts your brain so much.

There are tons of brands and products which aren't for me. I don't go around raising a hissy fit over them. Apple isn't peddling some crucial life-saving pharmaceutical drug. Why all the outrage over a potentially more expensive iPhone?
 
they'll definitely have a 64Gb model, but i can see the 128Gb and 256Gb as their mid to high end too

Hate to see the price of the Australian models :(
 
And it'll probably have a ****ing fingerprint reader on the back. Nope. Won't be buying this phone.

When I see posts like yours that are seemingly upsetting you because of touch ID being remapped to the back of the iPhone, I see it is that they have no experience with this feature and there reaction is of yours, because they don't have a full understanding if they will like it or not, so you're upset because it will "Inconvenience" you.

Then there are those like myself, who are open and willing to try new things. If mapping the touch ID sensor to the back of the iPhone creates reduce bezels and more display (Assumingly this will be for the 5.8 iPhone), I completely condone putting touch ID on the back. There has to be a trade off somewhere for why Apple would remap touch ID to the back of the iPhone. It's Just not everybody agrees with it.

And, let's not forget, we don't know that Apple is putting touch ID on the back of the iPhone for ALL the models. This could be potentially just for the rumored 5.8 OLED model.
 
Because it is (for me, at least).

With regards to your pen, I would then have to ask you "What made you spend that much money on the pen, and was it worth it for you?" If so, that's good enough for me.

I personally wouldn't spend that much money on a pen either, but I realise that there are things which other people value and appreciate more in a product that I don't, and it's perfectly okay.

For the record, I don't think you are a moron for having spent that much money on a pen.

The thing is, there's a huge difference between "This company is offering a great value product" and "This company is charging way more than the product is worth, but I like it and will buy it anyway."

A $350,000 Ferrari does not cost 17 times as much to make as a $20,000 Honda, so they make much higher margins. And the price/performance from the Honda is way better. Ferrari buyers know this and they are still very happy to buy their Ferraris. In that sense, Apple is like Ferrari.

An iPhone does not give anywhere near the same price/performance as a same-generation Galaxy S-series. You do get iOS, which I actually completely agree is much better than Android (having used both quite a bit), and for a lot of people does justify buying an iPhone (and I think people who feel that way are right to buy their iPhones). But that doesn't change the fact that an iPhone gives you a lot less phone for a lot more money and for that reason gives Apple a heck of a lot more money off each phone they sell.

I totally get why you say the iPhone is worth it for you, and I really do agree with you on that point and on the Android vs iOS issue. But when you compare the Galaxy to the iPhone, the Galaxy is a much more expensive piece of hardware to put together.

There are tons of brands and products which aren't for me. I don't go around raising a hissy fit over them. Apple isn't peddling some crucial life-saving pharmaceutical drug. Why all the outrage over a potentially more expensive iPhone?

Who's throwing a hissy fit? I'm saying Apple is selling a product at a huge markup giving you a poor value and them a huge profit, but clearly people are happy to pay for it. You're saying Apple is giving you good value for your money.
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Agreed, absolutely!

In fact, I'm going to hold out until the iPhone 9 to be sure the iPhone 8 remains the best iPhone ever made.

Timmy will say the 8 is the best until the 8s comes out. The 8s is the best until the 9 comes out, etc.

What you need to do is hold off on any iPhone purchases until Apple discontinues the iPhone and then buy the last model. Then you'll have Timmy's final word that you have the best iPhone.
 
The thing is, there's a huge difference between "This company is offering a great value product" and "This company is charging way more than the product is worth, but I like it and will buy it anyway."

A $350,000 Ferrari does not cost 17 times as much to make as a $20,000 Honda, so they make much higher margins. And the price/performance from the Honda is way better. Ferrari buyers know this and they are still very happy to buy their Ferraris. In that sense, Apple is like Ferrari.

An iPhone does not give anywhere near the same price/performance as a same-generation Galaxy S-series. You do get iOS, which I actually completely agree is much better than Android (having used both quite a bit), and for a lot of people does justify buying an iPhone (and I think people who feel that way are right to buy their iPhones). But that doesn't change the fact that an iPhone gives you a lot less phone for a lot more money and for that reason gives Apple a heck of a lot more money off each phone they sell.

I totally get why you say the iPhone is worth it for you, and I really do agree with you on that point and on the Android vs iOS issue. But when you compare the Galaxy to the iPhone, the Galaxy is a much more expensive piece of hardware to put together.



Who's throwing a hissy fit? I'm saying Apple is selling a product at a huge markup giving you a poor value and them a huge profit, but clearly people are happy to pay for it. You're saying Apple is giving you good value for your money.

Which then begs the question - who gets to decide whether a product is worth it or not to each individual consumer. Who gets to decide the value of silky smooth scrolling, or larger camera pixels, or a secure enclave for the fingerprint sensor. Features that can't be distilled into a benchmark or assigned a numerical value the way you can with ram and processor speeds, but which factor into the end user experience of the product nevertheless?

I remember back when people used to laugh at the iPhone for having a dual-core processor while their android phones had quad core chips. Until anandtech showed that four cores was actually slower than two cores due to heat issues. Guess what. Apple did know better, and didn't allow what might have looked better on a spec sheet into get in the way of what was legitimately better for the end user.

As a counterpoint, I will bring up a time when I had a bad case of the hives, and the doctor who managed to solved my problem was a skin specialist who knew at a glance what my issue was and was able to prescribe the right medicine for me. Something none of the other doctors before him could do.

This skin specialist charged way more for what turned out to be ordinary, generic medication. But it worked. That's what I was paying for - his expertise in knowing which medicine to dispense, not so much the medicine itself. Sure, the other doctors charged me less, but none of them could solve my problem, so it didn't matter that I was paying less; I was still flushing good money down the toilet.

Same with Apple. I am paying for Apple's expertise in knowing how to put all those parts and software and services together in a manner which affords me the user experience I do desire, something which no other company can do. That's why I don't care how little Apple spends on their parts; that's not what matters to me.

What matters is that I get an integrated computing solution which just works right out of the box. And Apple is still the only company who can do that for me. To me, my Apple products may cost more upfront, but they pay for themselves in the form of fewer problems and improved productivity overall.

Conversely, the galaxy phone might have cost more in terms of hardware to make, but if it still doesn't give me the experience i want, I see no reason to get one. I don't care for Dex, an awkwardly placed fingerprint sensor, a face scanner which can be fooled by a photo or gimmicky features like the ability to see what's inside my fridge. I am sure there are countless people out there who probably do, but I am not one of them.

To me, what's embarrassing isn't the fact that the iPhone costs so little to make. What's embarrassing is that the competition spends so much on the parts for their smartphones, yet still can't match the iPhone in terms of performance. Even if the iPhone cost Apple just $1 to make, I would still pay a premium for it so long as it continues to offer a great user experience.
 
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This is very realistic pricing, it's likely what we'll end up seeing.


Not when you look at the cost of the parts being used, which are, with the knowledge so far on 'all' the previous iPhone models, way beneath the actual cost of the given device.

In short, the iPhone is a wonderful piece of technology and I've no doubt this iPhone 8 will fall within the same category, but to claim that an smartphone is genuine well worth $1000,-, or even more, is like stating that Trump has enough intellect to be a president of the United States.
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A $350,000 Ferrari does not cost 17 times as much to make as a $20,000 Honda, so they make much higher margins. And the price/performance from the Honda is way better. Ferrari buyers know this and they are still very happy to buy their Ferraris. In that sense, Apple is like Ferrari.

No, Apple isn't like Ferrari. Because a Ferrari comes with a cost but last for decades. The iPhone comes with a higher prize tag and last for a few years before it becomes obsolete.
[doublepost=1494745863][/doublepost]I don't mind that Apple., or any phone company, is charging that much money for a smartphone. They are free to do so. Just like I'm free to decide that the cost of a $1000,- + smartphone doesn't match up with the value you get for it. The 'highest end' iPhone becomes more and more a smartphone for the elite, the rich folks who couldn't care less and just like to pay extra money because of the branding that comes along with it, like people willing to pay extra bugs for a leather bag which is the same leather as other leather bags but has a more famously known brand behind it.

It's just a matter of perception and what you, as a person, would willingly like to pay for a smartphone. I always buy a iPhone for myself and my girlfriend, but I'm not going to spend more then €2000,- euro's for two replacement smartphones knowing I could make a great vacation trip with that kind of moneyer buy a laptop with it which gives us even way more power for it's money then any smartphone out there.

I'll probably go with the iPhone 8 tough, but after the iPhone 9 has been released and the iPhone 8 will get a prize tag that does justice for the actual cost to make the device.
 
At this point, I think it's just cognitive dissonance at work for the critics like yourself.

1) I don't think the next iPhone will be worth the price.

2) Other people do.

3) I can't be wrong,

4) Therefore, other people just be wrong.

I believe people do question, and they do weigh the pros and cons before making the purchase. I would say that they find that the phone is superior in ways that aren’t important to you, and that’s fine – but just because you don’t value the same things as other people doesn’t make the product substandard or overpriced.

You should be able to look beyond your own needs and tastes. Not everyone is the same as you.

So based on your logic as long as someone out there perceives value in a product it doesn't matter how much it costs, it's still not considered a rip off because that person perceives value in it?

So out of interest if Apple increased the cost to $10,000 but a few people saw value in it then its still not considered a rip off?
 
Well, with this recent pricing policy I will happily replace my 5S 64GB with SE 128GB.

Then I will replace my 2010 MBP with the late 2015 MBP - you know, the one with ports. :)

And I guess I'll be fine for the next couple of years.
 
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A $350,000 Ferrari does not cost 17 times as much to make as a $20,000 Honda, so they make much higher margins. And the price/performance from the Honda is way better. Ferrari buyers know this and they are still very happy to buy their Ferraris.
That's what you claim, but I wouldn't believe for a second that it is true. If Ferrari could sell as many Ferraris as Honda sells Hondas, the car would be a lot cheaper. You could probably sell them for $100,000 a piece if you could sell a million or two each year - which you can't. If Honda built 1000 Hondas a year and not millions, they would cost $100,000 a piece as well to make any profits.

Now what is quite depressening is that we have a thread with 500 posts not about the cost of the iPhone 8, but about what some analyst claims the price will be.
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So based on your logic as long as someone out there perceives value in a product it doesn't matter how much it costs, it's still not considered a rip off because that person perceives value in it?

So out of interest if Apple increased the cost to $10,000 but a few people saw value in it then its still not considered a rip off?

Apple doesn't sell iPhones for $10,000, so that question is invalid. But there are companies that sell iPhones for $2,500 (gold plated). It's not a rip off as long as the seller says clearly what it costs, says clearly what you get, and doesn't have any way to force you to buy it. And the price that this thread is about isn't a rip off, because it is not what Apple charges, it is what some analyst claims.
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Because Apple makes a great product, I won't be upgrading either except in necessity. As long as my iPhone 6S still works, gets updates, is still supported, getting the latest and greatest is kind of foolish when your current phone is kept current. If my iPhone craps out within the Apple care period, I am going for the refurbished 6S. If it craps out out afterwards and there is a 7S option with a 256GB option available, then I will go for that over an OLED iPhone. (OLED screens with burn in I feel will be a problem) if no 256GB option then I will
Spend the $1k on this new iPhone. Not going to feel bad because I know it's going to continue to work well unlike the other phones I have had to deal with.

Note that if your iPhone 6S dies after your warranty and Apple care run out, you can still get an "out of warranty" repair for about half the price of the cheapest new iPhone 6S. "Repair" means the Apple genius takes your phone, takes a refurbished one out of the box, hands it to you and says "it's repaired". (They swap 16GB for 16GB, 256GB for 256GB, at the same price).
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I'm a sucker who buys unlocked at full retail. Is the total cost of ownership really that much greater? i didn't think it was, and I'm not tied in to a contract. Currently paying £15 / $19 a month for 7GB of data, 500 mins and unlimited texts. Which seems pretty good to me.
Keep in mind that most posters, probably including the one calling you a "sucker", are used to the US market. There you get a two year contract which pays for the phone. If they don't cancel the contract after two years, they continue paying the same money, effectively paying for a non-existing phone. Same plan in the UK, your payment goes down after 2 years if you keep your phone. If they buy a phone like you did, do they get a cheaper contract? No, they don't. They call you a sucker, but get ripped off by the US phone companies.

In the UK, your phone will be a bit more expensive because of 20% VAT (and the pound is awfully low at the moment which doesn't help), but the actual phone plans are extremely cheap compared to the USA.
 
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The thing is, there's a huge difference between "This company is offering a great value product" and "This company is charging way more than the product is worth, but I like it and will buy it anyway."

A $350,000 Ferrari does not cost 17 times as much to make as a $20,000 Honda, so they make much higher margins. And the price/performance from the Honda is way better. Ferrari buyers know this and they are still very happy to buy their Ferraris. In that sense, Apple is like Ferrari.

An iPhone does not give anywhere near the same price/performance as a same-generation Galaxy S-series. You do get iOS, which I actually completely agree is much better than Android (having used both quite a bit), and for a lot of people does justify buying an iPhone (and I think people who feel that way are right to buy their iPhones). But that doesn't change the fact that an iPhone gives you a lot less phone for a lot more money and for that reason gives Apple a heck of a lot more money off each phone they sell.

I totally get why you say the iPhone is worth it for you, and I really do agree with you on that point and on the Android vs iOS issue. But when you compare the Galaxy to the iPhone, the Galaxy is a much more expensive piece of hardware to put together.



Who's throwing a hissy fit? I'm saying Apple is selling a product at a huge markup giving you a poor value and them a huge profit, but clearly people are happy to pay for it. You're saying Apple is giving you good value for your money.
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Timmy will say the 8 is the best until the 8s comes out. The 8s is the best until the 9 comes out, etc.

What you need to do is hold off on any iPhone purchases until Apple discontinues the iPhone and then buy the last model. Then you'll have Timmy's final word that you have the best iPhone.

Just to pick you on your Ferrari, actually it DOES cost a hell of a lot more to make then a Honda, most of its hand built, it uses very expensive components and construction techniques, and it's sold in limited numbers, not millions or even thousands and thousands. So the overall cost to Ferrari is very high. Do you see Ferrari leading the FTSE 100? Or even their owners Fiat?
It's also a ridiculous example to use to make a point as the iPhone isn't hand built, and is a Honda regardless of the model.
 
A car analogy? Thats exhibit #1 in the Fallacious Argument Hall of Fame. Hey, $1k is indefensible, but if we use a different scenario, it makes things a LOT more confusing.

Just stop. Apple is going to get schooled if they try $1k. If true, this is an insulting, Trumpian first offer designed to test the waters of consumer psychology. Put the $1k towards therapy, any argument defending this ridiculous price is Stockholm Syndrome.
 
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If one wants to know the future direction of Apple IMHO one should look at the career of Angela Ahrendts. She took a designer, manufacturer, and seller of high quality clothes that were at the upper end of affordable but provided tremendous value and longevity for the money (Burberry) and transformed it into a "brand" that displays 2 or 3 styles of men's suits in a store priced at $2000-3000 (and which aren't any better than a Macy's $500 suit that I can tell) - and that is the most profitable clothing store in human history. That's where Apple is going.
This headline says it all: https://qz.com/905934/even-the-toilets-in-apples-aapl-campus-2-are-inspired-by-the-iphone/
 
I buy my phones unlocked and use them on a $30/month plan. The average person is paying closer to $100/month for their subsidized phone plan. How exactly am I being a sucker?

Yeah, I don't see it. I would rather buy a phone outright but I have 6 lines attached to the account so that's not really an option. They suggest paying $49/moth while trading up every year, which basically means they are paying $49/month indefinitely for what amounts to a rental phone.

If you ask me, the lifelong $49/month contract route seems to be the more sucker-ish route to go.
 
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Except that's not what we are discussing here.

There are tons of brands and products which aren't for me. I don't go around raising a hissy fit over them. Apple isn't peddling some crucial life-saving pharmaceutical drug. Why all the outrage over a potentially more expensive iPhone?
But you appear to be having a "hissy fit" right here. Just go buy your overpriced phone and stop talking/balking about it. It's your money - well, really, Apple's money - your pain or gain. It's a phone, which has come to mean that it also functions for overall communication and computing. Great. It's not a Ferrari. It's mass produced, mostly in China, just like 99% of its competitors' phones and computers. You don't mind paying more for it. That is understood. Your point is made, and your hissy fit noted.
 
Is that what happened? I used to buy a few Burberry "casual" shirts a year in the $100-120 range. It's been many years since I've seen one under $300 (and I haven't bought one since). The quality sure didn't go up at all. I just checked online now and they're pushing closer to $400 now. I find it hard to believe they're selling at least 25% as many shirts at $400 as they did at $100.

I used to buy a brand new mac every 12-18 months (alternating between a desktop and a notebook) and keeping the last 2 of each in service. My latest is the 2012 macmini quad core. I still use a 2011 MBP and I just had to pull my 2009 mac mini because it's not up for its job anymore. Coming up on 5 years without an Apple purchase, and I'd buy a new mini and pro tomorrow if they released something worth buying, but we all know it's not going to happen.
Good point. A phone is for communication, you can call and text. A company will not last long with overpriced products, period.
 
Except that's not what we are discussing here.

There's a huge difference between "I prefer a Honda because it meets my needs and don't think a Ferrari is worth the money and by extension, anyone who gets a Ferrari is an idiot and a moron."

Vs

"I would rather get a Honda for reasons that remain my own but recognise and acknowledge that there are legitimate reasons why one might prefer a Ferrari and opt to get one instead."


I sometimes have to check whether I have somehow entered an alternate reality where Apple never became the success it is today.

Why are there people still trying to explain away Apple's success when they should be trying to explain it?

That countless people continue to buy the iPhone (and Apple products by extension) show that there is still tons of value to be derived from these products (for these consumers).

But I guess it's just easier to dismiss these people outright as having more money than brains, than to actually make the effort to understand why they choose to make the purchasing decisions they do.


Because it is (for me, at least).

With regards to your pen, I would then have to ask you "What made you spend that much money on the pen, and was it worth it for you?" If so, that's good enough for me.

I personally wouldn't spend that much money on a pen either, but I realise that there are things which other people value and appreciate more in a product that I don't, and it's perfectly okay.

For the record, I don't think you are a moron for having spent that much money on a pen.



There are tons of brands and products which aren't for me. I don't go around raising a hissy fit over them. Apple isn't peddling some crucial life-saving pharmaceutical drug. Why all the outrage over a potentially more expensive iPhone?

$300 for a pen is actually not much. A quality one .

The problem is that if you are buying a $300 pen each year , of a certain quality / functionality and that pen starts being closer to $500..... so to maintain the profit margins cause less are slowing to deciding to purchase .... a $300 for more ... that is why the outrage over growning price hikes of apple products.

For me I saw innovation and price was a no brainier for me. These days I look at the likes of iPad Pro and see it as a iPad Air 3 and shake my heads at the stupid price hikes .... I see it across the board.

Apple can become a high end tech fashion company , many will continue to buy it, no problem, though we miss Steve and his innovation approach that apple was for all, and not just the very well off... under Steve apple products were well priced in my books.

Returned my new MacBook Pro , £4K..... nah.... 2015 model maxed out for £2.3k is value for me :)
 
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