Kuo: If Face ID is 'Well Received,' It's Likely 2018 iPhones Will Fully Adopt TrueDepth Camera

[Ankou_Sabat]

say what?
why is using the phone while driving with touchID as opposed to faceID any safer?
you're not the first person to say this.
it makes no sense to me.

so you unlock the phone with touchID.. ok.. now what?
that's it? or you look at the phone? you still have to look at the phone to use it..


----
[edit]
also.. faceID will be in cars..like, built into the car.. shortly.

iPhone is plugged in, you say "Hey Siri open Spotify and Play". It replies "Sorry you have to unlock iPhone to do that". So with FaceId you have to actually look at the phone full facing away from driving. With TouchId you just squeeze the home button without looking.

 

[nylon]

Nope, TouchID below display was never meant for the X. I know some like to push this narrative and position it as an Apple or Tim Cook fail, but there's simply no proof of that.

I didn't say it was an Apple or Tim Cook fail. I said Steve would have prioritized it.

 

[IJ Reilly]

There presumes clairvoyance on Apple's part on how customers will receive the feature. Even focus groups aren't that useful in determining how a feature used daily will ultimately be received, and it's doubtful Apple even held any focus groups considering their concerns about product secrecy.

Apple has never used focus groups. Steve Jobs in particular hated them and nothing about them in the company's philosophy appears to have been altered since his passing. Obviously, the lack of focus groups has greatly impeded their success.

 

[flat five]

iPhone is plugged in, you say "Hey Siri open Spotify and Play". It replies "Sorry you have to unlock iPhone to do that". So with FaceId you have to actually look at the phone full facing away from driving. With TouchId you just squeeze the home button without looking.

really? what happens if you don't tell it to open Spotify first?
just "hey Siri.. play ______"


Siri works with Apple Music..
not with Spotify?

 

[rafark]

I seriously can’t think of a situation where Face ID is more convenient then Touch ID. I can think of a dozen ways Touch ID would be, though.

I have OCD and I bite the tip of my fingers, touch id wouldn't work for me.

 

[antonis]

Nope, TouchID below display was never meant for the X. I know some like to push this narrative and position it as an Apple or Tim Cook fail, but there's simply no proof of that.

I suppose you have proof for the opposite, then, or some inside info ?
Most rumors had it that apple was giving a race to manage to implement this, and that would be the only thing that would make sense IMO, usability wise. Add to this, that this time almost every rumor about the new iphones proved to be true. I'm pretty sure they gave it a try.

 

[Ankou_Sabat]

really? what happens if you don't tell it to open Spotify first?
just "hey Siri.. play ______"


Siri works with Apple Music..
not with Spotify?

It does but it requires the phone is unlocked to open it.

really? what happens if you don't tell it to open Spotify first?
just "hey Siri.. play ______"


Siri works with Apple Music..
not with Spotify?

It requires that the phone is unlocked before interacting with unopened apps like Spotify, Pandora, Waze, etc. If you just tell it to play music/a song it's going to default to play the Apple Music app.

 

[flat five]

It does but it requires the phone is unlocked to open it.


It requires that the phone is unlocked before interacting with unopened apps like Spotify, Pandora, Waze, etc

hmm.
that's lame.

thanks for the info.

 

[macs4nw]

Wet hands and gloves. There you have it, two of them.

FaceID is just inherently faster and more secure, and there's no doubt in my mind it will be accepted and appreciated en masse once in consumer's hands. Most users are going to love its convenience, imho.

It will be fine-tuned and further refined in the next generation of devices just like TouchID was.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Pippin
20th Anniversary Mac
G4 cube
3rd Gen iPod Shuffle (the one with no control buttons)
Mobile Me
Apple Maps

1. You are kidding, right?
2. Limited edition product. Contained no new tech designed for widespread adoption.
3. Meant to be more popular than it was, but contained no new tech designed for widespread adoption.
4. How many times has Apple changed the iPod design and UI? Was each one an admission that the previous one was a terrible mistake?
5. Became iCloud.
6. I guess you must be right about this one, since Apple Maps was abandoned. Oh, wait.

 

[Solomani]

True, Kuo is one of the more astute analysts covering Apple. But that does not explain his preposterous conjecture that Apple might have released a technology to great fanfare that might not really work.

Kuo's prediction is quite reasonable. All he is saying is that Apple is likely hedging its bets. And why shouldn't they? Every company should have a backup plan in case Plan A doesn't work out right.

And no one, not even Kuo, is saying that FaceID "might not really work". Early reviews say that it does work as intended, and early reviews are favorable. What Kuo is saying is that it might not be well-received in light of TouchID's current level of customer acceptance/embracement. Most people who have used TouchID, including myself, absolutely love it and depend on it. I use it for about 5-10 Apple Pay transactions every week! You and I both know that it's rock solid.

There might be too many people who, when comparing it to the refined/mature/perfected/time-tested TouchID, will still be disappointed with the switch to FaceID. We'll see in coming weeks.

 

[miniyou64]

Face ID has zero security. It will fail exactly when it is needed the most
[doublepost=1505883321][/doublepost]

Is it though? Let's assume Apple's claims are true and that TouchID has a failure rate of 1:50,000 and that FaceID is 1:1,000,000. If this is true then adding TouchID in addition to FaceID decreases the total security of the phone 20x. You are only as secure as the weakest link. If TouchID is weaker, then adding it to the phone diminishes the added security of FaceID.

Not if both are required. You multiply those numbers

 

[fokmik]

We all know this iphone x is the edge to edge iphone 7,see total content area,see no Plus UI
So in 2018 Apple will surely adopt the same thing for the iphone plus to be edge to edge and based even from rumors,we will have 6.5" and faceId
So you don't have to be an analist to know this

 

[IJ Reilly]

Kuo's prediction is quite reasonable. All he is saying is that Apple is likely hedging its bets. And why shouldn't they? Every company should have a backup plan in case Plan A doesn't work out right.

And no one, not even Kuo, is saying that FaceID "might not really work". Early reviews say that it does work as intended, and early reviews are favorable. What Kuo is saying is that it might not be well-received in light of TouchID's current level of customer acceptance/embracement. Most people who have used TouchID, including myself, absolutely love it and depend on it. I use it for about 5-10 Apple Pay transactions every week! You and I both know that it's rock solid.

There might be too many people who, when comparing it to the refined/mature/perfected/time-tested TouchID, will still be disappointed with the switch to FaceID. We'll see in coming weeks.

If FaceID isn't accepted it will only be because it doesn't work as advertised. In that case, Plan B is a catastrophe. This is a highly touted feature on their flagship product. It is mission critical. Lack of acceptance is not an option.

TouchID had the same level of customer acceptance when it was introduced as FaceID has now. Zero. As if now, TouchID has been "time tested" for all of four years. Not exactly a lifetime. In fact I remember well the stories at the time it was introduced about how it could be fooled with finger print casts. It wasn't really a serious issue, but that didn't stop plenty of people theorizing about how it could be and maybe should not be trusted.

I don't find TouchID to be rock solid. In fact I find it to be fiddly, and often unresponsive. If I'm not real careful with it, I end up at the home screen or looking at a Siri prompt. It's that perfect!

I think Apple could improve on that experience. Fortunately, they think so too.

 

[tuckerjj]

Surely full adoption will come in 2019 when the X becomes the standard model, not 2018 when (presumeably) the iPhone 9 is released. I mean that's a pretty big hint, that Apple called it the iPhone “10” and not the iPhone 9.

 

[kstotlani]

Meanwhile, in the short term, Apple is very-likely considering how-best to Drop Prices of the iPhone 8 and 8 Plus, BEFORE it becomes common knowledge to ALL that Sept (& eventually also Oct) is a TOTAL catastrophe:

iPhone 8: $699 -> $599

iPhone 8+: $799 -> $699

Apple clearly over-played their hand this year ... I suspect even Kuo will probably figure that out in a few weeks.

Serious question - has Apple ever dropped prices of their iPhone in the current year. I am always amazed how they keep selling their phones to people not in the know till just a day before launch day with no price drop. Samsung and others drop prices every quarter after launch.

 

[anoobis]

Pippin
20th Anniversary Mac
G4 cube
3rd Gen iPod Shuffle (the one with no control buttons)
Mobile Me
Apple Maps

Apple have a long history of releasing products that they though would be well received by the public and weren't - both hardware and software. Some of their biggest flops (Pippin and 20th Anniv. Mac) failed in part because of their high prices.

Regardless of anyone's initial impressions of FaceID at this stage, it is erroneous to suggest that Apple never goes backward.

In the case of the 3rd gen iPod shuffle, they eliminated all physical playback controls on the device and then immediately re-introduced them on all subsequent versions. Apple has a history of adopting a new user interface and abandoning it within a generation because it was not well received by the public.

I would add Touch Bar on the Macbook Pro.
[doublepost=1505884735][/doublepost]

say what?
why is using the phone while driving with touchID as opposed to faceID any safer?
you're not the first person to say this.
it makes no sense to me.

so you unlock the phone with touchID.. ok.. now what?
that's it? or you look at the phone? you still have to look at the phone to use it..


----
[edit]
also.. faceID will be in cars..like, built into the car.. shortly.

You can use Siri without looking at your phone with Touch ID.

 

[fokmik]

Surely full adoption will come in 2019 when the X becomes the standard model, not 2018 when (presumeably) the iPhone 9 is released. I mean that's a pretty big hint, that Apple called it the iPhone “10” and not the iPhone 9.

the X will become the normal one next year
We will have iPhone 5.8" edge to edge and iPhone plus 6.5" edge to edge and probably iPhone SE

 

[flat five]

[

You can use Siri without looking at your phone with Touch ID.

you can use Siri without looking at your phone with FaceID too.


i'm going to go ahead and assume the people who keep saying this, don't use Siri.
i personally don't use it too often but when i do, the phone is locked.

---
add--
unless you're talking about using Siri with certain music apps that aren't AppleMusic..
apparently, in those situations, the phone does need to be unlocked prior to being able to use voice interaction.

 

[Constable Odo]

Apple is going back to Touch ID as soon as automobile drivers go back to riding horses and the airlines go back to prop-driven commercial passenger planes. Jeez. I guess it's a waste of time for Apple to try to move forward if users only want to keep using what they have. That being said, I think Touch ID is absolutely fine, but I have an open mind on moving forward to something new if it's being offered and works just as well.

 

[anoobis]

[
you can use Siri without looking at your phone with FaceID too.


i'm going to go ahead and assume the people who keep saying this, don't use Siri.
i personally don't use it too often but when i do, the phone is locked.

---
add--
unless you're talking about using Siri with certain music apps that aren't AppleMusic..
apparently, in those situations, the phone does need to be unlocked prior to being able to use voice interaction.

Try telling Siri to open something like Google Maps, or Messages when your phone is locked...smh

 

[roeiz]

Surely full adoption will come in 2019 when the X becomes the standard model, not 2018 when (presumeably) the iPhone 9 is released. I mean that's a pretty big hint, that Apple called it the iPhone “10” and not the iPhone 9.

Not sure. It’s called 10 for the anniversary.
But i suspect like you that there is still some logic for the remaining 9. otoh they may indeed cancel the old design next time for good.

 

[Jimrod]

I expect a solid reception. This isn't a gimmick - the amount of modeling and security built into face ID is more than any previous phone biometric system.

Most people criticizing it have yet to use it themselves. They're relying on media members paid not for the truth but for clicks on their website.

I don't think many are worried about security, we've had security easily accessible since TouchID and no-one was asking for more.

It's impracticality, having to stare at the phone and swipe rather than, for example, opening phone in your pocket then taking a glance at it in a meeting that is concerning people. It seems you'll have to obviously pick up and stare at your phone to open it, right now my iPhone SE is on my desk where is spends about 50% of its time, I can open it, glance and carry on working/forumming, no problem. With FaceID I'll have to move over so the camera can see me - it's not a great hardship but Apple has made something less convenient rather than more so, purely because they couldn't solve the TouchID behind the screen problem of their own making. That's why people are not fully convinced.

 

[flat five]

That being said, I think Touch ID is absolutely fine

i think it's awesome.
that said, i personally wouldn't use 'absolutely fine' as a descriptor.

up till now, touchID has been in the worst position for usage out of all possible positions..
it's usable.. not difficult..
but still, the home button couldn't be located in a worse place on the phone.

(granted-- the phones are shaped wrong anyway (meaning, all the phones.. not just Apple) .. they look great..
a true 'ergonomically correct' phone would likely look incredibly goofy.. just like a lot of ergonomic based design does.
but hopefully soon, a designer can come up with a phone that's both beautiful and optimized for hand held usage..

..or maybe, we just ride out the current designs until phones evolve past hand held usage in general.

 

[ani4ani]

They just added it to MacBooks which is confusing

From a confused design team who do their best to confuse us. Courageous to leave out a headphone jack because the world is moving on, but then installed on every new product since, e.g. iPad Pro etc.

FaceID the latest and greatest biometric security system which seems now for one reason or another, not to take up too much valuable space in a phone (though we all know it obviously does!) and yet not installed in the latest MacBooks?

Anyone would think they’re making this up as they go along.