What's worse is when counter arguments claiming like if we don't take this MBP design as is, we are hindering improvements in not wanting Kaby Lake, DCI-P3, TB3 altogether, as if Apple couldn't have put those into the 2015 chassis, had they wanted to.
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Keyboard - Nail in the Coffin
- Thread starter CaptRB
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I have the 2017 MBP 13” and so far so good, but this thread is indeed putting a little worry in my head. Any data on the rate of this issue? 1% or 5%? Any ideas?
Apple will never say. Their strategy is to kill any news that might make them look bad, or result in a mass legal action or need for product recall.
I did a google trends comparison of keyboard issues between 2015 and 2017 and the results are stark.
The tech genius at Apple Covent Garden let slip that "the repair rooms are full of them".
Only Apple knows, equally I have never seen so much traffic regarding a Mac's keyboard, nor is Apple ever going to be forthcoming rather very much the opposite as it did with the MBP 2011 dGPU debacle. You just need to make a decision yourself, some have issue, some don't, however once out of warranty the repair is indeed costly.
Personally I wont purchase the new MBP for several reasons the reliability of the keyboard being right up there. As I've stated previously I find it absolutely ridiculous that Apple did not adequately test the keyboard prior launch, just smacks of incompetence and a complete disregard for the customer. Every 15" I have tried has had uneven key loading, especially if hot from heavy workload, nor worth wasting my time to review again until the next update in 2018.
One of the major triggers for me is the number of people who are having repeat issues, which rather lends to the problem being temperature/workload related coupled with inadequate design rather than a few non-conforming units getting passed QC.
Apple needs to get off it's high horse and stop with the corporate hubris, openly and publically recognise it's mistakes and provide solid solutions that don't involve the same poorly designed components over and over again. Currently all Apple is doing is just burning it's credibility in many circles...
Q-6
I was a convert to Apple with the 2015 MBP.
With the 2017 which I regret buying, and with Apple's arrogant behaviour.. I have lost that magic and loyalty. I am looking at a Lenovo's ThinkPad W series or Dell's Precision series.. their "pro" devices.
In 20 years of working in tech I've never had such a bad experience of corporate behaviour from Dell nor IBM/Lenovo. And their devices didn't fail is such a serious way. 20 years isn't just luck .. it's a reflection of how Dell and IBM/Lenovo operate compared to Apple. They're not perfect, but right now Apple is really bad.
I simply wont entertain Apple now as they are just producing toy's to impress, rather than tools that deliver, the KB is little more than a distasteful joke if not gross stupidity, and I've been with the Mac for decades...
As a direct result I no longer use the Mac professionally as we say "your only as good as your last job" and frankly Apple's is currently piss poor...
Q-6
This sadly has been the state of Apple for years now. What pisses me the most is OSX and iOS had always been the smoothest performing OSes with constant 60fps on all platforms, those days left us ever since this new "design language" took over. Now it's just jitters all over the place. My 4+ years old Windows 10 machines at work runs smoother with maybe 1/4 of the hardware power than my (upgraded to almost max) cheese grater Mac Pro on 10.12.6... I heard High Sierra is a bit better with metal 2? I simply do not trust Apple with pre .5 OSes nowadays...
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The fact that this is even a concern is laughable to me. I've never ever in my life been concerned with "failure rate of keyboards" before. I have a fairly ridiculous collection of keyboards from years of tech purchases, a lot of them are ****, but none of them broke.
Totally agree, and yet some people try to downplay it by claiming that it's the problem of a small minority and that most users are just fine.
First, that's not the point: if you haven't been hit, then good for you, but a basic piece of hardware like a keyboard should never be a failure point to begin with, not even on a budget machine, let alone a premium one. Second, I seriously doubt percentages are so low, as we are just one year into the redesign and yet Apple techs are already starting to admit that they have their hands full with repairs. And with the warranties on the first 2016 units expiring soon, I have the feeling that the issue is only going to escalate....
In the past we have had lesser "wide spread" issues on older Macs that got class action lawsuits, and then Apple had no choice but to offer world wide free repair program afterwards. Unlike staingate, KB is such a basic and necessary part of the device, we can pretty much expect that to happen, perhaps for many years down.
The 2017 was already released unexpectedly soon, yet they haven't implemented a full fix or maintained a less failure prone iteration from the 2016. I don't know where Apple can even go after this, if they back pedal to the "thicker" KB they will get bad press. If they stick with buttery switches then they have to perfect it (if they even can).
The 2017 was already released unexpectedly soon, yet they haven't implemented a full fix or maintained a less failure prone iteration from the 2016. I don't know where Apple can even go after this, if they back pedal to the "thicker" KB they will get bad press. If they stick with buttery switches then they have to perfect it (if they even can).
"I don't know where Apple can even go after this, if they back pedal to the "thicker" KB they will get bad press."
I don't see this as being the case, if they manage the issue properly.
They should advertise the "older" keyboard in the new models as "a traditionally-proven design, back by popular demand!" ...
I don't see this as being the case, if they manage the issue properly.
They should advertise the "older" keyboard in the new models as "a traditionally-proven design, back by popular demand!" ...
I have the 2017 KB, love it and no issues.
I hope it stays that way. If there is a major issue looming, it will likely go the way of "stain gate". Eventually, a free replacement program post AC+ period will come through when forced through legal action. Doubtful, Apple will offer voluntarily.
I hope it stays that way. If there is a major issue looming, it will likely go the way of "stain gate". Eventually, a free replacement program post AC+ period will come through when forced through legal action. Doubtful, Apple will offer voluntarily.
I feel fortunate as I'm a 2016 owner using my machine in a decently dusty environment without any issues. Good thing I have Applecare after reading this!
I'm with you on this. The keyboard should never be the problem. But Apple is constantly breaking new ground with new ideas and as with anything brand new, it will have to be proven in the field.
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Well, the problem with just going by what you hear in complaints is that those without complaint literally have no voice. They don't chime in and say all is well with them. What you tend to hear are those who have problems. I recall wanting to buy a small radio on Amazon which got horrible reviews. People outright said you couldn't create playlists or do this or that. I frankly almost didn't buy it. When I got mine, I found I could make playlists. Much of the complaints were most likely due to the user simply being a clueless moron. Now, in this case, there is no mistaking a keyboard failure. It works or it doesn't. And I do remember a long time ago I had an iBook with one problematic key. It drove me nuts. That being said it was the first and last time I ever had such a problem. So I have to wonder how likely am I to have this issue? 1/100? Less? I guess time will tell. Sure hate to hear these kinds of stories at all though.
It would be nice if they did their innovating without breaking the basics ... like typing. Also a company of their wealth and resources can test the laptops with as many testers as they can imagine. They have how many billions in cash reserves?
Yet the only explanation for not doing that are (1) user-hostile arrogance, or (2) organisational dysfunction.
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Ultimately time will tell, equally far too much traffic to be casually discounted. The bigger issue is the repair cost with Apple building a revenue stream from such matters, the current cost of replacing the keyboard is ridiculous for the average user and the downtime unacceptable for the professional.
Clearly Apple's hubris discounted such an event occurring, although it's becoming par for the course with the 15"MBP. Whatever the issue Apple simply needs to fix it asap as the MBP is fast becoming a joke and to be avoided for serious work...
Sticking and jamming keys seriously
I absolutely get that with complex systems the user is frequently the root cause, that said keyboards are pretty much binary, aside of the users subjective choice. They either work or they don't work, new MBP design raises concern and all for what to produce a thinner more attractive notebook at the expense of reliability, disappointed beyond belief "Pro my arse" Apple needs to listen, most of all Apple needs to deliver, get back to a sensible line up; Ultraportable, mainstream, Pro/Prosumer stop making everything pointlessly thinner and stop nickel & diming your most valuable customers
before it's too late Q-6
I've worked in fairly large coorps, I'd say the simple fact that Apple's latest flagship iPhone can't connect with their flagship laptops without dongles is a pretty clear sign of organization dysfunction.
Would a keyboard cover prolong the life of these rMBP keyboards?
my understanding is the culprit is dust getting underneath the keys and screwing up the sensor,
my understanding is the culprit is dust getting underneath the keys and screwing up the sensor,
Probably. Not sure why they don't just waterproof the keyboard. They can keep the form factor and keep crumbs/dust out.
Problem is that any keyboard cover is probably too thick, as the tolerances for the screen and keyboard are so tiny.
Indeed, Apple recommends not to put anything between screen and keyboard because of the very small tolerances. Personally, I just keep the thin paper film that comes bundled with the Mac to protect the keyboard and avoid getting marks on the screen when the lid is closed.
Also, I think dust is only one of the important factors at play, the other being heat: after ~1 year of daily usage (2016 15"), I can say with confidence that sticky/stuck keys and repeating keystrokes happen much less frequently when the laptop is cool. I don't have the technical means to prove that the heat is actually sufficient to warp the keyboard mechanism, but I strongly suspect that this could indeed be the case.
I'm hoping to see a new revision of the butterfly keyboard that will be less prone to failure. Apple (like any other company) will not admit to to creating a defective component or prone to failure, but if we hear that its dust/water proof or stronger then we'll know
The covers I've come across have been thick and unusable. Perhaps the technology has changed over the years since I last saw them but I'd hate to put a thick skin on such a beautiful machine.
