Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iTunes 8.2.1 Reportedly Breaks Palm Pre Syncing
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Yes
I had a palm device before my iphone and I was very happy to hear about the Pre, but when I saw that they promised iTunes support without working out a deal with Apple, I knew they were in trouble.
I had a palm device before my iphone and I was very happy to hear about the Pre, but when I saw that they promised iTunes support without working out a deal with Apple, I knew they were in trouble.
I would hardly say iTunes is easy to use. To me its bulky and not intuitive and lacking features other third party software does better. This is from a windows PC user HAVING to use iTunes for my iPhone
Huh? To the fanbois and Apple that may be sneaky/lazy but to most others it is a smart solution - reducing the number of software needed to sync is a good thing. If Apple has already got iTunes out and without special effort it syncs with 10 other devices out there - it is a great thing.
Sure Microsoft does not want Outlook to sync with anything other than Exchange - people already are building compatible servers and selling for free/less than exchange. If they deliberately made Outlook not work with those servers, they would be in hot water.
iTunes started out as a media player. Over the past 8 years, it added iPod and iPhone support. It’s still a media player, while Zune Desktop was created as a Zune syncing app.
See above, and because Microsoft doesn’t break things intentionally in their music software.
Exactly.
Before Pre/iTunes compatibility was hacked in, nobody seriously complained that iTunes didn't support Pre. It's iTunes, it supports iPods, understood, end of story. Nobody seriously complains that Zune Desktop doesn't support iPods, Pres, or anything else other than a Zune. Fine, that makes sense.
Then the Pre gets some hack-job fake-out software added to trick iTunes into supporting the Pre. Suddenly, Pre users expect iTunes to support the Pre (well, 'cuz it does now, right?). Then if anything subsequently goes wrong between the two, it's at least partially Apple's fault for not supporting the Pre properly - even though Apple never intended the support and didn't agree to it. Somehow, Apple is criticized for subsequently making sure the support very clearly isn't there any more than Zune Desktop doesn't support Pre - so why is it that Apple is yelled at but Microsoft isn't? same thing.
If I had a Palm Pre and I couldn't use iTunes to sync it, I'd complain and then write my own app to do it for me. It's a pretty simple solution.
Not true; Apple offers a number of legitimate ways for third-party applications and devices to access information in the iTunes library. Palm simply found a vulnerability and exploited it. Apple fixed the vulnerability... this is no different that a security update, only this one fixes an issue that wasn't malicious (at least in this instance).
I agree with most people here... why in the world should Apple be forced to ensure their software works with a 3rd party device that is ignoring the rules and masquerading as an iPod when it clearly is not. Palm was really stupid to tout this as a big feature.
I totally agree there!
One of the things that makes iPods and iPhones great is the ability and ease of use to sync with iTunes. Palm just skipped that step and used someone else's software to make their own product look better like you said.
Kinda cheap if you ask me!
Actually they are not long ways from being a monopoly. And the EU have already investigated Apple once and ruled against them.
It had nothing to do with Apple being a monopoly. It is an investigation into Apple having different prices on various EU iTunes stores and prohibiting EU citizens from being able to purchase from another EU store.
EDIT: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/216031bc-e131-11db-bd73-000b5df10621.html
iTunes + iPod has been a self-contained ecosystem since the iPod was launched. Yes, there was some early support for a couple other early MP3 players, but that was nixed when Apple created the iPod. That ecosystem has been self-contained since (much like Microsoft's Zune ecosystem). Microsoft chose to make Windows Media Player's syncing library available to third parties, but not Zune's. Apple simply has not made a media player that they want to sync other devices with. That is their prerogative.
Blackberry and other device manufacturers have had perfectly good syncing with iTunes libraries via the XML file. There's nothing wrong with using that method, and it's what Palm should've done from day one. Instead, they decided to be clever and gank an Apple USB device ID to fool iTunes into treating the Pre like it was an iPod. Risky.
The up for Palm is they could potentially take Apple to court for preventing interoperability—assuming they have the money and the time to do so. Seems to me that Palm is in the weak position here. They hacked in functionality that was likely to break without asking permission, and they're in a market position that doesn't give them a lot of leeway (they bet the farm on the Pre, just look at their balance statements). Plus, they've got a ton of ex-Apple employees, so it seems to me that'd cast some questionable light on their reverse-engineering process in any court case.
Still, everyone knew this would be killed. Apple has used their market leader position to drive down the prices of their own hardware (iPods are competitive with other products across the board) and to win DRM-free music for consumers (although individual song prices took an upwards hit as a result, though that's more the record labels' cartel position than anything else). I'd say they're not behaving like a vicious, anti-consumer monopoly.
Palm had the opportunity to do this the "right" way from day one. They didn't.
Blackberry and other device manufacturers have had perfectly good syncing with iTunes libraries via the XML file. There's nothing wrong with using that method, and it's what Palm should've done from day one. Instead, they decided to be clever and gank an Apple USB device ID to fool iTunes into treating the Pre like it was an iPod. Risky.
The up for Palm is they could potentially take Apple to court for preventing interoperability—assuming they have the money and the time to do so. Seems to me that Palm is in the weak position here. They hacked in functionality that was likely to break without asking permission, and they're in a market position that doesn't give them a lot of leeway (they bet the farm on the Pre, just look at their balance statements). Plus, they've got a ton of ex-Apple employees, so it seems to me that'd cast some questionable light on their reverse-engineering process in any court case.
Still, everyone knew this would be killed. Apple has used their market leader position to drive down the prices of their own hardware (iPods are competitive with other products across the board) and to win DRM-free music for consumers (although individual song prices took an upwards hit as a result, though that's more the record labels' cartel position than anything else). I'd say they're not behaving like a vicious, anti-consumer monopoly.
Palm had the opportunity to do this the "right" way from day one. They didn't.
That case has everything to do with intellectual property licensing rights and record companies, and very little to do with Apple. Without one unified "European" set of record labels (each label has separate offices/licensing/copyright arrangements in each EU nation), Apple is unable to allow cross-country purchasing.
Most people don't have program writing abilities... That's why they need software like iTunes...
You misunderstand.
You won't need another app to control your library. You can keep on using iTunes for that. You'll need a companion app from Palm to perform the sync operation--that's all.
That's why iTunes outputs "iTunes Music Library.xml" into your music folder: so that other apps can access it. Apple WANTS third parties to take advantage of their iTunes library mananger--but by the right method.
(The right method, as others have pointed out, is what RIM uses, and Palm should have--but instead they oddly decided to leave their customers in the lurch with a hack they knew was likely to break in future. Whatever the politics, PR, or just bad engineering reasons for allowing that, it certainly wasn't a decision that favors you as a Pre user. Now they'll have to do this the right way, and then Pre users will be back on track, using iTunes and their Pre together.)
The other (non-XML) iTunes Music Library file is the one iTunes itself uses. The XML file is a constantly-maintained copy of the data (such as playlists) for third parties to use. It exists entirely because Apple has chosen NOT to lock third parties out of your iTunes library.
Of course, if you want iTunes to offer other kinds of third-party support too, I don't blame you: http://apple.com/feedback (But don't hold your breath--iTunes and iPods are a system together, and a Pre is never likely to insert itself into that and work exactly like an iPod.)
Yes but Wine is developed by hobbyists and given away for free. If Wine had been developed by a company with the intent of making a profit from it, you can bet Microsoft would have come down on them like a ton of bricks.
But Apple shouldn’t be a bad citizen and intentionally break Pre syncing. Unless under-the-hood changes require it, it’s just bad behaviour.
Actually, no. If a company developed Wine without using Microsoft code, Microsoft couldn’t do anything.
If you don't have programming skills, you can hire people that do. I would like a bigger house and lack the skills needed (and the permission of my association) to do so. That doesn't mean I an tear down the wall to my neighbors house (shared wall) and not expect them to be miffed at me.
PALM PRE sucks
8 GB memory limit
No true apps - only webapps (so weak)
No voice and data at the same time (because of Sprint CDMA network)
No voice dialing (WTF)
No video recording (WTF?)
No voice memos (WTF)
No movie rentals (over the air or otherwise)
No visual Voicemail
No TV show rentals
No audiobook purchasing
No true app store (18 is a joke)
No console-quality games (like Resident Evil, Metal Gear, 1000's of others for iPhone)
No Peer to Peer games
No VoiceOver (the iPhone can read any screen to you, just like a Mac)
No native in-car integration (iPhone has this with dozens of cars)
No podcasts
Crippled copy/paste (for example - you can't cut or copy a webpage or any part of it)
No universal search (crippled - no e-mail search)
Tiny keyboard (iPhone landscape and portrait keyboards are bigger than Pre's real keyboard)
No auto wi-fi login (just jumps on any open network and remembers them all)
No 7.2 Mbps network speed
No Remote Wipe
No Find My Phone feature
Can't function as a Remote for the household stereo (Great for parties, especially with the iTunes DJ feature where people can request songs)
Weak battery life
More expensive than iPhone
Very scratchable screen
No oleophobic protective screen
No real music store (Apple can break the compatibility at any time and I don't want to take that chance)
No Voice Commands (control music playing by saying "Depeche Mode" for example)
No Compass
No multiple and customizable home screens like iPhone (Pre only has one screen)
No Parental Controls
No Video Editing
No onboard Ringtone Creation
No 5 person conference calls
No Webclips
8 GB memory limit
No true apps - only webapps (so weak)
No voice and data at the same time (because of Sprint CDMA network)
No voice dialing (WTF)
No video recording (WTF?)
No voice memos (WTF)
No movie rentals (over the air or otherwise)
No visual Voicemail
No TV show rentals
No audiobook purchasing
No true app store (18 is a joke)
No console-quality games (like Resident Evil, Metal Gear, 1000's of others for iPhone)
No Peer to Peer games
No VoiceOver (the iPhone can read any screen to you, just like a Mac)
No native in-car integration (iPhone has this with dozens of cars)
No podcasts
Crippled copy/paste (for example - you can't cut or copy a webpage or any part of it)
No universal search (crippled - no e-mail search)
Tiny keyboard (iPhone landscape and portrait keyboards are bigger than Pre's real keyboard)
No auto wi-fi login (just jumps on any open network and remembers them all)
No 7.2 Mbps network speed
No Remote Wipe
No Find My Phone feature
Can't function as a Remote for the household stereo (Great for parties, especially with the iTunes DJ feature where people can request songs)
Weak battery life
More expensive than iPhone
Very scratchable screen
No oleophobic protective screen
No real music store (Apple can break the compatibility at any time and I don't want to take that chance)
No Voice Commands (control music playing by saying "Depeche Mode" for example)
No Compass
No multiple and customizable home screens like iPhone (Pre only has one screen)
No Parental Controls
No Video Editing
No onboard Ringtone Creation
No 5 person conference calls
No Webclips
For your first link, Crossover is a commercial software layer that uses WINE, it is not WINE if of itself. A minor but important distinction.
EDIT ... looks like thats the same for your second link. WINE is licensed under LGPL which means that its derivative can be used to make commercial programs. That doesn't mean the original itself is commercial. WINE itself is free and sponsored by commercial companies.