KGI: TrueDepth Camera Gives Apple 2.5 Year Lead Over Android Competitors

[cardfan]

Lots of unwashed. It's like someone turned on the mainstream faucet and left it running.

 

[symphara]

What do you do with your phone without looking at it?

Well I certainly can unlock it.

By the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked. I do it as part of the movement, when I pick it up. I don't even think about it. It works flawlessly.

Contrast this with FaceID: you have to pick up the phone, place it so it faces you, look at it, pay attention to the lock icon so it shows an open lock, then swipe up. An incredibly poor user experience, especially compared to a fingerprint reader.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I realized there isn't anything I can do with an iPhone without looking at it. So I don't see the big deal. Perhaps if I were a blind user who never has a reason to face the phone it would be more of an issue.
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Do you agree by now that Apple develops their SoC technology in house? Because it's an integral part of how and why their FaceID implementation works. And at what point in history does a purchased company's technology become a true part of the larger company's? If you're a real stickler for that for some reason, you'd apply it even more stringently to Android OEMs who year after year are still using the majority of their OS development by another company, aren't using their own SoC designs, etc.

Samsung make their own chips. They also have their own OS (Tizen) although it’s not used on their flagship devices. The also add an overlay to android.

Huwawei make their own chips too.

Yes Apple are responsible for their chips and iOS.

 

[NoNothing]

This is outstanding good news for you. Meanwhile, the rest of the world that doesn't want to spend such ridiculous amounts of money on a phone (or get trapped in a 24 months contract) just buys something cheaper. And since cheaper isn't available from Apple, you go Android.

As for all those features that are being listed as killer features here that will give Apple a serious advantage over the competition: Seriously? I don't need or even WANT any of these things, especially not biometric crap like TouchID or facial recognition -- preferably "safely" stored in an NSA-controlled, American cloud.

Those were on Planet Ubuntu this week, and they perfectly fit into this topic:

(That one I actually used as a desktop background on a video surveillance server at my last job. Good to see that others like Banksy, too...)

Good for you falling into the warped mindset with Apple, only the most expensive option is allowed. Good thing the iPhone 5SE doesn’t exist or it would blow your mind.

 

[Zwopple]

Well I certainly can unlock it.

By the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked. I do it as part of the movement, when I pick it up. I don't even think about it. It works flawlessly.

Contrast this with FaceID: you have to pick up the phone, place it so it faces you, look at it, pay attention to the lock icon so it shows an open lock, then swipe up. An incredibly poor user experience, especially compared to a fingerprint reader.

You're jumping to conclusions. I'll wait until it comes out to make the judgement that it's going to be slow or suck.

 

[Piggie]

Apple never demonstrated it, and I've not seen anyone at the launch do this yet........

Do we know if Face ID works in landscape mode?

It must do yes ?

They would never insist you have to turn the phone upright to unlock, then rotate back round again to use a app/view something.

Surprised they did not say it works in any orientation. Anyone know ?

 

[deckard666]

You lot do know that expensive things are a choice - right ?

 

[symphara]

You're jumping to conclusions. I'll wait until it comes out to make the judgement that it's going to be slow or suck.

Well for sure I watched the presentation and read the following interviews about the feature. The way I depicted it matches the way they depict it, minus marketing blurb.

There's simply no way this is better than a good fingerprint reader. It's too convoluted and requires much more user interaction.

Mind you, I'm assuming here that the feature will actually be very stable and work correctly at the same rate as a good fingerprint sensor. Based on their presentation failure, that's still in doubt.

Despite what Apple is saying, it's plan B after their failure to develop or mass-produce an in-glass fingerprint sensor.

 

[ani4ani]

do you feel your opinion is subject to change in a month or a few?
or do you feel your opinion now will be the one you have next year regarding this?

idk, you seem pretty hard set about something you've never used.. nor seen any reviews by people who have.

to me, it seems a little premature to make such a strict opinion about one of these technologies vs the other..
not to you?

My opinion is based on what I know now, what else can it be based on? Plenty of people base their opinion on what they don’t know. No one has used FaceID yet and yet their opinion is it is the greatest thing already. With Apple everything is the greatest until they do something else.

For interest, I find the current TouchID system as tiresome as hell. Maybe I am unlucky but 20% of the time it doesn’t work for me. The perversion of Apple TouchID is that you have this supposedly secure system which when it doesn’t work defaults to a pin? That is the very thing that TouchID was supposed to be superseding?

I am open minded about FaceID, personally I prefer convenience over ultimate security, if was to set my own priorities. I have never chosen a phone yet where the key question has been, “.....are my state secrets safe with this phone” If FaceID is convenient, I.e opens the phone flawlessly then it might be interesting to me, but if I end up having to put a pin in all the time, I guess I would prefer a pin from the outset, or actually the random pattern that Android use to use. I accept this is not for everyone, but that is why I have the opinion (presently) that I have.

 

[MH01]

Well I certainly can unlock it.

By the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked. I do it as part of the movement, when I pick it up. I don't even think about it. It works flawlessly.

Contrast this with FaceID: you have to pick up the phone, place it so it faces you, look at it, pay attention to the lock icon so it shows an open lock, then swipe up. An incredibly poor user experience, especially compared to a fingerprint reader.

this 100 000 x ! by the time I look at my phone for the first time, its already unlocked with the lock screen gone, ready to use.

Used the S8, having to look at the device is a poor user experience : in my opinion , and slower than TouchId

 

[samer.forums]

a gimmick no one needs in a mobile phone.

 

[aevan]

This is because TouchID (i.e. Apple's fingerprint reader) is fairly poor. It doesn't follow that all fingerprint readers are equally poor.

I have the 10.5" iPad Pro and the 15" Macbook Pro, both with TouchID, and I have similar problems - wet or overly dry skin, sensors don't work.

However my Huawei P9 is in a different class altogether compared to TouchID. The sensor is much faster and works pretty much flawlessly, in all conditions.

It's not that Android manufacturers don't use something as elaborate and slow as FaceID because they don't have the technology for it. They have better fingerprint readers.

And they'll have under-glass fingerprint readers, my guess next year, so that's going to be the future. And Apple painted itself into a corner with its crappy face recognition.

Even if you had the most reliable touch sensor that worked 100%, I would still prefer my phone just knowing me by looking at me.

Btw, I don’t understand how Huawei sensor is “much faster” considering Touch ID is instantaneous.

As for Android manufacturers having the technology - yes and no. Yes they have the tech, but they don’t have the low level access to OS. But even if they did, with the exception of Samsung, they don’t have the brand power to sell phones at the prices required to include such technology. We’ll wait a few years two before they are able to put this tech in their phones. Maybe they even surpass it at that moment, but Apple will already be working on the next thing. Just with Face ID and Touch ID, Huawei maybe cought up with Apple years after they debuted Touch ID, perhaps they even made it better - but Apple is already working on the next thing. In a few years, Huawei will have dot-projectors and true depth cameras (because everyone will want it after iPhone X) and Apple will have moved on to something even better.

The cycle continues.

Btw, explain to me why a touch sensor is better than facial recognition, assuming both work 100% reliably.

 

[Jsameds]

Well I certainly can unlock it.

By the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked. I do it as part of the movement, when I pick it up. I don't even think about it. It works flawlessly.

Contrast this with FaceID: you have to pick up the phone, place it so it faces you, look at it, pay attention to the lock icon so it shows an open lock, then swipe up. An incredibly poor user experience, especially compared to a fingerprint reader.

You're over complicating a very simple process and making TouchID seem better than it actually is. I love TouchID but it's far from the god-send you're making it out to be.

 

[EdT]

once the X is out, look for the reviewers who lean towards the anti-apple side..
if they're saying "Face ID seems to do what it's supposed to but it's a gimmick and will fade away"..

then, you'll know it works good

.

What I want is an honest evaluation. A basic 'works/doesn't work' overall judgment, followed by caveats if they are required. What I don't want is either Apple bashing or Apple fawning. Right now there apparently isn't a trustworthy functional Face recognition or Iris scan system that can't be fooled or doesn't have reliability or ease of use issues. If you disagree with that statement provide independent proof supporting your position.

It may be that Face ID will have many/most/all of these problems as well and if it does then so be it. I would like to know before I buy something this expensive though. This is supposed to be a surprise for my wife, I'd like it not to be an unpleasant one.

 

[MH01]

Even if you had the most reliable touch sensor that worked 100%, I would still prefer my phone just knowing me by looking at me.

Btw, I don’t understand how Huawei sensor is “much faster” considering Touch ID is instantaneous.

As for Android manufacturers having the technology - yes and no. Yes they have the tech, but they don’t have the low level access to OS. But even if they did, with the exception of Samsung, they don’t have the brand power to sell phones at the prices required to include such technology. We’ll wait a few years two before they are able to put this tech in their phones. Maybe they even surpass it at that moment, but Apple will already be working on the next thing. Just with Face ID and Touch ID, Huawei maybe cought up with Apple years after they debuted Touch ID, perhaps they even made it better - but Apple is already working on the next thing. In a few years, Huawei will have dot-projectors and true depth cameras (because everyone will want it after iPhone X) and Apple will have moved on to something even better.

The cycle continues.

Btw, explain to me why a touch sensor is better than facial recognition, assuming both work 100% reliably.

The most expansive individual component in an iPhone is around $30-$35 (if you factor in bulk purchase). Cost of the hardware is hardly a constraint.

 

[DNichter]

No matter how you spin it. Face ID is no where near as efficient and quick as Touch ID.

I keep hearing this, but I don't see how. If it works as it should (and I get that's an if), then you shouldn't even have to think about it. Grab your phone and swipe to unlock. You can see in the below video that he doesn't need to hold it up at a weird angle or position it in any way, just glance at it. I think this video shows it working quite well.

 

[aevan]

Well I certainly can unlock it.

By the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked. I do it as part of the movement, when I pick it up. I don't even think about it. It works flawlessly.

Contrast this with FaceID: you have to pick up the phone, place it so it faces you, look at it, pay attention to the lock icon so it shows an open lock, then swipe up. An incredibly poor user experience, especially compared to a fingerprint reader.

Touch ID: I have to pick up the phone, hold it so I can touch the button, touch the button, press the button to unlock.

Face ID: By the time I look at my phone it is already unlocked. I do it as a part of the movement, ad I pick up the phone to swipe it up, it scans me.


See, it goes both ways. You’re being negative towards a new tech while having exactly 0 experience with it.

 

[MH01]

You're over complicating a very simple process and making TouchID seem better than it actually is. I love TouchID but it's far from the god-send you're making it out to be.

Are you comparing it to Technology you have not tried yet? Could still very well be a god-send compared to TouchID

 

[EdT]

I think so too. I have S8+ but I always go back to using Pin or fingerprint scanner if it's not laid flat on the table. With iris scanner, I have to align the phone with my eyes every time which makes me look ridiculous when I'm out in the public and it doesn't work on broad day light.

Thank you. I appreciate feedback from a user pointing out the plus and minuses of a system without bashing either their product or a competitors. This is the type of evaluation I'd like to see for any product, electronic or mechanical, no matter who makes it.

 

[BlargKing]

Oh no. I'll have to wait two whole years to never use animated emojis on my Galaxy? What a tragedy. /s

 

[MH01]

Touch ID: I have to pick up the phone, hold it so I can touch the button, touch the button, press the button to unlock.

Face ID: By the time I look at my phone it is already unlocked. I do it as a part of the movement, ad I pick up the phone to swipe it up, it scans me.


See, it goes both ways. You’re being negative towards a new tech while having exactly 0 experience with it.

Can I ask you a question, have you tried say an S8 or another phone that uses iris or anything else?

Trust me the experience is not the same. I have tried both. Touchid is a natural user experience for a tool Made for .....a hand...... Faceid would be natural for a TV....

 

[DNichter]

Do you think Apple will, or should, in the future allow multiple faces to unlock the phone?

Like you and your partner for example.

Do you think it's a limitation of the technology that it can't handle more than one face, or that it's a current deliberate decision as it's yet a untested, on real life large numbers of people, so they are going to see how well or bad it works in the REAL world, fix bugs, improve things, and THEN allow for perhaps 2 or 3 faces to be allowed to unlock the device.

Right now, you will be able to face unlock your phone, and your partner will have to key in your PIN Number every time, which I'm sure most sensible people will agree is not an ideal solution.

It's like saying we are selling you a house, but you are only getting one key.
In actual reality, you will have more than one key for any lock that your trusted people will have.

What do you think Apple will do?

I'd think it's a security issue. Right now my girlfriend can't use my Touch ID so it's the same thing. She puts in a passcode if she needs to use my phone or I hand it to her when it's already unlocked. Same thing with Face ID.

 

[MacModMachine]

Oh no. I'll have to wait two whole years to never use animated emojis on my Galaxy? What a tragedy. /s

yea really , face unlock is because apple could not produce a under screen unlock , they sell it as amazing....its garb. I would rather just touch the screen.

all i know is S9 is going to have it. i guess thats what happens when you actually make you OWN screens.

 

[Gherkin]

that's about when the iPhone X should be available to buy for walk ins at an Apple Store...

 

[Jsameds]

Are you comparing it to Technology you have not tried yet? Could still very well be a god-send compared to TouchID

Everyone ITT is so thought I'd join in, but I was saying TouchID isn't perfect when people here are branding it as flawless. Don't get me wrong it works a lot of the time but there are scenarios where it falls down.

I believe FaceID will also have its issues, but just a different set of them.