iPhone without Contract in Germany? - 999€ UPDATE: Confirmed + 600€ for an unlock!

[ebouwman]

Lets see how many $1500 phones are sold.

I guess the next law suit to be filed against Apple will be for charging too much money for an unlocked phone.

I have to agree the price is outrageous, but remember that t-mobile spent millions getting the contract for the phone, so they've gotta make some of that back somehow if they do unlock.

Also nobody actually makes that much money on iPod touches, theres such a low mark-up on them, thats why they rarely go on sale. But i'd like to know what kind of markup is on phones. I'm also sure that the iPhones price is subsidized by apple and AT&T/O2/T-Mobile, so really the price is making up for the contract the phone companies signed, and the subsidies that i'm sure exist.

But with that being said, i still think it's only work 1K or maybe less.

 

[gnasher729]

This is just ridiculous and shows Apple doesn't know a lot about europe. Most 3G phones in europe are sold for €499 and Apple wants to sell a 2G phone for double the price?

You are missing the point. Apple doesn't want to sell unlocked iPhones for €999. Apple doesn't want to sell unlocked iPhones at all. If not one single person buys at that price then they set the price exactly right.

 

[EagerDragon]

Why would any operator want to piss off their customer base at the demand of some american big company? I doubt apple could afford to have them do that... maybe a few tens of millions in the right pocket, and maybe guarantee to pay the legal fees afterwards...

Apple can control the phone through itunes already.

Has nothing to do with that, If the laws are just rigth ...;. Apple or the signed operator "MAY" be able to FORCE the other carriers to refuse service to "inlawful" devices.

I am not saying that there is a law that would allow that,,,,,, just saying that it it did exist, they could force/compel that option and as such eliminate the treath of the un-sactioned-unlocked phone.

 

[cameronjpu]

Yeah that's only logical, smaller = more expensive. But these few components are not nearly worth € 600.

So what? Since when does the value that *you* place on something matter to Apple? They clearly don't intend/hope to sell a lot of unlocked phones. Get it? So if it's not worth it to you, don't buy one! Duh!

 

[morespce54]

I sincerely hope so. I think that £720 for the iPhone is a TOTAL DISGRACE! Apple/T-Mobile aren't doing themselves any favours and should be ashamed.

IMO, anyone who buys the iPhone costing that much is clearly either too rich or totally dumb, or both.

Right. I mean, I had 5 different cellphones since my first one.

The first reason would be because technology changes (and for better - better reception, 3g, mails, web, ringtones, camera, etc). Which makes me think that even an iPhone owner is likely to change his phone in the next 2 years (more/less).

*Thats* make the iPhone (even the locked ones) pretty expensive... way too much for me...

Heck, 999 € is pretty much a new laptop...

 

[JGowan]

Can't wait to see how the Negative Media will spill out -- this, or course, shows "just how greedy and ruthless Apple is!!"

 

[elgruga]

Yeah right.. in flight mode?

That's at least 3-5 times more than any other report I've heard.

I get two days no problem, and it will go into three days, but I usually plug it in at night. The iPhone battery is exceptional, IMHO.

Anyway, why didnt Apple KNOW all this about the 'rules' in Europe BEFORE they sold the phone?
Or is this a way of keeping the iPhone in the news?

There isnt a single person on the planet who hasnt heard of the iPhone - here in Canada, where we have $399 phones smuggled from the USA, unlocked for free courtesy the Anysim people, I am beginning to think we have a good deal: no contracts, works on Rogers GSM, plenty of free wifi spots, and a small Data plan will give you enough EDGE to access Google Maps (easily the most useful feature) without too much cash distress.
I have not used 411 since I got the iPhone - Google maps is the 411 Killer!

Even the Rogers employees in Canada are talking about the iPhone when you call customer service! They all want one!

Apple seem to really KNOW how to get free publicity.....

The unlocked iPhone in Europe wont be 999 Euros - it will settle at a much lower price, after the court hearing.

But all you Europeans can get an unlocked one on eBay for $500, so why worry?

 

[goosnarrggh]

i don't understand this at all. apple can sell any product it wants in any way it wants.

Except that this case demonstrates that in certain circumstances, this is simply not always true.

One cannot sell a product with a clause in the EULA giving the seller or manufacturer permission to send henchmen to your house to decapitate your wife and children. Such a contract would be ruled null and void in just about any jurisdiction I can think of.

And in certain jurisdictions, one cannot sell a product that manipulates public property (the wireless airwaves occupying the GSM frequency bands) unless they play within certain rules. What's so difficult to swallow about that?

I think this settlement is a perfect example of them arriving at a compromise position that allows them to play by the rules, while simultaneously protecting their own competitive interests.
Do I think this price is higher than I'd be willing to spend for what I get in return? Sure do.
Do I think they're somehow being evil by setting that price? Not on your life.

 

[JGowan]

I sincerely hope so. I think that £720 for the iPhone is a TOTAL DISGRACE! Apple/T-Mobile aren't doing themselves any favours and should be ashamed.

IMO, anyone who buys the iPhone costing that much is clearly either too rich or totally dumb, or both.

Apparently, YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. Apple/T-Mobile are simply complying with a law but making it very expensive for people to do this. The secrets of the phone will now be out for hackers -- this is not ideal for them. They don't really want them bought, ... they make more with a contract. They keep their phone locked down. This was a last second decision based on an injuction/and or lawsuit that could've cost them millions. They're not trying to be greedy,… they just don't have much choice there in Germany.

 

[groove-agent]

I think, Apple lost a big chance here in Germany, and maybe in Europe, too.

A lot of people here want to buy a iPhone - but unlocked and not with this Contract. Apple could sell 100 (or 1000?) Percent more here, if they unlock it and sell it for a good price (not the 999 Euro!) without a T-Mobile-Contract. Apple could blow away Nokia and Sony-Ericsson for years. I can't understand, why they don't do this.

Originally I think Apple wanted to avoid having user installed apps on the iphone so their alternative was to have apps you can access via web on a data plan. I'm sure they wanted to have some say in the particulars of the data plan so they made a deal with AT&T and locked it down.

Due to pressure from customers and competition (Google's andrioid for one), they're realizing that they better open up the phone or people will go elsewhere (hence the SDK in 2008). They may still honour the carrier agreement in North America, but in other countries it might not be so entrenched.

I for one want an unlocked phone. I hate contracts but want the iphone. I had the opportunity to buy an unlocked one, but I still want to update it, particularly because there are so many features (like video recording) that are yet to come.

I would love to buy another smart phone, but i've yet to find one that takes as good of a picture as the iphone. If anyone knows of one, please let me know.

 

[elgruga]

Would you all like some cheese with your whine?

If you want an IPhone, go with ATT/T-Mobile/Orange or whatever, if you don't like ATT/T-Mobile/Orange don't get the IPhone.

I really want a million dollars.

Seriously, is not your b!tch

LOL! Quite right.

Apple is NOT your little slave to do your bidding. I think the iPhone/mini-computer/ipod is WELL worth the money.
If you dont, buy a frickin' Razr - they are cheap and crappy, if thats what turns your crank. Surfing the web on a regular cellphone is like playing guitar with oven mitts on, but maybe thats cool for some people.

I need $500,000 because I want to buy a boat and sail to Greece - damn, why wont Apple make the iphone into a 60 ft. sailboat for $399?

Why cant I get a free house with an iPhone?
If my girlfriend dumps me, can I sue Apple?

Feel free to add your Apple complaint to the list...

 

[samab]

Except that this case demonstrates that in certain circumstances, this is simply not always true.

One cannot sell a product with a clause in the EULA giving the seller or manufacturer permission to send henchmen to your house to decapitate your wife and children. Such a contract would be ruled null and void in just about any jurisdiction I can think of.

And in certain jurisdictions, one cannot sell a product that manipulates public property (the wireless airwaves occupying the GSM frequency bands) unless they play within certain rules. What's so difficult to swallow about that?

Except that the end result of a 999 euro unlocked iphone doesn't benefit the European consumers at all (much like the windows xp version without the media player).

What we have here is that Americans don't have layers and layers of anti-trust and consumer protection laws --- yet the American iphone is cheaper, the American iphone monthly plan is cheaper with more minutes and more SMS and AT&T/T-Mobile USA both offer unlocking codes for free (except the iphone of course) after 90 days.

 

[MacsRgr8]

Has anyone actually seen the "ligit" unlocked iPhone?

I wonder how they sell these (I'm sure there will be a couple sold..... trust me), and how they unlock it.
Does a store worker connect the iPhone to a PC or Mac and run the "real deal" unlocking software?

 

[Archie-]

I would love to buy another smart phone, but i've yet to find one that takes as good of a picture as the iphone. If anyone knows of one, please let me know.

You have got to be joking. Everyone knows the Nokia N95 with 5 Megapixel sensor, auto-focus and real glass Carl Zeiss optics takes much better pictures, and DVD quality video to boot.

yet the American iphone is cheaper, the American iphone monthly plan is cheaper with more minutes and more SMS and AT&T/T-Mobile USA both offer unlocking codes for free (except the iphone of course) after 90 days.

Thats just Apple trying to take advantage of Europeans. OTHER phones are cheaper, with better plans, and more useful.

 

[phalewhale]

Apparently, YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. Apple/T-Mobile are simply complying with a law but making it very expensive for people to do this. The secrets of the phone will now be out for hackers -- this is not ideal for them. They don't really want them bought, ... they make more with a contract. They keep their phone locked down. This was a last second decision based on an injuction/and or lawsuit that could've cost them millions. They're not trying to be greedy,… they just don't have much choice there in Germany.

Not sure how I "don't get it"? I understand that they are trying to make it expensive for the unlockers. That's what I complained about and that's why I think it's a disgrace. You say "they're not trying to be greedy", yet you also say that they are trying to make it expensive...

I just don't get you... Sorry.

 

[Death Warrant]

Think about:

They want to prevent selling the iPhone without a contract, but they have to do it because of the preliminary injunction. Then it's clear they sell it at a much higher price, to like I said "prevent" it.

I would do the same to prevent selling unlocked iPhones. They just thinking profitable.

If you have problems with it, go and buy one for Euro 399.- and hack it. No one said you need to activate it through iTunes with a Contract of T-Mobile. No need to worry about legality, at least here in Switzerland its legitimate to Unlock a Phone which you own and iThink in Germany is it like this as well.

iLaugh about this discussion here

 

[samab]

Thats just Apple trying to take advantage of Europeans. OTHER phones are cheaper, with better plans, and more useful.

There is no taking "advantage" --- because T-Mobile will probably win at trial (ever notice the german regulatior is completely silent on the subject, they are probably going to side with t-mobile).

The iphone launch in Europe will conclusively show that European consumer protection laws, various sim-locking laws, and anti-trust laws don't actually protect European consumers a single bit.

It was completely useless for Europe to force Microsoft to sell a version of windows xp without the media player. And it is completely useless for Europe to force Apple to sell an unlocked version of iphone for 999 euro. It doesn't help European consumers at all.

 

[Consultant]

I already have a 3G phone that regularly lasts 2-3 *days*.

Just because the iphone has a piss poor battery life doesn't mean that every phone has to.

Got any evidence to back up your claim? Of course, comparing phones with screen of the same size, similar functionality, etc. Can't compare a phone with 1" screen with one over 3" of screen.

By most counts, the iPhone's battery is exceptional.

 

[cloudnine]

WTF, that makes no sense. An iPod Touch with Bluetooth, modem and speaker/mic does not add that much to the cost.

Bad Apple.

At this stage an iPod Touch is looking better for me.

They're pretty much allowed to charge whatever they want... if you don't like it, I hear Motorola is selling this amazing device called the RAZR. Or is it the KRZR? Or is it the ROKR?

 

[groove-agent]

You have got to be joking. Everyone knows the Nokia N95 with 5 Megapixel sensor, auto-focus and real glass Carl Zeiss optics takes much better pictures, and DVD quality video to boot.

Don't trust the specs bro. Higher megapixel doesn't mean better picture quality. I looked at reviews of the N95 and compared pictures taken with both phones. The iphone has more clarity and better colour reproduction. I'd be willing to bet the iphone uses the same isight camera on the macs and i know they're capable of good quality as long as lighting a movement are kept in check.

 

[Consultant]

You have got to be joking. Everyone knows the Nokia N95 with 5 Megapixel sensor, auto-focus and real glass Carl Zeiss optics takes much better pictures, and DVD quality video to boot.

Nokia N95 is costs about $800 to $1100. Yes, certain "specs" might be better on paper but no it's not better than the iPhone as a complete package.

Thats just Apple trying to take advantage of Europeans. OTHER phones are cheaper, with better plans, and more useful.

Ok, for those who hasn't done any international traveling/business/trading...

Mercedes and BMWs, headquartered in Germany (but doesn't matter where it's produced), costs more in the US. German tools cost more in the US.

Products of Apple (based in the US) will cost more in other countries

Simple as that.

Also, if you think other phones are more useful to YOU, then you should get it. We are not stopping you. But if you are on the board discussing the iPhone, then you probably have SOME interest in the iPhone. Perhaps you want it for free, with free unlimited internet? What about free cell service? What about a free house?

 

[0098386]

For the $1100 price difference between the iPod touch and the iPhone you get...

I'd go for the MacBook.

Me too. No matter how awesome an iPhone is, a MacBook is a fully working computer!

 

[emotion]

You all realise that the €999 price is so that no-one goes near the device under those terms?

It's not an attempt to sell it at that price.

You all get that right?

 

[seedster2]

You all realise that the €999 price is so that no-one goes near the device under those terms?

It's not an attempt to sell it at that price.

You all get that right?

Thank you

I hate 's approach to the iPhone but they are entitled to sell it this way and thereby comply with this injunction until things are settled legally.

And for all of those saying Vodafone is greedy, they have a right to protect their interests. If they have to play by these rules T-mobile should too. Selling the iPhone doesn't existing regulations null and void.

After all people arent signing up in droves to get the sim-locked iphone. Over 5k people have unlocked iphones on Voda's network. So the demand is their for the iPhone, but as i asserted before this business model and old technology will have limited success over there.

 

[SFC Archer]

Ok, for those who hasn't done any international traveling/business/trading...

Mercedes and BMWs, headquartered in Germany (but doesn't matter where it's produced), costs more in the US. German tools cost more in the US.

Products of Apple (based in the US) will cost more in other countries

Simple as that.

Also, if you think other phones are more useful to YOU, then you should get it. We are not stopping you. But if you are on the board discussing the iPhone, then you probably have SOME interest in the iPhone. Perhaps you want it for free, with free unlimited internet? What about free cell service? What about a free house?

Totally agree...I think BMW and Mercedes are ripping us off too. I think they should lower their prices so that I to can drive a fancy car along with my fancy iPhone and then maybe we will all be happy