KGI: TrueDepth Camera Gives Apple 2.5 Year Lead Over Android Competitors

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. HiRez macrumors 603

    HiRez

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    #476
    Kuo is known for leaking a lot of Apple supply chain information, he may have his own agenda and sure, Apple may use him from time to time, but I hardly think he's their lapdog. Many of the things he leaks are not things Apple would want people knowing in advance and they can't be happy about those. He's also not always right in his leaks/assumptions.
     
  2. DNichter macrumors 68030

    DNichter

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    #477
    You can use raise to wake also. As you bring it up to use it, it should be unlocked (at least that's what it has shown so far). Seems pretty natural to me.
     
  3. cmwade77 macrumors 6502a

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    #478
    In other words you still have to press a button on the phone......how is that easier than simply pressing the touch ID to wake and unlock the phone all at once?
     
  4. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #479
    what button?
     
  5. wigby macrumors 65816

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    #480
    I was adding to the list of Apple exclusive features that hit market first. The Lightning standard is spread across 1.5 billion iOS devices. It's a standard that any developer can create accessories for. That's a standard by my definition.

    One of the things that makes Apple great is their proprietary standards. They might feel like a burden to some users or developers but they are the thing that allows Apple to deliver an entire hardware and software package. No one else can do this because no one else controls the port on their devices, for instance.
     
  6. Shanghaichica macrumors 603

    Shanghaichica

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    #481
    No Apple are the biggest leakers of all. Do you think that Home pod software just happened to leak out?
     
  7. kdarling, Oct 3, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017

    kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #482
    Actually, such work has also been going on for a long time elsewhere...

    Back in August, Qualcomm announced a new set of Image Signal Processors, along with structured light 3D parts for facial recognition and VR purpose.

    Kuo thinks Qualcomm's ultrasonic behind-display finger sensor will be coming very soon in Android phones, and the 3D facial pieces will follow in mass production in (possibly late) 2018.

    Kuo has compared the parts suppliers for both systems. Some suppliers are providing to both companies:

    face-qualcomm-pars.jpg

    Upshot: by the end of 2018 or early 2019, even non-flagship Android phones could have behind-display fingerprint and/or front-facing 3D face recognition.
     
  8. DNichter macrumors 68030

    DNichter

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    #483
    They are both one step in my eyes and probably equally as easy, but I think Face ID is less visible to the user as you likely won't even need to think about it. For me, I see that as progress. Remaining equally or better from a security standpoint and you don't have to think about it, that's great.
     
  9. BlargKing macrumors regular

    BlargKing

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    #484
    It just seems somewhat gimmicky to me. Like fingerprint sensors make sense because they usually incorporate them into a button you can use to wake your phone, so one press wakes up my phone and simultaneously unlocks it. All my experiences with facial recognition to unlock across Microsoft and Sony's implementation with their respective consoles and Intel's RealSense have been more cumbersome than useful.

    And I would hardly consider something thats completely optional and doesn't add much to the user experience putting iPhone "2.5 years ahead of Android". You could easily say Androids file system navigation puts Android 10 years ahead of iPhone because thats how long Android has had decent user accessible filesystem compared to iPhone. And I would consider the filesystem to add much more to the user experience than a facial unlock system.
     
  10. jkdsteve, Oct 3, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017

    jkdsteve macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    #485
    All to solve a problem that didn't need to exist......now if they have patents and are thinking about licensing this technology for somewhat better use cases...hmmm....billboards that recognize you anyone? :-D

    EDIT: The real story, as always with the iPhone, is Apple's Silicon continues to outpace the competition.....FaceId and AR are just applications which benefit from it, as soon as more use cases/applications present themselves, Apple product will continue to outperform the competition.
     
  11. Shanghaichica macrumors 603

    Shanghaichica

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    #486
    I find it a bit disconcerting at times. I have the face unlock set on my note 8 and the fingerprint sensor. A lot of the time the phone unlocks so quickly before I even know what’s happened. Sometimes I’d prefer to use a more deliberate method of unlocking my phone like a fingerprint sensor.

    On those occasions when face ID doesn’t work I’d like a fingerprint sensor to fall back on.
     
  12. mudflap macrumors regular

    mudflap

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    #487
    You mean the Samsung iris scanner that can be fooled with a simple photo?

    Face ID is tens of thousands of times more secure.
     
  13. xitongzou macrumors member

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    #488
    Why would they even bother to copy FaceID... they already have something better and easier to implement in TouchID / fingerprint sensor on most Android phones.
     
  14. Shanghaichica macrumors 603

    Shanghaichica

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    #489
    But it wasn’t a simple photo was it.
     
  15. browncc45 macrumors newbie

    browncc45

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    #490
    It's not anywhere near as secure as touchID or regular finger print scanners; the iris scan in the note 8 cannot be used for samsung pay at all, only used for unlocking the phone
     
  16. Shanghaichica macrumors 603

    Shanghaichica

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    #491
    The iris scan can be used for Samsung pay. You need to get your facts straight before posting. The iris scanner is more secure than fingerprint technology.
     
  17. DNichter macrumors 68030

    DNichter

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    #492
    I hear ya. At least we have options. I don’t know how the Note works but I want the X to unlock and then I can check notifications or widgets or whatever and then go to my home screen if needed.
     
  18. aevan macrumors 68000

    aevan

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    #493
    No, this is why I say "if it works as advertised". They say that if a selfie camera can see, anywhere in the capture area, a good part of your face from any angle, it will work. IF this is true, then you can hold the phone very naturally. IF this is not true, then Apple is lying - not my fault.

    On the other hand, you guys are claiming it's worse then Touch ID and that you have to hold the phone in an unnatural way quite categorically.
     
  19. Shanghaichica macrumors 603

    Shanghaichica

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    #494
    For this reason I’ll probably end up with the 8+. Just waiting to hear more about the X before deciding either way. The camera seems like a decent enough reason to upgrade from my 7+.
     
  20. D.T. macrumors 603

    D.T.

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    #495
    From what I've read, it uses both IR and a 3D contour map, so it's not just that the face is a set of 3D points at X/Y/Z, but also has a heat signature that matches your biology (that matches your facial pattern). That's probably why non-organic hacks won't work - I mean, you could get a perfect mask, with the all the proper attributes and maybe a different person's face (under the mask) - or some kind of artificial thermal source - could be made to approximate the IR component of the security mechanism[?]


    Sure, that's part of the ML, and with the data they've collected, it should know what your face looks like in various positions (I haven't seen the complete registration process, they might even have you smile to be able to calculate elasticity, etc.)


    Just an FYI, she can actually register a finger(s) with TouchID, my wife and I are cross registered on each others iPhones and both registered on the little Gs.
     
  21. aevan macrumors 68000

    aevan

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    #496
    Nah, I'm pretty straightforward and logical. And, while we don't know for sure without trying it, it is safe to assume the new method of unlocking will be superior in almost every way - unless you think Apple is lying in their interviews. Which, who knows, maybe they are.

    You, on the other hand, are almost poetic with your "tool made for touching". Let me ask you - on what grounds do you define a phone as a tool made for touching first, and as a tool made for looking second?


    Well, my answer is that - again, assuming the iPhone X works as advertised - you're just flat out wrong. Touching the fingerprint reader is part of the motion, ok, if you want it to be. But, use your imagination and just do the motion without touching the fingerprint reader. This is Face ID.

    And yes, they did mention it in an interview, the explained that as long as a significant part of your face is in the camera capture zone, it will unlock. You can see if it's part of your "natural motion" right now. Just use your front facing camera, do your "motion thing", and see if your face will pass through the camera capture zone. Unless you are really trying to keep your phone vertical, it will - even if you hold it very low.

    No, as several interviews pointed out, with Face ID you need to lift the phone and swipe to unlock. You don't wait for anything, it's that fast. The animation happens because Apple likes animations, but you don't have to wait for it.


    I'm affraid you've got it all wrong. You can spin it how you like, but black is black, white is white, Face ID is very likely more simple and more natural and you're trying to prove otherwise because you don't like change. Or like Android phones. Or just like contradicting people.

    Honestly, I have no clue, I don't want to go into your motives, but you are trying to prove that resting a thumb while picking up a phone is more natural than.... picking up a phone.

    I just wonder, when it comes out and when everyone finds out it unlocks basically without you even thinking about it, are you still going to stick with your part-of-my-natural-motion-clearly-better story, or will you admit you were wrong?
     
  22. DNichter macrumors 68030

    DNichter

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    #497
    Thanks! Yea I was aware but we just use a passcode (it's the same) on each others, no big deal.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 3, 2017 ---
    If I were you, I would just stick with the 7 plus. I don't feel like the 8 is worth the upgrade at all.
     
  23. D.T. macrumors 603

    D.T.

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    #498

    OK, cool, I should've prefaced that with "You probably know ... but in case not ..." :)
     
  24. Cesar Battistini macrumors member

    Cesar Battistini

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
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    Brazil
    #499
    http://bgr.com/2017/05/24/galaxy-s8-iris-scanner-hacked-samsung-response/

    Yeah so flawless
    --- Post Merged, Oct 3, 2017 ---
    Not better! FaceID is WAY more secure
     
  25. Michael Scrip, Oct 3, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017

    Michael Scrip macrumors 601

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    NC
    #500
    Thank you for this video. I wish more people had seen this over the last 21 days.

    FaceID looks like it works pretty well. I'm interested to use it. Though what choice do I have if I want an iPhone X

    I'm not going back to using a passcode full-time like an animal. :p
     

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