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Nope, it didn't sell well compared to their other iPhones. However up for debate is WHY it didn't sell well. Some jump to the conclusion that it is "people just don't want smaller iPhones" when I think it is more of "people didn't want that particular smaller iPhone with those features (not pro, reduced battery life) at that price (only $100 less)". And even that is an over simplification.
Yeah, it was always awkwardly sandwiched between two other notably larger phones. If they used the mini form factor for SE 4, it would be the best selling SE, no doubt.

I only went from 12 mini to 13 Pro because of the 120hz screen. Way easier on the eyes. I would happily pay $1k for a Pro mini.

I’d be very curious to see which phones mini owners had before they bought the mini. My theory is that the mini brought down the average selling price because of people like me who downsized. Were the mini owners primarily SE, XR, and 11 owners who spent more for a smaller phone? I tend to doubt it.
 
Frankly by the same logic the mini sold not enough the SE also doesn't sell enough as its sales numbers are marginally better than the 13 mini was. I think it's perfectly fine to cater to 5% of your audience if that means that audience keeps buying new phones. I guess folding that 5% SE audience and that 5% mini audience into one product would have been a pretty smart idea.

SE buyers so far were fine with a smaller phone with less battery. Mini buyers were fine with compromising on some features and battery as well. I'd wager it's mostly the same audience - just that the SE crowd is more price conscious.
 
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In the past, all SEs used the A chip used by the latest base iPhone at the time of its release. The SE1 (2016) used the A9 same as the 6s, the SE2 (2020) used the A15 same as the 11, and the SE3 (2022) used the A15 same as the 14. Following this trend, if it was launched in 2025 it would have the A17.
There is no A17 only a A17 Pro which is only in the 15 Pro models. Apple won't use a Pro chip in the SE just like they aren't carrying it over to the standard 16 next year. I'm thinking the next SE gets either A16 in 2024 or the A18 in 2025.
 
About time they give it a modern design and size. Nobody wants to use tiny toy sized phones lol. That’s why Apple ditched the Mini. Nobody wants it except a very vocal minority. People want 6-7” phones.
 
The mini sold more units than quite a number of Android models. Apple just doesn’t want to bother.
I keep on crying, i love the mini for it's size and the fact that it's a fast phone. There's nothing wrong with that size and it would sell like hot cakes if the next SE would use that chassis or the iphone X size.
 
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...maybe the foreign market finds the Mini so unpalatable that they don't sell there (it always seems like it's Americans complaining about the missing Mini).
Mostly agree with what you said in your post but i really have no clue why it seems to be only Americans complaining.

I'd love to see (relative) sales figures on that too.

To me the whole explanation is that mainly Asian markets demands bigger phones but mainly western customers like the smaller form factor?
 
Sounds like a great feature mix of what most people want. The 48MP sensor allows for optical 2X. Everyone is comfortable with the 6.1-inch form factor by now.

This should be a good workhorse phone. The only concern would be processor. In the past, SE used A-series based on n-1. Now that regular iPhones use n-1, will the SE4 use n-2? If this launches Spring 2025, it might carry A16.
Im not everyone. Was yesterday again in the shop trying a 15. but it’s just to wide to use.

I also see not the point in another 6.1“. If u want you can buy them in multiple price points. 12, 13, 14, 15, and the pros.

Apple use the mini in a polycarbonate shell with touch id in the power button for $400-500
 
Im not everyone. Was yesterday again in the shop trying a 15. but it’s just to wide to use.

I also see not the point in another 6.1“. If u want you can buy them in multiple price points. 12, 13, 14, 15, and the pros.

Apple use the mini in a polycarbonate shell with touch id in the power button for $400-500

iPhone 17 will be 6.3-inches with 120Hz in 2025. The older models will be the iPhone 16 and 15. SE4 basically replaces iPhone 14. If someone still wants a single camera with notch, the SE4 is for them.
 
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If true, Apple is getting rid of the only two reasons I got my SE—smaller size and Touch ID. I guess I no longer have any reason to not get a flagship iPhone next time. Hmm maybe this was deliberate haha. But then little did Apple know I would have paid flagship price for a smaller Touch ID SE, giving them more profit. 🫤
If they replace Touch ID with Face ID, the price will go up, also, and probably quite a bit.

They could use Touch ID the way the Android-based phones do, or put it in the Power Button, as iPad has it.

Still, enlarging the phone to save money, to make more money, while pushing away current iPhone SE users sounds like a great plan.

Who will buy the phone, if current iPhone SE users are holding on to their phones?
 
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I see a lot mini complaints. I wanted to buy mini 13, but paying 800 Eur for 3 year old phone - no fricking way! I love the small form factor, and can see quite a few in the wild. But saldy I had to settle for iPhone pro 11. At least I got it for 200eur with 256, so thats okey.

I have iPhone 14 for work, and the battery last days! if the new SE has the same battery life (3 days or more), then it is going to be a great phone!
 
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This will be a great loss for me. iPhone SE for me:
- Compact size and lightweight.
- IPS screen without flicker. I can't use the flickering OLED screen on my iPhone.
- Touch ID. I'm nearsighted and I hold the screen close to my face. Is the focused radiation from the FaceID laser safe for eyes at close distance, especially at night?
 
I had a 13 mini. Swore I wouldn’t get a bigger phone. Caved and got a regular 15. The size increase is not that much, it’s fine really. I think the issue I had was actually weight, specially the 12 pro I had before the 13 mini.
 
Dang, I’m seriously considering getting a second SE 3, and keep it in case that I need to replace mine in the future.

If this SE 4 came with an LCD display, I would give it a try, but it will probably be an OLED device.
 
Thats great for many, but what about the MINI fans out there???
Mini lovers would need to assume that "size matters" finally... and jump to a bigger device. It's a pity that they don't use the mini chassis for this, but I totally understand because is too costly for an entry level product (mini screen is still the one with more ppi ever created by Apple) and it's true that the masses prefer big screens.
 
I’m 1.5 years into 13 Mini ownership and had hoped the next SE would be around the same size.

Evidently not, so I’ll hold out longer to see what happens.

I did hold the iPhone 15 (normal) in the Apple Store recently. It felt surprisingly holdable and usable despite its bigger size. Probably something to do with that shift in the centre of gravity they talked about.
 
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Id really really hope they have a decent iphone the size of the mini in their lineup in the coming years. I plan to upgrade from my iphone mini around 2025/26 and as it stands.. there is just no iphone that can replace mini.

I have a feeling ill be looking elsewhere. To be honest it might be a good thing… ive been really tempted to try other manufacturers for a while now. Just for a change.

I remember using HP smartphones years and years ago… i was so excited and playing with them. I miss that excitement in my phones now.
Same boat for me. But the panorama on other manufactures is not better regarding small screens, there are not much options there.
 
I'm not a shareholder so I don't care about Apples profits but this seems like a bad decision. The SE would cannibalize a lot of the non-Pro sales.

First of all, no one cares about the ultra wide angle sensor missing.
Secondly, no one (well, no one in their right mind) cares about lack of the 'Dynamic Island'.
From what I gather, those two features are the only things that differentiate the SE from the non-Pro models, except size on the Plus model.

And since Apple does not make bad decisions impacting their profit, this means one of two options is true if this SE, in this form, is released:
The non-Pro models will cease to exist and the SE will get a price increase
or
The non-Pro models will continue to exist and the SE will get a price increase

So regardless, it will get a price increase. I myself would never pay _double_ the price for "Pro" features, if those are only slightly better cameras, 120hz, and under-screen FaceID (vs notch). Few people would.

The magic of iPhone is iOS, the SoCs and the pretty good battery life. Not the other stuff. And Apple knows it. It won't come cheap, I believe.
 
There is no A17 only a A17 Pro which is only in the 15 Pro models. Apple won't use a Pro chip in the SE just like they aren't carrying it over to the standard 16 next year. I'm thinking the next SE gets either A16 in 2024 or the A18 in 2025.
You should reread my comment. I said the SE always got the chip in the latest base iPhone at time of release, not that the SE would get the Pro A chip. In mid-2025 the iPhone 16 would be the latest base iPhone and it will have the A17 (and the iPhone 16 Pro would have the A18 Pro). So if Apple keeps to the SE release convention so far, if they release it in 2025 it would have the A17 chip, just like the iPhone 16.

The whole point of keeping the iPhone 14 on the A15 last year was so that Apple can start putting the A(n) Pro chip on the Pro model and the non-Pro A(n-1) chip on the base model. I very much doubt the regular iPhone 16 would skip a generation and get the A18 in 2024. The A18 should instead be in the iPhone 17.
 
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