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Justice Department Wants Apple to Extract Data From 12 Other iPhones

keysofanxiety said:
Also, you could tap every single phonecall and increase global surveillance 100-fold. That would surely help, why not support that too?
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Yes understood that the real problem here is that no one trusts the government agencies activities any more. That is a real issue that must be addressed. They are working outside of the law when instead they should be the one protecting it and working inside. But in the case against Apple I think there is a legal court order.
 
CmdrLaForge said:
Yes understood that the real problem here is that no one trusts the government agencies activities any more. That is a real issue that must be addressed. They are working outside of the law when instead they should be the one protecting it and working inside. But in the case against Apple I think there is a legal court order.
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Yes, there is a court order. However legally Apple can still challenge it.

Reason for edit: misquoted.
 
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So no precedent is trying to be established. Right. Got it. This is just gonna have to move through the courts. It's an important debate, just glad there is a D in the WH b/c if this was happening with an R it would have a completely different texture and many people would become completely unhinged over politics, not policy.
 
This is the slippery slope - a government trying to compel a private company to do its dirty work. At every step the intelligence agencies have tried to increase their power well beyond what is reasonable and specified in the Constitution. We'll look back at this period of history with as much embarrassment about our willful surrender of civil liberties as we currently look back at the McCarthy era.
 
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So how many Android phones does the FBI want data extracted from? Or is Android so full of security holes there’s no need to ask Google to unlock them? We already know the telecoms are more than happy to wiretap for the FBI. AT&T even lets them tap into their fiber optic network. Microsoft has provided the government with the means to compromise PCs in the past.

Just like the “slave labor” and “suicide nets” stories it’s Apple taking the blows while these other cowards stand back to see what happens.

Back to Android. There are only two reasons we aren’t seeing anything about Android phones...

1. Google is cooperating with the government contrary to their expressed support for Apple.

2. Android phones are trivial to break into and no court order is needed.
 
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vtbb said:
Reading a LOT of comments on here and I think the vast majority of you have no clue what you are talking about. If you are that worried about the FBI getting access to your phone in the event that they do create their "special version" of iOS for the San Bernadino case, just use a strong password on the phone. It's easy to brute force a numeric 4 or 6-digit pin unlock. But iOS supports alphanumeric passwords now...use a strong one and there is zero chance anybody ever gets into your phone (at least for the forseeable future). Nobody is creating a backdoor into your phone.
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There is no such thing as "zero chance".

I'm not worried about this being used by the FBI to gain access to my phone using the method they're proposing in the San Bernadino case. I don't have any data on my phone related to terrorism, or any crime that I'm aware of.

I'm worried because the legal source of the authority they're citing is the "All Writs Act". I looked that up, and it is very broad. The courts "may issue all writs necessary or appropriate in aid of their respective jurisdictions and agreeable to the usages and principles of law". If the courts use this as justification, then it's not about terrorism. Terrorism is irrelevant. The magistrate who issued the court order picked a law that has already been cited in a case of credit card fraud.

It could be used to force you to turn over your phone and unlock it in a case involving a speeding ticket. Refusing to unlock it could put you in a jail cell with Tim Cook. Using strong passwords that the FBI can't crack or building a phone that uses strong passwords could become a crime in itself.

Several states are considering legislation that will require companies like Apple to add a true back door for law enforcement to use to get around your passcode, no matter how strong you make it. Your passcode is not the encryption key. It's just the key that the iPhone uses to access the iOS-created encryption key. So Apple could easily design a future version of iOS that will use either your passcode or the governments' (The US government, or any other government) master password to get to the encryption key.
 
koulmj said:
I guess I don't understand why just over half of the people polled by CNN say they think apple should help the FBI get into phones, but almost NO ONE liked the NSA information on listening to citizens domestically, what's up?
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FEAR. The terrorists are coming for your kids and they are all muslim.
Keep it in this narrow scope and you can get people to vote for anything you want - reality is irrelevant.
 
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MacRumors said:



DOJ-iPhone.jpg
The U.S. Department of Justice is pursuing additional court orders that would force Apple to help federal investigators extract data from twelve other encrypted iPhones that may contain crime-related evidence, according to The Wall Street Journal.

The revelation comes nearly one week after a U.S. federal judge ordered Apple to assist the FBI with unlocking an iPhone belonging to suspected San Bernardino terrorist Syed Rizwan Farook. Apple strongly opposed the court order last week in an open letter to customers.

The twelve cases are similar to the San Bernardino case in that prosecutors have sought to use the 18th-century All Writs Act to force Apple to comply, but none are related to terrorism charges and most involve older versions of iOS software.

In the past, Apple has extracted data from iPhones under lawful court orders, but the company stopped storing encryption keys for devices running iOS 8 or later. As a result of this stronger protection, Apple cannot assist the FBI without circumventing iOS security and putting the privacy and safety of its customers at risk.

Apple has acknowledged that creating a "government-ordered backdoor" is technically possible, but CEO Tim Cook said cooperating with the FBI would set a "very dangerous precedent." Apple said it has "done everything that's both within our power and within the law to help in this case," adding that it has "no sympathy for terrorists."

The U.S. government previously said that investigators are only seeking access to a single iPhone related to the San Bernardino attacks, but Apple argued that the technique could be "used over and over again, on any number of devices" once created. "The only way to guarantee that such a powerful tool isn't abused and doesn't fall into the wrong hands is to never create it," the company said.

The Apple-FBI dispute has fueled a public debate over the past week. Google, Facebook, Twitter and some campaigners have publicly backed Apple, while U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump, Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates and some San Bernardino victims have sided with the FBI.

Apple has until Friday, February 26 to file its first legal arguments in a California court.

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Justice Department Wants Apple to Extract Data From 12 Other iPhones
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oops
 
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akadafni said:
Th solution to the San Bernadino case is this:

1. Get an IPhone 5c
2. Install the same exact iOS version that it's running
3. Restore the most current iCloud backup. The backup preserves all the settings.
4. Attempt brute force 10 times to see if it will auto erase
5. If it doesn't auto erase, then the government can take their time trying the brute force method. The auto erase is not set by default
6. If it does auto erase then back to square one FBI
7. The good thing is if the device is disabled, they can always make an emergency call to get help from the San Bernadino PD

8. Last resort, ask Siri. Lol
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lol i like that last one thats funny
 
CmdrLaForge said:
Yes understood that the real problem here is that no one trusts the government agencies activities any more. That is a real issue that must be addressed. They are working outside of the law when instead they should be the one protecting it and working inside. But in the case against Apple I think there is a legal court order.
Click to expand...

Anymore? The entire Bill of Rights happened because many didn't trust the idea of an all encompassing government and enough states would not sign the Constitution unless there was a brake on what gov't could do. That was back in the 1780s.

In the case of Apple the situation is still at the lowest of judiciary levels. Many appeals to come by one side or the other. So yes, there is a court order but it's anything but final right now.
 
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lchlch said:
Note: the backdoor the fbi wants is without the mandatory 80ms delay.

Assuming a 8 character password it would be 218 trillion combinations. With a super computer it wouldn't take that long to try all combinations.
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Isn't the 80ms delay the amount of time it takes the phone to try to decrypt the key using the passcode? I don't believe it can go any faster. The FBI wants the increasing delay to be removed (and the ability to try passcodes over bluetooth/usb so they can automate it and run it as fast as possible).
 
lchlch said:
Yes, there is a court order. However legally Apple can still challenge it.
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Then Apple should do just that. Engage its lawyers and fight the court order. But they decided to drag that out into the public. Now we are discussing their opinion.

mox358 said:
I'm stunned as to why you trust a government that has repeatedly proven themselves untrustworthy? Do you not like your freedom?
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I already replied to that notion:

CmdrLaForge said:
Yes understood that the real problem here is that no one trusts the government agencies activities any more. That is a real issue that must be addressed. They are working outside of the law when instead they should be the one protecting it and working inside. But in the case against Apple I think there is a legal court order.
Click to expand...
 
kc2kth said:
This is precisely what we all have been saying. Simply creating this backdoor opens the floodgates for it to happen everywhere. Some things simply shouldn't be created even if we have the ability to create them.
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Ayep I believe a few dozen threads ago
( I lost count how many there have been as honestly this is a non issue that shouldn't be up for so much debate )

I believe I once likened this to the Feds essentially wanting to open Pandora's Box

( no not the radio/music service before anyone actually quotes me with that :rolleyes: )
 
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vtbb said:
Reading a LOT of comments on here and I think the vast majority of you have no clue what you are talking about. If you are that worried about the FBI getting access to your phone in the event that they do create their "special version" of iOS for the San Bernadino case, just use a strong password on the phone. It's easy to brute force a numeric 4 or 6-digit pin unlock. But iOS supports alphanumeric passwords now...use a strong one and there is zero chance anybody ever gets into your phone (at least for the forseeable future). Nobody is creating a backdoor into your phone.
Click to expand...

Methinks you are missing a whole lot of what the FBI is asking for. Go back and read the original writ.
 
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vtbb said:
Reading a LOT of comments on here and I think the vast majority of you have no clue what you are talking about. If you are that worried about the FBI getting access to your phone in the event that they do create their "special version" of iOS for the San Bernadino case, just use a strong password on the phone. It's easy to brute force a numeric 4 or 6-digit pin unlock. But iOS supports alphanumeric passwords now...use a strong one and there is zero chance anybody ever gets into your phone (at least for the forseeable future). Nobody is creating a backdoor into your phone.
Click to expand...
LMAO at your comment/thinking.
If there is an unlimited tries option there will be a bypass password as well
 
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