iPod touch iPod touch 2.0

[mavis]

2. Why should this update be free? This update adds brand new functionality to the Touch. It is not your God-given right to be able to run third-party apps on the Touch - that was not stated when you bought the Touch. If you want that functionality - you should have to pay for it.

Let's see. New features are free for AppleTV owners, no subscription there. PSP and Zune owners have also seen a wealth of additions to those devices, in the form of free software upgrades. So really, expecting a free upgrade for my iPod really isn't that unreasonable at all.

But I will say this, it's a good thing Apple's sheep follow so blindly - if even half of the flock heeded Apple's own advice to 'Think different,' I don't think they'd be able to get away with this kind of robbery.

 

[MadDoc]

Let's see. New features are free for AppleTV owners, no subscription there....So really, expecting a free upgrade for my iPod really isn't that unreasonable at all.

That was Apple's choice and you should be grateful. They were under no obligation to provide you with the Take 2 update for free. I suspect it was done more for business reasons (to earn revenue from us renting) rather than an altruistic gesture but that was their choice.

You shouldn't expect anything from any company for free, aside from bug fixes, repairs of hardware faults or adding-in functionality that was advertised when you bought the product but wasn't provided.

PSP and Zune owners have also seen a wealth of additions to those devices, in the form of free software upgrades.

Good for them. If you like them so much why don't you use them as your sole media player. I suspect you are here because Apple's product is superior.

But I will say this, it's a good thing Apple's sheep follow so blindly - if even half of the flock heeded Apple's own advice to 'Think different,' I don't think they'd be able to get away with this kind of robbery.

I am not a sheep. I find that insulting. What ticks me off is people demanding things for free. Have you any idea how much time and effort has gone into making the SDK / 2.0 firmware update possible? A lot. All of this functionality is new so why shouldn't you have to pay for it? Apple owes you nothing. Anyway - people who own a $600 AUD iPod yet are too tight to pay $25 for an amazing update will probably just Warez it anyway.

MadDoc,

 

[mavis]

I am not a sheep. I find that insulting.

I apologize for insulting you, it was not my intention. It just seems like people blindly follow Apple and defend them even when they make stupid decisions like this that alienate their loyal customers.

What ticks me off is people demanding things for free. Have you any idea how much time and effort has gone into making the SDK / 2.0 firmware update possible? A lot. All of this functionality is new so why shouldn't you have to pay for it? Apple owes you nothing. Anyway - people who own a $600 AUD iPod yet are too tight to pay $25 for an amazing update will probably just Warez it anyway.

MadDoc,

It sounds like you bought your iPod for what Apple's PR told you it was - an iPod with Safari built in. That not what I purchased at all! I bought this iPod only because I found out about jailbreaking - as soon as I found out I could install the iPhone apps, plus games and other utilities, I went out and bought one. Really - I bought my Touch within one or two days of finding out about jailbreaking. Prior to learning this, I had literally ZERO interest in the Touch, because I thought it was an overpriced, watered-down iPhone, minus all the things that appealed to me about the iPhone (internet access through a cell phone network, mail.app, maps, etc) ... $370 for an 8GB iPod with Safari (that I can only use at home since there are no free wifi spots in all of Japan) sounded like a complete waste of money.

So, you're wrong about this being new functionality that we should therefore have to pay for. I've had a jailbroken iPod since day ONE, I've been installing apps on it since I took it out of the box, and I haven't had to pay for that privilege. Until now, of course.

Anyway, if you're someone that bought an iPod expecting nothing more than a music player, I guess you won't have a problem shelling out even more money for a software upgrade. Personally, I find it kind of pathetic that some people were too narrow minded to realize the full potential of the device they purchased, but then again it seems Apple was, too. But for those of us who have had full-featured PDAs since day one, this constant nickel-and-diming on Apple's part is getting really old, really quick.

You are right about one thing though - Apple won't be seeing another dime from me for software ... They can take their greed and/or shortsightedness and shove it up their you-know-what.

 

[aethelbert]

Umm, do we really need to go through this again? Sony and Microsoft have provided their customers with free firmware upgrades over the years which have enhanced the PSP and Zune, respectively - all for free. Apple is giving iPhone owners the new firmware for free, and they're also giving AppleTV owners new features for free despite the fact that AppleTV doesn't require a monthly subscription like the iPhone does. It all boils down to accounting and compliance with SOX. Now, I really don't understand why I should get the shaft just because Apple, in their infinite wisdom, decided to account for iPod Touch revenue/sales differently than they do for the iPhone/AppleTV. Why should I be penalized as an early adopter, when people who just wait to purchase their Touches will get the new firmware and all the new features, for free?

Sorry, I find the whole situation ridiculous.

I'm sorry, but I find the idea of having to pay for a firmware upgrade repugnant. Since I will likely be forced to pay (aka, nag screens in iTunes which cannot be dismissed without purchasing, a nice stunt they pulled in January) I am forced to seek compensation elsewhere. The best way for me to recoup my financial losses in this case is to steal software from Apple. Maybe if they didn't try so hard to screw their loyal customers, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

Dude, stop whining.
1. You're not dealing with Sony or Microsoft. Stop comparing them. If you want free updates like they give, go buy a Zune. They're updating their devices, Apple is updating an entire platform.
2. Are you retarded? For the millionth time, Apple gets money from iPhone subscriptions.
3. Most people rent movies from the Apple TV, thus being a source of income for Apple. That's all the update really added, anyway besides a new interface.
4. You're not being penalized. You're being offered more. You don't have to buy it, you know.
5. You're not being forced to pay for it. If someone asked you every day to jump off a bridge with him, would you eventually do it?
6. If you want to be a complete moron and steal software, then I never want to hear you complain about them charging for stuff in the future. Because basically what you're doing there is making everyone else pay more because you did something that low, taking funding away from future development.

 

[mavis]

Dude, stop whining.
1. You're not dealing with Sony or Microsoft. Stop comparing them. If you want free updates like they give, go buy a Zune. They're updating their devices, Apple is updating an entire platform.
2. Are you retarded? For the millionth time, Apple gets money from iPhone subscriptions.
3. Most people rent movies from the Apple TV, thus being a source of income for Apple. That's all the update really added, anyway besides a new interface.
4. You're not being penalized. You're being offered more. You don't have to buy it, you know.
5. You're not being forced to pay for it. If someone asked you every day to jump off a bridge with him, would you eventually do it?
6. If you want to be a complete moron and steal software, then I never want to hear you complain about them charging for stuff in the future. Because basically what you're doing there is making everyone else pay more because you did something that low, taking funding away from future development.

I brought up M$ and Sony because people like you keep trying to say that offering free updates and enhancements to existing products is unheard of, that it would be highly irregular for Apple to do so. Try to follow along, please.

As far as being forced to pay, when iTunes won't allow you to sync your iPod without buying the January app pack, I don't know what else you would call that. Instead of paying the thieves at Apple, I simply downgraded iTunes to version 7.5, but this is something that I shouldn't have had to do. So yes - Apple could very easily force us to purchase the 2.0 upgrade, just like they did in January.

And finally, if Apple is going to extort my money like this, I will absolutely do whatever I can to recoup my losses. I don't really care whether you think it's moronic or not, the fact is that I do believe Apple owes us this upgrade at no charge; since they're choosing to screw us over (IMHO), I will do the same to them, in my own little way. I refuse to spend another dime on their software, period. I will, however, continue to use their software because in most cases, it's much better than the alternatives.

 

[aethelbert]

I brought up M$ and Sony because people like you keep trying to say that offering free updates and enhancements to existing products is unheard of, that it would be highly irregular for Apple to do so. Try to follow along, please.

As far as being forced to pay, when iTunes won't allow you to sync your iPod without buying the January app pack, I don't know what else you would call that. Instead of paying the thieves at Apple, I simply downgraded iTunes to version 7.5, but this is something that I shouldn't have had to do. So yes - Apple could very easily force us to purchase the 2.0 upgrade, just like they did in January.

And finally, if Apple is going to extort my money like this, I will absolutely do whatever I can to recoup my losses. I don't really care whether you think it's moronic or not, the fact is that I do believe Apple owes us this upgrade at no charge; since they're choosing to screw us over (IMHO), I will do the same to them, in my own little way. I refuse to spend another dime on their software, period. I will, however, continue to use their software because in most cases, it's much better than the alternatives.

You can sync without buying the upgrade. I've done it. Also, Apple doesn't owe you anything except a replacement if your device fails. They're not screwing you over, they're offing you extra stuff at a price. Thanks for being a moron and breaking the law. Why the hell do you think that they write software? For fun... no. For money. And if people like you get it without paying, what's to make them want to write more software in the future? Frankly, I think that you're an idiot for deciding to pirate something before you even know what it really is and what its cost will be.

 

[stockcerts]

Has there been any discussion as to the approximate time frame 2.0 is due out? I personally think $20- is such an small amount to be arguing about. I will gladly pay it, and I'll never consider jailbreaking...bad choice.

 

[BrownManUPS]

Frankly, I think that you're an idiot for deciding to pirate something before you even know what it really is and what its cost will be.

The new software update could suprise us by being like 5 dollars or something. If we are arguing about principles then (because 5 dollars is not that much to give for someone who can buy 400 dollar play devices) you should realize that in principle as much as Apple may piss you off, mavis, you really shouldn't pirate their software in revenge. It really is being unfair to the industry.

So far, music is trying to be controlled, movies are starting to get controlled, and software is very controlled. And apple usually trusts people to not pirate their stuff, they give three or so releases on one OS X 10.5 disc, so that you can use it on your own house three times. Unfortunately people pirate it anyway, and thus causes apple to be more strict on future releases. It sucks.

 

[mavis]

Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.3 (JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

I brought up M$ and Sony because people like you keep trying to say that offering free updates and enhancements to existing products is unheard of, that it would be highly irregular for Apple to do so. Try to follow along, please.

As far as being forced to pay, when iTunes won't allow you to sync your iPod without buying the January app pack, I don't know what else you would call that. Instead of paying the thieves at Apple, I simply downgraded iTunes to version 7.5, but this is something that I shouldn't have had to do. So yes - Apple could very easily force us to purchase the 2.0 upgrade, just like they did in January.

And finally, if Apple is going to extort my money like this, I will absolutely do whatever I can to recoup my losses. I don't really care whether you think it's moronic or not, the fact is that I do believe Apple owes us this upgrade at no charge; since they're choosing to screw us over (IMHO), I will do the same to them, in my own little way. I refuse to spend another dime on their software, period. I will, however, continue to use their software because in most cases, it's much better than the alternatives.

You can sync without buying the upgrade. I've done it. Also, Apple doesn't owe you anything except a replacement if your device fails. They're not screwing you over, they're offing you extra stuff at a price. Thanks for being a moron and breaking the law. Why the hell do you think that they write software? For fun... no. For money. And if people like you get it without paying, what's to make them want to write more software in the future? Frankly, I think that you're an idiot for deciding to pirate something before you even know what it really is and what its cost will be.

It doesn't matter how much it costs, it's the principle. $5, $20, $100 - makes no difference. The fact is that it won't be free (for me, because I was stupid enough to buy a Touch before Apple pulled their collective head out of their ***) and that's what angers me.

 

[aethelbert]

Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.3 (JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)



It doesn't matter how much it costs, it's the principle. $5, $20, $100 - makes no difference. The fact is that it won't be free (for me, because I was stupid enough to buy a Touch before Apple pulled their collective head out of their ***) and that's what angers me.

You get what you pay for, which is not always everything that you want. That doesn't make it unfair.

 

[mavis]

You get what you pay for, which is not always everything that you want. That doesn't make it unfair.

Once more, I paid for a full-featured PDA and that is what I got, from day one.

I didn't need Apple to spoon-feed me a product description. Did you?

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

Once more, I paid for a full-featured PDA and that is what I got, from day one.

I didn't need Apple to spoon-feed me a product description. Did you?

But now you want them to provide you with more stuff--for free--just because you don't understand capitalism. Go buy a Zune or a PSP and quit your bitching; it's really tired.

 

[legacyb4]

Easier said than done. Up here, Rogers is the retarded cousin of the U.S. phone networks and is dragging their feet in coming to the table to play the iPhone game. Almost a full year after launch and we still don't even have a hint of when it will be released...

If you don't want to pay for major updates, the solution is simple: buy an iPhone.

 

[legacyb4]

I don't believe the licensing terms actually say that, do they? It's either one use or family use, isn't it?

And apple usually trusts people to not pirate their stuff, they give three or so releases on one OS X 10.5 disc, so that you can use it on your own house three times. Unfortunately people pirate it anyway, and thus causes apple to be more strict on future releases. It sucks.

 

[Jack Flash]

But now you want them to provide you with more stuff--for free--just because you don't understand capitalism. Go buy a Zune or a PSP and quit your bitching; it's really tired.

You guys really are great. Apple isn't going to show up and bring you a cookie.

I expect updates to the applications I purchased already for free. These are minor updates. I expect a store to be free. From what I've seen so far, nothing in 2.0 should cost me a cent. I don't OWE Apple anything. I am the consumer. Apple hasn't ever GIVEN me anything and I'm not asking the company to. I'm a paying customer and I spent my money twice now for this device.

I paid for the Touch at an Apple Store. I paid for the January Update through iTunes. Should I have to pay to update my January Update? Should I have had to pay Apple $5.00 to login to the iTunes store to spend another $20?

Do you not see where we are coming from? This isn't bitching for the sake of bitching, Apple is setting a dreadful precedent of charging for updates which is something that needs to be stood up to.

 

[BrownManUPS]

I don't believe the licensing terms actually say that, do they? It's either one use or family use, isn't it?

When you buy a family pack, you get 5 licences. If you buy a single you get 1, but in my experience it works on three machines (although I think its actually as many as you want).

Apple doesn't bother with keys and stuff, they just trust you. You can read a huge debate about it on macrumors here

 

[wizard]

...... Why should I be penalized as an early adopter, when people who just wait to purchase their Touches will get the new firmware and all the new features, for free?

Sorry, I find the whole situation ridiculous.

Sorry but I find your whole argument ridiculous. First off; if I by something brand new that is what I expect to get - yes something that is new. Using your logic the MBP I purchased last week should have the same OS as the MacPlus had that I purchased years ago. I fully expect new hardware to come with the latest and greatest software.

Second; your firm ware update was free and did offer up significant improvements. The only thing you had to pay for where apps that did not come with you iPod originally. So on this basis you argument has no merit what so ever.

I'm sorry, but I find the idea of having to pay for a firmware upgrade repugnant.

Ok so how many Touch users have had to do so? The answer is none. Apps are not firmware nor the OS. Even if you do want to argue that they are, the recent charges for the NEW apps on Touch where not part of an upgrade to the original firmware. They where an addition.

Since I will likely be forced to pay (aka, nag screens in iTunes which cannot be dismissed without purchasing, a nice stunt they pulled in January) I am forced to seek compensation elsewhere.

That is a load of BS and you know it. That is like saying Yahoo is forcing you to seek compensation because they have advertising on their site to pay for the service and as a form of promotion.

The best way for me to recoup my financial losses in this case is to steal software from Apple. Maybe if they didn't try so hard to screw their loyal customers, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

Well obviously you are not the type of customer Apple wants to have and frankly the type of person nobody would want in their community. Think about that some. Nothing you described above is something you had to do, it is just an example of somebody that doesn't care about himself nor the community he lives in. The simplest thing you could have done was to simply not covet the new software if you didn't want the expense. Self control is a wonderful thing in life.

Dave

 

[wizard]

You guys really are great. Apple isn't going to show up and bring you a cookie.

I expect updates to the applications I purchased already for free.

Which have been on the Touch.

These are minor updates. I expect a store to be free. From what I've seen so far, nothing in 2.0 should cost me a cent.

First off no one here has seen 2.0 and can talk about it. So you can't really judge its value right now. However the little bit of knowledge that we do have about it indicates a lot of NEW technology available to the Touch user. So this is more than an update already.

I don't OWE Apple anything. I am the consumer. Apple hasn't ever GIVEN me anything and I'm not asking the company to. I'm a paying customer and I spent my money twice now for this device.

Well if you are a consumer than you have to be willing to pay for stuff. You also have to be willing and able to spend wisely. In any event if you don't want to be in a position of owing Apple money then don't covet their software. You purchased something that worked fine and could very well leave it that way if you wanted.

I paid for the Touch at an Apple Store. I paid for the January Update through iTunes.

No you paid for new apps and features, the OS update was free.

Should I have to pay to update my January Update?

Yes!

Actually considering the attitude you are displaying here you ought to pay more. Frankly if I was Apple I'd find a way to make people like you pay 10 times as much as the going rate.

Should I have had to pay Apple $5.00 to login to the iTunes store to spend another $20?

????

Do you not see where we are coming from?

Nope not at all. In fact I honestly think you are a bit confused.

This isn't bitching for the sake of bitching, Apple is setting a dreadful precedent of charging for updates which is something that needs to be stood up to.

Just when have they charged for an update to the Touch. They charged for new apps but those can't in any way be considered updates. So really what are you whining about anyways? Do you really know or is it that time of the month?

This is a sad world we live in right now, where everyone thinks they are entitled to a free ride. Nothing is free in this world. If you want to continue to see products like the Touch developed you have to expect that companies like Apple will make money off the product. Further you have to expect that they will need to make some money off of the products support. The world is littered with the hulks of failed companies that could come to grips with a profitable approach to their customers.


Thanks
Dave

 

[Jack Flash]

Which have been on the Touch.

First off no one here has seen 2.0 and can talk about it. So you can't really judge its value right now. However the little bit of knowledge that we do have about it indicates a lot of NEW technology available to the Touch user. So this is more than an update already.

Going off of Apple's SDK presentation, there are a few updates to applications that have already been purchased and come preloaded on the Touch.

Well if you are a consumer than you have to be willing to pay for stuff. You also have to be willing and able to spend wisely. In any event if you don't want to be in a position of owing Apple money then don't covet their software. You purchased something that worked fine and could very well leave it that way if you wanted.

This argument is great. Time and time again the best rationale the proponents of Apple's price gouging can come up with is "Well, you bought it as an iPod with x, x, and x features." Guess what. I installed applications on my iPod in January. The device is now not simply a music player. I should not have to pay twice to get more applications.

No you paid for new apps and features, the OS update was free.

The OS update did what, then? Webclips? No. Rearrangable Icons? No. Lyrics? No.

Apple will give you a bump in spec number 1.1.2 - 1.1.3 for free, but any features and updates are nickel and dimed from their most loyal customers.

????

Apple is updating applications that we've already purchased. The only new item is the store. How much is Apple trying to charge us to spend more money in their store?

This is a sad world we live in right now, where everyone thinks they are entitled to a free ride. Nothing is free in this world. If you want to continue to see products like the Touch developed you have to expect that companies like Apple will make money off the product. Further you have to expect that they will need to make some money off of the products support. The world is littered with the hulks of failed companies that could come to grips with a profitable approach to their customers.

Nothing is free in this world, which is why I've spent about $357 on my iPod Touch thus far. I've paid my dues and I expect updates to the software I've purchased and I expect them, when minor, to be free. Apple is making tons of money on iPod Touch sales and please don't try to argue that the company is hurting for cash.

Apple sold me applications (and firmware) and when they fix issues the product has I expect them for free; I can't help you if you've drank the Kool-ad.

 

[Jack Flash]

That is a load of BS and you know it. That is like saying Yahoo is forcing you to seek compensation because they have advertising on their site to pay for the service and as a form of promotion.

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/02/13/the-ipod-touch-upgrade-are-they-bugging-you/

Ahem.

 

[wizard]

Going off of Apple's SDK presentation, there are a few updates to applications that have already been purchased and come preloaded on the Touch.

My point is that there is little reason to bring into the discussion what is involved in a 2.0 update because we simply don't know. Why get heated about something that isn't even released yet?

This argument is great. Time and time again the best rationale the proponents of Apple's price gouging can come up with is "Well, you bought it as an iPod with x, x, and x features." Guess what. I installed applications on my iPod in January. The device is now not simply a music player. I should not have to pay twice to get more applications.

Well yes you should be paying if you are getting more applications. If by your use of more you mean apps that are NEW to the Touch. Maybe the word more means something else to you, but getting NEW apps is not an upgrade in any way shape or form! To try to imply that new apps should come to the user free is just not salable to the rational. It is like saying the camper that you want to hitch to your car should be free, as after all you already paid for the car.

The OS update did what, then? Webclips? No. Rearrangable Icons? No. Lyrics? No.

If you don't know by now then I'd be wasting my time trying to explain it to you. Or maybe your argument is based on the denial that any update took place.

Apple will give you a bump in spec number 1.1.2 - 1.1.3 for free, but any features and updates are nickel and dimed from their most loyal customers.

Oh come on the marketed the Touch with a limited number of apps. Apple quickly found out that a lot of people where demanding more of the functionality of the iPhone. So they came up with a damn cheap program to get those apps to their customer legally and you complain about this?

The only thing Apple did was to respond to their customer demands for apps that existed on the iPhone. They did so in a perfectly acceptable way.

Apple is updating applications that we've already purchased. The only new item is the store. How much is Apple trying to charge us to spend more money in their store?

First; we have gone over this already but you don't know what is in 2.0. What has been made publicly available indicates a significant amount of upgrades, improvements and new apps. The tie to discuss the value of 2.0 is when it is released not now.

Nothing is free in this world, which is why I've spent about $357 on my iPod Touch thus far. I've paid my dues and I expect updates to the software I've purchased and I expect them, when minor, to be free.

And Apple hasn't done this? As far as I can see there have been a significant number of bug fixes in the various releases of the Touch software. I don't know what your expectations of updates is but I see it as very positive that Apple does see the Touch and iPhone as platforms and continuously updates them. The could just as easily have taken the attitude that the product is an embedded device and won't be updated or fixed. Something that wasn't uncommon in the past with some electronics manufactures.

Apple is making tons of money on iPod Touch sales and please don't try to argue that the company is hurting for cash.

I'm not sure where you keep pulling this crap from but I never said they where hurting for money. I will say however that their business practices keeps them from hurting and the alternatives are not all that desirable.

Look at it this way, when apple was hurting for money innovation like the Touch wasn't possible or was slow in coming. By sticking to their guns and maintaining reasonable policies, with respect to OS releases and product updates, they have been able to fuel a significant recovery.

Apple sold me applications (and firmware) and when they fix issues the product has I expect them for free; I can't help you if you've drank the Kool-ad.

When the hell did I say anything about them not fixing the product. they have in fact been doing that for some time now and doing that for free.

This whole discussion revolves around YOU and your demands for free software that was never part of the Touch. Trying to pull the train off the tracks doesn't improve your argument. No matter how you twist things around the fact remains that there have been multiple free updates to the Touch.

Dave

 

[wizard]

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/02/13/the-ipod-touch-upgrade-are-they-bugging-you/

Ahem.

They still aren't forcing you to do anything. You can make the decision to walk away from the device if this is objectionable to you.

dave

 

[Ubuntu]

Perhaps that's what you purchased it for, but those are, as advertised, features of the application package. As for the advertisement, there was a "No thanks" button on the lower left which put it to rest permanently.

I don't see it. Just a "Remind me later" option - which reminds me everytime I plug my iPod in.

 

[cbrain]

I may buy the upgrade.

 

[Jack Flash]

They still aren't forcing you to do anything. You can make the decision to walk away from the device if this is objectionable to you.

dave

Shouldn't have to deal with Adware from my preferred computing giant.