In France, the iPhone isn't exclusively tied to one network. Apple have to comply with local laws ( like they've done in France ), and the local law courts, or not at all. Primarily, its not Apple's call.
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iPhone without Contract in Germany? - 999 UPDATE: Confirmed + 600 for an unlock!
- Thread starter DaveTheGrey
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You are absolutely correct...so don't start screamin when that "unlocked" phone is the same price in France (% wise) as it is now in Germany. This is a shot across the bow France...so get ready.
The "law" will be the cause of your price, not Apple...Again, Apple created a specific product to be used a specific way and to have the privelage of using that product out of the norm is going to cost you or you just wont get the product...No one says they have to sell the iPhone in Germany or France...if they decide its going to be to much hassle...they will just pull it and you can use outrageously priced "hacked" phones that can never be upgraded.
Wish you all luck...I am happy with my "Contracted" iPhone with AT&T...Have been with them for over 7 years so the "contract" does not even affect me in the least.
Now what we need is the iPhone's computer potential to be unlocked.
As a phone it is boring. I want a touchscreen handheld Macintosh.
As a phone it is boring. I want a touchscreen handheld Macintosh.
heh heh! I wouldn't call it boring, buy yes - there is sooo much untapped potential at the moment. Roll on SDK
heh heh! I wouldn't call it boring, buy yes - there is sooo much untapped potential at the moment. Roll on SDK
Roll on firmware 2.0. I'm thinking big stuff will come from that including 3rd party app support on a sustainable, not-running-as-root platform.
sir..
that is the biggest load of crap i've heard today.
let me assume you have a point and shoot..
you say the iphone produces blurred shots.. yet you're further away.
which, of course, would produce unclear pics.
and if you're a photographer you would know that distance effects multiple aspect of a shot.
ie higher shutter speed needed. of course a shot from further away isn't going to be as clear!!!!
i could post 3 pics, as a photographer, and prove anything i want in any partiality that favors me.
Why should Apple not sell iPhone in Germany? Whats wrong with you people? Another guy in this thread mentioned sth about communism ways...I will start thinking that some of you are really ignorants...
We have a free market but consumers should be protected from greedy companies or from unethical ways to do business. I know that for most Americans, ethics in business is a difficult word but please! Give me a break here! I really think that there is a big cultural difference between Europe and the USA...Guess who is more educated and cultured....
Apple is such a great company, they created a revolutionary device and then what happened? Some idiots at Apple thought they could make us satisfy their greed....Its really very arrogant and it makes me think that most Americans dont even know where Europe is or what kind of history Europe has...USA is not the whole world. There are people living elsewhere you know. You should be a bit more modest....
I have bought the iPhone under the T-Mobile contract because I can and I wanted to have this revolutionary device. I know though that there are so many people out there that cannot! Its really a shame that Apple doesnt see the potential here...
I don't want to insult anyone here, I just get the impression that people here arent thinking that much...
Or the exact opposite is going to happen --- that we are all going to buy locked and crippled phones at full unsubsidized price with a contract.
You can go to howardforums and see the absolute silence of all the American fanboys who were talking about how Europe is so much better than US in terms of simlocking laws and other consumer protection laws. Now that the European iphone has launched --- they are seeing the exact opposite.
Europeans should question why they are paying for unlocking codes because Americans get their unlocking codes for free.
"Seems" is the right word.
What we have is Americans paying lower price for the iphone hardware, lower price for the iphone service plan and (aside from the iphone) American carriers offer unlocking codes to their customers for free after 90 days.
Apple's iPhone Stories
Same price "% wise", what does that mean?
I just hope Europeans get fed up with Apple's damn iPhone stories, and don't buy it.
After all, it's just an expensive, under-equipped (for a 1,000 euro phone without 3G) gadget.
I love the computers, but the attitude... I am sure it is going to turn a lot of people off.
Same price "% wise", what does that mean?
I just hope Europeans get fed up with Apple's damn iPhone stories, and don't buy it.
After all, it's just an expensive, under-equipped (for a 1,000 euro phone without 3G) gadget.
I love the computers, but the attitude...
I am sure it is going to turn a lot of people off.you're funny
the fact that apple chose to price it's product so high that practically no-one buys it implies the superiority of the us ways? alright...after coming to that conclusion you need to repeat it 50 times over, i don't know why, maybe so that you'd finally end up believing it yourself
Where is it written that you believe the codes are not free here? First off laws differ by country, so some may have to pay, but to be honest I've never paid for an unlock because all the phones I bought directly from mobile companies here came unlocked out of the box.
When I lived in the States all the phones were locked and you had to call and ask for them to unlock and they were not obliged to do so UNTIL the DMCA law was amended to allow for it, but even that is set to expire! Unlike you I have facts, http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/1201_recommendation.pdf
Also for the comments about Apple pulling out of FR and DE, why would they loose access to a potential 141 million active subscribers in both countries to mobile phones when they still can flog their phone uninhibited under contract or alternatively get their money up-front. Win win situation for them. I don't see your point, except that it's biased.
You actually blaming the crap iPhone picture on distance? The difference in distance is negligible! And the distance would not matter if the iPhone had autofocus of course, instead of using a fixed focus plastic lens, like those cheap disposable cameras at Disneyland.
The point of my original post is that all that talk of iPod Touch vs iPhone price difference does not make sense. And it's not just components, Apple has to recover R&D cost too.
BTW, remember when people where questioning why iPhone is not cheaper with the contract, before the USA launch? Well, looks like it is cheaper with the contract.
Hi paulo999, so if you growing your coke for $300/kg, how much to a fellow macrumors user
Apple can set the iPhone at any price they like - but they aren't do themselves any favours by pricing themselves out of the markets in this way - they'll lose sales.
I'm glad you like your AT&T iPhone bundle, its quite a price to pay if you didn't.
I'm glad you like your AT&T iPhone bundle, its quite a price to pay if you didn't.
you're funny
after coming to that conclusion you need to repeat it 50 times over, i don't know why, maybe so that you'd finally end up believing it yourself
Apple chose to sell the iphone at a lower price in the US and AT&T chose to sell the iphone monthly plan at a lower price in the US.
Apple chose to sell the iphone at a higher price in Europe and O2/T-Mobile (and soon Orange) chose to sell iphone monthly plan at a higher price in Europe.
Which side of the Atlantic are the consumers better off?
iPhone unlocked = 999. MacBook, never locked, 1049. So what makes you think Apple has any intention of finding someone stupid enough to pay that money for the unlocked iPhone?
I think everyone HAS missed the point. Apple is learning the hard way that the iPhone doesn't meet the demands of European consumers. It had some crazies join up just because it's Apple, but the majority are staying away in droves.
Apple's market is the ordinary phone user whose iPod needs replacing because the battery died, and their phone contract is up. That is it.
It is not the "Jesus phone". It doesn't even get marks as a smart phone. Customers are staying away in droves, and choosing existing brands.
Also, once your contract is over, you own the phone. What right has O2 to keep you tied to them? None. We'll have to wait 18 months before that gets tested in the uk courts, but I'm telling you, it will.
Customers will only come to the phone when Apple stop trying to sell it as a dream, because at the moment, only the interface saves it from being a nightmare.
February brings open apps, May brings 3g (£420 left on the contract folks). Apple have a lot to learn about phones.
If I upgrade before May, it'll be a N82 camera phone. If I upgrade after, it MIGHT be an iPhone, but only if they fix the MANY flaws.
Faye
Apple's market is the ordinary phone user whose iPod needs replacing because the battery died, and their phone contract is up. That is it.
It is not the "Jesus phone". It doesn't even get marks as a smart phone. Customers are staying away in droves, and choosing existing brands.
Also, once your contract is over, you own the phone. What right has O2 to keep you tied to them? None. We'll have to wait 18 months before that gets tested in the uk courts, but I'm telling you, it will.
Customers will only come to the phone when Apple stop trying to sell it as a dream, because at the moment, only the interface saves it from being a nightmare.
February brings open apps, May brings 3g (£420 left on the contract folks). Apple have a lot to learn about phones.
If I upgrade before May, it'll be a N82 camera phone. If I upgrade after, it MIGHT be an iPhone, but only if they fix the MANY flaws.
Faye
UK carriers charge unlocking fees. French laws allow unlocking fee in the first 6 months of the contract. German laws also allow unlocking fee before the contract ends. Netherlands allows unlocking fee in the first 12 months.
DMCA exemptions are only useful as a defense when you get sued for unlocking your own phone. It doesn't give you any additional right. American carriers have provided unlocking codes for free after 90 days --- even before the DMCA exemptions.
The side where they realize Apple is trying to price gouge them and dont give them any money at all.
Like the PS3, the iPhone is already perceived as a nice gadget that you would be stupid to buy, due to the poor value. When this 999 euro price becomes well know, this attitude will become even more pervasive.
Instead of iPhone owners looking cool, they will look stupid.
In September 2007, OnePhone UK submitted a response to Ofcom's consultation paper on porting --- and OnePhone asked Ofcom to consider clear simlocking guidelines including the specific inclusion of the provision of unlocking codes at the end of the contract.
Quote:
In conjunction with the proposals to facilitate the porting of mobile numbers, OnePhone believes it is appropriate for Ofcom to consider the question of Operator SIM locks, which can provide a further bar to consumers switching their provider. We believe that a strong case can be made to introduce and require UK MNOs to adhere to a set of agreed clear standards (as exists in many other European countries, e.g. Sweden) for the practice of SIM locking of handsets, so that there is a single unified & harmonised practice in the UK, with which consumers can become conversant. This should specifically include the consumers ability to be relieved of any SIM-lock after an initial contract period has expired.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/gc18review/responses/onephone.pdf
As of September 2007, there is no Ofcom sim-locking policy that forces the carrier to even give you the unlocking code at the end of your contract.
hmmm, the fact that the consumers are not buying iphone at the price apple chose to put on it implies that on one side of atlantic there're phones offering superior price benefit over iphone.
so on the other side of atlantic the consumers are better off because the telcoms have chosen not to sell those mobiles that the europeans prefer over iphone?
you're funny
after coming to that conclusion you need to repeat it 50 times over, i don't know why, maybe so that you'd finally end up believing it yourself
Just forget about that ridiculous ‘unlocked’ asking price. Just do the other math. $399 = 399 Euro and tariffs that are 400% higher compared to what is considered ‘normal’. Now work out how much 399 Euro is in greenbacks. And for the convenience of the one’s who whish to reply to this, just tick the right box:
0 Apple doesn’t force you to buy their products.
0 You can’t expect Apple to adjust their foreign prices all the time.
0 It’s their product and Apple can do what they want with it!
0 Don’t whine, Apple makes the best products in the world.
0 Micro$oft sucks.
0 Steve Jobs is my God.
0 All of the above.
Isn't Europe the side that allows Apple to price gouge their own consumers in the first place?
You have 3 national carriers in France --- that's very little competition.
You have 4 national carriers in Germany, but the German regulators have been protecting DT/T-Mobile (see the fiber optics case where the regulator is defying the European Commission).
And this is how American consumer protection laws operate.
hmmm, the fact that the consumers are not buying iphone at the price apple chose to put on it implies that on one side of atlantic there're phones offering superior price benefit over iphone.
so on the other side of atlantic the consumers are better off because the telcoms have chosen not to sell those mobiles that the europeans prefer over iphone?
Don't kid yourself --- the whole European mobile handset business is based on a VAT carousel fraud that is about 20 billion euro a year.
You are getting cheap phones because every level of the value chain (from dealers to distributors) gets some money off this VAT carousel fraud. The distributor can sell the phones to the dealers because they are making money elsewhere (on the VAT front). Then the dealer can sell the phones to you because they are also making money elsewhere.